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Sorry to hear you're struggling bro, My one and only local ethno-bro just left town recently and that's been a major bummer. I love going to meets though, even if it's a bit of a drive to get to them. I do have a few local gardening friends that make life a lot more enjoyable.

 

As for covid, I genuinely felt a lot better once I was fully vaccinated, like I was part of the solution rather than the problem etc. so I would encourage anyone to get vaccinated. 

 

It's funny how previously people believed in vaccinations enough to literally wipe some things off the face of the planet, but now with all this social media power in the hands of the reclessly mis-informed, we're seeing (for the first time) vaccination rates dropping so low in some areas that a virus is wreaking havoc.

 

My only humble but genuine advice is to steer clear of the anti-vax hysteria going around and just stick with the science. Our medical science is the best it's ever been in the history of humanity and there is no grand conspiracy to inject us all with microchips or take away our liberties, or whatever the latest BS is.

 

Murdoch's business model is literally to divide and conquer. He's not interested in journalism, he's a power-broker and that's it. So yeah I agree we need to unite and look out for eachother. My personal approach has been to take a stand against misinformation and advocate for the science as much as possible, and I do get a sense of satisfaction in seeing my friends and family staying safe and all of us getting safely through all this.

 

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Morning Halcyon,

I appreciate the significant risk being posed by this problem; however, I don’t see any value in the political discussion being conducted.  These idiots were telling us not to wear masks for how long? Their credibility has slipped well beyond repair and the only way to put a pause on this misinformation machine is convincing people to turn it off.

 

Morning Zedo,

Don’t let fear be the emotion you frame your reality through. Now is the time to embrace love and positivity. Things are likely going to get worse before they get better, so it’s important we don’t let fear spiral out of control and stay strong for our loved ones who surround us. Try not to stress about not knowing what to do, and no light at the end of the tunnel being in site. Life’s not about things going the way you want them to, it’s an experience that you should try and make the most of regardless of your situation, and making the most of your situation becomes extremely difficult if you waste your time listening to this polarising political debate that’s achieving nothing more than division between people who didn’t even dedicate there education to understanding scientific tools that could contribute to solving this crisis.

 

If either of you 2 are keen on some Spring time gifts for the garden, PM me your postal details and ill do my best to put a smile on your face :) 

Springs vibes are just around the corner

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Hey Change - you know how much I love you mate but I think you might be oversimplifying things a bit here. 

 

I don't think HD and I are so much discussing the politics of the situation.  Rather, we are against the blatant misinformation being bandied about - it's downright dangerous.  There are still way too many people thinking the vaccines are injecting Bill Gates' microchips - I shit you not - old(er) people that should know better.  They have totally discarded logical thought (like why do we need two shots? was the microchips missing components in the first shot? doh) and jump on any human mistake (like mask wearing or slips of the tongue) as proof that its all a scam.  Others think its 5G. FFS.  HD and I just want to dispel these myths and encourage vaccination - it will save lives and get us back to (the new) normal quicker.

 

And Zedo - it's super tough out there at the moment.  You are not alone - my single mates are all suffering big time - I do what I can to help but its not enough.  Try and hang in there and, when its possible, get along to one of the SAB meets in your area.  The people on this forum are uniquely special.  Post more here - pics and random thoughts.  Try and stay busy.  It is a shitty time there is no doubt but I have seen this pandemic bring out the best in people (and sadly, the worst as well).

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Sending you all the good vibes I can muster Zedo. 

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Thanks all. Times are tough. And I acknowledge the fact we have to make the most of what we have with us - literally all yesterday my body felt horrid. Anyone know much about Schuman resonance? Apartly a lot of people of other chat groups im in noticed yesterday they felt horrid too. 

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I doubt anything much will come of this but at least it's a step in the right direction. 

 

Sky News Australia to face Senate inquiry after week-long YouTube suspension

 

Sky News Australia will face a Senate inquiry next week after the broadcaster was suspended for seven days for posting numerous videos which violated YouTube’s Covid medical misinformation policies.

The hearing comes as former prime minister Kevin Rudd calls on the Australian media regulator to take a tougher line on the broadcasting of contentious Sky News material on subscription TV and free-to-air television in regional areas.

 

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/06/sky-news-australia-to-face-senate-inquiry-after-week-long-youtube-suspension

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Vaxx gang represent.

Disapointed im not magnetic or a 5G signal amplifier. 

 

Mental health epidemic is concerning me more but.... 

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Posted (edited)

Could someone please post up the best available science papers researching vaccine efficacy against delta.

 

Every time I trace the statistics being quoted in the media, back to the papers they are referencing, I come to find the selection criteria for the people in the study is they showed up to the hospital unwell and I can’t understand why more people aren’t talking about how this makes the statistic representative of people who need hospital treatment, not the general population.

 

“This is a retrospective study of individuals who underwent SARS-CoV-2 polymerase chain reaction (PCR) testing at the Mayo Clinic and hospitals affiliated with the Mayo Clinic Health System” https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full-text

 

Anyone who is thinking critically and assessing this data can see that the reason why we are talking about “reducing hospitalization time” instead of “preventing infection” is because the studies are looking at how long people are infected for, not if the vaccine prevents infection. Therefore, why are we even talking about vaccination targets to allow for normality to return. Has anyone read the Doherty report, the assumptions this report are operating on is wild and I’m not entirely certain if our government officials have the ability to scrutinize the validity of this report.

 

 

"If you define its efficacy against preventing people getting sick enough to go to hospital, it is as effective as any of the other vaccines," Professor Kelleher said. 

 

We dont need to change definitons, we need to invest in research and development 

Then if the research is interpreted by politicans who dont understand it, progress will be slow.

 

https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/efficacy

1. the ability of a drug to achieve the desired effect.

2. the degree to which an intervention accomplishes the desired or projected outcomes.

Edited by Change
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If know ones interested in an intelligent discussion about which vaccines are more effective based on evidence and clinical data, then I’ll move the discussion back to the most logical and pertinent point, we need a treatment that saves lives, if saving lives and preventing the healthcare system from being overloaded is your major concern, then we have the same goals and should be able to debate this issue in a constructive manner rather than wishing death upon those who oppose your point of view. People really keep forgetting we are all on the same Team, the division this pandemic is causing is extremely concerning, considering we should all want the best outcome for humanity and therefore, be able to put aside our differences to work constructively together towards the common goal of preventing pain and suffering for fellow humans.

 

Perhaps if we could work together as a species, 9 million people wouldn’t die from starvation per year. Perhaps if we stopped debating politics, and seeing other humans as enemies, our hearts might open to the fact that every death is a tragedy no matter which political team they were from.  Politics has turned some people, into heartless, unsympathetic cold humans, and it hasn’t done much good for anyone, so what’s the point of continuing this nonsense. Debating this issue through a political lens, is about as constructive and intelligent as denying the existence of the virus because you can’t see it with your eyes. It’s time to transcend the stupidity of the current status quo and stop living in a world where its ok that 9 million people are dying from a lack of food while we are living in a wealthy wasteful society that’s doing very little about it.

 

https://www.jpost.com/health-science/covid-90-percent-of-patients-treated-with-new-israeli-drug-discharged-in-5-days-675961?fbclid=IwAR3TYL-ektsjSC3X2nQuREOvP9ZZ4eYo7kIiich9BCyrYXBu_PiPdio9OmQ

 

https://forbetterscience.com/2021/02/08/operation-cytokine-storm/

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Posted (edited)

Awesome post. wish I had something intelligent to say but it's 2am.  I understand your sentiment and frustrations completely. Obviously my view is that the problem lies with disinformation so If everyone could just turn off their TVs and stop buying into this whole political shyt-show that would be awesome. Which isn't gonna happen right, so yeah, we need our governments to toughen up on mis-information, because self-regulation in the media and social media is weak as piss like always... anyway that's just my humbe 2 cents for now. 

Edited by Halcyon Daze

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Posted (edited)

Change happens just as its suppose too, and I wouldn’t want it any other way. Love ya’s all, feels abit like 1984

Edited by Change
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i don't think all boomers are 'bad' folk bro, you're probably just matuing - nice place to be. Peace be within your heart

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On 11/07/2021 at 4:01 AM, Torsten said:


Just because you don't know it doesn't mean it wasn't researched. The results have been available since july last year.

 

So it was researched. It doesn't sound like they found much. Perhaps they could research some more.

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Posted (edited)

Actually that's meant to be "Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission" etc. And Rogan's cherry-picked a single line from a non-covid paper about chickens from 2015. Which is totally fine, he has the right to express his take/ opinion to another anti-vaxxer,  but it's hardly case closed or anything. 

 

So here's my take on the paper...

 

For a start, that paper wasn't trying to establish whether or not variants occur in the vaccinated (it's a no-brainer, afterall) but it aims to start exploring the realm of what might be possible. Indeed, it says "There is (already) a theoretical expectation that this happens" ,   and  "The future challenge is to identify whether there are other types of vaccines used in animals and humans that might also generate these evolutionary risks". It's a shame Rogan didn't highlight these stipulations, but instead spin the paper as proof of his opinion, (or the opinion of whoever said it to him to begin with), because it doesn't seem like he read the paper himself. Just out of curiosity, did you, because playing 'chinese wispers' is not exactly a great source of scientific data.

 

There's no dispute over variants appearing in people, whether they are vaccinated or not. But there *would* still  be a lower rate of variants coming out of vaccinated people, based on the lower rate of infection to begin with, which seems to be the general consensus anyway (from what I've picked up).

 

Covid will probably end up being like the flu IMO, regardless of vaccinations. It's just a matter of how many people want to be sacrificed unnecessarily for the same eventual outcome as it develops over the years or decades. The paper itself says that natural selection helps to stop potent variants from spreading, but it fails to take environmental factors into account. Natural selection worked well in a diverse, partitioned world, but we are a monoculture now, with very different dynamics and severe consequences of just letting a pathogen run rampant.  

 

Is that how we would really want to solve this issue? To randomly kill off millions of people as our way of 'living' with the virus. Remember, it's no longer just the elderly at risk, and Delta didn't emerge from the vaccinated, but the **unvaccinated**. 

 

There's a big debate over reducing global over-population, but there's better ways of doing it than dying a wretched painful disease-ridden death. Besides, if someone is such a champion for reducing over-population then they should put their money where their mouth is and get a vasectomy before having any kids, but I'm sure these proponents are happy for someone else's family to die of covid, who cares if it doesn't happen to them etc..   ...and then it DOES happen to them anyway SMH.

 

It seems to me like anti-vaxxers are often arriving at their final solution of just letting a certain percentage of people die, and hope everything goes back to normal.  But that won't happen, that's merely an untested hypothetical. Variants will still appear, new cohorts will die, people and the economy will suffer severely. And half-assed vaccination campaigns won't do much either, just look at Israel, they went in hard and fast, with incredible results, and threw it all away by opening up too early.

 

The best way to reduce variants (AND keep people and the economy safe) still appears to be strong vaccination programs. But that doesn't seem possible now that the fear/misinformation genie is out of the bottle.

 

Our only hope now IMO is to stay one step ahead of the misinformed, and take harder measures to prevent the mindless sheep from killing many millions of happy families, as well as their own. But that's highly unlikely now that many of our most powerful leaders like Scomo and Gladys, Trump-ism, are raising the white flag and kneeling for the slaughter.

 

Prepare for the covid-appocalypse, people! When the shyt hits the fan, you'll be waiting a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong  time for a jab in a queue full of sick, coughing, zombies. Just look at pretty every other country who threw in the towel too early, that's only just around the corner. Don't be afraid, but also don't be a total fool during a serious pandemic. For the love of all that's good, use your f** brain. Time is close now.

Edited by Halcyon Daze
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@Halcyon Daze Well said mate!

 

@Mycot viruses aren't intelligent, so vaccines can't increase variants, more potent or otherwise. Variants arise from mutations which are entirely random events. If there were only ten cases of covid in the world a more contagious or virulent mutation could occur, same as if there are millions of cases a more contagious or virulent variant could occur. Obviously the more cases there are, the higher the probability, purely by more numbers mean opportunity for a mutation to occur. Viruses don't react to counter the effect of vaccines, it's all a random occurance. And additionally, many mutations can have no effect on contagiousness or virulence, and can also reduce it.

 

Every single day there are thousands of mutations occuring in the cells of your body, but the vast majority are silent and have no effect at all. That's just the nature of life, but fortunately there is a lot of redundancy in genetics, and many mutations often result in identical proteins being produced despite the mutation. There's 64 codons (eg TTA, CGC, CAC etc) coding for 20 amino acids. Some amino acids have 4 different codons all resulting in the same thing.  So a mutation in one of those letters can still result in the same amino acid, and hence the same protein. And even if it does result in a different protein, they are often ineffective and result in no change to normal function. It's one of the beautiful things about life. There are so many redundancies in all organisms that all sorts of things can go wrong but still have absolutely no effect.

 

If anything, if vaccines even slightly reduce transmission, then purely by lower case numbers alone the statistical chance of mutations occuring is reduced.

 

Mutations are probablistic, so hypothetically if there's a 1% mutation rate and 100 cases then you might get 1 mutation that may well be less or more infectious, but if you have 1 million cases, you might have 10 000 mutations, most of which might be insignificant, but by probability alone, there's a much greater chance that at least one of those might be a worse strain.

 

So it's all probabilities, viruses aren't intelligent and don't mutate due to someone getting vaccinated, taking some form of treatment or anything else along those lines.

 

BTW l must admit I can't handle watching even 30 seconds of Joe Rogan, let alone the whole video, so I've no idea what he was saying, I'm just going on your sentence above the YouTube link and HDs reply. So I hope I didn't just type a whole lot of irrelevant and incoherent ramblings haha

 

Anyway, all the best Mycot, were all allowed to have opinions and it makes for a good conversation to have differing ones expressed here 

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7 hours ago, Cubism said:

 

Anyway, all the best Mycot, were all allowed to have opinions and it makes for a good conversation to have differing ones expressed here 

 

Loving that sentiment mate :wink:

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Thanks for the sentiment cubism and RC,  I appreciate it.

 

I just lost a lengthy post of reply, after hitting 'Submit Reply.  Fuck it.

 

Wish all Corroboree members the best (Tripsis too Haha) may we all, both pro-vaxers and anti-vaxers get through all this OK.

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On 26/08/2021 at 12:46 PM, Mycot said:

Vaccines Can Lead To More Potent Viruses

 

 

History tells us that biological components of a vaccine will escape into the wild and mutate. Polio, a case in point. Chalk it up to the law of unintended consequences. 

 

The biosphere is telling us something of the toxicity of human economic and ideological systems; planetary bio-feedback we ignore at our peril. Pro-vax wishful thinking to the rescue? Maybe, but not without significant casualties in the process. Political freedoms, for one. 

 

On the plus side, technological fixes are good for economic growth, at least in the short term -- I dread to think of the intergenerational debt being foisted on us in the name of public health. 

 

Pfizer et al., meanwhile, are laughing all the way to the bank, devoid of any responsibility for adverse outcomes. If that's the "new normal" then count me out. 

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2 hours ago, fyzygy said:

 

 Political freedoms, for one. 

 

Speaking of freedoms, I believe there are to be to be major protests across Australia coming Tuesday Aug 31 for those that are interested.

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i haven't read this topic for a while, but want' to share that:

 as an over 60, i got the az and as a result, i got headaches from it, since 5 weeks, another side effect is tinitis.

now, i have to face the 2nd shot, and i am scared it could make my head ache worse, plus the "ringing" in my ears...

 

i want people to get the jab, but the first trials were done, with a very subjective manor!

i was told no body experienced tinitis, after 25.000 trials.

 

but now, suddenly a lot of people do.

 

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19 hours ago, withdrawl clinic said:

i haven't read this topic for a while, but want' to share that:

 as an over 60, i got the az and as a result, i got headaches from it, since 5 weeks, another side effect is tinitis.

now, i have to face the 2nd shot, and i am scared it could make my head ache worse, plus the "ringing" in my ears...

 

i want people to get the jab, but the first trials were done, with a very subjective manor!

i was told no body experienced tinitis, after 25.000 trials.

 

but now, suddenly a lot of people do.

 

Sorry to hear that mate. Supposedly the second shot has less side effects for AstraZeneca (Whereas the opposite is true for Pfizer)

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Pro-vax! 

 

Anti-vax!

 

I would like to suggest there is a third group to which I belong: Nutri-vax. 

 

See, as a parent, I had to make a call and set an example for my children and it almost feels like there are/were only two options:

1. The world is a fucked up place run by mysterious forces hell-bent on wiping out the common man through a nefarious plot that revolves around the coronavirus and vaccines.  Trust no-one children and live your lives in fear!

or

2. The world is a fucked up place but most people are really just trying to do the right thing.  Trust most people but, in particular, scientists over politicians (and it's mostly scientists calling the shots at the moment because politicians need someone to blame).

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On 12/09/2021 at 3:15 PM, withdrawl clinic said:

as an over 60, i got the az and as a result, i got headaches from it, since 5 weeks, another side effect is tinitis.

now, i have to face the 2nd shot, and i am scared it could make my head ache worse, plus the "ringing" in my ears...

 

i want people to get the jab, but the first trials were done, with a very subjective manor!

i was told no body experienced tinitis, after 25.000 trials.

 

but now, suddenly a lot of people do.

 

I'm sorry to hear about the headaches and tinnitus. Hopefully they will pass. Unfortunately those symptoms are so general they could be just as easily attributed to other proximate causes, the rollout of 5G infrastructure including near-orbit satellites, for example.

I've lived with chronic tinnitus for almost 20 years. Surprisingly, one adapts. 

My question would be, how do your symptoms work their way into the established scientific data on vaccination safety? Since this is an ongoing biomedical experiment (on a planetary scale), follow-up data should be pursued as a matter of urgency. Unless, of course, this is all just a box-ticking exercise for corporate benefit, in which case ... we all lose, vaccinated or not. 

 

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