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Posted (edited)

are we allowed to discuss this topic?

 

many people are smarter than me here, so i ask which jab is the safest if you have a family record of blood clots and are 60 years of age.

when i called the number to register for my jab, the phone operator hung up on me.

 

i know of a case where a young person in my area got pfizer bio tek instead of astra.

but my research could not copy this persons achivement.

rumours are pfizer will become available, in given time.

please help.

 

you have to understand, statistics even from the goverment provided (1 dead in 200 000)would mean 100 australiens will die from clots.

now go and don't belive the goverments statistics (and i don't) than many more will die.

 

the goverment doesn't tell us what we need to do, if you have a family history of blood clots.

edit;

i had surgery 14 days ago, stapled heamorocopy (sorry i;m slightly dyslexic) were given fentanil, than endo. could not sleep for 8 day's endo kept me awake, and none of the medical support i recived believed me. please guys, never abuse those pain killers. today first day with little pain, stopped endo 5 days ago or so. it was my friend who helped me miracously and took my fear.

on the 16 somebody vandalised my car....

 

Edited by withdrawl clinic

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Topic is fine as long as it doesn't spread misinformation. If anyone's advice diverges from the official line then they must reference this properly (no, youtube videos are not references).

Pfizer is running out and unless you're in 1a or 1b you won't be getting it until the new batch arrives late in the year. if you are 1a/b then you would need to go to a vaccination hub to get Pfizer, as they don't do that one in clinics. If you're not high risk and are worried about the AZ then you can just wait. If you're in a location and situation where social distancing is easy then doing that for another 6 months is easy.

You need to talk to your GP (or better specialist) about your clots. Most clotting disorders are not caused by the same mechanism as AZ so whether your get them or not is likely irrelevant. Are you on heparin or have you ever had heparin? If so (and you didn't get a clotting event from the heparin) then you also won't get it from AZ. The clotting mechanism is the same.

Yes, you'd expect about 50-100 deaths from AZ if every single aussie gets AZ. That's less than even a small localised covid outbreak. But not everyone will get vaccinated, nor will all get AZ, so the number is dramatically smaller. Getting on a plane to europe has a far greater clotting risk than AZ and most people don't give that a second thought.

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also, the phone operator is not allowed to advise on vaccine differences. Only a doctor can do that. Preferably one that knows about your conditions.

I have decided that because Byron is a tourist destination from so many potential outbreak areas and there is no social distancing here that the best thing for my situation is to get whatever i can get as quickly as possible. For over 50s Pfizer is not easy to get. I was kinda keen on AZ for a number of reasons anyway so suits me fine.

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I'm not too fussed, either way. I know there's a risk but I take a risk every time I drive or drink a Monster energy drink.  I honestly believe the greater risk to health is to not be vaccinated, but that's just the opinion that I've personally arrived at. I don't care too much what others do. Each to their own, I guess.

 

I am a bit appalled by those who try to make the pandemic out to be one big joke just because there's a low  death rate of like 1% or whatever. Just look at the countries where the shyyt's hit the fan and ask yourself 'is that what we want for our country (or any other country).

 

Be careful listening to random idiots with some political agenda, they won't be there to help you if your family is ripped apart by this virus.

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Posted (edited)

Long rant follows- apologies WC

 

I'm over 50 and hanging out for Pfizer- or more data on long-haul responses to AZ

I'm not vaccine hesitant- I'm fussy for good reasons

Complex reasons. Last March 2020 I had a bit of a flu in regional QLD- they weren't testing for COVID unless you were directly linked to the Ruby Princess, but there were a couple of small outbreaks in the region. But there were a few other influenza strains round, and I was going to the gym rather a lot-- isolating and heading out only at times the workout areas weren't crowded ( this was pre- lockdown but I was being cautious ).

Was pretty fit, BMI 24 and from memory whatever flu I had wasn't too bad. Week's bed rest and I threw everything I had at getting better as the main worry was needing the ER if there was a local COVID outbreak

Coupla weeks after, serious nerve issues began. Started with what appeared to be ear infection, spread to neck/ arms/ hands nerve burning and serious inflammation. Lost the use of my hands most days, had to attempt what passed for sleep sitting up for 3 months- the pain was incredible. Brain fog. Lost hearing in one ear. Occasional loss of vision. No heart or lung issues thank fuck. Massively reduced working hours on casual contract, but my lovely bosses kept me on while I struggled

Regional QLD health is shit. Absolute shit. My employers had warned me when I signed on, but nothing prepares you for the rank level of incompetence at the time you need it. The services are there, but the staff I was interfacing with at GP and ER level were beyond hopeless ( specialists were great- when you could get them ). It took six months to get the ear infection component recognised and dealt with. I couldn't even get an antibody test for COVID after repeated requests

Took to treating the whole thing by symptom- have been restricting diet, keeping up exercise, steroids, pilates, LDN, prebiotics and pregnenolone and in the last 5 months I've slowly been seeing improvement

It took six months of hard work to be able to use forceps and a scalpel for a couple of hours a day. It's taken me 14 months to even get to the point of doing 10 min gardening a day. And I am so grateful for that ten minutes.

 

Healing is a full time job.

 

Given that flu-like viruses can occasionally cause a range and varying severity of these post-viral symptoms, at +12 months I can't attribute the post-viral nerve and inflammation issues to COVID. Officially the diagnosis is post-viral inflammation, more specialist appointments pending.

Preliminary data on the various long haul COVID groups I'm on is showing a 40:40:20 spread for symptom change post Pfizer- 40% experience good reduction in symptoms post vaccine, 40% have no change in symptoms and 20% symptoms increase. The data is *very* preliminary, largely anecdotal, and there's not much info on post AZ responses yet. And the majority of the people reporting anecdotally do not have exclusive nerve damage- reported post-viral responses were largely pulmonary and heart in the early days and the neural/nerve reports are becoming more frequent only now

Dunno if I even had COVID.

But if I did, and whatever the virus was I can live with the risks of an 80% neutral/positive outcome from the Pfizer vax, wait for data on AZ responses, and/or hang out for more data generally. No way would I risk these symptoms worsening without significant assessment of my options

Being in a zero- COVID area, and having the privilege of being able to isolate easily, there is at this point no rush for me to get the vaccine- yet.

Any of the SARS type virii can cause these post viral symptoms and COVID especially is resulting in a really high rate of life-limiting multi-system long-haul damage. The spread of COVID, as a possibly new and a novel coronavirus, is going to have significant health and economic impacts on human health for decades

If anyone tells you COVID isn't a thing, punch them in the mouth.



 

Edited by Darklight
Spacing went weird, fixed now I hope
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Big Pharma is laughing all the way to the bank.

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If I could get the Pfizer vaccine tomorrow I would.  The AZ vaccine concerns me with the clotting issue and it's old technology.  On the plus side, at least we're getting reporting of the issues and it isn't all being swept under the carpet.  I guess I can hang out until later this year - I feel I've come this far.

 

'Big pharma' is a little like taxes I guess - a somewhat necessary evil.  But I think it's important to realise that it isn't some kind of all-devouring beast but is made up of scientists, researchers and health professionals that i'm certain are not simply 'in it for the money'.

 

 

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What would greatly help with the AZ clotting concerns is a little more info about the outcome of patients that suffered the problem.  Presumably most made a recovery...?

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16 minutes ago, SayN said:

What would greatly help with the AZ clotting concerns is a little more info about the outcome of patients that suffered the problem.  Presumably most made a recovery...?

 

 

I'd also like to see a greater breakdown on co-morbidities. Age, obesity, smoking, other chronic diseases etc

 

But I guess we won't see that data from a significant sample size for a while

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Posted (edited)

slight side track, but responding to dl, flu input.

incog, once made me aware, of as followes.

we don't get the flu because we had mononucleosis in our youth.

 

would be nice to research if this "permantent increased immune responce" could maby help as well with covid.

 

edit:

personal sharing ( feel privileged to have tort, dl and hd to reply)

i had a most wonderfull day today, i use alco only occasional NOW, and haven't smoked pot in 18 months.:wub::lol::rolleyes:

 

late edit so u know and proly i gave him a link be 4

arthur brown, i know him sice i was achild pls watch:

The Crazy World of Arthur Brown - Fire (Live in Munich - 25. Februar 2016) - YouTube

Edited by withdrawl clinic
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One thing that changed the game re AZ is that last week researchers found a drug that cures the clotting disorder if treated early enough. So the important thing now is to monitor for symptoms post vax and to seek competent medical attention immediately if clotting seems likely. It's highly preliminary and there is no data on whether it will cure everyone, but point is that it's not the dead end it was last month.

I am also on 3 life saving meds that have a higher death rate than AZ and I didn't think twice about using them so it would be silly if i suddenly applied a different standard to the vax.

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3 hours ago, Torsten said:

it would be silly if i suddenly applied a different standard to the vax.

Unlike most medications, COVID vaccinations have been developed and deployed under "emergency" conditions -- including suspension of standard safety-testing protocols and a Commonwealth waiver of manufacturer liability for adverse outcomes. The precautionary onus therefore rests wholly with the end user. 

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2 hours ago, fyzygy said:

Unlike most medications, COVID vaccinations have been developed and deployed under "emergency" conditions -- including suspension of standard safety-testing protocols and a Commonwealth waiver of manufacturer liability for adverse outcomes. The precautionary onus therefore rests wholly with the end user. 

You make it sound like any old vaccine could be used with no regard to safety at all but that's not quite the reality:

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/emergency-use-authorization-vaccines-explained

 

We are very lucky in Australia, but if you've seen what's happening in places like India, then the word "emergency" seems wholly appropriate.

 

I have (had :( ) a very good friend that has now disappeared almost completely down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories and anti-vax.  The hypocrisy is that this friend never hesitates in putting large quantities of street 'cocaine' and 'mdma' into his system, yet is highly suspicious and damning of the vaccines and modern medicine in general.  It's very sad.

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Posted (edited)
On 23/05/2021 at 4:41 PM, withdrawl clinic said:

 

personal sharing ( feel privileged to have tort, dl and hd to reply)

i had a most wonderfull day today, i use alco only occasional NOW, and haven't smoked pot in 18 months.:wub::lol::rolleyes:

 

 

LOL, Dude, I feel privileged to be growing your famous special strain of B).

 

Awesome that you have gained control of those vices.  I always found it helpful to realise I had the power to choose WHEN I wanted to engage in such activities, which is only very rarely when I'm on an awesome camping trip etc. So it's not like I'm saying no for ever, I can still say yes if the rare occasion comes along.

 

As for Covid, choices matter too. Global pandemics are nothing new, but this is the first time we really have the science to save millions of lives. All we need to do is utilize the power of our incredible scientific capabilities and reject the sort of Neanderthal mentality that makes some people so irate to have to even don a simple mask, or follow rather mild community precautions.

 

The miracle of modern medicine is a wonderful and amazing thing, don't let some bonehead lead you or your loved ones to their graves with their whacky opinions or straight up misinformation. As Dr. Karl says... 'Get Fact"

 

 

Edited by Halcyon Daze
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now, i belive that the collective concioicsness, is as well in regards to covid 19 jab's, a serious problem.

allowe me to be clearer, if you are an ozzie, we would be reluctant to get the russian sputnik, or we say huawai is malicious.

 

now a lot of people at this forum have learned to be very sientific, so they don't allow the current "zeitgeist" to cloud ther judgement.

regardless it does still happen, and we have to fight the ignorance, of the people even if there opinon is held by the majorety.

 

i dislike trucks a form of transport, but most people see them as advancement, i dont.

canals and barges were the best form of transport, followed by trains. canals can transport good with the least ammount of pollution and most efficiant,

but my opinon would be laughed at.

 

thank god i will die sooner or later, i don't want to live in this world, because wher it is heading.

 

btw, my ephedras are now 2m tall, hehehe, i never use the medicinaly, as the major seems weak or containig unwanted alkaloids.

 

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On 23/05/2021 at 9:18 AM, fyzygy said:

Big Pharma is laughing all the way to the bank.

 

You appear to be the  only one here with a somewhat sane perspective on this matter.

I can believe this many Australians are rushing to be guinea pgs to protect themselves from a disease that is almost absent in the country.

Or for buying into all that official propaganda.   Just shows what happens when you spook the herd.

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18 hours ago, Mycot said:

 

You appear to be the  only one here with a somewhat sane perspective on this matter.

I can believe this many Australians are rushing to be guinea pgs to protect themselves from a disease that is almost absent in the country.

Or for buying into all that official propaganda.   Just shows what happens when you spook the herd.

 

You must love living an insular life.

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6 hours ago, tripsis said:

 

You must love living an insular life.

 

Yes I do, in relation with what is out there.

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On 26/05/2021 at 9:53 PM, Halcyon Daze said:

As Dr. Karl says... 'Get Fact"

Listening to his latest podcast, it's obvious that Dr Karl is the one who stands most in need of "getting fact" -- especially in relation to male sexual anatomy and its surgical vicissitudes. The trouble is, as a science "journalist," Dr K. discharges his professional obligations merely by regurgitating the (arguably racist) orthodoxy of global medical elites, such as the WHO. Ring any bells?

 

14 hours ago, tripsis said:

You must love living an insular life.

A government-mandated inoculation program absolutely ruined my great-grandfather's dairy operation, back in the day (around 100 years ago). He and his herd lived in an elevated area geographically isolated from outbreaks of red-water disease ... until of course he followed state directives and inoculated the herd. He was ultimately denied compensation for the complete loss of his herd (and eventually, of the land he had settled) despite a prolonged battle in the courts. Once bitten, twice shy ...

 

In any case, there are sound reasons -- ethical and political as much as they might be personal -- for resisting not just half-baked, ad hoc vaccination programs, but the flawed, exploitative and authoritarian Western paradigm of biomedical research & development. 

 

I'm not trying to dissuade or persuade anyone. I respect the decision of anyone who elects for Covid-19 vaccination (my wife, for example). Why should those who decline vaccination be so deeply begrudged and disrespected? It's a rhetorical question, but well worth asking, if only of oneself.

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I believe one must be clear in ones mind as to why one may chose vaccination.

 

Fear of death ?

Fear of "Long term Covid" ?

So filled with the constant media barrage with its fearmongering that one is unable to think straight  ?

You're going to be badgered into doing it anyhow ?

Other ?

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Posted (edited)

If you're convinced the current COVID-19 vaccination options aren't good for your health and you don't trust mainstream media or government communications as a source of information on the issue, try speaking to a health practitioner or a scientist, or try reading relevant health and science publications. If you don't trust these sources, I would ask you to look critically at the sources you do trust.

 

People on this forum begrudge, disrespect and badger anti-vaxxers because not only is science and health expertise strongly represented amongst forum members, most likely view anti-vaxxers as a threat to the health of themselves, their friends and family, and the human population. This is less like drug use, which poses a risk primarily to your own health, and more like driving a car, which poses a risk to the health of others, too.

Edited by Wile E. Peyote
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If you are addressing  me then I may comment that your post has little relevance to my last post.

It only reflects your own quasi-religious view of things.

 

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18 hours ago, Mycot said:

 

Yes I do, in relation with what is out there.

 

Congratulations. However, not everyone does, so perhaps consider this before making misguided attacks on the mentality of the "herd". You are not more enlightened, nor superior, to those you judge around you.

 

10 hours ago, fyzygy said:

 Why should those who decline vaccination be so deeply begrudged and disrespected? It's a rhetorical question, but well worth asking, if only of oneself.

 

Because it's a question of public health. No one begrudges whether you choose to decline a rabies shot, because the risk of contracting it in Australia is nonexistent, if excluding the lyssavirus carried by bats.

 

But COVID-19 is not rabies, and there is a clear risk associated with catching the disease, and that disease would clearly spread very rapidly in this country with adequate measures in place. The thing about vaccinations where the aim is herd immunity, is that what you want for yourself isn't necessarily the most important consideration. There are immune-compromised individuals out there for whom vaccination isn't an option, but in all likelihood, don't wish to contract COVID-19. The best way they can gain protection is via society achieving herd immunity. That is challenging in a society filled with scientifically illiterate individuals who consume a diet of Sky News / YouTube conspiracy theorists / Alex Jones / Reddit / other sources of bullshit, and who rank their own petty and misguided concerns as the pinnacle of all things that need to be considered.

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3 hours ago, tripsis said:


Congratulations. However, not everyone does,

 nor superior, to those you judge around you.

 

 

Thank you, I answered the question for myself as requested. Everyone is not my concern.

If we are so concerned about the welfare of everybody then perhaps they could stop destroying the planet and make greed illegal.

 

The rest of your  post is pure BS from Mr Judgement himself.

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Personally, I’m really disappointed by how many people are getting their information from the opinions of self-proclaimed scientific experts that are just repeating things they have read without holding relevant qualifications within the field required to understanding this sort of information. It truly baffles me that the general public’s debate, is focused around scientific believers versus anti-vaxers, as if all scientist have drawn the same conclusions and are in complete agreement with each other. It is incredibly disheartening that rather than supporting Australia researchers with novel ideas to develop covid treatments, we have signed up to international pharmaceutical corporations promises of a safe and effective vaccine well before research has demonstrated it to be just that.

 

Meanwhile effective treatment methods aren’t even on the general public’s radar. At this point in time most people seem confused about what mRNA is, so how can they be expected to understand what miRNA’s and siRNA’s is and why using them as a treatment is potentially vastly superior to the development of an effective vaccine.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-17/queensland-coronavirus-antiviral-treatment-covid-19/100144370

 

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2019.00478/full

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40265-021-01474-5

 

It would be interesting to investigate the role influenza vaccines have played upon the evolutionary pathways of the influenza virus, and it seems pertinent to have a full understanding of this before we jump into large scale deployment of covid vaccines which may very well end up having similar consequences, if it is demonstrated that vaccinations programs have influenced influenzas evolutionary drift.

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