covid 19 vaccination

[SayN]

1 hour ago, 2XB said:

yikes at the wikipedia link using cubisms guide to lend credibility to a 'scientific' media article, I feel this fails! I mean I know its not scientific media,but surely we can apply the same logic to an online encyclopedia?

 

you don't think that AFLDS would be attempting to sue the fuck out of Wikipedia if it contained anything unfactual?

[oncewhywechange]

On 16/10/2021 at 11:20 AM, withdrawl clinic said:

can you explain to me why, the case numbers are still climbing, although, those states have managed to double vax ~80% of there population ??!

i am double vaxxed, and i still get head aches and ringing in the ears, since 11 weeks, thx astra zeneca!

 

as well the soles of my feet are hurting frequently, and for days after the two shots,  ther was a little bit of blood when i blew my nose.

 

head aches and titnitis since 10 weeks, and now they tell us, i can still get covid.

 

if anybody knows, who could help me or who to hold responsible, let me know, thx.

Third dose will rid of them problems, PH.

[waterboy 2.0]

15 hours ago, 2XB said:

yikes at the wikipedia link using cubisms guide to lend credibility to a 'scientific' media article, I feel this fails! I mean I know its not scientific media,but surely we can apply the same logic to an online encyclopedia?

LOL... Yes it is the red headed step child of encyclopaedias, but it's better than some of that shit the "Researchers" come up with. 

 

What you want a thesis... You know you could use that as a stepping stone... As you should

 

Honestly that's the best you've got... FFS... Half the challenged wouldn't know science if it did actually violate them... 

 

Same crew that had a doc front up and have Trump endorse that claimed all illness is demons.. Same crew that caused the hydroxychloroquine shortage... 

 

How about the telehealth quacks they set up fleecing folk, prescribing treatments not endorsed (or proven for that matter) through their own pharmacies... LOL 

 

Some of you will clutch at anything, I dunno why some just don't come out and say exactly what the issues are, instead of touting bullshit... 

 

Truths hurt sometimes... 

[Strontium Dawg]

19 hours ago, 2XB said:

yikes at the wikipedia link using cubisms guide to lend credibility to a 'scientific' media article, I feel this fails! I mean I know its not scientific media,but surely we can apply the same logic to an online encyclopedia?

To be fair, the Wikipedia bit is not reporting on a scientific matter, they're merely stating who funds and runs an organization. Public domain information.

[fyzygy]

https://youtu.be/_7cZr7Z65Yo

 

 

A 5-minute appeal for critical thinking around covid vaccination. Posted for forum users' benefit, not harm. 

[ZooL]

8 hours ago, fyzygy said:

https://youtu.be/_7cZr7Z65Yo

 

You mind listing whatever beneficial points you think are in there?

 

No offence but clicking on certain kinds of youtube links just results in weeks of strange recommendations/suggestions on the right hand side.

 

Or even embed them the same way halcyon has in this thread, that seems to prevent youtube's algorithm thinking i "chose" to watch them and then spamming similar recommendations.

[withdrawl clinic]

Α	α	alpha	a	father
Β	β	beta	b
Γ	γ	gamma	g
Δ	δ	delta	d
Ε	ε	epsilon	e	end
Ζ	ζ	zêta	z
Η	η	êta	ê	hey
Θ	θ	thêta	th	thick
Ι	ι	iota	i	it
Κ	κ	kappa	k
Λ	λ	lambda	l
Μ	μ	mu	m
Ν	ν	nu	n
Ξ	ξ	xi	ks	box
Ο	ο	omikron	o	off
Π	π	pi	p
Ρ	ρ	rho	r
Σ	σ, ς	sigma	s	say
Τ	τ	tau	t
Υ	υ	upsilon	u	put
Φ	φ	phi	f
Χ	χ	chi	ch	Bach
Ψ	ψ	psi	ps
Ω	ω	omega	ô	grow after delta we now got the omikron varient

,once we used up the greek alphabet, whats next?

very normal for viruses to evolve in many varients.

 

maybe the way to classify is by saying omikron 21.

does any body knows the rules for this? like cyclon names don't get re used if it was a big one....

[LokStok]

https://rumble.com/embed/vnmga7/?pub=4

[saguaro]

Anyone remember this? 

I took a screen shot and thought "this one will age well".

 

 

 

[SayN]

move on

 

edit: please

Edited July 6, 2023 by SayN
manners

[withdrawl clinic]

On 04/10/2021 at 2:40 PM, SayN said:

 but feel free complain to your government 

 

 

if you experience, some unwanted side effects from the vac, you can't complain to anybody, or any institution.

 

i tried to contact the tga, all you are allowed to talk to is a phamacist, who say's i'm, sorry for what happend to you.

in the first test, nobody complained about tinitus, but now one if 5000 get's it.

there is a web page for serious side effects, and a goverment pay out scheme, but for non life threatening side effects, you get no help, they just all ignore your pleas.

 

the astra seneca vac, gave me tinitus, and i still have it to this day.

when i had covid, the tinitus intensified, but now it's not very loud again.

it's a very anoying condition, i feel i get no justice....

[Amazonian]

16 hours ago, withdrawl clinic said:

if you experience, some unwanted side effects from the vac, you can't complain to anybody, or any institution.

 

i tried to contact the tga, all you are allowed to talk to is a phamacist, who say's i'm, sorry for what happend to you.

in the first test, nobody complained about tinitus, but now one if 5000 get's it.

there is a web page for serious side effects, and a goverment pay out scheme, but for non life threatening side effects, you get no help, they just all ignore your pleas.

 

the astra seneca vac, gave me tinitus, and i still have it to this day.

when i had covid, the tinitus intensified, but now it's not very loud again.

it's a very anoying condition, i feel i get no justice....

Unfortunately there are many stories like yours. 

 

I hope you get some relief from the tinnitus with nice music, sounds of nature, or some form of distractions.

All the best PH.

[Freakosystem]

The advice at the time the vaccines were first made available in Australia was:

1. They don't keep you from getting the virus

2. Vaccinated people tend to have less severe symptoms and better outcomes

3. The reduction in harm from the virus has a greater effect size than the risk of the vaccines

 

The data show these all to be true.

 

I got tinnitus about 2 years before the vaccines were available. If I got it 2 years later, would I blame them? Possibly.

 

[fyzygy]

10 hours ago, Freakosystem said:

1. They don't keep you from getting the virus

2. Vaccinated people tend to have less severe symptoms and better outcomes

3. The reduction in harm from the virus has a greater effect size than the risk of the vaccines

 

The data show these all to be true.

 

Anecdotal evidence, in my experience, supports only the first of your three conjectures. The third one is impossible to prove, especially as adverse vaccination outcomes are systematically underreported, i.e. excluded from data collection. I can't speak to symptoms such as tinnitus, but I'm still struggling with social anxiety after being abused and discriminated against on account of my vaccination status. That's been a downward spiral as far as mental/physical health is concerned. But absolutely none of this will be counted against the official public health response to Covid. 

 

The map is not the territory. 

[Darklight]

On 07/07/2023 at 11:05 AM, withdrawl clinic said:

it's a very anoying condition, i feel i get no justice....

 

 

Dunno if you've noticed, but it's not just your justice that's being sidelined. Going to a GP these days is a lottery, very few winners, lots of lazy diagnosis and being sent home and told you're imagining it. Or worse, drug seeking- even when you haven't asked for drugs. It'll get your appointment terminated straight up and go on your record for future appointments

 

IMO it's a major contributor to Australia having a high rate of chronic illness. Nobody bothers to investigate until you're almost dead

 

I do believe vax injury is a thing, but so is longCOV. There are no perfect answers yet. Hope your symptoms vanish fast and you can heal

[Freakosystem]

2 hours ago, fyzygy said:

 

Anecdotal evidence, in my experience, supports only the first of your three conjectures. The third one is impossible to prove, especially as adverse vaccination outcomes are systematically underreported, i.e. excluded from data collection. I can't speak to symptoms such as tinnitus, but I'm still struggling with social anxiety after being abused and discriminated against on account of my vaccination status. That's been a downward spiral as far as mental/physical health is concerned. But absolutely none of this will be counted against the official public health response to Covid. 

 

The map is not the territory. 

 

You disagree with points 2 and 3?

 

To recap, my points 2 was:

2. Vaccinated people tend to have less severe symptoms and better outcomes

 

If point 2 was wrong then the null hypothesis would be correct by definition. This would mean that vaccinated people would either have the same exact outcome as unvaccinated individuals or in fact have worse outcpmes that unvsccinated individuals.

 

Broadly speaking, the constituents of the vaccine can be broken down into two categories; the stuff that's novel to vaccines and the stuff that isn't. The novel ingredient is the spike protein from the virus and the rest of the constituents are not novel. Everything other than the spike protein is used in other vaccines regularly so there's no logical way they would cause more harm in covid vaccines than other vaccines.

 

Therefore, any additional harm is the result of the spike protein. For the null hypothesis to be true, there would either have to be no immune response (I.e. no change in outcomes for those vaccinated vs those who weren't) or the outcomes for individuals with covid would be worse amongst vaccinated than the unvaccinated.

 

Given that the amount of spike protein supplied in a vaccine is tiny compared to the amount received when actually infected, how could it logically be that it is somehow more harmful? Is the spike protein somehow magically absolved of the dose/response curve that all other antigens adhere to?

 

Point 3 was:

3. The reduction in harm from the virus has a greater effect size than the risk of the vaccines.

Again, the amount of spike protein in thr vaccine is incredibly low compared to the amount of spike protein an infected individual has. Even the smallest of immune responses offsets this spike protein load. And we inownpeople have immune responses due to the localised muscle soreness and mild flue like symptoms which many experience the day after a vaccination. Plus, the virus has additional structures which also have biological effects beyond that of the spike protein.

 

You have my sympathy for being ostracised. Many were ruthless and thats not acceptable. Nobody should be shamed into doing something they don't want to do or bullied for not doing so. It's both gross and counter productice. I wish you a full recovery.

[withdrawl clinic]

3 hours ago, Darklight said:

 

 

Dunno if you've noticed, but it's not just your justice that's being sidelined. Going to a GP these days is a lottery, very few winners, lots of lazy diagnosis and being sent home and told you're imagining it. Or worse, drug seeking- even when you haven't asked for drugs. It'll get your appointment terminated straight up and go on your record for future appointments

 

IMO it's a major contributor to Australia having a high rate of chronic illness. Nobody bothers to investigate until you're almost dead

 

I do believe vax injury is a thing, but so is longCOV. There are no perfect answers yet. Hope your symptoms vanish fast and you can heal

you rise some very valid points.

so, if one of the docs that worked at the surgery before, wrote down, "muscle pain" than thats it, even if you say, "it has to do with food" or the scans said " your lower verts are vacummed.

asking for painkillers, unless you had an operation is a red flag for them, and you will get stigmatised. i complained once to a male triage nurse, and he run a vendetta against me, and i did not get a proper treatment.

i am prescribed 400mg ibubrofene and i use this as an anty inflamatory, so for periodes one or two a day for a week or so, when telling this do the doc which filled in, he refused to writte me another script, for ibuprofene!!

 

most doctors and the media  are extreemly deluded, they think street drugs make addicted, and prescription drugs don't!!!

if you say to them, i got hooked on the anti depressant, and have to increase dosage, they say it doesn't matter this drug is good for you.

as a shaman i realised the ssri's are not good for me, and now the most modern research claims, ssri's don't fix depression and the benefits were overstated and the side effects ignored.

i took once occasional a anti depressant/ anti psyhotic which name now escapes me, when i said to my doc, this makes me suicidal in a way i never experienced before, he said double your dose, what an idiot. i stopped taking it, and never had this feeling ever again.

a friend of mine suicided whilst taken this pill....

doc's prescribe those drugs even to alcoholics, all though it very bad to mix them.

 

one time, my diverticulits pain was soo bad, i took 2 oxicontin which i had left after an operation, they only masked the pain, and helped not much...

i am lucky i am a shaman, and i can treat my issues at times with herbs.

the other thing is to accept things for how they are.

[Amazonian]

18 hours ago, Freakosystem said:

The advice at the time the vaccines were first made available in Australia was:

1. They don't keep you from getting the virus

2. Vaccinated people tend to have less severe symptoms and better outcomes

3. The reduction in harm from the virus has a greater effect size than the risk of the vaccines

 

The data show these all to be true.

 

 

1. definition of a vaccine ? 

2. NSW health were transparent with covid-19 hospitalisations and vaccination status unlike other states. I’m not great at reading graphs n shit, but looking at this particular basic information  ( see pic and link) leads me to believe your point 2 not to be accurate?!  Am I misreading the info from the nsw website? 

3. It is known that side effects are hugely underreported and we may never know the true numbers of reactions to the ‘vaccine’. Admittedly some reactions are minor  ( sore arm, headache  etc) but many are major.  Over time, I am sure we will see some new side effects rearing their head : ( 

 

I, like fyzygy , have suffered greatly for choosing not to take part in the vaccination roll out. Among other things,  I was fired from my job and as a result, I’m broke/broken, and ….  um … , it’s  too personal to go into,  and no one can fathom another persons misery anyway. 

 

At the end of the day,  we all do what we believe is right for us , and no one should ever expect others to conform against their will and be coerced/ bullied to take part in anything, especially “the worlds largest clinical trial”  as Greg Hunt put it. 

 

That’s all I have to say. 

 

 

 

page 4 

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/weekly-covid-overview-20221231.pdf

 

(more of the same can be found here… ) 

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/weekly-reports-archive.aspx

 

 

[Freakosystem]

1 hour ago, Amazonian said:

 

1. definition of a vaccine ? 

2. NSW health were transparent with covid-19 hospitalisations and vaccination status unlike other states. I’m not great at reading graphs n shit, but looking at this particular basic information  ( see pic and link) leads me to believe your point 2 not to be accurate?!  Am I misreading the info from the nsw website? 

3. It is known that side effects are hugely underreported and we may never know the true numbers of reactions to the ‘vaccine’. Admittedly some reactions are minor  ( sore arm, headache  etc) but many are major.  Over time, I am sure we will see some new side effects rearing their head : ( 

 

1. "A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious or malignant disease". This does imply full imunity and neither the Australian government nor the pharma companies involved were claiming total immunity when the first batch arrived in Australia. The claim was that the data showed they improve patient outcomes. This is still correct. 

 

2. Are you misreading? No. You're drawing inferences which cannot be made from that data. There's insufficient data for your interpretation. You need to compensate for the fact that the very high risk population was the first to receive the vaccine. If you're many times more likely to die or be hospitalised from covid than the rest of the population and you take a vaccine which improves your likelihood of survival but not more than your pre-existing vulnerabilities, you're still far more likely to die from covid despite the vaccine.

 

3. You didn't address my point despite quoting it and numbering yours. Are you referring to side effects from all vaccines (notnjust covid ones) or are you referring to side effects caused by the spike protein which is present in orders of magnitude more abundance when infected by covid and therefore not attributable to the vaccine but rather the virus?

 

*edit* Again, I'm stopping short of telling anybody what to do with their life. I don't want to do that. I couldn't deal with the burden of having to make decisions for others. I think that's wrong.

 

But I'm equally unapologetic about what opinions I hold. I'm explaining me, what I believe and why I believe it. No harm or disrespect meant to anybody.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Freakosystem

[fyzygy]

On 10/07/2023 at 9:10 AM, Freakosystem said:

To recap, my points 2 was:

2. Vaccinated people tend to have less severe symptoms and better outcomes

Not the experience of my household, where exactly the reverse held true. As I say, anecdotally, in my experience, etc. 

 

[saguaro]

On 10/07/2023 at 9:10 AM, Freakosystem said:

Is the spike protein somehow magically absolved of the dose/response curve that all other antigens adhere to?

 

 

I'm a bit confused by your posts Freakosystem, for a few reasons.

 

Most people in Australia were vaccinated with mRNA vaccines (the first mRNA products approved for human use), not with vaccines which included the spike protein itself. While the spike mRNA is translated into the spike protein in vivo, I don't think spike mRNA behaves exactly the same way as the spike protein from a pharmacological perspective. mRNA is also subject to degradation in storage and transport to a greater degree than traditional antigen vaccines. Not to mention nucleic acids can cause biological effects independently of the activity of proteins that may or may not be translated from them downstream.

 

On 10/07/2023 at 3:41 PM, Freakosystem said:

Are you referring to side effects from all vaccines (not just covid ones) or are you referring to side effects caused by the spike protein which is present in orders of magnitude more abundance when infected by covid and therefore not attributable to the vaccine but rather the virus

 

 

I've been curious for a while where the idea comes from that resultant concentrations of spike from mRNA vaccination are lower than during covid infection, let alone orders of magnitude lower.  Is there any literature anyone knows of that has compared concentrations of circulating spike protein in covid-19 infection versus vaccination?

 

 

[LokStok]

On 09/07/2023 at 5:56 PM, Freakosystem said:

2. Vaccinated people tend to have less severe symptoms and better outcomes

 

Everything I've seen, heard and experienced points to the exact opposite being the case.