The Philosophy Discussion Thread!

[Bert&Ernie]

Philosophy defined by Wikipedia as the study of general and fundamental problems, such as those connected with reality, existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language. Philosophy is distinguished from other ways of addressing such problems by its critical, generally systematic approach and its reliance on rational argument.^[3] In more casual speech, by extension, "philosophy" can refer to "the most basic beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an individual or group"

So here is a thread to discuss things philosophically.

Have fun!

[Bert&Ernie]

[PositiveHAL]

can it start with free will?

[Bert&Ernie]

start with what ever you want this is an open discussion

[Rum and Monkeys]

My philosophy is the more cacti, the better

I have no philosophy, no nothing... Lol

[Rum and Monkeys]

Free will is good.

[whitewind]

Free will, bound by biology and culture. It's there, just not easy to release.

Edited August 6, 2013 by whitewind

[bogfrog]

Bout time there was some philosophy and spirituality in the Spirituality & Philosophy sub-forum.

Cheers Jwerta. I'll be keeping an eye on developments.

[Foo]

[Jumpstarter]

Are we assuming that this world is real?

[Yeti101]

Free will is good. But you should ask yourself if you are lumping it together with freedom. Free will as the idea that our choices are not pre- determined - that we could have chosen to act a different way - is a tricky thing to defend at times. What does it mean to make a choice? If we are not just the product of cause and effect (and we could be, regardless of whether or not we are nothing more than matter) then how do we give an explanation of what is going on?

Personally I think there are better things to worry about.

Consider this example: I can't legally buy or sell certain things and I don't think that this should be the case. My freedom is restricted and I'm pissed off about this whether I have free will or not.

If you had every liberty restricted - everything taken from you (except possibly your life) then what good would your free will be? If free will is the ability to choose then freedom is the choices we have available to us. I know which one of these things I'm more concerned with.

[Jumpstarter]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom

Both can be one and the same.

Pre-determination is just one theory which opposes free will, and if everything is pre-determined, then can you say that we have no freedom as well?

Edited August 7, 2013 by Jumpstarter

[Yeti101]

Some might argue that they are one and the same, but I separate them. The Free Will article on wikipedia (that Jumstarter linked to) is good, if for no other reason to illustrate how complicated the issue is. It is safe to say that there are a lot of factors for and against it. Concepts like Liberty or Political Freedom are less problematic and have more practical effect on our everyday lives.

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Nothing but wiki links in the philosophy thread so far... Oh dear ;)

[IndianDreaming]

If I freely and of my own free will free my willy will I be free?

[Jumpstarter]

There is nothing wrong with using Wiki for a starting point; to provide a broad scope on topics and develop initial opinions.

[gtarman]

Free will is a good jumping off point.

My take on it is that it's really hard to answer with our current scientific understanding of the phenomenon of consciousness...but my guess is that everything is cause and effect (right down to a molecular and atomic level)...but in such an incredibly complex way, and influenced by so many diferent sources of chaos and randomness that it's not really even useful to try and understand or predict it, or to feel like all is doomed to play out in a set way that you have no say in.

Maybe try to think of it this way...you do have a say in how things happen, you've just already made the decision, sort of.

But it's a catch-22 question really anyway - we might guess if we could have done something that we just did differently, and the answer is that yes, you theoretically could have, but you can only ever make that exact choice in that exact moment one time - and you did it the way you did based on what you were thinking and what was happening at the time, influenced with some level of chance. And I'd say that's true of just about everything we do.

I think consciousness is not an escape from cause and effect, but more an awareness of it really. But who knows, really...

[Yeti101]

Nothing but wiki links in the philosophy thread so far... Oh dear ;)

I'd just as soon use no links unless necessary. Much better for people to put forward their positions in their own words.

[ThunderIdeal]

my own words, my own words. my own words...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

[Rabaelthazar]

For me, it all starts with this:

"The only thing I can know for certain is that I don't know".

Does god exist? I can't be certain.

Does the physical world exist? I can't be certain. Perhaps, or perhaps it's all a creation of my mind

Do you guys exist? I can't be certain.

Does my mind exist? Do I exist as who I experience myself to be? I can't be certain. Perhaps, or perhaps I'm a creation of some other consciousness... an artificial intelligence.

Whatever the actual truth, “I” perceive myself to be existing in a physical world inhabited by other sentient beings. I can choose my thoughts and actions based on the perceived external factors at any given moment.

Through my experiences, I have formulated a basic map of the way my thoughts and actions affect the external environment and therefore try to choose thoughts and actions that will result in the most harmonious effects.

[Jumpstarter]

This sounds a lot like Descrates's Meditations. His work is definitely worth reading!

[Yeti101]

It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

Tricks and nonsense? Almost certainly. Simple? Almost never.

[ThunderIdeal]

not my own words either, i quoted Han Solo.

[Yeti101]

Should have picked that up

[Yeti101]

The problem that really floats my boat (philosophically) is the 'hard problem of consciousness' - This is the problem of explaining how we have subjective experience. There is something it is like to experience the colour red, pain, joy, heat, the taste of pepper, the sound of the wind and so on. What we know about our physical form tells us little about why these experiences should be this way. The subjective nature of pain, for example - no amount of knowledge of anatomy or neuroscience can give you the knowledge of what it is like to be stabbed in the leg with a biro - you can only get that from actually experiencing it. Some people thing that this problem could be solved by better physical knowledge, but I disagree.