Are YOU able to visualize very clearly for real???

[Alchemist]

Although I have been interested in 'mind science' since the late 80's - that is using the power of the mind through visualization to influence the physical world, I have not been able to develop the main skill required to any great depth whatsoever. This mind science is know by many other names, and lately it has been made popular once more by the book/movie ' The Secret'. In reality it is part of the occult.

The main problem is that one needs to have very strong visualization skills, being able to see in your minds eye an exact movie of what is 'desired'. So strong that if you so wanted, could include a created image inside your real vision, and remove it at will.

Unfortunately when I close my eyes all I see is darkness and although I can think of objects, such as a cube, and even rotate it, I can't at all see it. I see nothing but can 'sense' what I'm thinking of, so long as it is of a basic design.

I have tried, but not for long I must admit, techniques such as image streaming, binaural beats, concentrating on after images and others, but after about two to four weeks gave up as I could see no improvements and got psychologically tired of the exercises. I expected some improvement , like when when learning to ride a bike or any other skill but weeks later there no no improvement at all.

Tell me, can anyone here, without the use of hallucinogenic substances really imagine something like a flower and see it in full detail whilst awake and not half asleep?

Can anyone imagine that flower on a table whilst you are looking at the table and make it look so real that you would swear the flower was actually on the table?

I've reached the stage where I'm wondering if these books make good reading but are a lie?

Thanks.

[Thelema]

I practised a slight variation of the body of light exercise whereby I would close my eyes at night and imagine being able to see "through" my eyelids. After about 2-3 months of this, especially when camping, I could do what you are saying, although not under conscious control i.e I wasn't "in charge" of what it was I saw.

Slow going, but if you practice those exercises you should see some results in 2-3 months

[holymountain]

I have no trouble doing this these days though I must admit I have been practicing/researching/dabbling for the last six years.

I recall reading a book called 'How to Astrally Project in 90 Days' many years ago which had lots of techniques for visualisation etc. I remember not being able to do any of it but the book introduced me to the concepts and ideas.

I would say that experiments with power plants opened my mind to its potential and perhaps unblocked some of the filters or belief systems that might have been holding me back. For a while there I was practicing a run of Aleister Crowley's exercises in which you visualise an object and then hold it in your mind for as long as you can without letting it change or shift. There are other visualisation exercises that he used to strenghten the mind and I would recommend them. Very hard to do, but the practice seemed to work.

I also used guided meditations that would allow someone to narrate something like the opening and cleasning of chakras while I would close my eyes and visualise. After a few goes they become very, very powerful and you can do them yourself without the assistance of an audio guide. I'm at the point now where I can visualise worlds, scenarios, beings, objects in real life or imaginary realms and they pretty much take on a life of their own.

As such my use of power plants has dropped to almost zero. I frequently find myself going on journeys brought on only by my mind that seem to be equally as revealing and helpful as any psychedelic journey.

All of this said...some people are not geared toward the visual and have other senses that are stronger. Perhaps you take your information in through touch or hearing and not so much from visions.

Finally, cannabis can be a help with this at the start but long term use will deaden or cloud up the third eye a little bit.

Good luck!

[goneski]

I've had no luck visually, although I haven't really tried.

But, I do find that sometimes if I'm thinking of a certain sound or song, I actually hear it.

I don't mean I hear it internally / within the mind, I actually think I can hear it.

[IndianDreaming]

I can do this when I'm in a relaxed dreamy state, but not when I'm wide awake. I've practiced lucid dreaming techniques on and off for 15+ years, so I'm more comfortable in the near sleep state. If I have my eyes closed and visualise say a flower - I can bring it in and in and in until for a brief moment, it becomes 'real' but unless I'm really relaxed, it fades in and out. I've opened my eyes in full vision mode before and it is overlaid over reality, but it's 95% transparent and is very quickly washed out by the light coming into my eyes.

I used to practice keeping my eyes closed for a few mins, then open them whilst staring at a single spot for 5 secs, then close them again - and after 10-30 seconds a negative image develops in your mind - if you practice this again and again, you can hold the negative image longer and longer. But it still wants to fade away. I've found that it comes in waves, so it materialises, then fades then materialises...

For me, being aware of this cycle, It makes it easier to visualise things. Think of it, relax, think of it, relax, and once you get the rhythm right, you can hold images that look quite surreal, full colour, and whilst they still slip away, I've been able to hold an image for a few minutes or more.

Even small amounts of chemicals can change this. coffee, smoking, energy drinks, or anything that turns the light on in your head seems to be of benefit.

[Sallubrious]

To me it sounds like you are trying to "see" with your eyes closed.

Trying to actually see is a bit of fallacy when it comes to that sort of visualisation as the eyes aren't involved. What you are trying to do is "see" with your minds eye or in other words imagine what you want to "see".

Try closing your eyes when you are relaxed and it's highly unlikely that you will only perceive a black void. Most people perceive colours and shapes that are for most part completely random. Once you acknowledge that something is on radar then try to change it in some small way (size, shape or tone etc) and after a while you should be able to manipulate shapes and form a few shapes at will. When you can form a basic shape it's only a small step to introduce more complex forms and movement. For me when I get stuck and can't "see" a good image I form an image of two gears intermeshed and turning in opposite directions, for me that's like a key that unlocks the whole process and lets much more complex images flow.

Once you can form a good image you will be tuned in to your "minds eye" and should be able to move on to more advanced colourful images.

I'm a very visually orientated person so it comes quite easy to me, if you are not so visually oriented then try to determine what sort of personality type are ie Kinesthetic or auditory dominated (your own speech habits can be a good indicator here ie are you more likely to "see" what someone is getting at, "hear what they are telling you or "feel" that they are telling the truth) and try to introduce a few imagined feelings or sounds into the process to involve more senses and ease the transition to a pure visual experience. Smells can be very powerful too especially if you are trying to remember something.

Some aspects of self hypnosis can really help get you into a suitable brainwave pattern for it too, once you can willfully get out of the beta state that should help a lot.

Once you can make images, look into image streaming but be warned, once you crack it it can be very hard to turn the images off.

Edited October 3, 2012 by SallyD

[etherealdrifter]

so, just to clarify.......you want to be able to see things that aren't there and manipulate them - without the aid of brain juice jungle smoothies etc........interesting.....excellent topic for discussion.

i'm not that young ...or that old for that matter but .............why?

each to their own me thunks.

i've tried over the years to 'see' future events but i just gave up after about 25 years of trying.

eg I've tried to win and influence people through learnt technique but i failed and had to resort to my unflappable, modelesque good looks.

another time, i tried to move a chair with mind science(to knock over a particularly horrible garcon(really fish with cheese CARMON) but -surprisingly-to no avail.

i could go on but you get the scenario, there must be a secret to all this that people like Randy and Don Lane had????

if you are vibe-ing me, it's a great ruse , all for one one for all....but, when i close my eyes, it's dark at first, then i can see things form,shape and then i can manipulate them BUT it's never anything i want or pre-determined...shitfucken,

there are always are things that just pop into my 'eye' without any prompting from me. just once i'd like to be able to set and control the light show.

hope that made some sense of my question interpreting skills

btw - did anyone see something in the white sauce space?

oh sorry, and another thing, staring into a fire cleans my mind palate......then i close my eyes and have good strong strength to create clay figurine people who do make excellent art for me.

alchemist has a nice feather in his hat

[IndianDreaming]

Alchemist: Regarding the book/movie - "The Secret". Within the first 10 pages and repeatedly throughout the book the author states "Like attracts like, just like a magnet" - This is retarded. Any primary school kid can prove that statement wrong, and people have known that opposite ends of a magnet attract for hundreds, if not thousands of years. The author relies so heavily on 'like attracts like, just like a magent' that it's impossible for me to take even the slightest thing she says with even half a grain of salt that I borrowed from my neighbour's mate's uncle's brother's sister inlaw's cousin. There may be some truth to visualization and positive thinking re-shaping your physical world - you don't need to be a rocket scientist so see that this is the case - but the author of 'The Secret' is a parrot not a prophet, simply trying to capitalize on some good advice she once was lucky enough to hear from an intelligent person that was probably trying to teach her to be less of a dickwit. To her credit, she did get off her ass and write a motivating book - albeit with flaws that violate the physical laws of nature, she had a go and motivated millions of people. - go girlfriend!

Visualisation like you mention is possible, I've personally had tiny glimpses of it and would consider myself a 1% master at it. But if i can get to 1% just frigging around, a really determined and patient person could easily get to 10-20% in no time at all. Any more than that and as SallyD mentions, it would become more of a hinderance than a blessing. I think that's why accessing this sort of thing through the use of an instrument, such as a plant extract, fasting, meditation etc is the way to go - if this was 'on' all the time, it would drive you mad unless you were a zen master at focus and control.

Yet I still wish that I could do it whenever it suited me...

[Alchemist]

Thanks for the posts people, keep them coming as I am digesting it all.

To clarify, it is apparently possible to develop the visualization skill to such an extent that one can imagine anything and see it with eyes open. As a side exercise one must also practice removing the image deliberately to avoid going mad.

I came across this concept while reading an occult book twenty years ago (not dark force material, but how to influence things of this world). It stated that before any magic work can ever work, the person must develop such a strong skill. Without it none of the spells, wishes and dreams come true.

I came across a similar concept again reading Ophiel's excellent books on creative visualization and again in a more random way while reading all sorts of material from obtaining prophecies to astral projection on the etheric plane.

I once asked a person who was practicing reki and she claimed she could immediately picture an object and see it on the table. She seemed puzzled that I could not do that and though that I was the one telling fibs.

Books say anyone can achieve this, it seems to need a herculean effort on my part.

After researching for years I believe that such a skill is not just a novelty but can be used to enhace ones life in a dramatic way.

That's why I'd like to know if anyone here has such a skill, even a weaker one.

[IndianDreaming]

Lol - I just re-read my post, I dug pretty deep on that author... oops. But I think it speaks volumes about the world if it that book can motivate millions of people, and contain the most basic fundamental physical flaw, and yet people still flock to it...

I have another example that fits what you're looking for/talking about:

I went to a group guided meditation session, with 5 people and an instructor. The instructor told us to think about a ball at each of the chakras - red for the base of the spine, orange, yellow, green/pink etc... as you move up your body, and to visualise it for a minute or 2. Then we would each explain what it was we saw, visually, or felt. We were asked to give a description of the impression we each got when we focused our attention to the task of visualising a ball, the size of a basketball, of a particular colour, at the specific location.

To cut a long story short - after we finished visualising the yellow ball - while the person to my right was talking and explaining what she visualised/felt, I looked at the girl opposite me and I was struck with the image of cashews.. I had the weird sensation of cashews. In my mind - I was thinking of a yellow ball at belly height, and when looking at this girl, I felt 'cashews' - it was unmistakable. When it came time for her to speak, she said "I couldn't get the stupid ball to appear, I tried again and again, but all i could get was a jelly bean shape - kinda like a jelly bean but pale yellow and I couldn't get it to go round like a ball - I'm shit at this"

I nearly pissed myself.

The sensation and visualisation I had was crisp and clear - and although this is my only single example of this, I am fully of the opinion that this is a skill that can be honed and tuned. I don't think it's anything mystical or alien. I think it's a natural form of communication that we're generally not accustomed to using in western life. If you look at someone that's just shit their pants - you can tell within 1/100th of a second what has happened - a little more observational skills and I think you could tell a whole lot more from a glance. Whether this translates to being able to 'manipulate' the world around you I'm not sure - but I have no doubt that I actually visualised what she was seeing, but the 'image' I was shown was from my bank of images, but generated from her current state of being. Being more observant of the world around you is definately a skill worth developing. If you can't see it, how can you begin to manipulate it?

Really good fun to explore those thoughts! I'd love to hear any progress you make. Even if it sounds as obscure as what I just wrote...

Edited October 3, 2012 by IndianDreaming

[ballzac]

I used to practice this sort of stuff when I was younger, but never found it to be anything more than an interesting curiosity. Once I discovered the chemically induced states along those lines I was much more impressed.

Anyhoo, start with sitting in a room you are very familiar with. Close your eyes, and visualise the room you are in. You will find it much easier to visualise this than imaginary objects. Once you've managed to visualise the room you are in, try visualising it just the same, but picture it from a different position to what you are actually in. You will be amazed at how much harder it is. Once you succeed at this, you will be astonished when you open your eyes to realise that you hadn't actually transported to the other side of the room. If you get good at this, then you can start to add objects to the room, or visualise locations that are actually remote. Of course, this is still all in your mind. You won't be able to see what the neighbours are doing while your sitting in your loungeroom with your eyes closed. But the illusion can be very convincing.

I have no idea if it's possible to transfer this to any open eye visualisations. I certainly was never able to do that (except in hypnogogic and hypnopompic states). But this is at least a place to start.

[whitewind]

I'm still struggling to see what this is all about. Visualisation of objects, people, events, timelines - all these, I thought, were innate abilities of humans in general. I have no problems with any of these things; I do have problems with accurate memories, especially of the written word, names etc. If someone could help out with this ;)

However, people are different, I know some with strong telepathic abilities (and I have some of these in a weak form, which can certainly be improved with the correct practice, as I have discovered) and other people can visualise aura's easily; again I have a limited ability of this, which I have found extremely difficult to improve, and others appear to have strong energy flow control like Reiki forms, I know of one girl who could manipulate energy, even emotions, quite easily (she struggled with me, partly because I was aware of what she was doing and managed to fox her, much to her puzzlement!).

So Alchemist, can you see with your minds eye but not see this thing as a physical thing, or can you not visualise objects at all?

[IndianDreaming]

Another note :

In todays society, a visualisation that only you can see, in the real world, is generally called a 'delusion' rather than a trancendent experience or esp - and if you speak about it repeatedly and consistently, the men with the white coats come and you may find yourself in a padded white room with a dribble cup, unable to visualise anything except the next cup of pills being given to you...

It occurs to me that if people have these full on visual reality overlays - and the visualisations they have are *useful* - such as seeing a bus in your mind, then turning and seeing a kid on the road, and running to save the kid just before it gets hit - to the roaring applause from the standers by - then all well and good.

But I can imagine these people - given the current status quo - would be very very tight lipped about this ability. For one, they have the upper hand and can see things and change their world to their liking - why would they share that with you? For number 2 - if they say they can do it and try to share it with people, they're labelled a delusional nutwit, and if they persist, they are locked up and treated to free room and board with free drugs... This doesn't mean its not possible to do these things (and in fact in my mind it makes it even more exciting to explore because it feels like something is being hidden from us...) but be careful to watch out for the 'Oh shit, I've just lost contact with the consensus reality' - because that would really suck. I guess this situation is more applicable to the visualisation enhancement experimenter than the meditator though...

balzac hits the nail right on the head - and to help visualise the room, you can open your eyes every 5 mins or so and get the 'negative' image to show in your mind. What you do with it though, I'm unsure. Apart from personal entertainment and possible enhanced observational skills...

This piece by Claude is a fantastic read that explains a lot of what you're talking about: http://www.shaman-australis.com/~claude/dreams.html

Edited October 3, 2012 by IndianDreaming

[Fenris]

There was one time when i was driving and I was thinking which freeway entrance to get on, I was visualising to the point that I stopped seeing where I was and felt like I astrally traveled to a location about 4km up the road, when i came back to my body everything was buzzing and I didn't know where I was and the road seemed so unfamiliar, it scared the crap out of me as I was doing about 60kmh at the time. That was the only time it has ever happened like that.

[Xenodimensional]

I was quite surprised when I discovered that most people can't visualise things in their minds eye.

After that realisation I used to think it was due to reading a lot of books from a very early age, having an overactive imagination, not having a TV for most of my childhood and/or being brought up in relative poverty (and being forced to visualise all those He-Men I wanted so badly) or some combination of those variables.

More recently I'm of the opinion that it's a latent ability we all possess that most people lose in early childhood. Over-exposure to TV is probably what kills it for most people.

I believe it does require practice to maintain the ability - e.g. use it or lose it. Holymountain's last point in his post above is accurate too.

[qualia]

actually, on new years before last i think i was sitting infront of the tv watching rage, i had the 'drop bears' bundy ad run through my head, like really strong. next clip on rage was by a band 'the drop bears'. i thought it was neat. at the time i thought it was god speaking to me, in a celestial language which occurs through manipulation of my reality, rather than through the english language (i mean, 'sif god speaks english <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_rolleyes.gif ). i spent the rest of the day trying to figure out what the message was, but i gave up.

[qualia]

also does anyone find that if they're taking a nap and then wake up just before the phone rings? not that i think it's any sort of telepathic ability but i wonder if on a very subtle subconscious level we're affected by the EM waves of an incoming call or text message?

[bogfrog]

^ Yeah i will quite often pick up my cell phone and look at it just before i get a text.

etherealdrifter: yes i could see a nice big spider in your blank space.

This thread makes me think of one night where i was sitting at the table with my friends and we were all looking at this blank piece of paper.

The more we looked at it, the more we started to see faint drawings, wriggling over the surface of the paper.

When we realised we were all seeing this, it intensified and the "imagined" drawings became more defined, more complex and more fluid.

It was the single most exciting experience i have ever had with some friends and a blank piece of paper.

Edited October 4, 2012 by bogfrog

[Rabaelthazar]

I visualise easily and always have, since I was a little kid. Always saw stuff vividly when I closed my eyes, although like a few other people have said - the visions were not scripted consciously. I can focus on a vision and "see" what I want without my eyes but the unscripted stuff tends to be more enjoyable.

I did take part in a brainwave study once - can't remember much of what it was about but I do remember that when I was hooked up to the EEG machine, the person conducting the study being quite surprised that my brain waves would switchfrom beta to alpha immediately when I closed my eyes. I'm not sure what the norm is, but apparently it was unusual for the switch to be so immediate.

Also, just one thing to mention with the visualisation... it's not necessarily always purely visual... much the way visuals from a hallucinogen are felt as much as they are seen. For instance, if I'm watching a scene unfold I might become aware of three rabbits with star shaped eyes driving motorcycles but it's as if they've appeared outside of my peripheral vision and I am aware of their form and activity without actually seeing them.

And cos the Secret's been mentioned.... love this take on it.

 

Seriously, the Secret is such a wank. I used to work with a guy (in his 60s) who was completely devoted to it.

I think the way things work is that if you focus on something you want to achieve and pour your concentration into it, you'll change your actions to make the desired outcome more likely, whereas "the Secret" insinuates that the desired outcome is not more likely but absolute and due to the universe giving you something because you've asked --- so bloody focussed on material crap as well (although it does also claim to apply to health and happiness in general).

I guess one thing in favour of the Secret is that is teaches the importance of being thankful for what you already have. If you start paying attention to the good stuff that happens in your life as opposed to the bad stuff then of course you're going to find yourself more content. Common sense really.

Love reading everyone's diffferent takes on the subject....

[Rabaelthazar]

One last thing.... re: eyes open vs eyes closed.

I find that the images of your mind can override the images processed by your eyes if you can relax into it enough, both with and without the influence of plants.

I'm not sure if I can describe exactly how it works, but it's like your eyes relax and let go of their images and those images become more of a static backdrop for the projections of your mind. Ummm... like if you had a projector and played a film against a wall, it doesn't matter if someone walks past that wall, the film will be projected onto them as well.

Does that make any sense? I just did it then to see if I could describe it better..... it almost feels like your eyes go a bit crosseyed or something, or the opposite of crosseyed before your images recede into the background and your mind's eye takes over. That's the best I can describe at the moment, I think.

[Alchemist]

Whitewind, I cant see a thing with my minds eye. For example this morning I tried to picture a blackboard on which I wrote numbers with chalk , starting with 99. I then wiped the number and wrote the next descending number until I reached 1.

I could see nothing but imagined the action, just as you would do in a dark room. Or as you would do writing on the board with the eyes closed. As I wrote, I could see no images. It was all done by imagining the movement involved. If I had to imagine something where no movement is involved then I am stumped. For example to imagine a box I can imagine the straight lines and how I could feel aroud the box. I can't see it. If I had to imagine a rose , I would have in my mind a feeling of a blob because I cant imagine all the angles involved nor how it would feel with my big clumsy hands.

IndianDreaming: Yes the 'Secret' was a money making scam, but countless books have been made regarding the fundamental method. She just marketed it well. The books range from Occult books, The masterkey System , The Secret of Success , The power of the subconscious mind. The list is endless. Many intermingle Christianity with the law, (probably to disassociate it with its occult origins), but it all boils down to the law that by imagining what is wanted very strongly, and not aiming too high initially, the astral plane (which is all thought) begins to act on the physical. I don't necessarily believe it, but would love to try it.

[CβL]

I remember they did a study with kids who could bend spoons via telekinesis. They watched them via hidden camera. Some didn't do anything and claimed they couldn't do it on cue. Others waited until the researcher left the room, grabbed the spoon, and bent it with their hands and quickly put it back. Similarly, if you watch some videos from the Randi debunking frauds (to be a balanced person who is interested in the occult, it's only fair you watch some of these and hear the alternate side of the story). - you'll hopefully see that there's a possibility that much of what you read and see from people selling occult secrets, is deceitful and wrong. If you think otherwise - then show your paranormal skills to Randi and you get $1,000,000 for a few hours of your time. Suffice to say, the money hasn't been claimed. :]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that the world doesn't have this kind of thing, but that even if it does, many if not most of the practitioners are just petty fraudsters; some even despicable.

For example, there's a video of a levitating monk that I have no idea how he does it. But that in itself, is not proof he's doing something honest.

[Alchemist]

I have seen Randi's videos and very much like the chap. He has a great personality. I am I scientist, and science has improved our physical quality of life dramatically. but having initially liberated us from the chains of religion is now doing its best to destroy all spirituality. Of those who claim to have special abilities, some are schizophrenic, others have great imaginations and some are cheats. I believe that proving something to one's self is all that is required any more is just too difficult.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Alchemist

[CβL]

Well, I disagree here. Science is not in any way attempting to destroy spirituality. That's the scientists. Science is a method - and the infinitely fallible results of this method and their associated fallible conclusions.

You're doing the equivalent of blaming the hydrogen for destroying Hiroshima, rather than the chaps pushing the button.

And I agree that proving something to yourself is all that's "required", but sometimes just doing the bare requirements will only disservice yourself.

[Alchemist]

Well , I guess I can't see anything spiritual in the scientific research papers that go through my desk , but that's probably just me. Belief in a creator/inteligent force I can easily make myself see, but anything else I can't. I just have to believe in the person who wrote the books and try for myself.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Alchemist