Baneful Botanicals

[Teotzlcoatl]

Baneful Botanicals (Botanicals which may be DEADLY at significantly low doses)-

Old World-

Abrus precatorius ~ "Rosary Pea" or "Precatory Bean"

Acokanthera species ~ "Poison Arrow Plant”

Aconitum species ~ “Wolfsbane” or “ Monkshood”

Amanita phalloides ~ "Death-Cap" or "Destroying Angel Mushroom"

Antiaris toxicaria ~ "Upas Tree"

Atropa belladonna ~ "Belladonna"

Boophane disticha & Boophane haemanthoides ~ "Bushman's Bulb"

Cerbera odollam ~ "Suicide Tree"

Claviceps purpurea ~ "Ergot" or “St. Anthony’s Fire”

Conium maculatum ~ "Poison Hemlock"

Daphne species ~ "Daphne"

Datura metel & Datura stramonium ~ "Dhatura" or "Devil's Trumpet"

Dendrocnide moroides ~ "Stinging Tree"

Dichapetalum cymosum (syn. toxicarium) ~ "Ratbane"

Digitalis purpura ~ "Foxglove"

Erythrophleum guineense ~ "Doom Bark"

Euphorbia species ~ "Spurge"

Helleborus niger ~ "Hellebore"

Hyoscyamus niger ~ "Henbane"

Lupinus species ~ "Lupine"

Mandragora officinalis ~ "Mandrake"

Scopolia carniolica ~ “???” or “Scopolia”

Solanum nigrum ~ "Black Nightshade"

Strophanthus kombe ~ "Kombe"

Strychnos nux-vomica ~ "Strychnine Tree"

Taxus baccata ~ "Sacred Yew"

New World-

Brugmansia species ~ "Brugmansia" or "Angel's Trumpet" *

Brunfelsia charicaspi ~ "Charicaspi" or "Manaca" *

Chondrodendron tomentosum ~ "Curare"

Cicuta maculata ~ "Water Hemlock"

Datura inoxia & Datura wrightii ~ "Sacred Datura" or "Toloatzin"

Desfontainia spinosa ~ "Taique"

Galerina species ~ "Deadly Skullcap Mushroom"

Hippomane mancinella ~ "Manchineel Tree"

Hura crepitans ~ "Sandbox Tree"

Iochroma fuchsioides & Iochroma grandiflorum~ "Paguando"

Karwinskia humboldtiana ~ "Coyotillo"

Latua pubiflora ~ "Arbol De Los Brujos" or “Latue”

Methysticodendron amesianum ~ "Snake Intoxicant"

Nicotiana rustica ~ "Mapacho Tobacco"

Oplopanax horridus ~ "Devil's Club"

Pernettya furens & Pernettya parvifolia ~"Hierba Loca"

Saphora secundiflora ~ "Mescal Bean"

Solandra brevicalyx & Solandra guerrerensis ~ “Kieli/Kieri”, “Tecomaxochitl” or “Hueipatl”*

Tachigali versicolor ~ "Suicide Tree"

Toxicodendron species ~ "Poison Ivy"

Zigadenus venenosus ~ "Death Camas"

The above is a basic list of some of the world's most common dangerous plants! Often many of these botanical are employed as entheogens or medicinals. It is my recommendation that the above botanicals should NEVER be ingested for any reason what-so-ever, but it is important to study these plants, if only to learn how not to poison one's self.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Teotzlcoatl

[Auxin]

Fungi arent plants

IIRC Ergot was primarily lethal in high doses or frequent low doses

Saying N. rustica is too dangerous to ever ingest is a bit skewed. For smokers reasonable doses are 'safe', for non-smokers even one cigar of regular tobacco would be lethal if brewed into ayahuasca. In fact alot of what you listed are life saving medicines in the right hands.

[Zaka]

Irie Teotz,

Good one!

Like the title too.

Respect

Z

[vual]

I would have to semi agree with Auxin, Still i don't give a fuck if i am dieing theres some things on that list that i would never dose on.

There are also some things on that list that i know are given a bad rap due to stupidity and not the proper guidance.

example: Mandrake or Datura / Brugsmansia, deadly in 1 single low dose...? Maybe... If you pull your eye's out and bleed to death...

In regards to medicine, Euphorbia is one of the 50 fundamental herbs of Chinese herbalism.

Also no offense but not all parts of Solanum nigrum is deadly!! silly old wifes tales, whant me to forward you some lovley Solanum nigrum jam i made and feed to my kids???? Just dont eat the green berries!!

Still one must show these plants the utter most respect. Nothing scares me more then when i see a Death-Cap, its like a found a snake i shit myself and take 10 steps backwards.

Nice list

Im not kidding about the jam PM me if you whant a taste.

Edited July 11, 2010 by vual

[Torsten]

I like this type of list. Used to make a few of them myself many years ago and is how I got so interested in the Solanaceae. The problem with such a list is that it is often more logical to include a larger group rather than just single species. eg, there are Nicotiana species far more dangerous than rustica, so rather than listing each one it might be best to state 'high nicotine Nicotiana spp.'

I also think you can remove Desfontainia from the list. I have consumed considerable quantities of both the small leaved variety harvested in Chile and the large leaf form which is cultivated in australia and got nothing more than a tummy ache.

[bℓσωηG]

external use only for daturas i reckon

[Rabaelthazar]

How about creating a filterable spreadsheet so that one document would hold all the info? Might be a bit of a task, but it would be one hell of a resource.

For instance, for each plant you could include a toxicity rating, whether it has been used traditionally, the active compounds, medicinal uses etc...

The user of the document could then filter to get a list of all plants that, say, produce psychedelic effects or a list of plants that aid liver function or have been known to cause deaths. Now that would be really useful. I find your lists interesting and informative and, in reality, if you want to be really comprehensive, you'll need to make a hell of a lot of lists. A spreadsheet you could create and build further as you discover new plants. Just an idea.

[mutant]

I like the direction of this discussion.

Nice idea Rabe, I like it.

Notes for the baneful current list.

1) yeah, Solanum nigrum fresh vegetative growth [excluding fruits!] is eaten in greece, added to dishes of other boiled herbage - a very common practice here, and traditional food - boiled greens that is.

2) Amanita phalloides is used in homeopathy! - but this is for reference only of course.

3) Hyoscyamus albus should be mentioned, since it's native & wild in the mediterraneans, but like others noted, maybe for some plants you should refer to genus instead of refering to species. Some other , rarer species also exist in the middle east asia and mediterranean africa

4) In regards with tropanes, heh, in the end it's a matter of perspective, point of view and to which these lists are adressing too. Maybe it would be interesting to split them in different levels of danger or something f.e. - I don't find the old world - new world division useful.

I get the impression you want to include the 'traditional use' thing in your lists, but it somewhat blurrs the point of the lists themselves. Folowing Raba's idea about the spreadsheet, you could include real info in each entry, including traditional use, warnings about toxicity and/or interactions.

So you wouldn't need to class each plant in its own list, like entheogenic or medicinal, but you would have each entry and tags for each quality, like many botanical books have, f.e. tag for poison/danger warning, tag for medicinal uses, tag for traditional use, tag for use in dyeing, tag for psychedelic/entheogenic effect etc.

It could be even one single spreadsheet including poisonous and 'relatively safe' psychoactives and medicinals.

In my head this list is about useful plants of any kind and/or toxicity.

some data/ideas could be taken from here

http://entheopedia.org/

[WoodDragon]

Against my better judgement I will admit my interest in establishing a spreadsheet of this nature - I'm a bit of a data-pig and a spreadsheet fiend from my many years of postgrad study and from my work in various disciplines of biological research, and it would be a fascinating project.

It could also morph into a damned time-consuming one too, and hence my reluctance to speak up - I would only be able to do it on an intermittent basis, so it would be something that would be longer-term insofar as establishing a useful, searchable spreadsheet/database would go. I'd hate to promise to do it and then be hassled because it takes such a long time to collate, and believe me I know how long it takes, because I've tried to comprehensively collate herbal remedy references before...

If folk want to use this thread as a springboard for gathering data for a searchable database, I suggest that each species be selected by one poster only for comment (at least, until it's obvious that that poster has dropped off the thread), and that its information be maintained in a standard format by that poster. For example, vual might decide to maintain here, for a future database, the info on Solanum nigrum. He would then add a post and follow a schema such as one that I have posted below. If he finds more info later, he can add it to his post, and if anyone else wants to submit information for the post they would pm vual and have him add it to his post - this way there would not be repeated random postings all over the place. Following the schema, and ensuring that there is only one post for each species, would make it a much easier process for whoever the sucker is that takes on the task, to actually import the information into a future database.

If this process were followed, and even if I or someone else don't get off our arses and complete the database, the information with be here and searchable on this thread, if not in sortable format.

One thing that this approach would require for added efficiency would be for Teotz to keep his list in post #1 up-to-date, reflecting every plant that others might describe here, and to include on each line of his list the number of each post where the species is described in detail, and when the post was last modified. A bit of work for him, sure, but that's what one gets when one starts lists like this!

Just my initial thoughts anyway - others might disagree!

Edited July 12, 2010 by WoodDragon

[WoodDragon]

[OK, this is the schema that I was referring to in my post at #9. It's based in part on the database references that Mutant's entheopedia.org link at #8 uses, but it also draws on the fairly common format that many botanical references use. I'm happy to take suggestions for modification of the schema by personal message, following the process I referred in #9, so that there is not a long trail of postings here nutting it out. If people decide to run with the schema and with my suggestion for one person only maintaining info on each of Teotz's banefuls, then all they need to do, in addition to adding more information, is to occasionally check that the schema hasn't been modified.

Note: I have included a title "References/links" in the first grouping for the names. For all of the subsequent fields I included a line for references and links, but I don't think that these need to retain the titles - just the specific sources that peeps use for the specific info, so for these instances just replace the "References/links" text with the actual references or links. Also, it would be easier for the poor chump collating the database from all the information if each reference or link had its own line. If the last sentence didn't make sense, all I'm saying id that the first, emboldened, "References/links" title stays, and all subsequent uses are replaced if any references or links are included - does that make sense?

It does mean that there will be a heck of a lot of referencing right through the lists, but it will make it easier for users down the track to source the original references for particular aspects of the descriptions of the plants that they are tracking, and it will make it easier for any complier to tie the references to the information that they back up.]

So, the schema (using Teotz as an example!):

Teotzea exemplii

Family

Teotzaceae

Genus

Teotzea

Species

exemplii

Subspecies

None identified

Botanical synonym(s)

Rumplestiltskinea exemplii

Pseudonymus exemplii

References/Links

Teotz A and Coatl B (2009). Journal of Fantasmagorical Botany 5(7): 567-589.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teotzea_exemplii

Common Name(s)

Teotz Herb

Teotz Grass

Super-loco weed

References/links

Range

Central Mexican highlands to Costa Rica

References/links

Habitat

Dry savannas and canyons

References/links

Hardiness/Minimum temperature (USDA Zone (°C/°F))

9a (-6.6/20)

References/links

Longevity (Annual, biennial, semi-perennial, perennial)

Perennial in warmer climates

References/links

Sun Exposure (Sun, morning sun, partial shade, full shade)

Sun to partial shade

References/links

Water Requirement

No Info Yet.

References/links

Soil Type

No Info Yet.

References/links

Soil pH

No Info Yet.

References/links

Height (cm/in)

90-120 / 36-48

References/links

Age to Maturity

No Info Yet.

References/links

Bloom Colour

No Info Yet.

References/links

Bloom Time

No Info Yet.

References/links

Physical Characteristics

The nodes are opposite and it has oval serrated leaves (3-5cm long).

References/links

Propagation Method(s) (Seeds, stem cuttings, root/rhizome cuttings, divisions, bulbs, corms, tubers, layering, other)

Seeds, cuttings

References/links

Seed Collection

No Info Yet.

References/links

Propagation from Seed

Need light to germinate.

References/links

Propagation from Cuttings

Very easy from cutting.

References/links

Propagation from...

References/links

Uses

No Info Yet.

References/links

Active constitutents

No Info Yet.

References/links

Toxicity

No Info Yet.

References/links

Cultural history/mythology

No Info Yet.

References/links

Edited July 12, 2010 by WoodDragon

[incognito]

i only found out that the twelve steps of alcoholics anonymous came to the man when he was in hospital under the influence of Atropa belladonna.

[holymountain]

i only found out that the twelve steps of alcoholics anonymous came to the man when he was in hospital under the influence of Atropa belladonna.

really? interesting. i knew that the founding guy had participated in the studies regarding LSD curing alcoholism and always figured it may have played a big part in the beliefs of AA.

[incognito]

ill bring home the article and type it up. quite an interesting read. he was quite the psychonaught, and had od'd on belladonna and was in the m=emergency ward when he had a vision of god who told him the 12 steps to beat addiction. i was flabbergasted.

[WoodDragon]

ill bring home the article and type it up. quite an interesting read. he was quite the psychonaught, and had od'd on belladonna and was in the m=emergency ward when he had a vision of god who told him the 12 steps to beat addiction. i was flabbergasted.

 

Interesting. The wikipedia entry on the subject is rather more sanitised than that!

I'm sure that the AA crowd would be all over any edits that actually correct the record...

[mutant]

WoodDragon

this is a great idea, but like you say, it's a huge project. I think some discussion could also take place before starting anything, and even if this project never proceeds, talking about the scheme alone looks pretty interesting to me.

In anyways, the scheme you propose is cool all over. Are we still talking about baneful plants only?

lets hear what teotz has to say since he might not love the idea of having his thread taken over...

And, people who like lists and listing, do yourself a favour and check out Peter Greenaway films

Edited July 12, 2010 by mutant

[Torsten]

I don't think he was really all that into belladonna, but rather he was at the end of his rope when he tried belladonna and prayer. This is when he had his experience. Funny how only the god part survived in the 12 steps. That would be an interesting thread in its own right.

[t st tantra]

I like this type of list. Used to make a few of them myself many years ago and is how I got so interested in the Solanaceae. The problem with such a list is that it is often more logical to include a larger group rather than just single species. eg, there are Nicotiana species far more dangerous than rustica, so rather than listing each one it might be best to state 'high nicotine Nicotiana spp.'

I also think you can remove Desfontainia from the list. I have consumed considerable quantities of both the small leaved variety harvested in Chile and the large leaf form which is cultivated in australia and got nothing more than a tummy ache.

 

desfontainia was that sweet smelling green powder i was handing around 2 egas ago.smoking small amts was quite pleasant.

i believe your suggestion of coumarins was accurate.

t s t .

[Teotzlcoatl]

Wow, what a great response from all of you!

If anybody wants to do the spreadsheet thing then go for it, and please use my lists as a starting point! Anti-copy-write!

lets hear what teotz has to say since he might not love the idea of having his thread taken over...

 

Do whatever y'all want! I don't care.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Teotzlcoatl

[WoodDragon]

Mutant.

If folk really were interested in such a database, having a discussion about format would be good, if there is interest in that aspect. For the sake of the possible length of this thread though it might be better to start any such conversation elsewhere, so that not too many pages/posts end up littered amongst any actual discussion of the plants themselves.

The schema could certainly be padded out a little - I've already though of modifications - but the danger would be that a public discussion about format could go on for yonks if someone doesn't have a 'dictatorial' finger on the button. One way around it would be to divide changes into major and minor categories: major changes should be fairly obvious and be raised quickly, whilst minor ones could pop up for weeks, months or even years. The easiest way deal with nit-picky aspects of format would be to simply have a final field for sundry comments, where folk could freestyle, and still get their abstract data in without continual tweaking of the basic structure.

One of the questions that should inform any project that might start is "why do it? What uniqueness would it contribute to the bodies of knowledge already available (eg. Erowid and Botanical.com) that follow similar strucures, and what might people get out of it?". I for one would appreciate a resource that provides succinct summaries not only of the collected wisdom elsewhere, but a good précis of the best references for the various aspects of the natural history of unusual plants.

This whole enterprise caught my attention beause about an hour before Rabaelthazar and Mutant raised their ideas, I'd been trawling the literature and the internet to find out about Mandragora caulescens and some of the even more obscure Mandrakes. When one pokes into such dusty corners one realises how paultry the information on such plants is, and how dispersed and very difficult to find it is. Having the capacity to quickly locate sources (and preferebly primary, or otherwise reliable, sources) on nomenclature, distribution, growth and use of such plants would be a boon to researchers. Heck, having a resource that references the best information about even the common stuff would help to cut fact from hearsay.

Anyway, having an explicit goal or set of goals would help to organise any approach to actually collating information about this group (and perhaps other groups) of plants.

Thoughts?

[Torsten]

desfontainia was that sweet smelling green powder i was handing around 2 egas ago.smoking small amts was quite pleasant.

i believe your suggestion of coumarins was accurate.

 

ahhh, yes, I remember that powder. Coumarins are very good at potentiating other substancs, so EGA was probably not the best testing ground ;)

[dworx]

Wow, what a great response from all of you!

Do whatever y'all want! I don't care.

 

"attaboy'

[Hedonix]

Thanks for the post, great info

[vual]

Fantastic project wood dragon, im keen to get involved, I will fill out the Schema, i shotgun "Solanum nigrum" i have had a large range of experience digesting it, and have some mature plants + seeds. Ill Edit this post with a completed Schema for Solanum nigrum tonight. Everyone get on board, and pick a plant to do!! After you enter it into a database I could export it to mysql (depending) and write a php application to search threw it (assuming wooddragon cant, Will you be using access or msql wooddragon?

If you require i can code a data entry page in mysql/php based entirely on the schema then each user can login to edit there "chosen" plant / Add it Directly to the databse, I can provide free lifetime hosting for this, Im keen as punch!.....

A spreadsheet is cool... but a community driven online database would be cooler, and i bet theres already opensource php applications ready to go for this!

Edited July 29, 2010 by vual

[Teotzlcoatl]

I'm really most interested in Brugmansia, Brunfelsia and Solandra... these are the only Baneful Botanicals I would consider ingesting.

I have heard Solandra is considered safer and better than Datura, but little info exist on it's usage.

What do y'all think of the idea that Brugmansia is a highly selected or selectively breed form of Datura? It has been noted that Brugmansia is only found in human cultivation... this makes me wonder.... perhaps it is more suited to ingestion over Datura due to it's long history of cultivation and selection by humans.

If anybody has used either Solandra or Brunfelsia than please share your experience!

[mutant]

I'd like to controbute to the project but I don't know if I have time. Especially now... But I can re-consider on September.

In the mean time, SOlanum nigrum is all over the place here, it's a weed alright.

Teotz, I think that you love for tradition and traditional use blurs your judgement. Plus, you're talking ingesting these plants without telling us 'ingesting with what goal in mind' ?

In my eyes Mandrake and Hyoscyamus are the different ones in the major tropane family, not the brugs....