TWEAKERS THREAD- Caring for Your Body

[ThunderIdeal]

the problem for me is how lackluster everything is afterwards. although i wouldn't dream of going five days.

[ThunderIdeal]

who negatized alchemica's post? what is your problem?

Edited July 13, 2010 by ThunderIdeal

[C_T]

the melatonin part is incorrect.

[mutant]

I am sure royal jelly and Bee bread are revitalising to the body, especially if you're in no mood to eat something proper.

ok, now I am curious....

please fill me in, how much do cats use say, for 5 days in a row ?!?! I am not talking frequent users with elevated tolerance. Like 2,5 ~ 3 gs, or more like 5, since tolerance develops throughout these 5 days?

Would going on for say, two days in a row would have more euphoria on the second day than sleeping in the morning/noon then roll again the next night for another 12-15 hours?

I realise this might not be so appropriate, but this is just for informational and scientific purpose.... and, OK, I am curious too

****

other than than, I agree with C_T comment..

I think binging for days in a row can cause a psychotic break in non-psychosis predisposed people, I am not sure a single break can create a permanent -psychosis related- problem, but the break itself can be traumatising...

Half-serious, half-joke

Do those speedy stuffs work without a bit of alcohol along? my chimp even found mdma was complimented by some slow but steady beer sipping all along...

or is it I am a boozehead? What do you think, do you think the combo with alcohol has it many drawbacks?

[lofty86]

some tend to over do the drink in such a state unintentionally. amphetamines + alcohole is known to produce unhealthy sexual behavior in a lot of people i know

[t st tantra]

you need to take a choline source with piraceitam!

program on sbs tonight at 8.30[check this] about the body clock should provide insight into this subject if it is any good.

imho,stims fucking up your body clock is part of the long term stim abuse syndrome......

t s t .

[Slybacon]

I am sure royal jelly and Bee bread are revitalising to the body, especially if you're in no mood to eat something proper.

ok, now I am curious....

please fill me in, how much do cats use say, for 5 days in a row ?!?! I am not talking frequent users with elevated tolerance. Like 2,5 ~ 3 gs, or more like 5, since tolerance develops throughout these 5 days?

 

Someone once found that 2g was enough to see the 5th sunrise and hit bed not long after. He wasn't taking it for euphoria, the good bits of the experienced were achieved through sleep deprivation. The slowing of ones thoughts, increase in pleasure from sound, focus and creativity. Not once did he appear to be "losing his sanity". At least not from his view ;).

Another psyche nurse that i once knew did 14 days. His goal was to prove that you weren't clinically insane after being awake that long. He told his friends he felt fine, his friends however were on a different opinion. They were ready to have him committed if he didn't go to bed.

I think the world record is 10 days....

Randy Gardner holds the scientifically documented record for the longest period of time a human being has intentionally gone without sleep not using stimulants of any kind. In 1964—as a 17-year-old high school student in San Diego, California—Gardner stayed awake for 264 hours (eleven days), breaking the previous record of 260 hours held by Tom Rounds of Honolulu.[1]

It is often claimed that Gardner's experiment demonstrated that extreme sleep deprivation has little effect, other than the mood changes associated with tiredness (mood swings, short temper, loss of concentration).[6] This is primarily due to a report by researcher William Dement, who stated that on the tenth day of the experiment, Gardner had been, among other things, able to beat Dement at pinball.

However, Lt. Cmdr. John J. Ross, who monitored his health, reported serious cognitive and behavioral changes. These included moodiness, problems with concentration and short term memory, paranoia, and hallucinations. On the fourth day he had a delusion that he was Paul Lowe winning the Rose Bowl, and that a street sign was a person. On the eleventh day, when he was asked to subtract seven repeatedly, starting with 100, he stopped at 65. When asked why he had stopped, he replied that he had forgotten what he was doing.[1]

On his final day, Gardner presided over a press conference where he spoke without slurring or stumbling his words and in general appeared to be in excellent health. "I wanted to prove that bad things didn't happen if you went without sleep," said Gardner. "I thought, 'I can break that (Peter Tripp's 1959) record and I don't think it would be a negative experience.'"[6][7]

[Psiloman]

Piracetam

Modulates Serotonin and dopamine receptors, Enhances neurotransmission, Anti Oxidant, and also potentiates all stimulants. Makes your peak feel more clean

3200mg before stimulant and after

There is also some evidence that piracetam (and aniracetam) modulate AMPA receptor (positive allosteric modulation) ,although i do not know what plasma levels are required for such an action. Its actions seem to be diverse in the bibliography ,although many doctors argue that it does nothing for the longterm. Personally i stand in between : its not "godsend" as people would expect with smartdrugs, its not useless on the other hand.

On another note notice that the latest trends incorporate methylphenidate and modafinil in the "smart drug" category? People seem to be drawn toward "quick fixes",hence a "smartdrug" that you can equivocally "feel" , and "feel" as "enhancing" for many is a winner although not so inline with smartdrugs original definition.

Deprenyl (Selegiline)

Description: MAO-B inhibitor, not to be mistaken with ordinary MAOI's. it reduces cardiovascular toxicity, inhibits formation of peroxides in the brain. inhibits Dopamine metabolism. it may revive dead neurons in the brain. it may reverse neurotoxicity. It is even said it inhibits neurotoxicity from METH use.

May revive dead neurons?! Generally reviving dead things is difficult let alone a neuron...I would be extremely interested to see the original article where the conclusion was drawn from. Do you happen to have it on hand?

Edited July 13, 2010 by Psiloman

[ThunderIdeal]

thanks for discussing guys. i can't add anything to the original post until it gets the nod from some of you.

ct which melatonin part is incorrect? please clarify, i assume you're not talking about this http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/123337831/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 which states "Pretreatment with melatonin, a major secretory product of the pineal gland, abolished METH-induced toxicity, suppressed ROS and RNS formation and also had an inhibitory effect on cytotoxic factor gene expression. The expression of cytotoxic factors produced by microglia may contribute to central nervous system degeneration in amphetamine abusers. Melatonin attenuates METH toxicity and inhibits the expression of cytotoxic factor genes associated with ROS and RNS neutralization in HAPI microglia. Thus, melatonin might be one of the neuroprotective agents induced by METH toxicity and/or other immunogens."

no i don't have the source psiloman. that list of potentially useful stuff i recently posted was drawn from somebodies guide on madam x harm min. i'd be happy to send it to you or anyone, although not everybody agreed with everything he was saying, but he included dosages and when to take them (eg r-ala and magnesium was taken before, during and after).

please fill me in, how much do cats use say, for 5 days in a row ?!?! I am not talking frequent users with elevated tolerance. Like 2,5 ~ 3 gs, or more like 5, since tolerance develops throughout these 5 days?

Would going on for say, two days in a row would have more euphoria on the second day than sleeping in the morning/noon then roll again the next night for another 12-15 hours?

I realise this might not be so appropriate, but this is just for informational and scientific purpose.... and, OK, I am curious too

........

of alcohol along? my chimp even found mdma was complimented by some slow but steady beer sipping all along...

or is it I am a boozehead? What do you think, do you think the combo with alcohol has it many drawbacks?

 

talk of dosage is pointless! shit can be very weak or incredibly strong. it can be taken so many different ways too.

i'm not some really experienced person like you might think judging by the fact that i've started this thread. i can hazard a guess though. (and for your information 'roll' tends to refer to using x, in my experience). day two euphoria will be insignificant compared to day one, unless you've dosed yourself all the way back up there again. whether or not you sleep is a minor issue, it's how much you took and when, so if you have a finite quantity and want maximum euphoria, you consume it all at once end of story.

makes you somewhat immune to alcohol, but not exactly immune to the hangover. people tend to drink like fish if the drink is available, i don't think this is any different to the way that (without the proper self-control) people will smoke like chimneys, it's a state of heightened energy and pleasure and therefore activities (like drinking, smoking, talking, dancing, fidgeting, going on missions) are very welcome. some people might drink a shit load of herbal tea instead, for example. each to their own, just remember you are mixing two very harmful things so don't go overboard on both at once.

[ThunderIdeal]

1g can be enough to send experienced people temporarily crazy, btw, not even 1g. for a week's pay you'd want it to though.

Edited July 13, 2010 by ThunderIdeal

[PhoenixSon]

.ea.

Edited November 21, 2012 by spacemonk

[ThunderIdeal]

you're welcome to if you want but it's a work in progress.

[Chiral]

Incredibly interesting topic I must say, for the life of me I cannot come to some sort of conclusion as to what and how...

Thing is, everyone is different right, but I'd pretty confident in saying that if this was something someone was doing very infrequently, then any external or remedial repair through vitamins or some other organic substance wouldn't be necessary, at best any repairing through these things would be negligible or more than likely heavily placebo.

What is is the definition of very infrequent...?

I'd have to say 2-3 times a year, at this rate a normal healthy individual body and mind should be able to cope with this and self repair to an almost perfect state, purely through ordinary living and a healthy active life. I'd even go so far as to say that even an unhealthy individual should be able to get away with the same, the repair time may well take longer but still should naturally occur and the person should return to normal.

Clarifying also that even if product was extremely pure and potent then still the same, obviously if product is bunk or weak then 2-3 times a year would have barely any effect and repair times more rapid.

Where this whole discussion becomes extremely interesting and difficult is when you try to understand the mechanics of a frequent to heavy user...once again the "everyone is different" algorithm has to somehow be factored in, not easy. I think if someone is a heavy user, long term, then there is obviously going to some health issues.

The single best piece of advice for long term or heavy users, is to be thoroughly educated in the substance. If the individual is very well versed on the effects and how it is metabolized and passed through the body then they are better equipped to form some sort of contingency plan to help alleviate or slow down any of the negative effects of the drug. Obviously with stimulants you are running your engine at a faster pace than normal for an extended and unnatural amount of time...something to also consider is that an individual can be as stimulated naturally, but this generally goes hand in hand with a physical or physiological activity, the body can deal with extreme amounts of adrenaline and endorphin release when it's occurring naturally, one will find that it is for a much shorter period of time and they will be naturally tired and require rest at some point after the event. Stimulants can run your engines flat out for 10 times as long and the person doesn't even have to be doing a single thing, they could actually simply be sitting down staring at a wall.

How do address this and try counteract this unnatural type of stimulation....?

Know your dose, know your drug, dose your drug at smart times, make sure to at least be psychical and actually use up some natural energy...careful not to over do it and become dehydrated and over heat. How does this help someone using study aids, well it doesn't really help much, hopefully the person using for study aids is dosing very carefully and intelligently, is making sure to keep hydrated, eat well and often even if not hungry and attempts to rest when the body is used to resting and not try and play catch up during the day.

I will say also that the mind is a powerful tool against illness, side effects and general negative impact a drug can have on someone, not many can talk them selves out of everything forever though and at some point they will either get off the roundabout and at least spend the rest of their time being relatively healthy or, stay on and take the chance, knowing that decline is inevitable and no one is immune to it.

FWIW some people are actually happier living with their addictions, they simply couldn't live without them so to speak, when happiness is part of the though process, then it's also part of the protection and defense mechanisms....once again this relates to how the mind can attribute certain activities as positive to some people, or can be the persons dramatic and ugly downfall in others.

I met a guy in the UK many years ago who only ever ate one meal a day his whole life...when I quizzed him about this his response was that, he considered that a large part of the human aging process was intrinsically connected to our bodies being the food process mode, eating sends the body into this process mode, uses up a lot of energy, therefore shortens your life a little every time, he went on to say that just breakfast, once eaten can take the whole day for the body to deal with, ending in it's excretion the very next day just prior to the next breakfast, so having the body work continuously processing food was in fact sapping energy and life from him. This was put to me with...did you ever feel tired and need a rest after a large meal...?

food for thought.

[mutant]

I don't know if it was cut or not, I am not talking about 0,5 gr as a single oral dose though... I am talking nose.

Anyways the stuff I was getting in berlin in 2002 was white and at 10 euros a gram. If this thing was cut, I can't imagine how something [a 'pure' form?] can be better.

Only once was it a bit pale, and I felt it was a bit 'dirty' and not so pure stuff that time, but it still worked wonders and this was the only time I had some strange/funny sideeffects after staying up for almost a second day till night [love parade weekend].

From that regular white stuff, 1/4 [gr] was good for a non-so-energetic social situation, 1/2 was enough for 10+ hours of intense dance and sweating and all that, and more than that , like 3/4 was really for lots of hours of speedy buzz, much more than 10+ hours, like I did on the love parade weekend. 3/4 is of course, like all other weights I gave, not an one-go dose of course. 1/2 was speedy as fuck too, more than enough to go and dance at a gabba [= hardcore techno] party like crazy for hours, so go figure. And I am talking about real gabba and very high bpmz, reaching even 200, 220 and over .... neither the happy hardcore thing of the UKs nor the dutch sell-out of rotterdam records and Paul Elstak, and the decline of dutch scene....

anyways, berlin 2002 was a perfect place for a hard tekno and gabba fan.

I never ate it, and I never did the 0,5 all at once. Always sniffed, typically 1/2 gr in 3 sniffs, always along with some beer.

My usual dose was 1/2 , I never did it [only an exception] for days in a row, on the contrary my 30+ times of use have been very spaced.

I have to also say that this class likes me, I mean I even loved ephedrine!

I am pretty aware that some people will go crazy from just a little stuff, that's because speed is not for everyone, most of the people just cannot handle the tension and energy. I fucking love it. But I understand it's not a coincidence speed is considered the devil by many. Amps are certainly linked with psychosis and it's not so strange, people will continue to get mental problems from this stuff and/or fail to communicate with their own body/mind needs....

So, that's how I liked it back then. 0,5 gram in 3 lines, some beer all along. very intense, great times, then back home, endless enthusiastic talks, then cannabis for the chills [legal in berlin, wooohooooo] , maybe some movie, then sleep at noon of the next day.

Next day after the speedy day was like a stay-home day, more cannabis also helping restoring the appetite, lying in bed with the girl and such. Homecat stuff anyways, repeating the speedy thing for a second day never seemed appealing to me - it actually seems obviously harmful [to the body] and worthless, as far as the high would never be nearly as good as the day before - thanks for confirming that.

ANd that's why I am asking about how people do it in other frames of mind, since I usually have my own take with everything... SO it was never for the euphoria alone. The intense speedy/energy part was the best part of it for me - coupled with the empathogen/friendly/talkative/social effects it had on me....

Even if I don't regularly smoke unless drinking lots of booze, smoke yeah was great on this stuff. BUT, I never drank too much. My body was in full accordance and control of the whole situation. Always. Water was drank regularly to make up for water loss from sweating and beer was drank all along, but in very slow intake rate. Note I did not drink water because I had read I should, but because I really felt I needed water in between my intense dancing sessions, especially when talking about d&b or 170 and upwards BPMz.

I will also say I consider 1/2 a gram needless, unless you intend to go and dance / make something really energetic for several hours...

SO what kind of effects do you think one would have from 1/2 of pure shit??

So you still thing the stuff I was getting in berlin was 'not-so-pure' ?

PS: Nice post Chiral

did you ever feel tired and need a rest after a large meal...?

that's natural, it happens to all kinds of people, even people who have never taken drugs. It's strange you ask this...

Edited July 15, 2010 by mutant

[Sonny Jim]

^^^

half a gram of pure methyl amphetamine would be way too much for a single dose/person. 100mg of pure meth is a pretty strong hit for most people even with tolerance.

[Chiral]

European speed is nearly always amphetamine sulfate, not methamphetamine, so half a gram is quite doable in one go. It is quite strong if pure, in a different way to meth though, I used to be able to do a full gram of sulfate in a day no problems, no way in the world would you consider trying to do a half gram of meth in one go, plus the two generally are taken in different routes, one being smoked and the other eaten or snorted.

Some of the European sulfate I found to be incredibly euphoric and long acting, it wasn't for many years later till tried the other and was expecting something 10 times stronger and more powerful yet didn't get that all...the later is incredibly addictive though due to the smoking route..it's very ritual to smoke anything with men I find, where as a powder that is eaten is only done so when need to get high.

If had to choose between the two I'd nearly always lean towards the European sulfate, it's very rarely seen in Australia if at all, most if not all stimulants here are methamphetamine based.

[PD.]

LOL, nuthion like flashin half a g of tha old skool ice, man ya almost fall off ya seat it spins ya that much, ya have to hang on to something. Takes a bit to work up to that amount tho and by that stage ya usually pretty fried.

Yeh, i fried it in a big way.

[mutant]

Thanks a lot Chiral, this is actually a long standing question of mine at last answered. Sounds like the stuff I am familiar with...

Hey, any of you [former or current] speed friends find/even found ephedr ine likable at all?

[ThunderIdeal]

LOL, nuthion like flashin half a g of tha old skool ice, man ya almost fall off ya seat it spins ya that much, ya have to hang on to something. Takes a bit to work up to that amount tho and by that stage ya usually pretty fried.

Yeh, i fried it in a big way.

 

^^^

half a gram of pure methyl amphetamine would be way too much for a single dose/person. 100mg of pure meth is a pretty strong hit for most people even with tolerance.

 

drooooool, i missed the boat on that one, even though most of the people around me were using. maybe it's a very fortunate thing since i was a teenager in those days.

i wonder how one acquires that kind of goodness drooool

hey PD, somebody plussed you. for honesty, or funny language? or for frying it in a big way?

mutant i viewed your message as it's in my thread. even though it's sometimes accurate i'd prefer if words like fiend did not get thrown around. generally speaking i don't think fiendish behavior should be encouraged, glorified or enabled (made to seem acceptable).

sadly the flow of info i'm most keen on seems to have stalled. i might have to do the research myself later but (i'm not sure if you guys know this) it can be SO MUCH MORE REASSURING/BELIEVABLE hearing it from some of you guys. maybe somebody could post it at bluelight or similar and we'll see what else comes up?

is there a quick fix for headaches? i've got a feeling that's one of those more complex issues where one has to find out what's going on in their own body and what works for them.

also i've seen a guide for what to do if you wake up incredibly sick, unable to eat without vomitting. it said something about rinsing your stomach with water (even shaking your belly if you want to help swish it around) and letting it come back up because your stomach needs to get rid of that shit before it will take good food. then there is a particular way to help ensure your stomach accepts the food so you can be on your way to recovery. maybe somebody could offer advice on this matter. i think it happened to me once in the past but i didn't realise what caused it.

Edited July 16, 2010 by ThunderIdeal

[kindness]

is there a quick fix for headaches? i've got a feeling that's one of those more complex issues where one has to find out what's going on in their own body and what works for them.

also i've seen a guide for what to do if you wake up incredibly sick, unable to eat without vomitting. it said something about rinsing your stomach with water (even shaking your belly if you want to help swish it around) and letting it come back up because your stomach needs to get rid of that shit before it will take good food. then there is a particular way to help ensure your stomach accepts the food so you can be on your way to recovery. maybe somebody could offer advice on this matter. i think it happened to me once in the past but i didn't realise what caused it.

 

haven't heard of that one TI... best advice I can offer is sticking your fingers down your throat and spewing your guts up till you can't anymore... then maybe trying to drink some electrolytes... alkaline foods like apples might be good also.

i could say alot about the stuff you guys are all talking about here but I don't really want to get into debate about it. I did my time and learnt my lessons with this one. It's good while you are there and it's not so good when you slowly aren't and wish you still were. I know you don't want to go down the path of psychological stuff with this thread so again I will just add that the best I can suggest is anything that makes you sleep, immediately. Once you have slept then all the other stuff that has been mentioned would be great to restore the mind to functioning order... (oh.. yeah, mind and body... but they go hand in hand don't they? - perhaps thats another discussion)

peace

[ThunderIdeal]

i appreciate your input. that kind of info would actually be great now that you mention the mind/body connection, i just don't plan on including it in the original thread. if you feel like sharing then by all means do.

reinforcing the idea that this stuff is really dangerous is not a bad thing at all, and understanding that idea fits perfectly into the main topic.

electrolytes!! the person i was paraphrasing said he rang the hospital and they advised him to drink water with salt and brown sugar... maybe..? so electrolytes makes sense.

[Alchemica]

Guide to Neurotransmitter depletion

- http://neuroassist.com/Depletion1.htm

- Explains everything about how giving precursors to neurotransmitters depletes other neurotransmitters and how the only way to correct neurotransmitter levels is to take both dopamine and serotonin precursors and not just the one

- also explains how SSRI's cause long term depression and serious depletion of serotonin

magnesium prevents tolerance http://www.dr-bob.or...sgs/858452.html and other stuff

Piracetam

Modulates Serotonin and dopamine receptors, Enhances neurotransmission, Anti Oxidant, and also potentiates all stimulants. Makes your peak feel more clean

3200mg before stimulant and after

Green Tea extracts (EGCG)

Take with 5-htp so that 5-htp gets converted to serotonin in the brain and not in your gut

Deprenyl (Selegiline)

Description: MAO-B inhibitor, not to be mistaken with ordinary MAOI's. it reduces cardiovascular toxicity, inhibits formation of peroxides in the brain. inhibits Dopamine metabolism. it may revive dead neurons in the brain. it may reverse neurotoxicity. It is even said it inhibits neurotoxicity from METH use.

L-Theanine

Glutamate receptor antagonist (AMPA, Kainate, NMDA), Dopamine releaser, Enhances focus, mood, and memory. reduces anxiety and nervousness

Inositol

Regulates serotonin, Calcium Ion concentration control, which means controls build up of tolerance to amphetamines. also increases REM activity during sleep

1000-2000mg a day, usually before sleep.

Methyl Donors (Betaine, aka TMG, aka TriMethylGlycine)

Increased Methylation via Methyl donors have shown to increase neurotransmittor levels, Methylation aids in the production of SAM-e, which is the building block of serotonin, dopamine and noradrealine.

Milk Thistle

Liver protecting supplement

 

All could be of use but then again, stressing your vital organs with a long list of supplements (with no idea how they might interact) on top of a stimulant isn't the best idea.

Piracetam is probably a good one to use (still available in Aus at the moment if you look...), I've heard DMAE is a good, mentally stimulating augmentor (and as t st said, add a choline source - CDP-Choline would be optimal)

Selegiline is S4... until the parkinsonism or cognitive decline from long-term stimulant abuse kicks in, you're unlikely to find a GP who'll script it. The 5mg tabs are strong (especially sublingually, many times more bioavailable) but it's easy to reach saturation where all MAO-B is inhibited and MAO-A is starting to be reversibly inhibited. The liquid "deprenyl citrate" sublingual stuff, where very low doses are taken, would be the way to go if you could get it (overseas).

Milk Thistle seems like it would be safe - maybe get a standardised silymarin tablet.

I'd leave the rest for the recovery if you think they would be helpful.

http://books.google....PA280&lpg=PA280 is worth a read.

sadly the flow of info i'm most keen on seems to have stalled. i might have to do the research myself later but (i'm not sure if you guys know this) it can be SO MUCH MORE REASSURING/BELIEVABLE hearing it from some of you guys. maybe somebody could post it at bluelight or similar and we'll see what else comes up?

What were the main things you were hoping to find answers for?

Deprenyl (Selegiline)

Description: MAO-B inhibitor, not to be mistaken with ordinary MAOI's. it reduces cardiovascular toxicity, inhibits formation of peroxides in the brain. inhibits Dopamine metabolism. it may revive dead neurons in the brain. it may reverse neurotoxicity. It is even said it inhibits neurotoxicity from METH use.

May revive dead neurons?! Generally reviving dead things is difficult let alone a neuron...I would be extremely interested to see the original article where the conclusion was drawn from. Do you happen to have it on hand?

Probably mostly referring to increased NGF, BDNF, and GDNF synthesis: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11162424

Edited July 16, 2010 by Alchemica

[kindness]

For me it's such a fricken horrible thing speed.. I mean, don't get me wrong.. I jammed it into myself enough for a while and really did enjoy it at the time. But afterwards it was always terrible verging on the suicidal! Thoughts were so fragmented and it was hard to get myself to do anything healthy, particularly as the majority of the time that I did that was on my own or with people who were speed addicts, (hence they did not really give a shit about my state of body or mind).

In the end I would wander around where I lived which thankfully was an area with amazing bushland and beautiful views and try to calm myself down that way. I would try and take warm baths, eat valerian or whatever other calminatives I had and generally sleep rather than get more speed and stay awake.

If I had access to something that would put me to sleep at that stage I would have taken full advantage and I think it would have been beneficial!

The only way I found to care for myself after extended binges was to SLEEP and EAT.... oh and all the vitamin suplements mentioned above are great too... my suggestion would be the B group... specially activated B oh and magnesium powder... pump it into you.. then sleep some more... then more vit's and magnesium and sleep.

- make no mistake speed is great and it sucks and it's great and it sucks....

Edited August 18, 2010 by kindness

[ThunderIdeal]

you're worth your weight in pure lsd alchemica. mainly i just wanted some comments on that list, which you've provided.

I'd leave the rest for the recovery if you think they would be helpful.

 

i wouldn't have a clue that's why i'm putting it out there for people who might. i guess you're right about swallowing fifty different pills at once being potentially risky, not to mention a high initial expense. like chiral said it's probably unnecessary for casual users to go to the full extreme anyway, even if somebody had charted it all out.

does EGCG really prevent 5htp from converting in the gut? (not that i think there's any real point taking 5htp in this case? maybe afterwards)

in 2007 import of personal amounts of piracetam (3 months) were no longer allowed without prescription. however in 2008, folks at bluelight were all saying that their bulk imports of piracetam were being opened but still coming through. that isn't to say you won't have any trouble, but there's reason to believe you won't.

Edited July 16, 2010 by ThunderIdeal

[ThunderIdeal]

do you think it's possible for batches to contain considerably different isomer ratios? '.. dextro isomers of both amph and meth are more potent in stimulating behavior than levo isomers'

...

apparently the 4 chlorinated version of amp and met are both powerful serotonergic depleters.