nth korea....

[ThunderIdeal]

interesting. by your estimate what is america trying to achieve, best case scenario?

[Bigred]

was that directed at me

[Rabaelthazar]

Edited April 8, 2013 by Rabaelthazar

[whitewind]

I don't see how this is America's last stand, unless there's a hell of a lot I don't know. I'm not even sure what it would achieve, quite honestly, unless they are desperate to provoke China into conflict, which I'm pretty sure they (China) won't bother with. China just needs to carry on quietly buying up bits of Africa, South America, Australia, and selling our shit back to us, and exporting their citizens to all parts of the globe, and eventually America's economy will just collapse, leaving all the remaining infrastructure in the hands of China. America thinks it is wealthy, but that wealth is in the hands of a few and it's all on paper - worthless. Their main weaponry now is the nuclear arsenal, Mutual Assured Destruction, and it really is game over if they try that.

Quietly, even most of their allies don't support America any more, the war against Iraq showed that very clearly, they now need to show that they are peacekeepers and not in it for the money. The only way forward for this in North Korea is diplomacy as military might will just set of a chain reaction, America to blame. That's why they have been backing down; they can't afford - financially or morally - another war at this stage, certainly not one which will set them back so hard.

Should America go to conflict with China, all the trade routes will dry up and the American citizens will suffer very quickly (not severely, apart from they are used to cheap shit on tap). However, a lot depends on how much China imports in the way of food, and whether these routes can be blocked, but they could quickly stop all export of food and keep it for their own population (I believe they have enough capacity to feed 20% of the world's population, and they themselves have 19%) - which means they could easily feed themselves. This agriculture is disparate too, unlike American agriculture - I'm sure they can also feed themselves - but it would have to come back into state control before it could be distributed properly.

Suffice to say, it's not really in the superpowers best interest to go into all-out conflict with disrupted trade routes so I don't think the NK situation would really trigger anything other than a minor skirmish.

[nothinghead]

what do you mean by US elites?

lockheed martin, the oil companies?

certainly wasn't profitable to the US public budget, the two wars are the reason they are debating austerity now.

Halliburton, for example (which made 17.2 billion out of the Iraq war from 2003-2006 according to MSN), and by extension David Lesar, Dick Cheney, etc. By US elites I mean the standard, obvious definition - those in positions of wealth and power. Obviously not all of them, but the point is that the profits weren't going into the pockets of, say, restaurant cleaners.

The war wasn't profitable to the US budget, and was never supposed to be. Neoconservative economics are not designed to make the distribution of wealth more equitable. Planned wars are a good way to divert revenue into the pockets of those who hold shares in the right companies. In this case the "right" companies are those involved in oil (and related areas - The Washington Group, for ex.), war tech, "security", media...

[SunChaser]

yeah sure they have a lot hardware that can theoretically be deployed in the asian region at short notice but by the time it gets there (if it's allowed to) it will be too little too late.

The US actually have stealth submarines that are aparently impossible to detect, which have long distance nuclear missiles on them and are always ready to launch at anytime they get the order from the president. These stealth submarines are in constant motion and could be in any part of the world at any time.

Unless it’s a case of suicide by US military, then I really don’t see any country starting an actual war with the US at the present time.

Anyway, from my understanding China apparently still hasn’t even developed the technology to use drones yet, which actually surprised me to here.

Edited April 8, 2013 by SunChaser

[Sallubrious]

The US actually have stealth submarines that are aparently impossible to detect, which have long distance nuclear missiles on them and are always ready to launch at anytime they get the order from the president. These stealth submarines are in constant motion and could be in any part of the world at any time.

Unless it’s a case of suicide by US military, then I really don’t see any country starting an actual war with the US at the present time.

Anyway, from my understanding China apparently still hasn’t even developed the technology to use drones yet, which actually surprised me to here.

Here's a story on the conventional drones they have.

Chinese drones

[SunChaser]

^^^There you go. The other night on PBS newshour they were saying china lacked the capabilities to fly drones into US territory, where as the US were more than capable of sending drones into china. Sorry, I paraphrased it into saying they didnt have drones.

[ThunderIdeal]

Here's a story on the conventional drones they have.

Chinese drones

i must sound like a broken record but that article makes it sound like they are counting on a cloud of drones to repel the US navy. i'm just guessing here but when you're on land getting your ass handed to you by an invisible UAV, it's because you aren't carrying any of the things that navies carry: detection systems of every kind, weapons of every kind (including anti-missile), various aircraft with their own detection systems and guns.

remember when a US electronic surveillance craft collided with a chinese fighter and crashed in china? i bet america isn't as cock-sure around potential incidents with china anymore, but still... "you crash one of our super-super-super-high-tech spyplanes, during negotiations you get a little chance to study the gadgets, sure, you demand it be returned in a transport plane because you've already disassembled it with zero hope of reassembly..... but don't expect us to ask for it back nicely, you fucking well give it back, and we'll use it to resume spying on you, we've already gone weeks without intercepting all of your secret transmissions."

[mysubtleascention]

peace -

B with U

.. enforcements

technology !

 

Edited April 11, 2013 by mysubtleascention

[Distracted]

Man if I was North Korea i'd be stockpiling arms like no tomorrow, just check the history of the countries the US has had verbal problems with and asked to disarm lately, North Korea only knows it's a matter of time now.

If the US can get into North Korea they can border China. China really doesn't want that, that's a big reason as to why they've been so friendly to North Korea, they're a nice little buffer.

[whitewind]

It's my contention that mainstream media tends to focus on things like this, because they are obsessed with the capitalist ideal of more sales which forces them to big everything up, backed by politicians who want to be seen to be "doing something".

The biggest crises affecting us are largely ignored, as they involve actually doing something and not just making more money.

e.g. the ongoing financial crisis, and climate change.

Now the newspapers are full of Maggie Thatchers death.

Who gives a flying fuck about that?

[El Presidente Hillbillios]

i have a friend that lives and works in south korea, she says the north korea thing isnt even making news there and it is no diferent to normal.

this whole thing could be just western media hype. i feel we are being played again

[Bigred]

 

[ThunderIdeal]

i have a friend that lives and works in south korea, she says the north korea thing isnt even making news there and it is no diferent to normal.

this whole thing could be just western media hype. i feel we are being played again

nothing unusual about some warlord beating his chest, especially north korea, but actual nukes plus serious threats isn't run-of-the-mill.

gotta wonder about men that are willing to put their name and face on a war, at least in the west everyone is just following orders.

"my people, i am your esteemed leader, you are familiar with the fables, tales, records of my supreme deeds . do me this service, fight and die beside your screaming family, to compensate for my small penis, and small mind. kthxbye"

[incognito]

I love sab <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png mad talk!! I guess none of us really knows for sure, to be honest. we can only truly speculate until something proves itself true.

[glimpse]

I love sab mad talk!! I guess none of us really knows for sure, to be honest. we can only truly speculate until something proves itself true.

sab-Its like the internet....only smarter (mostly, myself excluded)

Edited April 9, 2013 by eatingsand

[El Presidente Hillbillios]

(mostly, myself excluded)

and me

[El Presidente Hillbillios]

I love sab mad talk!! I guess none of us really knows for sure, to be honest. we can only truly speculate until something proves itself true.

Even if something does happen, do we ever really know all the ins and outs of the truth? I mean if there was a nuclear war right now this evening the common person wouldnt ever really know who or why

[Seldom]

what's more powerful than a North Korean nuclear missile ?

.. . a datsun 180b!

Edited April 9, 2013 by self organising systems

[mysubtleascention]

carnally -

god no win

.. heavenly

dragon fire spheres !

Edited April 10, 2013 by mysubtleascention