Bin Laden dead?

[Sallubrious]

I just don't understand how thousands of people can dance and celebrate the murder of a man and his family, I wonder how many people would do the same if it was the president, the pope or even prince william.

Really what is wrong with the human race when we can get pleasure out of killing someone else.

[qualia]

interesting to see the propaganda coming out now..

"osama used wife as human shield!"

"bin laden compound decrepit mess!"

not to mention any muslim cleric speaking out about it is all of a sudden "radical"

people still lapping it up, westerners believing the US governments take on a "respectful islamic burial"

very interesting, to say the least

[rahli]

I'm pretty sure the us gov isn't to concerned about providing evidence to the general public on the death of bin laden. They are more concerned about convincing alquida of his death and dragging off his corps, I'm sure will be evidence enough for them. Bin laden was much to dangerous alive. Dead and gone there can be no negotiations.

Edited May 3, 2011 by rahli

[WoodDragon]

I said to a mate yesterday that they'd make a movie out of it. The ink wasn't even dry before they were on to it.

Frankly, it's sick. The US and the rest of the Western world are supposed to represent justice and due process, and there has been no semblance of this. Killing is only acceptable in a civilised and ordered society if it is for self-defence, and this goes more so for nations and their governments. Yeah, you can understand an individual taking revenge for a serious offence, such as the murder of a loved one, but when countries start on revenge, you end up with situations like the Irish/British Troubles, or the Middle East mess, or any of the African problems, because it's always tit for tat.

All this bullshit that the world is now "safer" is exactly that - bullshit. Bin Laden was not doing anything more these days than acting as a spiritual focus for Al Qaida. And now he's been martyred, which has probably given him more power than he had recently. He's become an Islamic saint in the eyes of the radicals, and there will be a generation of zealots wanting to avenge him, and to die in glory as he has (to them) been reported to have died.

As a strategic move for achieving peace, this was a blunder. Despite any protestations to the contrary, if he was holed up with a handful of others they could all have been taken alive. But then, I doubt that the US wanted real peace - it's far better for control of oil if the Coalition of the Willing has active presence in the Middle East, and as an added bonus the attack is almost certainly a guarantee that Obama will win the election next year.

And it creates more business for the military. It also has a side benefit, in some ways, of keeping Israel on top and Palestine being ever more pushed into a mere footnote in the history books.

I remember when the "War on Terror" first started, and we (Australia) were supposed to be along for the ride only to get Bin Laden. Now they're saying "oh yes, he was the baddie, and we're safer now (but actually we're still on the same footing and we can't be complacent so we still have to occupy foreign countries and kill more people)" which sounds like nothing's being 'won' at all.

What's the tally?

1) Iraq invaded, demolished, probably a million or more dead, 5 million displaced, the most significant archeology in relation to the birth of civilisation lost/destroyed, a country of previously Western-loving people now despising the invasion, and tens of thousands of Islamic and secular zealots created where non existed before. And Al Quaida had nothing to do with Iraq, Saddam (A US ally almost up to the very end) had no WMD, and any half-intelligent person could see this from so much expert commentary prior to the invasion that "oopsie" afterward doesn't cut it.

2) Afghanistan similarly trashed, and Al Qaida recruiting richly from the remains, when the country was previously only an internal human rights violator because of the actions of the Taliban.

3) The Taliban pushed into Pakistan, a basket case split by its puppet government's approval of a strong, increased US presence within the country - which happens to have The Bomb...

4) Al Qaida now in the Middle East, the Near East, the Far East, and apparently in Africa.

5) The world is now a more harminious place, and everyone holds hands and wears daisy chains.

[Oops, silly me...]

5) The world is more strife-ridden than ever, with more zealotry having been whipped up and more people seeking the revenge that we despise in others but that we seem to relish for ourselves.

Westerners were sickened when Muslims danced in the streets after the Trade Centre was destroyed. In many of the radical Muslims' eyes Westerners chanting in the streets yesterday is exactly the same thing... are we Whities so out of touch with 80% of humanity that we can't see why it is that they resent us so much?

The problem for us is that the Muslim world is far more populous that the Western world, and it contains a significant number of extremists who are ready to die for their cause, and to wait for generations if need be to see it fulfilled. A day will come when the West can no longer maintain its jackboot on the throat of the rest of the world - the oil will run out, or the financial system will buckle sooner or later, and then when we're stuck like flies in honey trying to extricate ourselves from a new and serious difficulty they'll just pop on over and settle the score.

Sun Tzu said:

So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.

If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.

If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.

It appears that the West thinks that "knowing" means having 'intelligence', but too many in the military establishment seem to be ignorant of, or take for granted, the psychology and the culture of those they invade.

Master Sun also said:

Never will those who wage war tire of deception.

I will force the enemy to take our strength for weakness, and our weakness for strength, and thus will turn his strength into weakness.

We in the West are great at deception, but not (it seems) in the context of understanding the 'enemy' or how the 'enemy' will disguise their capacity to eventually return the fight. Oh, I'm sure that there are many in the senior military who do, but our decisions are made by politicians and corporations who don't seem to be able to see past their next elections and their dividends.

I have no love for terrorism. Frankly, I'd like to see radicalism and despotism absent from the planet, but what we're doing now seems calculated to do the opposite. And really, if we're so concerned about the welfare of people in other countries (as was claimed for Iraq and Afghanistan as a back-up excuse), why aren't we kicking seven colours of snot out of Mugabe, the junta in Burma, North Korea, or any of dozens of other nations around the world that are breaking the human rights of their citizens?

We're hypocrits and bullies, and the rest of the world knows this, even if we won't admit it to ourselves.

Sooner or later they'll pay us back.

[rahli]

Moralities on his retrieval aside I can understand why he was killed and his body disposed of once they had him. If he was alive or dead and remained in possession of the us there most likely would be lines of abducted westerners getting beheaded on the news for the next few months until he was returned.

Might be hitting a news channel near you either way as I doubt they will take this lying down.

[synchromesh]

Don't know if I'm just young and stupid (never known when to shut my mouth) but when I look at Gillard and Abbott, I see two children bickering over a stuffed toy (in the resemblance of our future). I haven't heard a realistic idea, let alone a good one, come out of either of their mouths yet, neither are suited to leadership.

 

You've got that right! Gillard is a red-headed parrot surrounded by birdseed (a repeater which can't believe her luck), and Abbott... well, Abbott's just a nutbar!

Glad I'm not the only one to think so. People over here have been setting off fireworks, cheering, and having parties.

Creeps me the hell out, man.

 

They don't call you guys the most optimistic people on the planet for nothing... What I want to know is what some of these knuckleheads have to say about the fake photo...

fuck me it just gets dumber and dumber...

 

If it goes ahead, I highly doubt that they will change the story. I mean, have you seen The Hurt Locker? It's not exactly pro-nationalism or pro-war...

I come back after a few days of media blackout... and Osama is dead, and has been buried already... And there's no evidence to prove any of it!?

WTF. They're not even trying to cover up their lies these days.

 

It's weird, isn't it? Surely they're not this reckless or stupid... Then again, that's what a lot of power does to you I guess...

I'm pretty sure the us gov isn't to concerned about providing evidence to the general public on the death of bin laden. They are more concerned about convincing alquida of his death and dragging off his corps, I'm sure will be evidence enough for them. Bin laden was much to dangerous alive. Dead and gone there can be no negotiations.

 

What are you talking about?

 

 

 

 

[rahli]

I guess we'll just have to wait for Al qaedas' response to the media. It might give some indication of the recent happenings.

Whether he died years ago or just recent, the us have now got their moneys worth and I doubt Osama is going to raise his head to state otherwise.

If al Qaeda has been pretending bin laden has been alive all these years, what is to stop them continuing the lie now? They are losing the support of the common people in the region and I'm guessing they will wait to see how it play out on the streets before they make their statement.

[Hendry]

FUCK YEAH! CUNTZ FUCKED!

http://youtu.be/8EcNP5xd-0k

Helmet camera footage must exist. Hopefully this will be made public.

strange vid from the 1980's about Seal team 6 base security testing controversy (they waterboarded "hostages"during naval base security exercises and got a lil carried away pretending to be terrorists).

[synchromesh]

I guess we'll just have to wait for Al qaedas' response to the media. It might give some indication of the recent happenings.

Wait for some more Jewish actors you mean? WAKE UP!

FUCK YEAH! CUNTZ FUCKED!

 

Looks like you both have something in common then.

Edited May 3, 2011 by synchromesh

[mescalito]

What can I say that hasn't been said.....I know I was online searching for waht was really going on when some bloody stupid wedding was on!

The lighter side

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dri09dM348&feature=player_embedded

If you want PEACE and some form of a Rational World for your kids to grow up in regardless of who they are or what they want to be and live free,then now's the time.....not so light,but possible.

 

 

Like him or not this man's dead right.

DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE.MAKE CHANGE.START NOW!

@Botanika: Yeah,turn that shit box off and start planting food crops to support yourselves,things change so fast in this world right now and survival skills/self-sufficiency can ultimately slow down the gears...not to mention we regain some control instead of relying on plastic wrapped shit some call food....it's a start.

[Slybacon]

These people certainly like their numbers...

 

Numbers are all part of their rituals.

Are those photos really what is being claimed to be him. Surely not

Edited May 3, 2011 by Slybacon

[Bush Turkey]

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/breaking-news/pakistani-neighbour-of-bin-laden-arrested/story-e6frg12u-1226049414028

neighbor arrested

Edited May 3, 2011 by B_T

[rahli]

OK synchromesh I'm ready to hear the truth. So was it -

A. He died in december 2001 of lung complications.

B. He got killed by a Pakistani rescue team last week.

C. He was still alive a a time to maintain relevance of a nuclear threat against the west if assassinated, as informed by a wiki leak (last year?).

They can't all be true can they? Or are you just trying to confuse me again?

[synchromesh]

Sorry, but last time I checked, I wasn't the people who keep changing the story...

A

Edited May 3, 2011 by synchromesh

[Gunter]

sometimes making a martyr can work against you

[mescalito]

That may very well be the point

[botanika]

As zeitgeist called out: 'the real terrorists of this world wear $5000 suits'

[mescalito]

And the man who knew where he was wore blue overall's and worked in a Hospital.

Jan Itor

 

 

[Sheather]

The Janitor has always been right :D I swear he is the best character in that series. I believe many of his lines are improvised too.

[WoodDragon]

So, he was unarmed.

And needed two shots in the head.

Sorry, but this is not the action of a country looking for justice. Why not taser him, cuff him, and put him on trial? Isn't the US government supposed to be all for everyone's right to a day in court?

Or are their navy 'seals' so inept that they can't figure out if a person is unarmed, and taser him instead of blowing his brains out?

People here know that I'm not the biggest fan of conspiracy theories, but I reckon that the US gubbermint was either trying to hide something (chucking him in the drink before he's even cold is even more suss), or they wanted him dead specifically for the benefits it would bring - including an approving public at home, and a disapproving public in Islamic countries.

If so, this makes the US's polictical system morally bankrupt, and nothing to boast about as they themselves so enjoy doing. Australia's governments are no better - again, referring to that demonstration in Sydney's Hyde Park in 2003, one of my favourite props at the rally was a giant figure of George W. Bush being towed around*, with a smaller one of John Howard as a dog, whose nose kept bumping into Dubbya's arse.

Says it all.

[*If anyone can post a photo of that it would be most cool.]

[dworx]

and now Obama wants to look at Pakistan..........................

War funds.... weapon sales............. up

[botanika]

and now Obama wants to look at Pakistan..........................

War funds.... weapon sales............. up

 

That's right killing is big business. It has nothing to do with freedom or safety and everything to do with profit. We could be living in a resource based highly technological society but we are unfortunately enslaved into a monetary society of deceit and debit. It's unsustainable in the long run - I'm hopeful things will change but we'll have to endure 'more of the same' for a long time to come...unless a big comet hits the earth soon or yellowstone erupts...

[botanika]

Australia's governments are no better - again, referring to that demonstration in Sydney's Hyde Park in 2003, one of my favourite props at the rally was a giant figure of George W. Bush being towed around*, with a smaller one of John Howard as a dog, whose nose kept bumping into Dubbya's arse.

Says it all.

[*If anyone can post a photo of that it would be most cool.]

 

Here ya go mate...although it's in Canberra.

Edited May 4, 2011 by botanika

[Magicdirt]

Is an unauthorised (by Pakistan) state sanctioned (by the the US) hit on foreign soil an act of war ?

[WoodDragon]

Heh.

Anybody watching the ABC news atm?

Jeffry Robinson and a heap of others are saying that shooting OBL was stupid and hypocritical. They obviously know how this will go in the non-western world.

I have a strong feeling that this will bring down some big payback on Western interests.