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Creating an Outdoor Patch for Woodlovers or Subs

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Zed how did your patch go this year?

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On 26/05/2016 at 10:27 AM, Jai said:

Zed how did your patch go this year?

LOTS of mycelium in the bed but no fruits yet. Hasn't been quite cold enough where this bed is located yet. Hopefully in the next few weeks it'll pop as it's just gotten very wet and cold over the last 10 days or so. The wild season has only really just started properly over here in SA too. 

 

I will update in here if there's anything interesting to update people with. 

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I was thinking of watering some gypsum into my beds to encourage fruit, anyone with more experience know if this has merit or not?

My beds have been a bit dry recently due to the weather up here, and I've been working long hours during the week so I've not been watering them. Hopefully they'll produce this winter.

I've been waiting nearly 18 months.

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Yeah, I red somewhere that gypsum can bring on a good flush. 

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May want to be careful adding anything to a sub patch at this stage, in spring sure, though altering the patch at fruiting time may be detrimental. Ruffling up/disturbing the surface of a section of the patch may encourage some fruiting action with outdoor cold weather wood loving species.

ive found that a new patch needs to be at least 2 years old before a decent flush occurs, takes this long for the substrate to be fully colonised. After the second year of fruiting a patch usually needs to be fed again with more substrate to repeat decent flushes, again this will take another year to colonise, depending what quantity of substrate is added

gypsum is used in monotubs and outdoor grows of cubes to encourage prolific flushes, sometimes used in pan and stone producing cakes as well.

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A "bit of rain" has done wonders...

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On 27/05/2016 at 8:32 PM, theuserformallyknownasd00d said:

Do it on 1/4 the patch!

I watered a couple of sections with some ecoflow gypsum today, so I'll report if those sections produce noticeably more than the other sections. 

My beds are all local hardwood chips, there was a massive storm last year and literally hundreds of trees came down. They all got mulched into a big pile and I helped myself.

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Looking good guys, :)

Edited by Etho

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I've noticed that most of the fruit bodies like to pop up around the edges of the patch, maybe the impenetrable barrier sends a signal "end of the line, everyone out" and that prompts them?

Anyway, I'm going to add more large rocks and half submerged pieces of logs to try to make use of this, I guess I'll know next year if it's worthwhile.

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I have a feeling G that these areas are just holding more moisture (microclimate) hence the fruit bodies. The wild ones down here grow up and close the plants/debris and generally not in the open. 

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Acacia and caapi mulch, thanks to Horus for the tip.

They're coming up everywhere.

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On 6/11/2017 at 3:41 PM, Glaukus said:

Acacia and caapi mulch, thanks to Horus for the tip.

They're coming up everywhere.

Yeah, no worries, Id be interested to know if you think the effects are enhanced or changed by the vine.

And that will be 5% yield consultant tax. :)

Edited by Horus
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I've heard interesting whispers, that certain fungus myc can actually convert tryptamines into more 4-PO-DMT (Psilocybin).
The closer the tryptamine is to 4-PO-DMT, the easier it is converted. So to feed them acacia containing nn-DMT, which is VERY close to 4-PO-DMT is theoretically one of the best ways to increase desirable alkaloids.
I can't quote or provide any direct links to any info that backs this up, its just bits and pieces I've picked up over the years... Bloody fascinating though.

You're living the dream Glaukus - good on you brother!

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Yes, Shulgin himself talks about how psilocybin mushrooms are essentially 4-hydroxilase machines for other tryptamines in the 4-HO-DET page of Tihkal (https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal16.shtml)

 

He says that they naturally convert DMT to Psilocin (4-HO-DMT), but that if you supplement them with DET for example, they will produce 4-HO-DET. Sasha puts it much better than I ever could:

 

"Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in, you would get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it came across. "

 

It's fascinating and I know some people at a famous mycology forum did some experiments with it, this thread has a compilation of great links related to this subject: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-464600.html

 

Edited by MeanGreen
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"Some fascinating studies have been done in Germany where the metabolically active mycelium of some Psilocybe species have been administered diethyltryptamine as a potential diet component. Normally, this mushroom species dutifully converts N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) to psilocin, by introducing a 4-hydroxyl group into the molecule by something that is probably called an indole 4-hydroxylase by the biochemists. You put DMT in, and you get 4-hydroxy-DMT out, and this is psilocin. Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in, you would get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it came across. It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET) a potent drug also not known in nature. This is the title drug of this commentary. What a beautiful burr to thrust into the natural versus synthetic controversy. If a plant (a mushroom mycelium in this case) is given a man-made chemical, and this plant converts it, using its natural capabilities, into a product that had never before been known in nature, is that product natural? What is natural? This is the stuff of many long and pointless essays."




^ DIRECTLY cut and pasted from  @MeanGreen 's link

A B S O L U T E L Y          F U C K I N G           F A S C I N A T I N G ! ! !


EDIT: Shrooms are like a little machine that convert man made chemicals into (never before seen in nature) semi synthetic tryptamines (depending on whats being fed to them).
         These things really are alien seeds man - an intelligent entity from other planes.

Edited by Skellum
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Yeah exactly Skellum, and I'm with you on the alien thing.

I'm sure most of you know this but Terence McKenna also used to talk about a similar subject in his argument that mushrooms are self-replicating probes created by an intelligent lifeform from outer space.

He talked about the fact that Psilocybin is the only 4-phosphorylated indole molecule known on planet earth, which sounds pretty alien considered there are probably several hundred different indoles found in nature.

 

Here's the excerpt of the talk I'm thinking of:

 

 

And he didn't make this point but I'd add that the fact that Psilocybin (4-PO-DMT) essentially turns into Psilocin (4-HO-DMT) under hydrolysis or in the human body, and the fact that mushrooms 4-hydroxylate any tryptamines could be related. Kind of a way for them to simultaneously analyse the fauna of the planets they landed in, make themselves known and phone home through the minds of said creatures by launching them into hyperspace.

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Your most recent posts are blowing my mind MeanGreen, absolute gold mate. Thank you for sharing.

McKenna is brilliant!

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Found the German paper referred to in TiHKAL, here's the results & discussion.

They don't discuss their method in any detail, but do refer to "submerged cultures of P. cubensis" - I'm not sure if they're talking about liquid media, or whether this just means they soaked their cakes in solutions of the precursors - probably the latter?

 

A biosynthetic sequence from tryptophan to psilocybin. Agurell S, Nilsson JL. (1968)

 

Quote

The results (Table, below) show that 4-OH-tryptophan in contrast to tryptophan does not function as a precursor. Tryptamine which is readily formed from tryptophan by P. cubensis serves as a better precursor of psilocybin than tryptophan. N-Methyltryptamine is a still better progenitor of psilocybin but N,N-dimethyltryptamine is rather poorly incorporated as judged from the dilution figures. However, if the poor absorption of this compound by the fungus (less than 5%) is taken into account, the high dilution factor does not make it an unlikely intermediate. Psilocin is effectively converted into psilocybin. 4_Hydroxytryptamine-Cl4 is also incorporated into psilocybin but the introduction of this compound led to the formation of one or two other minor products not normally detectable in the cultures. Thus, it may be questioned if this route via 4-hydroxytryptamine is normally occurring in the fungus.

 
Incorporation of labelled Precursors into Psilocybin
precursor introduced       "Dilution"(Spec. activity of precursor/ spec. activity of psilocybin)
L-Tryptophan-Ii3             132
Tryptamine-Cl4               33
N-Methyltryptamine-H3        2
N,N-Dimethyltryptamine-C14   31
Psilocin-H3                  6
DL-4-OH-Tryptophan-H3       >500
 

 

Edited by Anodyne
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5 hours ago, Anodyne said:

The results (Table, below) show that 4-OH-tryptophan in contrast to tryptophan does not function as a precursor. Tryptamine which is readily formed from tryptophan by P. cubensis serves as a better precursor of psilocybin than tryptophan. N-Methyltryptamine is a still better progenitor of psilocybin but N,N-dimethyltryptamine is rather poorly incorporated as judged from the dilution figures. However, if the poor absorption of this compound by the fungus (less than 5%) is taken into account, the high dilution factor does not make it an unlikely intermediate. Psilocin is effectively converted into psilocybin. 4_Hydroxytryptamine-Cl4 is also incorporated into psilocybin but the introduction of this compound led to the formation of one or two other minor products not normally detectable in the cultures. Thus, it may be questioned if this route via 4-hydroxytryptamine is normally occurring in the fungus.


 ^I don't know if I'm entirely absorbing this information correctly. But what I can garner so far is that  'Tryptophan'  is the ideal additive,
  even more effective than N,N-dimethyltryptamine (which is in in fact less effective than people think).

  Am I correct in what I think I have absorbed from this paragraph  @Anodyne ?  And if so, where does one obtain tryptophan?
  Is it in some kind of supplements that one can obtain from a health food store? Is tryptophan readily available like  Melatonin  sleeping aids are - or 5HTP supplements?

Thanks for sharing mate, I'm loving this thread!

Edited by Skellum
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