Teo's Off Topic Talk- Trolls post here

[Teotzlcoatl]

They ain't going to ban you man

I've been a very naughty Teo who has been given many chances.

Hopefully Torsten will be nice and let me stay! I really do love this place!

I personally don't think my response to Mutant was ban-worthy... but I'm not the boss!

If I do get banned and anybody misses me you can always email me at [email protected]!

[apothecary]

mother fucker I FOUND White Peyote!

Shit Teotz, from what I recall (and I recall exactly) all you found was an old reference on wikipedia and then paid money for seeds labelled "White Peyote". As for "True Blue" peruvianus, I'm not really sure what's so hard about inventing a strain name based on a few random pictures on the net and then deciding whatever plant suits your definition is a part of that strain (so far having seen several genetically different plants which you have empirically decided are all "True Blue")?

But if you found it (motherfucker) then we better show some respect, huh?

[Rabelais]

I say...

I was a lurker here for a while before signing up, even back then I noticed a little tension towards Teotz'

I don't know, I enjoy the lists...they are good for beginner laymen such as myself who sometimes gets overwhelmed with some of the posts by more...savvy members. No doubt I have missed a lot of the hub-bub, but I enjoy Teotz's posts and hope this avatar does not get banned (brings things down to level I can understand - no offense)

- Coop

[Torsten]

Teotz is hovering between suspended and banned, so he won't be replying for the foreseeable future. The suspension was going to be for the insults in this thread, but in the meantime it appears he has also been abusing someone privately via PM for crap that has nothing to do with this forum.

I know it seems I am giving teotz endless chances, but I have my reasons for doing so. There are extenuating circumstances which I doubt anyone else here could invoke. But there have to be limits and teotz was offered a deal recently that would have benefited everyone, but which he shrugged off not just once, but THREE times.

So the way I see it he is going to have a long cooling off period and then we'll see under what conditions he can participate here to a limited extent. One way or the other this is definitely the end of the noise.

[gilligan]

I know it seems I am giving teotz endless chances, but I have my reasons for doing so. There are extenuating circumstances which I doubt anyone else here could invoke.

? extenuating circumstances?

He/she/it is from a mental institution and you felt sorry for he/she/it?

was abducted by anliens searching for new entheogens and anally penetrated and you felt sorry for he/she/it?

gave you a really good internet blowie?

really is the reincarnation of teotzacotl?

is being groomed as your sidekick, and together you are going to take over the world?

we'll prob never know, but that quote just opens a world of possibilities And i like conspiracy theories

Oh - and Teotz, 'Analyzation' is not a word - analysis is what you were chasing when you were cap in hand earlier...

[Gunter]

I wish he were more stable.

[Chiral]

Teotz = an internet enigma.

H.

[Torsten]

gilligan - the alien anal probing circumstances are quite likely, but other than that I am not giving more detail

[Uncle. S]

Mask? That's the same as saying 'towel head'. Not very nice at all

edit: Woops didnt see this second page

[gilligan]

i think apo was just giving teotz back what he'd dished up a few posts earlier...

Anyway, how about we let sleeping (or banned) Teotz's lie, and see what a world without Teotz is. who knows, we might even miss him...

[Torsten]

hmm, no need start calling people names is there? Teo just got banned for this (amongst other things I know).

Even if you feel respect is not deserved by certain people isn't it better to lead by example and behave with integrity?

apothecary quoted teotz back to him in the most obvious way [ie superfluously]. teotz doesn't respond to being told off, so quoting him back is the best way to show him how inappropriate his statements can be.

[Chiral]

I should know better by now than to say to much... but I can't help feel that there has been some ethnic cleansing around here lately through pressure from other members. No disrespect to you Torsten, it's your site you can do what the fuck you want with it anytime, but can people see the blatant irony here....in one hand we are all talking about being repressed by drug laws and freedoms etc and in the other we are saying we don't want the likes of Baph and Teotz here disturbing the peace...FFS, if you aren't mature enough to ignore it then I really don't know what to think anymore. We are no worse than politicians forming new laws for the saftey of the greater comunity. It's all a bit cotton wooly now isn't it...is everyone happy now that two colouful people are no longer here. For everyones info when ever Baph or Teo make threads or posts, the traffic through them is remarkably high... for people who say they are crap threads, of no value or don't have time for them, there is was an extraordinary amount of traffic, and plenty abuse being hurled out from the sidelines, most returning to darkness and protection of their PC's. I will miss them both now actually, and think it will be a little less colouful without them. I guess a lot of people will be happy when this place has a conservative right wing manner about it..pppfffttt. Trolling and inane posts and questions aside, they were regular inputting members who have now been silenced...I'd rather read some of baphs insights into world affairs than have a hundred non inputting lurkers. People like Teo and Baph are the colour and chaos that sometimes help shape a more understanding environment. I bet if you met Teo or Baph in real life you would find that they are probably half decent characters, you would probably leave all the negative vibes at home and make an effort to understand and communicate on a mature and understanding level.

RIP... Teo and Baph...sorry you guys couldn't continue to have your say around here.

I expect to get flamed heavily for this post but water off a ducks back with me I tell ya.

H.

[Torsten]

Two completely different people and reasons for banning. With baph it was a social engineering game. he knew it, I knew it, but most others bought into it. I don't mind people with extreme views, but we don't need members here who's only mission is to see how far they can bend the rules before they break or before they can cause a few valuable members to leave. For every baph we lose about 10 good members and it is those members who keep the forums going, not the baphs of this world. I am not interested in having people here who don't have an interest in community building.

Teotz is a completely different story. I didn't even become aware of teotz's somewhat racist views until the other week - probably because I was too busy cleaning up his shit all the time. Teotz got a longer bit of rope than baph simply because he is a contributing member. He actually tries to contribute even though his style is often not appreciated. Teotz did not get banned because of racism or his attitudes. he got banned because he specifically breached rules he has breached before and which saw him here on borrowed time.

Hunab, if you don't like this forum then please leave. I presume you are here because it is an informative place where knowledgable people hang out ebcause it has a low noise ratio in comparison to many other forums. You can't on one had want a high quality content forum and on the other hand run a troll zoo. But don't worry, I am not taking your comments too seriously. Everytime someone gets booted there'll be the odd comment of eliminating enemies, ethnic cleansing, or whatever else might be flavour of the day. After 10 years and quite a few upheavals on this forum the one thing I have learnt is that the big complainers are usually quite new and are rarely of the calibre that actually attracts people to this place. I can't please everyone, but I can happily live with my decisions because I make them carefully and considered.

----

edit:

Just re read your post and realised you are accusing us of becoming "conservative, right wing and proper". I am not sure if you know the definitions of these terms, cos saying so makes little sense in regards to booting teotz and baph. Baph was one of the most outspoken right wingers on this forum, and teotz isn't that far behind [although he gets credit points for US media brainwashing]. I myself am green-left, so find your accusation a little funny, insulting, or maybe just ignorant.

As for meeting these guys in real life, I am not sure what you're getting at. While baph and I don't share anyting in particular, I have plant related dealings with him outside of this place. And in regards to teotz, I am staying in email contact with him and would regard him as a friend. That doesn't mean I have to expose the forums to him though. So, this is obviously not about my personal views or relationships, but rather about the quality fo the forums.

[Chiral]

I edited my post because the spelling and sentence structure was appalling, it did not make a lot of sense and was extremely badly worded. Yeah I do hang around here for the information and have developed quite a lot just from being hear for the last year. I just thought it was worth pointing out my view about censoring people and how we make hasty decisions and attack others. I'm not crash hot with words so I found it hard to verbalize what I meant. I think I said it in my post that I am not disrespecting you Torsten, but I did get a feeling that a lot of members may have been complaining to you via PM about our two lovable larakins. the part about this place becoming right wingy, well I just used that as way to say that if we are not careful we could end up becoming so elitist and clicky that it would feel like the Thatcher years were coming back. Myself personally, I don't have a political standing of any persuasion, I believe that no matter what good intentions of members of parliament have, they are human and are all vulnerable to corruption and greed firstly, and too tied up in bureaucracy and Hierarchy second. In now way did I insinuate that you are right wing...I'm not that silly. I've learned over the years to become more accepting of people, and give them a chance instead of shooting them down at every opportunity to inflate my own ego. Looking at this situation from both sides is my way of seeing it more rationally. I won't be going anywhere soon as there is way to much cool info to absorb, plus I'm tied to my computer for the next 6 months in an attempt to finish this book, judging by how many times I have to re correct myself...I may need more than that.

H.

[Gunter]

I'd like to note that Teotz has been banned from many forums,

if you make a comparison to tolerance:

SAB was clearly and hands down the most tolerant of all the sites involved that I know of.

That speaks volumes.

Torsten is very conscientious and right minded so far as I can tell.

He is known for his tolerance and open mindedness.

[Torsten]

I just thought it was worth pointing out my view about censoring people and how we make hasty decisions and attack others.

I hate censorship, but this is primarily an ethnobotany forum, so if a member uses this place as a platform to promote racist views WITHOUT actually contributing to the plant discussion then I really don't see how he is much of an assett for this community. And no, we are not aiming for a nice homogenous society here, but I do feel we need to set certain limits to make this place comfortable, pleasant, and AT TIMES confronting and challenging.

I did get a feeling that a lot of members may have been complaining to you via PM about our two lovable larakins.

I have to be careful how I phrase this because it is VERY important that poeple use the 'report post' function or to PM me/mods if they are concerned about a thread or post. However, just because a post has been reported doesn't mean the poster is any closer to getting banned. A lot of posts just need clarification or a small edit to fall within the rules and to keep things fair. So, while reports and complaints will allow me to pay more focussed attention to that one person, it doesn't mean that person is going to get banned. Banning and warning points are a managment issue of last resort, with diplomacy and understanding always leading the way.

In the case of baph, most reports and complaints were justified in terms of the reporter's disgust at Baph's stance on some issues, however, they were mostly not justified in terms of breaking the rules. There is a big difference between alluding to racism and actually making racist statements. But then again with Baph it was all about playing the game, not about convincing us. I wouldn't be surprised if Baph isn't even a racist and this was all just a social engineering experiment for him.

With Teotz it was all different. Teotz arrived here with lots of baggage and a style that rubbed peopel up the wrong way. But despite all the complaints, most his haters actually learnt to tolerate him or even befriended him as he improved. The problem is that the baggage kept following him around and got him into frustrating situations where he lost his cool. That's when he made big mistakes. he can't use the threads and the PM system here at these forums to abuse people for crap that went on elsewhere. he was warned about thats several times.

I still believe that teotz will be a valued contributing member in years to come, which is why i am hesitant to shut the door on him completely. On the other hand I also can't let him continue the way he has. Some of his issues will mellow with age and maturity, so a little time out for everyone is not going to be a bad thing.

the part about this place becoming right wingy, well I just used that as way to say that if we are not careful we could end up becoming so elitist and clicky that it would feel like the Thatcher years were coming back.

Shudder! It's a fine line between being elitist and maintaining a high standard. I try to guide the forums to be the latter without being the former. That means, we want the info to be accessible to everyone, however the main aim has to be quality. This means that it is important noobs learn about UTSE as soon as they arrive here so that they can source their own info of the common stuff, but also have full access to braintrust here for the more difficult things. Bottom line is that the brains leave when the forum is 90% repeat discussion of noob material. So, the challenge is to stop boring noob questions while not making the noob feel unwelcome. I think you had some personal experience in your early days of the tough love approach we sometimes have to take to achieve this ;)

Myself personally, I don't have a political standing of any persuasion, I believe that no matter what good intentions of members of parliament have, they are human and are all vulnerable to corruption and greed firstly, and too tied up in bureaucracy and Hierarchy second.

I was more thinking in terms of philosophical leanings rather than political. I can't vote anyway, so my political involvement is limited. But that doesn't mean that such ideals can't be promoted.

In now way did I insinuate that you are right wing...I'm not that silly.

I've learned over the years to become more accepting of people, and give them a chance instead of shooting them down at every opportunity to inflate my own ego.

yeah, me too. I used to literally grind my teeth when reading baph's posts, that's how much they annoyed me, but then I'd have to go and defend his right to have that position and even warn people to stop abusing him. ie, I had to defend baph against the people I agreed with. That's really hard for someone with strong convictions! Some people here even think that I am a racist myself because i allowed Baph to go as far as he did and defended the way he did it. But you know, Baph brought up some really important issues that need to be discussed, if only to prevent such ideas from spreading unchallenged. Just look at the current controversy around the new US High Court Justice Sotomayor in regards to the judicial mess caused by 'affirmative action'.

If it's any consolation, there will be other baphs and other teotzs. There always are. You just happen to have come at a relatively quiet time in the life of this forum

[t st tantra]

some confusion caused by using 'teo' as tag for teotz.....teo is another long term member.

thats partly why i suggested 'otz'......

t s t .

[Thelema]

I'm happy to see 'otz go, frankly. Some of the PMs he sent me were apalling. And then he had the gall to add me to his 'friends' list. I would really love to see what he has that is so special so that Torsten keeps in regular email contact ...but then again, maybe not. These sorts of people have a knack of creating a mysterious persona that just ends up being crapola. Not good spirit, no matter what else it may have to offer.

And fuck, it's not that hard to walk the line between getting banned and being noteworthy, you'd have to be a real tool to stuff that up-I know, I did it for years!

[Yeti101]

And fuck, it's not that hard to walk the line between getting banned and being noteworthy, you'd have to be a real tool to stuff that up-I know, I did it for years!

I tried to explain this to teotz' - Notoriety (by which I mean being notorious and not in a good way) does not equal respect.

Edit: Clarity?

[rahli]

Respect to you Torsten. A true integral practitioner!

[planthelper]

i miss teotz already.

teotz, who discovered the wheel for us and gave us bow and arrow, apart from oz wher he gave us the boomerang.

without teotz there would be no blue pedros and no albino lophs.

what i find funny is that for me, teotz and the people behind this said to be new salvia strain, in many ways have the same character traits. well maybe not so much, but teotz is driven by having to say,

"new rare salvia strain double strengh".

than teotz let's the imagination do everything for him and at the end is upset if realety and fantasy don't seem to match up.

it sounds to me like a hair shampoo commercial,

30% more shine and a new double strengh glow formula.

it's the dream which get's sold with a product and not the product, and this story that comes with the product is alive in pretty much everything we buy and live with.

the coca cola ad says you will dance around like crazy with beautyfull people, if you got coca cola, but for sure it's not like this anymore since the coca was removed, haha.

anyway i don't think, there is any need for this type of approach in the ethno world.

and definately the parametres are wrong, we don't need a stronger salvia, what we would need is a less fuzzy to grow salvia.

but sure we are all so brainwashed already and even i would rather click onto where it says,

new salvia super hybreed 3 x potency, than

mabye this new salvia hybreed is easier to cultivate.

but this hype ought to have no place in ethnobotany,

because hypes are good to fill your brain with imaginary things,

but hardly good for researching the properties of plant herbs and this is what this forum is all about.

[mutant]

Wow, it did advance quickly! And, to my astonishment, I think I miss him too ~ well, partly because there's no point now in me replying to that hillarious full of childish insults post he made adressing to me, obviously infuriated by my continuous denial of his supposed contribution to the community...

Well let's make some obvious things clear. This forum offers great info and little noise. People here are also interesting and open-minded and the tolerance for annoyance/different point of view is also bigger here, despite the good signal to noise ratio. This is an archievement alone! I am not really reading all forums in here, but this is the only forum so far I have seen nice discussions about the negative effects and dangers of psychedelics - it's a somewhat taboo subject everywhere - or am I to blame for the tone I sometimes bring to it?

It seems that Torsten doesn't seem to agree with this, but I always regarded OTZ 'contribution' very very noisy, actually indicative of what I hate in the community: superficiality, hypes, easy solutions [not the common ignorance , mind you, which I try to fight, but I don't hate]. These 2-3 years I am more into ethnobotanicals etc than I was ever before interested in psychoactives, and I formed a more specific attitude towards how these substances should be used and talked about, because clearly, IMO, lots of people fall into the same mistakes over and over, and I don't only mean the average joe who is the common natural idiot wanting to get high on some exotic drug.

Having learnt from the mistakes of the past, the mistakes that psychedelic gurus like McKenna and Leary did, should be the goal of a community that is more interested in the true exploration of these plants and potential than superficially saying yes this or no that .. And through this, by shifting towards the 'right' directions, some people of the community will hopefully be shifted too and along with them, long term, media's image of the so called community [well I am being overoptimistic, but I think you get what I mean] wil not be about a bunch of druggies.... but for this to happen we should stop acting like ones

Much of what planthelper says in his post are worthwhile long-time observations and self-critisism that should be taken into account, if we like to be proud parts of a community we help shape.

And if I may, since this seems to be a retrospective thread on otz saga, may I say that his atittude has been at least 'strange'. Some of it is directly visible here in this thread. How come he/she/it curses me in an extreme fashion [even though he pretty much ridicules himself while doing this] and after 3 post he says "Well, mutant I am sorry and so on" . What I want to say is that this dude doesn't feel like the dude that genuinly asks sorry , he did so because he was told to do so. I have seen this happen a couple of times in several variations. I am hesitant to go on more about analyzing my ambiguities and criticism for a person that obviously pretends a lot and is at least IMO not honest.

Let me make this even clearer: Many times I feel for this guy, because I sense his passion. I am sure of his passion, I know how to recognise it, I have it myself. But there are too many shit that put me off. I don't think newbies should be learning from 'otz. Nor do I think his contributions here offer to the forum anything more than the credit of the forum that tolerated him the most....

=====================

Re: Baph

For what's it's worth, he might not be a racist after all, and you might be right about his doing social experiment. I have employed such provokative approaches and tactics to extract certain responses - a strategy is all it is, and it fucking works, believe me, but one should know where to stop, if he is just being a 'situationist' by provoking. I like surealistic and situationist ideas, and I dislike politically correctness, which is part of my left-wind background. I might also like to challenge all these left-idealisms, like 'everyone's equally smart', 'everyone's equally capable of doing certain things' , and I like to challenge these idealisms when I see them in other people mostly.

I have read few of baph's posts, and that's propably because he never really contributed to the threads I am more into, cultivation and practice. But I can undestand that an intelligent racist with integrity [sure you can have those too] cannot be clearly distiguished [on the interent] from a guy that is doing the politically incorrect provocateur thing to extract responses from the politically correct leftish - but I suppose that since Torsten decided to ban him, he must have fallen many times in that doubt. And, my, I am a fucking racist with racists, even if I have 'befriended' a couple of them once of twice in my lifetime [notably in the ~obligatory~ greek army]

[Torsten]

Let me just say that I do not enjoy or like the style that teotz brings with him and it is certainly not the reason why I think he will be a valued member. There are certain things that make a planthead interesting and valuable, which are passion, dedication, experience and generosity. There is no doubt teotz has copious amounts of passion and generosity. His dedication will be shown over time, but I believe he has this too. Experience is something that is also gained over time, but again, given the very short time that teotz has been into plants he has already gained a lot of this too. If teotz wasn't so annoying and noisy we'd all love him. I have seen that teotz. Only for a short while, but it was unmistakeable. Most of you probably missed it. I think it is worth a bit of effort to see if it is possible for teotz to be that way permanently. I am not sacrificing the forums for this cause, but if I can somehow manage to juggle the two then I'll keep trying for a bit longer.

teotz is having a break for a few weeks and when he comes back he will be on a very short leash. he'll be removed periodically if the need arises. I trust that this will give him an appreciation for quality over quantity. I know he has a certain amount of quality contribution and we just need to find that sweet spot where it crosses over into noise - he obviously has no perception of this himself.

And like I said before, there are extentuating circumstances which make me feel like it is the right thing to do to invest a disproportionate [but limited] amount of time into him.

[tardistestpilot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94OnHsHTQ8E

[cisumevil]

I dont post too often but I'm here just about everyday.....

I say bring teotz back asap & if you dont want anything to do with him dont read his posts, it's pretty simple. I do think alot of members stir him up abit.

I dont agree with anyone abusing the PM function but maybe he should of been banned from using PM's......

Anyway I'm sure "T" has made the right choice by allowing him to come back in the future.