ChoColat3!!

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Stupid Thread

[Torsten]

tepa, actually you can discuss the bug chaser etc quite openly. Just don't make generalisations. Even calling it a 'scene' is already beyond the truth cos a few sick individuals don't make it a scene [but I realise you are just quoting from the article, right?]. There is actually a lot of really deep stuff that could be discussed here with a bit more understanding. For example how love can influence decisions re health. And I don't mean frivolous gay sex, but true love. For example a negative guy being in love with a positive guy, but not being able to have a meaningful [in his eyes] sexual relationship with him because of the status difference, and the constant guilt this brings up in the positive guy. Some negative guys get themselves infected just so that they can have normal partnerships with their positive partners. It's probably not a common thing, but I know of two such cases who were considering it and hence it can't be that rare either. I also know of one such case with a hetero couple where one has a non-fatal serious infectious disease, so this is not limited to gays and is a complex issue we maybe all should examine how we feel about.

These things can be discussed without generalisations, without condemnation, without prejudice, without contempt. if you can do that then please go for it. It would certainly show that maybe you have learnt something from this situation and nothing would make me happier in this regard.

No one here is denying your right to disagree with other people's sexual orientation. Get over your gay dictator victim trip. I have no problem getting on with people who don't approve of my sexuality cos as far as I am concerned it is none of their business. But I do have a problem with people who treat gays with contempt and prejudice and will continue to do so.

JoP - you obviously STILL don't understand the meaning of homophobia. Just re read everythign that has beenw ritten here and you can asnwer your own question.

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Stupid Thread

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Stupid Thread

[Dodie]

You silly bugger Tepa, your god doesnt exist..

[Prophet]

I hope i don't add some fuel to the fire by saying i could never find homosexuality acceptable. I'm a christian though so my opinion doesn't count right? I would rather have no sexuality than homosexuality.

[Dodie]

I hope i don't add some fuel to the fire by saying i could never find homosexuality acceptable. I'm a christian though so my opinion doesn't count right? I would rather have no sexuality than homosexuality.

Well I dont know you Prophet but lets say you have a son, he comes home one day and says "Dad Im gay" Would you then kick him out of your home seeing as you find homosexuals unacceptable? Would you think any different of a childhood friend if you found out they were gay, would they lose your respect? and would this change if you had a daughter that was gay?

I find that most people that are homophobic (or those who claim arent but find gays unacceptable) couldn't give a shit if a girl was gay, If anything they'd TRY to have sex with a lesbian as some sort of trophey..

Just cause your christian doesnt mean your opinion doesnt count, but, most christians I'v met are fairly closed minded. Just remember everything that the church has taught you has been just that, a teaching. It has not been learnt from your heart...but has been told to you what is right or wrong..

[Dodie]

Hmm just noticed Tepa's sig. Don't you think your being childish here Tepa? Come on dude grow up & Evolve already!

If you know so much about gays Tepa, why do guys have thier G-Spot in their anus? God musta put it there for a reason! and I dont think its there for cheap thrills whist taking a shit..

[MORG]

Tepa grow up.

I remember you saying lesbian sex wasn't a problem for you, despite there being no biological reason for a woman to lick another woman's genitals.

Unless it's so male's can jack over pictures of them doing so! That'd be a reason. But what's the biological reason for jacking off Tepa? Waste of sperm but I don't reckon you've got much of a problem with that either.

[Torsten]

Prophet, I have about as many problems accepting your religion as you have accepting homosexuality. That doesn't mean I treat you with prejudice. I have no problem us coexisting and as long as you don't try to change me I won't try to change you. Isn't that fair enough?

You are also free to voice your opinion about homosexuality, as long as it is without making generalisations, using prejudice and insults.

And yes, I am also curious what your reponse to Dodies hypothetical situation is. Not because it is a theoretical situation but because it happens so very frequently [moreso in religious households it seems]. YOu have often commented on compassion and love and how it is central to your religion, yet your statement and the way many gays are treated by your religion do not reflect this and hence appear hypocritical.

I am not having a go at you here. I would actually really like to understand how a good christian can merge the two.

[Torsten]

I wonder if AIDS is gods way of punishing fags, by killing them off at a faster rate then the heteros with their SUPERIORLY higher rate of infections..

hmmm, get your facts straight. By far the vast majority of AIDS related deaths are heterosexuals. Unless of course the poor fuckers in the developing world don't count in your statistics.

clearly a reason why its UNNATURAL

to shove a cock in such a tight exit, not entry.

What about gay guys who don't have anal sex? is that wrong too.

oh yeah, those comments [underlined] and your sig line just earnt you another strike.

[Torsten]

If you know so much about gays Tepa, why do guys have thier G-Spot in their anus? God musta put it there for a reason! and I dont think its there for cheap thrills whist taking a shit..

ROFLMAO. Thanks for brightening up this thread like that

I had honestly never thought about that. Then again I have never looked to justify my actions before god

[Prophet]

Well I dont know you Prophet but lets say you have a son, he comes home one day and says "Dad Im gay" Would you then kick him out of your home seeing as you find homosexuals unacceptable? Would you think any different of a childhood friend if you found out they were gay, would they lose your respect? and would this change if you had a daughter that was gay?

I must say that would be hard one Dodie. Probably one of the reasons i don't want to have children. Young kids are being badly corrupted by the media etc and it would be hard to raise them the right way. Let me just say if i was in this situation i would try my hardest to try and change them and explain to them why i think its wrong etc. If it was a childhood friend i may lose respect for them if they weren't willing to have second thoughts about their ways.

Just cause your christian doesnt mean your opinion doesnt count, but, most christians I'v met are fairly closed minded. Just remember everything that the church has taught you has been just that, a teaching. It has not been learnt from your heart...but has been told to you what is right or wrong..

I try and keep my mind open but as far as basic christian beliefs are concerned and morality i can't compromise. What i have been taught hasn't been taught by a church. I don't even attend a church and anything i learned has been from what i have read studying at home. Now i have a choice to trust man or trust God, listen to man or listen to God. I know which i would rather listen to. It has been learnt from my heart. I can't say i know everything, i'm always learning new things but the foundation remains the same.

Prophet, I have about as many problems accepting your religion as you have accepting homosexuality. That doesn't mean I treat you with prejudice. I have no problem us coexisting and as long as you don't try to change me I won't try to change you. Isn't that fair enough?

You are also free to voice your opinion about homosexuality, as long as it is without making generalisations, using prejudice and insults.

yeah i know you do Torsten, alot of people seem to have problems with my religion and have voiced their opinions.To be honest it doesn't really bother me, i'm quite used to it. I don't treat you with prejudice but i can't say i accept what you do as being right and ever will but I'm sure we can coexist without any malice.

[chilli]

That definition of homophobia is only a literal translation of the words, but does not actually cover the full spectrum of what the word means. Most dictionaries will include prejudice, hatred of, discrimination and contempt as part of the meaning. These are all things that have been portrayed in this thread and hence there is no doubt that this thread contains homophobia.

Torsten, I'm not denying that this thread contains homophobia, it definitely does in my opinion.

I'm not sure why you took issue with my definition "homophobia is an irrational fear or hatred of homosexuals," as it includes hatred and contempt and strongly implies prejiduce and discrimination.

My point was that "technically, someone can make moral judgements about homosexuality without hating or fearing them."

[planthelper]

i haven't read most of this thread but...

i was brought up roman catholic and though my parents never talked about homosexuallety...

once or twice i had some homosexuall compulsions running through my head in my younger years...

once, just sucking a bong with my best friend felt to me like the bong represents the phallus and this thought of maybe i'm gay made me fuck up totaly, but it did only fuck me up because of my stupid religious upbringing.

i have met god on a trip once and regardless of what it was, i'm sure it was the same thing others refere to if they talk about god. this god is ever lasting unconditional love, she (my god had a femal voice) loves gay's and people who have sex with animals as long as there hearts are clean. if you believe in god as a creator, than god has created gay's in a godly mannor, seeing it differnt would mean god has done wrong.

the space where you gay haters come from is called superconciouns, the part where the ego tries to fit in into the moral values hold in the responsible society. meaning in a perfect world there would be no gay predjudice!

when the sailors of the bounty arrived in the polynesian ilands they could not believe that they were given young girls to have sex with, but in ther society it was good customs, till the fucking chritian missionaries fucked them all up, and replaced very high morals with there dirty morals.

some humans have been abused sexually, the only creature they can still trust to have sex with might be a girls dog, let's hope that the love between them heals the wounds.

believe me ther is nothing bad or dirty or evil if you heart is clean, but if you heart is filled with badness than you have a problem even if you are married and have sex only in missionary style.

now that i know the universe loves me regardless of my sexuall preference, my heart and soul is clean and my brain feels very good.

the view that, homosexuallety is unnatural, causes lots of pain in people who feel those tendancies,

some even committe suicide. so it's your views which are unnatural, because they cause suffering in others.

[Torsten]

Torsten, I'm not denying that this thread contains homophobia, it definitely does in my opinion.

I'm not sure why you took issue with my definition "homophobia is an irrational fear or hatred of homosexuals," as it includes hatred and contempt and strongly implies prejiduce and discrimination.

My point was that "technically, someone can make moral judgements about homosexuality without hating or fearing them."

I had no issue with your definition. In this discussion though it seemed that the limited interpretation might be used by tepa and JoP to justify their stance. And they did. They proclaimed that they do not fear or hate them [which is the definition you gave] and hence they are not homophobic. Sensible people would infer that prejudice and discrimination are included, but I very much doubt that such inference was made by tepa and JoP, which is why I expanded on it.

My comment wasn't so much towards your post and you as it was towards preempting what others were bound to use it for. Sorry for the confusion.

[occidentalis]

I had no issue with your definition. In this discussion though it seemed that the limited interpretation might be used by tepa and JoP to justify their stance. And they did. They proclaimed that they do not fear or hate them [which is the definition you gave] and hence they are not homophobic. Sensible people would infer that prejudice and discrimination are included, but I very much doubt that such inference was made by tepa and JoP, which is why I expanded on it.

My comment wasn't so much towards your post and you as it was towards preempting what others were bound to use it for. Sorry for the confusion.

I think it's a really important distinction to make, because sufferers of homophobia (and other similar illnesses) are often in denial because they take the most literal definition of the word. Similarly, a literal interpretation of 'homosexual' means they often focus entirely on the sexual elements of a same-sex relationship - as we have seen here with tepa - rather than admit the possibility that there could be an emotional side, or majority, to it.

[chilli]

I had no issue with your definition. In this discussion though it seemed that the limited interpretation might be used by tepa and JoP to justify their stance. And they did. They proclaimed that they do not fear or hate them [which is the definition you gave] and hence they are not homophobic. Sensible people would infer that prejudice and discrimination are included, but I very much doubt that such inference was made by tepa and JoP, which is why I expanded on it.

My comment wasn't so much towards your post and you as it was towards preempting what others were bound to use it for. Sorry for the confusion.

No worries Torsten, but since this has already made it into the degenerated threads column, I thought I might as well point out that tepas and JoP's comments came before I posted that. Its hard to keep track with all the nasty shit flying around though.

_________________________________________

BTW, whoever said its okay to fuck animals, I think that's pretty messed up. I hope there's no bestiality pride movement, it's just too creepy.

While we're at this level, what about consensual sex between a child and an adult, does anyone think that's okay?

[Darklight]

One of the things which totally cracks me up about homophobes is that they spend much, much more of their lives thinking about our sex lives than we do. It says more about them than it does about us.

For example, no way would I ever bother to put so much angst and anger about someone else's sexual practices into my sig file. Obsessed? Well, one of us is...

[Torsten]

No worries Torsten, but since this has already made it into the degenerated threads column, I thought I might as well point out that tepas and JoP's comments came before I posted that. Its hard to keep track with all the nasty shit flying around though.

I was well aware of that. Your definition would have lent support to their argument and would have been [and was] used to justify their position. I kinda figured that was not your intention, but I saw it coming, so rather than spending several posts arguing with tepa and JoP on definition etc, I elected to comment on your post instead.

The technical limitation of that definition is nothing new in these types of discussions, so it was easy to see where this was going

BTW, whoever said its okay to fuck animals, I think that's pretty messed up. I hope there's no bestiality pride movement, it's just too creepy.

LOL, CS is pretty messed up. But he is also pretty down to earth and rational. read his post carefully. The scenario he describes is almost impossible.

for example there is no way you can tell if a male donkey enjoys being sucked off, so essentially that type of b ehaviour is out by CS's definition. However, if a girl gets mounted by an alsatian and he does the act voluntarily, then no matter how gross and creepy it is, you can't really say that it is bad for the animal. Now, before anyone gets the wrong ideas here, I am not in favour of ANY bestiality. I am merely clarifying the limits CS was setting with what he wrote. These limits are based on 'love' and 'do no harm' and I think it is pretty difficult to argue against that on a rational basis.

Still, I don't feel too well even from just writing this

While we're at this level, what about consensual sex between a child and an adult, does anyone think that's okay?

Hot potato

In our society NO. Although, if you think about the fact that there are people in jail who were having sex with 17 year olds 5 years ago and now doing so is 100% legal, isn't this all just arbitrary society-set limits? Obviously there is a huge difference whether you are talking 5 year olds or 17 year olds.

In other societies it is quite normal to have sex with 13 year old girls. Whether it is right or not is a different matter. There have been discussion on that topic before and I think the concensus is that a mature guy havign sex with a young girl can have serious and permanent health effects due to tissue damage. I think such physical issues are far more important than societal limits.

I have wondered ever since I was about 12 why kids are not allowed to have sex once they reach puberty? I mean, every other animal does, so when we are talking about what is natural, then I am surprised the christian churches don't advocate breeding from the start of fertility. Never quite understood that one. I presume it has more to do with the protectiveness of those in power [ie parents] than anything rational or natural.

I think 16 or 17 is a very appropriate age of consent. Even the slowest developers should have a clue about sex by then. I always thought 18 was ridiculous. On the other end of the scale, I never understood why anyone would be attracted to a person who has not developed any sexuality - it totally escapes me how anyone could see anything sexual in a 5 year old .

[nabraxas]

 

 

isn't this all just arbitrary society-set limits?

for sure, & if we go back in time the limits were different again. Back in Shakespear's day the earliest legal age for marriage, the age of consent or discretion, was 14, & in those days children matured a lot slower than today. Romeo's Juliet is only 14 years old.

[chilli]

While we're at this level, what about consensual sex between a child and an adult, does anyone think that's okay?

Hot potato

In our society NO. Although, if you think about the fact that there are people in jail who were having sex with 17 year olds 5 years ago and now doing so is 100% legal, isn't this all just arbitrary society-set limits? Obviously there is a huge difference whether you are talking 5 year olds or 17 year olds.

In other societies it is quite normal to have sex with 13 year old girls. Whether it is right or not is a different matter. There have been discussion on that topic before and I think the concensus is that a mature guy havign sex with a young girl can have serious and permanent health effects due to tissue damage. I think such physical issues are far more important than societal limits.

I have wondered ever since I was about 12 why kids are not allowed to have sex once they reach puberty? I mean, every other animal does, so when we are talking about what is natural, then I am surprised the christian churches don't advocate breeding from the start of fertility. Never quite understood that one. I presume it has more to do with the protectiveness of those in power [ie parents] than anything rational or natural.

Yes, its especially interesting when you consider that the ancient Hebrews would often marry at 12.

I think 16 or 17 is a very appropriate age of consent. Even the slowest developers should have a clue about sex by then. I always thought 18 was ridiculous. On the other end of the scale, I never understood why anyone would be attracted to a person who has not developed any sexuality - it totally escapes me how anyone could see anything sexual in a 5 year old .

I share your bewilderment, but from what I understand a lot of pedophiles who are attracted to children of this age are attracted to the innocence and lack of sexuality.

[Prophet]

she (my god had a femal voice) loves gay's and people who have sex with animals as long as there hearts are clean.

all i can say is that isn't the true God you are following, maybe some kind of evil spirit. There is no way your heart is clean if you support these kind of behaviours. That is as filthy as it gets. God would like to see them repent not continue in their filthyness. The thought the someone would support doing it with an animal makes me sick

[incognito]

tepa,to me ur deranged. not really deranged but more fascinated by anal sex,quite possibly with a man, but to quote ol' cs, due to your 'programming' you are having big problems with it maybee subconciously as well as conciously as it is definatley 'not the norm or aspired to in todays christian (u are christian yeah? btw whats ur outlook on psychadelics from a christian point of view-im talkin to u to Prophet, how does ur christian etho's go with all that 'devils 'weed ' that contains dark energys and all the other plants that contain 'spirits' or 'idols'??"i mean in ur belief system THIS is aout as pagan as having sex with one of ur own gender.

First to address my own hypocrisy. There is a part of me that is homophobic to a small degree, which in a way that i have expressed my own latent bisexuality with all the rest of the latent repressed bisexuals that i grew up with in country towns, played football with, worked on worksites with etc.

In a weird way its a way that men from that side of things communicate, and perhaps express their homosexual feelings subconciously, by talking about homosexality and homosexuals.(urban shamans prolly know what im talkin bout )

My mum shows pug dogs, and my dad whos now retired goes, not to watch pugs or mum, but to watch the gay men who show the poodles. I kid u not. He goes and watches for half a day. Its creepy. It creeps mum out. This is a guy who has detested 'poofters' his whole life bagged the sghite out of them at every given moment, even told me that if i turned out to be queer hed have nothin to do with me. What a cak!!! Now im next to mearried with a kid and he spends half his weekend watching camp-as gay guys show poodles, and reports back every minute detail over the dinner table, about what the poofs did and what they were wearing what fights they had etc, hes like a stalker of poodle owners.strange. im certain now that hes been in the closet his whole life lol.

Personally i think im bisexual. Ive had homosexual experiences in the past and they were great and im so glad ive had them.

But I LEAN towards women god bless em and am now in a monagamous heterosexual relationship(right word?) which sure has its share of pros and cons.

I mean people are people, and ur gonna have good and bad in any faction, be it the heterosexual,homosexual,christian,muslim,redneck,clubgoer,trancer,black white what the fuckever. Accepting people as PEOPLE is the go i think.

another one tepa, u think anal sex is only enjoyed by the homosexual community???? BOY U HAVENT FUKEN LIVED!!!!!!!!!!!!

anal sex is great!!! i know hepas of straight peeps who dig it!!! our bodys to be enjoyed man!!!

I mean anal sex, and homosexuality exists in the good gods nature. For example, my two dogs that i used to have swampy (a mastiff ridgeback cross ) and colonal (a french bulldog) had a loving homosexual relationship. And they werent shy about it. They hid nothing. They would hump all day and lick each others peni, and they were happy. They werea real odd couple. the oddest. but they were great dogs, ever so gentle and loving. When colonal died, it broke my big dogs heart and he was inconsolable, escaping at every moment he could to find his friend and lover swampy. That to me was love. who could create that? god? he creates everything in his image and he only creates perfection right?

I think homosexual sex is safe if practiced safely,as is straight sex (is anal between two straight people i.e guy girl homosexual?). I think this whole 'gay people spread aids' is hetero propaganda, im sure as much if not more aids is spread via hetero people.

Anyhoo, thought this would be right for me to say in memory of my main man colonal, wish i had a didgie to post a pic cos he is quite a funny and odd looking little fellow, but he was quite a funny character and great with kids.snored like a motherfucker.

Rest in piece colonal u sick little deviant(save the lambast i didnt tell u about the necrophillia)

[Prophet]

its funny how some people say they are spiritual and on the other hand and involved in wanton acts of carnality. You can't mix the two together. They are either spiritually minded or carnally minded as the two are opposed one to the other.

u are christian yeah? btw whats ur outlook on psychadelics from a christian point of view-im talkin to u to Prophet, how does ur christian etho's go with all that 'devils 'weed ' that contains dark energys and all the other plants that contain 'spirits' or 'idols'

well jono this is one thing i'm stuggling with at the moment and yet to come up with a full conclusion. I examine myself on a daily basis. My experience with psychadelics is very limitted and i approach it with much caution. I have only used weed in the past and i smoked weed for some time. Let me say that some experiences i had with weed were what i would call spiritual with detachment from the world and somehow feeling close to God and admiring the creation but other times the experience turned dark and i found being detached from myself and fear and panic set in. Now i no longer smoke weed as i don't think its necessary to lead a spiritual life.

There are some things that i would definitely not be willing to try. I don't believe that plants contain spirits but i do believe that you can be influenced by certain spirits while under the influence of a certain plant. Its only idolatry when you put your belief in the object necessary to lead a spiritual life and put it equal or above your belief in God. If one can't lead a spiritual life without them then in my opinion its a problem. I believe that calling a plant a teacher is idolatry as there is only one teacher (God). I enjoy growing alot of cacti with psychadelic properties but i don't grow them for that reason. For example i also grow brugmansia and datura, does that mean that i eat my brugmansia and datura? i'm quite happy to grow them for their flowers and I grow them because they are wonderful looking plants and very rewarding and easy to grow and well adapted to my climate. Most of which are hard to find outside this community, particularly many of the cacti.