Psychedelic to break a loop

[mutant]

Edit: this experience was facilitated by my friend with some wood-eating psilocybin and went fine. The discussion went on though and is pretty interesting IMO.

A friend is thinking about having an experience with a classic psychedelic soon on.

There is a number of issues that somewhat trouble him, nothing stretchy or stressy, mostly of a restrospective character analysis nature and regarding relationships with other people. True there is some confusion and some kind of junction in his life, like something that has been postponed for years.

The object is not a recreational experience, but rather a strong mental , recalibrating, deep experience. He expects it to be party disturbing if it is to create an impression to help himself move the center of equilibrium in his life to another point afterwards [post-experience].

I am not quite sure if he wants a pure strong deep psychanalysis experience or something 'more' than that.

One of the goals he is trying to get to bring on to include in the experiece is his cannabis overuse, which is proving totally counterproductive in the very matters implied here including but not limited to past and present self-psychanalysis my friend is trying to focus on.

Anyway, cannabis is the strongest element of the cycle/loop he wants to break from so this is a matter by itself, and as he is casually having pretty good times smoking it, he sees the drawbacks and knows he needs to break the cycle and see what happens, and this is not about 5-10 days not smoking, but a bigger change in approach too.

This is HUGE snd complex matter, but I like to discuss aprroaches to experience prior to them, and I would like to read some opinions by all wonderful and knowledgable people here.

So bringing the first dilemmas...

Which substance to pick, or expressed with more compexity, which psych would bring which traits, so as to pick a plan for the best result?

The available candidates are [picking from the classics only]:

*Argyreia seeds, there are also some unmature, reported to be stronger and lacking nausea. I know these have a psychoanalytical potential, and I know they don't like cannabis, or so says my friend.

*Psilos, small unknown woodeaters, propably an undescribed species, strongly blueing, self picked

*aya brew [56gr of viridis leaf + peganum seed]

*mescaline is propably out, cause he might just have a great time on it, instead of diving into oneself.

So this is the goal: diving into oneself.

This time he is thinking of going on and doing this alone, no sitter, everything planned in advance.

******

Alternate suggestions/plans could also bee like that:

"Tell you friend to try and break the circle of daily cannabis use first. Let the mind clear. Then decide what to do, which to pick"

which could also be a valid suggestion.

************

Another issue is whether use a tiny amount of cannabis in the experience. I think my friend likes a miniscule amount while on a psych but necessarily not more than a tiny bit!

Maybe I should exclude totally from my experience?

************

What are your thoughts on a puff of salvia while on psilo/argyreia if the trip ain't focusing on aforementioned matters? I know salvia normally brings out a positive change in my friends life, but also know this combo ain't really recommended, actually it's usually regarded a no-no.

ALso, do you think aya shouldnt be taken by a first timer alone [no sitter]? Is 56 grams of dried viridis leaf 'enough'? 3 g of syrian rue would be enought to potentiate and show its presence or 5 is more sufficient? Friend hasn't experimented with peganum alone too..

I forgot to mention this friend of mine lives in a southamerican country where all these are legal.

Edited May 15, 2010 by mutant

[Chiral]

Foregt aya at this point, it's not the right time.

seeds will not have the desired effect and are quiet nasty and sorta toxic and at large dose 14 seeds can basically make you pass out quicker than a 2mg bar of xanax.

Mescaline is too much fun and does not have the necessary qualities you seek for self diagnostics, in fact after a mescaline trip you may find yourself wanting to smoke some canabis as a post form of relaxing and getting some sleep.

Mushrooms are the go but you have to work quite different with them as they will not just do the work for you, you have to ask for the help and continually press for information and be proactive with them, they are incredible teachers but if you don't actively seek out the knowledge and offer your heart and reasons to the experience you may simply end up just tripping out on tryptamine neon style visuals to occupy the time.

There isn't really a perfect psychedelic for this particular application, although i once used acid when I was in depths of opiate wd's so I could see myself in all my utter hopelessness and degradation...it worked but the mind relapses quickly back to it's regular state so quick that the answers fade quickly and you slide back to old ways and habits extremely quickly.

try the woodlovers at around 3-4 gms with lemon juice tea...you find all your answers there as your guide will ask you many questions and take you to places for healing...only if you are pure and genuine though so open up and stay opened and focused.

[JDanger]

I read recently on the Aya forums some discussion regarding comparison between caapi and rue. The consensus seemed to be that the rue was in fact a lot harsher in terms of self-analysis than the typical "motherly love" feel usually attributed to caapi brews.

A psilo/rue combination might give your friend what he's after, but I'd rather some other members put in their two cents since I've never worked with the combination myself.

Best of luck.

[Auxin]

I think it may be best for him to quit pot 100% and then a month later do a medium to medium-high dose level of mushies in an appropriate supportive environment to cement in what he has learned, and extract more knowledge that hes on the verge of cognizing. I figure a month would make it so the stress level from quitting is greatly decreased.

It'll also naturally help if his normal day-to-day environment can be made to support healing. Even if lessons can be learned 10, or even 50 times as strong when tripping that alone isnt enough since he will only be tripping 0.1% of the time that hes dealing with these issues.

As chiral indicated, if its a strong habit that ones combating then after the experience its easy to fall back into habit patterns despite any lessons. Back in the late 90's some strong acid trips quite clearly told me how destructive my tobacco smoking and severe cannabis over-use were but despite that my smoking kept up at the same rate and my cannabis use only marginally decreased. It wasnt until 4 years later that I quit cannabis abuse (and use all together) and it wasnt until 8 years! after those acid trips that I quit tobacco (however I still partly ascribe quitting to the long-past acid lessons).

His own actions, intentions, and surrounding environment are more essential than any sort of healing trip. The latter just catalyzes more rapid change when the other factors are in accordance with that change.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Auxin

[nabraxas]

personally mushrooms were instructive & the cause for my giving up smoking, but that was kind ov an unwanted instruction ;)

i know a few people who swear by the use ov ketamine for personal develpoment, a couple ov them have used it to give up smoking w/out any problem that i'm aware ov.

[Slybacon]

Remove your self from the cycle for at least 7 days. Take at least 3 books your favorite pillow, the best water you can find, chocolate and go somewhere you have never been. I find that once you are over the first 7 days not smoking you are over the physical side of the addiction and now you only need to break the mental part of the habit. First get a full body massage, this will help remove any toxins. Now load your body for 7 days on fruit and nuts and veggies. At the end of the 7 days you then take a nice big dose of lucy. By this time you should have a pretty good insight on what you want deep down.

[Chiral]

Mutant I think know you and am pretty sure that you are..for want of a better word, "a lightweight" when it comes to psychedelics, my point is you haven't experienced mushrooms, mesc or clean, medium to large dose acid, so without sounding like a jackass I'm trying to say to you,.. jump in and stop being a "nancy" about it..tough love, but seriously you need to test the waters man and crack that "baby" mind of yours open a little, once you do you will develop a different set of thinking patterns and suddenly realise or understand what we all bang on about so much.

I highly recommend you just get on with it and stop putting it off, smoke some DMT too at the end of the mushroom trip for some tailing clarity.

Auxin makes some great points about stopping weed use and then dosing, that's exactly what I did with opiates, I did wd's got myself into a state of sheer hopelessness and pain, then dosed some potent acid, it really made me look at myself in a way only psychedelics can. I was completely at my lowest point in life and was disgusted in myself almost to the point of crying and wanting to die, but I knew what I wanted and was willing to accept the truth. The next day I went and cut my long hair off, bought some fruit and veg and vitamins and went home and started to look for work and get on with my life...having a wife and child helped enormously too to snap out of my selfishness, and that's what these addictions are...selfish weak cover-ups, for the real you who keeps hiding for whatever reasons, probably just laziness and a willingness to not want to participate in life to the full.

If I was there with you, I would slap you and have some stern words with you, you may fight back and abuse me but prolly see what I'm saying as the brutal truth...can't remember how many times I've hurt peoples feelings when I've abused them and told them the awful truth about themselves, they come around and it works, funny thing is no one ever thanks me for it though, but it's all good as long as they get on with it and sort their lives out, and that's what this all about...snap out of it man, you are showing your weakness and hiding behind a haze of THC.

[C_T]

not too much fruit, fructose can only be used by the liver as glycogen (due to the enzyme converting it, which isn't present in muscles), so if your liver stores are full, it goes straight to fat... fruit for breakfast only.

whole foods, vege's, eggs and meat you cannot go wrong!

[Auxin]

Now I half-expect someone to pop up and thank chiral for calling them a lazy greedy self-centered piss swilling bogan

[Chiral]

Now I half-expect someone to pop up and thank chiral for calling them a lazy greedy self-centered piss swilling bogan

 

lol...any thanks would be nice but I don't ever expect it, it's rather humbling to not get it actually and just see the results.

I've lost a lot of old friends to the depths of weed and it kinda breaks my heart, in fact whenever I see postings about weed and it's over use it reminds me of all my old surfer buddies who have lost themselves to the slave of the bong, sad sad stuff particularly when they had so much natural ability and could have surfed the world tour and been happy and successful as opposed to playing play station and having multiple women with children to themselves and not marrying or supporting any of them.

The weed took them to a lazy place daily and they procrastinated over life too often until they became what I called stunned by the weed and never got the chance to exhibit any true talents they may have practiced. The chain reaction is the single mums, the kids they have fathered, the parents they have disappointed and abused, pretty much everyone around them has had their bridges burned, and mostly they have let them selves down.

I have seen life's opportunities be presented to my friends and pathways opened up, only to be left without trying due the fact that they need to get stoned first and do that other stuff later, obviously it never gets done and then the opportunity is gone forever. They have however been motivated enough to get drunk and shag a lot of women, this seems to be a re-occurring theme to people who give up on life's chances and opt out for a lazy life of smoking whatever and getting up late.

just my view and is no way indicative of the millions of other weed smokers around the world so sit back down and don't even think about posting that nasty rebuttal you lot.

[PD.]

woodlovers

[Slybacon]

^^^^^ Yeah i thought that after my 3rd kid, 3 divorces and a handful of abortions i would of woke up to the nasty stuff... Im just so damn addicted ;)

Wont somebody think of the weed babies!!!!

[Auxin]

Yeah, mushie babies are way cooler

[-YT-]

just my view and is no way indicative of the millions of other weed smokers around the world so sit back down and don't even think about posting that nasty rebuttal you lot.

 

awwwwwww

just one question though chiral do you judge these ppl who you feel are wasting their lives?

as you were

[Chiral]

awwwwwww

just one question though chiral do you judge these ppl who you feel are wasting their lives?

as you were

 

judge them...not at all, that thought has never crossed my mind, I'm sad for them actually and all the people around them who they have let down year after year after year.

I don't dislike weed either, I just don't like to talk about the plant and anything associated with growing it here for obvious reasons. I really like the plant and have had a strong relationship with it in the past, but never abused it, tis always nice to have a tin of special bud hidden for that special occasion though... particularly if it's old school sativa bud grown in soil outside.

[-YT-]

much love for the honest reply bro!

[mac]

I would say woodlovers & nangers

Im only a lightweight when it comes to the woodlovers but some time ago a rough 3.5g of subs took me for a short ride underground & showed me more of its own life cycle than any enlightenment of my own life

Now that same dose wasn't enough to take me over the border to Inner space or to visit the "monkey elders" or have any real life changing experience as i was only testing the waters so to speak

One thing when using low to medium doses of woodlovers, Nangers go really well IMO, take you right to the edge without staying there too long when your new to the whole experience

sadly im out in the semi arid desert where we dont get any fun fungi so i did not get a chance to repeat the experience with a higher dosage Brings a tear to my eye

Edited April 6, 2010 by mac

[mutant]

now what the heck are nangers??

thanks everybody for answers

chiral don't get too preachy, it doesn't help so much man. You don't know me you only know what I have let out, I have mentioned that I am a light-head and that I have a fearful respect for these types of substances.

my point is you haven't experienced mushrooms, mesc or clean, medium to large dose acid

nonsense

it is true I haven't experienced psilocybin mushrooms.

it is also true I am hesitant to go on and do it like that. Especially with no sitter.

Auxin is more spot on, thanks mate

His own actions, intentions, and surrounding environment are more essential than any sort of healing trip. The latter just catalyzes more rapid change when the other factors are in accordance with that change.

that's the thing, that accordance.. trying to figure out parameters of my soulmap....

to try to include to the 'triggering trip'

thanks again for the time you all took to reply...

Edited April 6, 2010 by mutant

[mac]

nangers = bogan for N2O bulbs

[FancyPants]

As far as personal experience goes, LSD helped break my psychological "need" for codeine. Was a reasonable enough dose that I was pretty incapable of coherant speech.

But like everyone else said, substances can only be used to assist, not "cure."

[Pala]

FYI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine#Treatment_for_opiate_addiction

Can't speak to its efficacy personally, but reading up on it, it seem that the anti-addictive efect is both due psychology (comparable perhaps to other existentially affirming psychoactives), and also by affecting the way your brain handles reward, changing the behaviour of the parts of your brain that are involvedin addictive-rewards (ref).

[Chiral]

now what the heck are nangers??

thanks everybody for answers

chiral don't get too preachy, it doesn't help so much man. You don't know me you only know what I have let out, I have mentioned that I am a light-head and that I have a fearful respect for these types of substances.

nonsense

it is true I haven't experienced psilocybin mushrooms.

it is also true I am hesitant to go on and do it like that. Especially with no sitter.

Auxin is more spot on, thanks mate

 

No disrespect intended man just know that you are the sort of person who can take criticism and don't take it personally...I went to far maybe but hey maybe the international cutural gap failed to gel the jibs at you as typical bogan ozzie type encouragement...Just would love to hear that there was a success story at the end of this is all, particularly how this relates to a person you have been with for a long time and it would be shame if things didn't go in a positive direction...

if you want you can slag me off for a whole page if you want...I prolly deserve it.

[mutant]

....

Edited April 7, 2010 by mutant

[Chiral]

So what have you decided after all these responses here and at the nook...there has been some incredible advice offered by some amamzing people both here and there...but I think you know the answer anyways don't you.

good luck man, keep us updated.

how do you spell wooos...oh, nevermind.

[incognito]

i really dont think psychadelics can ever 'break' a lopp or solve your problem. If anything they will intensify and complicate it. (IMO)

I would be more inclined to seek out a good counsellor and a dietician.

maybee a counsellor trained in cbt (cognitive behaviorial therapy) will be more of a help?

I couldnt emphasise enough that psychadelics are not going to solve any of your mental health issues (IMO and experiences).

did someone recommend mushrooms? are u fuken crazy???