I don'tknow how to put into words

[educate]

What are your thoughts on people consuming the same dosage and experiencing different things. I mentioned before about friends having the same dosage but explaining different intensities. There has to be variations due to body weight (obvious), gut function, intestinal motility, diet, previous experience, liver function, metabolism, etc etc.

If you agree, then dosage is irrelevant, isn't it?

Also, I don't know why but if I take a dose after a long break the experience is stronger. If I am in Holland doing it everyday for 2 weeks, each day progressively gets weaker and I need more (maybe someone can explain the chemistry if that's what it is). If there is some physiological reason for this then optimal dosage would vary for a roomful of people.

[baphomet]

you are now starting to sound like a cynical old school jerk

Well, that's partly true.. Like you I'm no spring chicken, and to be honest I didn't even know what "subs" were until I became a member here, I had only ever heard the terms, gold tops, blue meanies, etc but we just called them "mushies", we rarely ate them (except for maybe a few preserved in honey), we boiled them and drank the juice.. Back then there was no internet to find out correct dosages or help with identification, we just went on what we were told.

I didn't even know how long the effects of mushies were supposed to last until I took a couple of members on a hunt last year.. And I'm still spinning out That's cause we never really had one measured dose.. We usually camped at the spot where we picked them, boiled them all at once and drank the juice over a day or so, when we stopped laughing it was time for more juice.

I have fond memories of siting behind a raging waterfall tripping off our heads and smoking joints (old school Melbourne mushie heads know where I'm talking about .. sadly now it's just a trickle).

I met lots of people over the years who were there for the same reason as us and there was no mention of "entities" of any sort, everyone knew exactly what to expect.. Uncontrollable laughter followed by hallucinations with the very real possibility of severe anxiety, etc.

Likewise I was around the rave scene for years after this and went picking and tripping many times with countless people I met at raves and still no mention of "entities".

But here we are in 2009 and we have this elitist little cult like group who thinks they are privileged enough to have some incorporeal beings talk to them and tell them useless information that they often can't remember whilst unenlightened individuals like myself and every other person I ever met before the advent of the internet is denied the company of their imaginary friends.. Because apparently the beings don't like us .

I don't know how long this crap has been peddled around byron or anywhere else.. But as far as I can see it's a fairly new phenemenon, kinda reminds me of alien abductions, almost unheard of of until Whitley Strieber & Bud Hoppkins made it fashionable.. Then POW! Aliens are abducting thousands of people every year, people are being abducted all over the place

instead of reducing ones ego, actually expands it until u r some intolerable self obsessed wank!!!

Agreed.

baphomet, with the sort of attitude and negativity you display around here i'm not surprised that your usual psychedelic experiences are depressing. if i was an entity i wouldn't waste my time with you. not everyone gets the honour of encountering entities for some people it's all just fractal patterns and geometric visuals. they don't come at first but after working with the plants and using them with good and honest intentions they will reveal themselves.

So painful self reflection/introspection is not a typical psychedelic experience but playing with imaginary friends is? Ok buddy.. I saw the thread in which you drew pictures of these "entities" and if I remember rightly at least one of them was from the effects of mushrooms? DMT, I can't comment on cause I haven't used enough of it but if you are reporting this shit on mushrooms then I must say that I have a hard time believing your claims or think that maybe you have difficulty distinguishing between what's real & what's not.

And what revelations have you received from these "entities" If you don't mind me asking? Do you just talk about the weather in their dimension or is it all deep n meaningful?

No offense man but that's a downright irresponsible thing to do because I'm pretty sure you have very limited experience with subs at all.

So hunab has had "very limited experience with subs" but the entities were good enough to visit him, I'm wondering hunab how much of this was closed eye hallucination and how much was open eye? Cause I'd have a hard time believing that you saw these beings with open eyes on mushrooms.. No matter how many you took.

And if it was closed eye then I've met plenty of beings.. & perceived the consciousness behind certain diseases and other life that apparently has no consciousness according to modern science, but how real these experiences were.. I'm not sure.

Iboga was interesting, the first time I thought I saw someone's finger peeling back the blinds out the corner of my eye, it seemed very real at the time, more so than anything on mushrooms.. But I can't say for sure that it was "the spirit of iboga" cause I had heard stories from other people about this and the mind can play tricks.. Not to mention that it is a powerful hallucinogen.

I have also taken ayahuasca and seen "entities" occult symbols, etc but I'm not sure how much of this is my own mind creating it.. Ironically part of my doubt stems from an article that you (hunab) posted claiming that blind people don't hallucinate because they have not seen the images for their brain to replay to them.. Where as others would have no doubt interpreted it all as "archetypes" etc, I'm not going to make that leap cause I have probably seen all these symbols, etc at some time in my life and I'm probably just hallucinating..

I am completely baffled why you bother attending a board that likes to entertain spiritual mystical experiences through plant spirits...oh but you probably don't believe they exist either do you..?

First of all.. Not everyone here believes in sentient plant spirits!! Perhaps you should have asked Torsten and others whether they share your beliefs before trying to make me feel out of place .

There are a few nice people here who do believe this I'm sure, Julian being one of them.. No offense to them, we just have a slight difference of opinion that's all.

I'm a little surprised by the unwillingness of some to consider other explanations, it's like heresy to question these "plant teachers", "entities" etc for some people.. Surprising too considering that some of you are science students who are supposed to question everything.. Have you never heard of Occams razor, Descartes, The scientific method.. etc?

Since your so fkn cocky about it hunab how 'bout you tell me all about these "plant spirits".. Is it only the hallucinogenic ones that have "spirits"?

Edited May 11, 2009 by baphomet

[JDanger]

What are your thoughts on people consuming the same dosage and experiencing different things. I mentioned before about friends having the same dosage but explaining different intensities. There has to be variations due to body weight (obvious), gut function, intestinal motility, diet, previous experience, liver function, metabolism, etc etc.

If you agree, then dosage is irrelevant, isn't it?

Also, I don't know why but if I take a dose after a long break the experience is stronger. If I am in Holland doing it everyday for 2 weeks, each day progressively gets weaker and I need more (maybe someone can explain the chemistry if that's what it is). If there is some physiological reason for this then optimal dosage would vary for a roomful of people.

How does the first paragraph suggest dosage is irrelevant? It might be difficult to nail down exactly which dose to take at which time, for which effect, in which individual, but if anything, this underscores the importance of dosage. Broadly speaking, there will be a range of doses where certain effects can be predicted for the majority of individuals and as with any statistical sample, there will be those who fall outside (on either side) of these general parameters (due to tolerance, physiology, as well as inconsistencies in the potency of the specimens consumed). As one popular educational institution says, "know your body, know your mind, know your substance, know your source".

Your second problem is caused by tolerance. Happens with most drugs; your body develops a tolerance to a particular substance (through a variety of mechanisms), which means you need to increase your dose to get the same effects if dosing repeatedly in a small time frame. If you're experiencing tolerance from mushrooms, give yourself a break of 5-7 days for your body to return to a state somewhat more normal. Maybe ME or Faustus can give you a more in-depth explanation (including cross and reverse-tolerance). Either that, or you can harness the power of Google.

Word.

[ThunderIdeal]

i think i threw the first real stone:

"what does bother me is you have this hard line attitude about drug prohibition but nothing you say indicates that you acted with any responsibility when you used drugs. if everybody was like you then prohibition probably IS for the best."

sorry hunab. please don't reduce yourself to feeding the troll.

[baphomet]

Yea, ThunderIdeal's mom can feed herself.

[Chiral]

you are now starting to sound like a cynical old school jerk

Well, that's partly true.. Like you I'm no spring chicken, and to be honest I didn't even know what "subs" were until I became a member here, I had only ever heard the terms, gold tops, blue meanies, etc but we just called them "mushies", we rarely ate them (except for maybe a few preserved in honey), we boiled them and drank the juice.. which we simply called "mushie juice" . Back then there was no internet to find out correct dosages or help with identification, we just went on what we were told.

I didn't even know how long the effects of mushies were supposed to last until I took a couple of members on a hunt last year.. And I'm still spinning out That's cause we never really had one measured dose.. We usually camped at the spot where we picked them, boiled them all at once and drank the juice over a day or so, when we stopped laughing it was time for more juice.

The dosage per person would be a couple of large brown paper Mcdonnalds bags full of mushies (min) boiled into tea, and drunk over a long period, quite often a day or so without sleep.

I have fond memories of siting behind a raging waterfall tripping off our heads and smoking joints (old school Melbourne mushie heads know where I'm talking about .. sadly now it's just a trickle).

I met lots of people over the years who were there for the same reason as us, (but we usually cleaned the place out before they got there ) and there was no mention of "entities" of any sort, everyone knew exactly what to expect.. Uncontrollable laughter followed by hallucinations with the very real possibility of severe anxiety, etc.

Likewise I was around the rave scene for years after this and went picking and tripping many times with countless people I met at raves and still no mention of "entities".

But here we are in 2009 and we have this elitist little cult like group who thinks they are privileged enough to have some incorporeal beings talk to them and tell them useless information that they often can't remember whilst unenlightened individuals like myself and every other person I ever met before the advent of the internet is denied the company of their imaginary friends.. Because apparently the beings don't like us .

I don't know how long this crap has been peddled around byron or anywhere else.. But as far as I can see it's a fairly new phenemenon, kinda reminds me of alien abductions, almost unheard of of until Whitley Strieber & Bud Hoppkins made it fashionable.. Then POW! Aliens are abducting thousands of people every year, people are being abducted all over the place

Agreed.

baphomet, with the sort of attitude and negativity you display around here i'm not surprised that your usual psychedelic experiences are depressing. if i was an entity i wouldn't waste my time with you. not everyone gets the honour of encountering entities for some people it's all just fractal patterns and geometric visuals. they don't come at first but after working with the plants and using them with good and honest intentions they will reveal themselves.

So painful self reflection/introspection is not a typical psychedelic experience but playing with imaginary friends is? Ok buddy.. I saw the thread in which you drew pictures of these "entities" and if I remember rightly at least one of them was from the effects of mushrooms? DMT, I can't comment on cause I haven't used enough of it but if you are reporting this shit on mushrooms then I must say that I have a hard time believing your claims or think that maybe you have difficulty distinguishing between what's real & what's not.

And what revelations have you received from these "entities" If you don't mind me asking? Do you just talk about the weather in their dimension or is it all deep n meaningful?

So hunab has had "very limited experience with subs" but the entities were good enough to visit him, I'm wondering hunab how much of this was closed eye hallucination and how much was open eye? Cause I'd have a hard time believing that you saw these beings with open eyes on mushrooms.. No matter how many you took.

And if it was closed eye then I've met plenty of beings.. & perceived the consciousness behind certain diseases and other life that apparently has no consciousness according to modern science, but how real these experiences were.. I'm not sure.

Iboga was interesting, the first time I thought I saw someone's finger peeling back the blinds out the corner of my eye, it seemed very real at the time, more so than anything on mushrooms.. But I can't say for sure that it was "the spirit of iboga" cause I had heard stories from other people about this and the mind can play tricks.. Not to mention that it is a powerful hallucinogen.

I have also taken ayahuasca and seen "entities" occult symbols, etc but I'm not sure how much of this is my own mind creating it.. Ironically part of my doubt stems from an article that you (hunab) posted claiming that blind people don't hallucinate because they have not seen the images for their brain to replay to them.. Where as others would have no doubt interpreted it all as "archetypes" etc, I'm not going to make that leap cause I have probably seen all these symbols, etc at some time in my life and I'm probably just hallucinating..

I am completely baffled why you bother attending a board that likes to entertain spiritual mystical experiences through plant spirits...oh but you probably don't believe they exist either do you..?

First of all.. Not everyone here believes in sentient plant spirits!! Perhaps you should have asked Torsten and others whether they share your beliefs before trying to make me feel out of place .

There are a few nice people here who do believe this I'm sure, Julian being one of them.. No offense to them, we just have a slight difference of opinion that's all.

I'm a little surprised by the unwillingness of some to consider other explanations, it's like heresy to question these "plant teachers", "entities" etc for some people.. Surprising too considering that some of you are science students who are supposed to question everything.. Have you never heard of Occams razor, Descartes, The scientific method.. etc?

Since your so fkn cocky about it hunab how 'bout you tell me all about these "plant spirits".. Is it only the hallucinogenic ones that have "spirits"?

Well Baph is nice to see you posting some relevant and interesting info...for once your post isn't as cynical and abrasive as others... All the telepathic and entitiy activity was closed eyed...I already said that in an earlier post...in fact I could only reach that level laying in a certain position with eyes closed.

I don't know why you say I'm cocky about plant spirits... you have slid that one under me for some unknown reason, but anyway I can tell you that very recently on some liquid I was pondering how cool my plants look whilst chilling in my yard....there is a very old diseased peach tree next door to me that hangs over one side of the fence in my yard and it irritates me in summer as it drops tons of rotten peaches into my yard...I have hacked off many of its branches that cross over to my side of the yard to help avoid the dropping rotten fruits...anyways this one afternoon I was tripping I looked up at the tree and had my usual thoughts of dislike for the tree and I wanted to poison it because it's full of disease anyways ...well it started saying to me in my mind please don't kill me I am a very old dignified tree and I wish to be left alone and die gracefully in my own time...I was shocked to say the least and have not had thoughts about harming it since...I have told this story to others in the past too as it was really very interesting....so to answer your questions not just psychedelic plants have spirits ...the whole plant and animal kingdom has guardians or gatekeepers of some sort....I truly believe this...you don't have to believe me but it's what I believe and it makes sense to me.

The alien phenomenon does appear new and a lot of people have seemingly jumped on this..... for lack of a better word "bandwagon" but like all new discoveries there is always a start point of discovery so perhaps the contacts have only started to become recent as these beings have only begun to be available in more recent times, but I would think that it's just our interpretations of them as the Egyptians and Aztecs and Maya also have said to have seen and vision other worldly creatures ...they just didn't use the word alien...which can mean any being that is unfamiliar looking to us really and nothing more.

When you talk about you and your mates taking mushies in the bush around campfires and drinking the tea and laughing etc that sounds very familiar and that is the typical mushroom trip/vibe when with friends and outside etc. When one chooses to make a setting and create a quiet space and time and really set a scene and setting and ingest large dosages looking for a deeper diagnostic experience then laughing and all that stuff around the camp fire isn't what one is looking for if you get my drift...the 2 scenarios are completely different there fore different tripping models are attained in my opinion anyways. I suggest you try a full on experience in a quiet setting in a comfortable place like your bedroom and dose it up and darken the room put on some tunes and lay back and really open yourself up...I'd like to know if you could do that and then compare the experience before you ridicule others etc.

First of all.. Not everyone here believes in sentient plant spirits!! Perhaps you should have asked Torsten and others whether they share your beliefs before trying to make me feel out of place .

What in the world would I ask Torsten his beliefs in plant spirits for.... and why does me believing in them make you feel out of place...?

I've told you before I don't give a rats arse what others think of me so it's of no value asking others do they also believe, for me to try and fit in...that's just silly and I don't understand your reasoning.

Well on second thoughts I will now just to satisfy my curiosity ask Torsten does he believe in plant spirits and other dimensional activity and beings.

H.

[santiago]

ill have to research it more but alien abduction seems to have something to do with DMT, not the home made version but the naturaly occuring stuff that is made in the brain, where dreams are formed in REM and what is released prior to death to ease you in...cant remember for my life where i saw it and its totally unrelated to anything barr the prior reference to alien abduction but if i find it again ill post a link.

really interesting thread, hunab is getting caned and baphomet seems to be the evil conscience but i have only skimmed through this and cant wait to re analyse it, on one hand we all want to believe in something 'extra' probably we have all come close to some percieved entity but on the other hand for every story about UFOs, god, monsters, elvis still being alive, zombies, ghosts etc etc there is not anywhere on planet earth, any person, any corporation or any group, anybody that has any definitive proof that anything other than our own existance exists.

[incognito]

ill have to research it more but alien abduction seems to have something to do with DMT, not the home made version but the naturaly occuring stuff that is made in the brain,

try large dose sanpedro

[Chiral]

ill have to research it more but alien abduction seems to have something to do with DMT, not the home made version but the naturaly occuring stuff that is made in the brain,

try large dose sanpedro

hahah I remember that post Jono...you never did really give us a full report on that episode....I think Gilligan said you got in touch with aliens because you had a satellite dish up your arse from memory LOL...but yeah I'd love to hear more about that Pedro expedition....what is considered a large mescaline dose as I am aware that 500mg is a totally full on experience but with tea made brews it's impossible to tell how much mesc is in the brew to quantify.

Coin that link you posted was an amazing read and simply reinforces my experiences the similarities are frighteningly similar.

for those that didn't read it I suggest you have a read it's very good.

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v07n1/07112bea.html

H.

[incognito]

hahah I remember that post Jono...you never did really give us a full report on that episode....I think Gilligan said you got in touch with aliens because you had a satellite dish up your arse from memory LOL...but yeah I'd love to hear more about that Pedro expedition....what is considered a large mescaline dose as I am aware that 500mg is a totally full on experience but with tea made brews it's impossible to tell how much mesc is in the brew to quantify.

Coin that link you posted was an amazing read and simply reinforces my experiences the similarities are frighteningly similar.

for those that didn't read it I suggest you have a read it's very good.

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v07n1/07112bea.html

H.

dont wanna post that for fear of promoting REALLY stoopid things to do....

[incognito]

mesc is only part of the mixture when ur talking brews.

[Chiral]

I think we touched on this story at camping but I can't remember what was said...perhaps our next jaunty out into the woods you can tell us the story again...

[baphomet]

I am completely baffled why you bother attending a board that likes to entertain spiritual mystical experiences through plant spirits...oh but you probably don't believe they exist either do you..?

I don't know why you say I'm cocky about plant spirits...What in the world would I ask Torsten his beliefs in plant spirits for.... ?

Cause maybe he and many other long term members don't believe in them either? And that would make you look kinda silly I guess.. (For presuming that they do and generalising by saying that "this board likes to entertain spiritual mystical experiences through plant spirits" and then saying "oh but you probably don't believe they exist either do you..?".. that was the cocky part you asked me to point out). Your statement was a perfect example of the condescending/exclusionist mentality that I was referring to.. Your all so superior to others who aren't in direct communication with the fairy folk .

Edit: In case you need another example, here's one from 'holymountain': if i was an entity i wouldn't waste my time with you. not everyone gets the honour of encountering entities

All the telepathic and entitiy activity was closed eyed...I already said that in an earlier post...in fact I could only reach that level laying in a certain position with eyes closed.

Ok, sorry. Have a look back and you might see how one could be a little confused about that though, I seem to remember something about you seeing "a white flickering energy field around the room" too.

Edited May 11, 2009 by baphomet

[Chiral]

this board likes to entertain spiritual mystical experiences through plant spirits" and then saying "oh but you probably don't believe they exist either do you..?

Well just to clarify I did not say that every board member entertains plant spirits etc...my comment was more of a generalisation of potentially most of the members here....it's ill worded if anything.

Your all so superior to others who aren't in direct communication with the fairy folk

Actually where I come from and have spent a great deal of time in my life over in Wales and the UK legends of Merlin and elves and fairy folk lore is very common and very interesting....what is also interesting is that being in another country changes your trip somewhat to what I can only describe as local mythology or lore visuals and interactions....for instance Chowing down Liberty caps from Wales always gave the most profound imagery of fairies and elves and Celtic knot work etc...I used to really dig those times and would catch a train out to Wales and pick all day and sit and trip and see fairies and goblins....I've yet to see anything like that here in OZ with local mushrooms...just thought it was interesting is all.

oh and by the way I've never thought I was ever superior to anyone Baph...just ask my father he will confirm my uselessness and stupidity for you.

H.

[incognito]

Cause maybe he and many other long term members don't believe in them either? And that would make you look kinda silly I guess..

i dont want to enter into a shitfight, but how the fuck would that make Hunab look silly? everyones entitled to their opinion, chill out i think think ur flogging a dead horse with this approach here baph.

It personally doesnt bother me what u do or dont believe in, you, Hunab , or T or anyone else on this board concerning the reality of seperate entitys.

Isnt it all about personal experience and understanding?? isnt that what where here to do??

Whyyyyyyy cant we all just get along?????????????????????

Hunab beleieves what he does, U believe what u do, t believes what he does.... Isnt that great????

why cant we share this without judging and ripping the fuck out of each other????

edit- "a white flickering energy field around the room" too.

hmmm so whats so unusual with that???

im gonna get my head bitten of here but i have to ask......

how experienced in partaking in the psychadelic experience are you baph?

back in the day when sal was legal at concentrated doses this is definately not unusual, infact would be one of the normalest occurances.

i cant see how an experienced psycho0 would consider this unusual and unbelievable!!!

ur iboga experience seems to be quite tame, from personal experience u need to up the dose!!!!!

alas if u have partaken(what the fuck would i know what u have and havent experienced) in quite strong hallucinogens i fail to see why u cant have an understanding of why people have experiences with such phenomena. May not make them Real (but who r we to judge what is and whats not real) but it is definately what people are experiencing.

I like u baph and u are here for a reason that is known to only you, but im betting u r not the gruff soul that u often portray urself to be.

I think you have alot to offer once u drop ur defences an relax a bit.

Edited May 11, 2009 by incognito

[gilligan]

Whyyyyyyy cant we all just get along?????????????????????

Jeebus, not only do you want to marry teotz, but your starting to sound like him...

[incognito]

right ...thats the last slight on my beloved im gonna have from you gillagan u monkey spanker!

i take u up on said duel

[The Dude]

Jesus effing christ man!

so you don't believe in a deeper meaning or spiritual reality, good for you. Of which we speak will forever remain a mystery to you then. Some of us are busy engaging the mystery in an attempt to come to a deeper understanding of reality. So we share which sign posts we encounter on our journeys to see where we may be on the same path or have had similar insights.

Without trying to sound too judgmentful at the risk of further enforcing your apparent egoic defence mechanisms.... drop the ego. Who cares about some authorities seal of approval as to whether or not what you saw to be real.. really was real. Those of us having more 'enlightened' or 'expanded' minds that wish to share our interpretations of said headspaces will continue to do so regardless of your futile attempts to control via ridicule that which you do not understand and, it seems must subconsciously fear, for why else all the constant tirades against those even proposing such a perspective.

baphomet

Iboga was interesting, the first time I thought I saw someone's finger peeling back the blinds out the corner of my eye, it seemed very real at the time, more so than anything on mushrooms.. But I can't say for sure that it was "the spirit of iboga" cause I had heard stories from other people about this and the mind can play tricks.. Not to mention that it is a powerful hallucinogen.

I like the deep and meaningful symbology of someone's (who?) finger peeling back the blinds, out the corner of your eyes. This trivial hallucination could be realer than anything you've ever said on these boards if it actual meant something to you... but then it is a powerful hallucinogen which rules out any legitimacy of the vision a priori.. cuz it was all just a [fake] hallucination.

You often argue that we make such arrogant claims of being able to communicate to entities only as a means to fit in where in the above quote it is obvious your own perception of reality is tailored to fit in... To fit in to your reductionist paradigm of reality and the clique of people that think this way. One such reduction or cultural filter is the very notion that there being a cultural reference to spiritual realms must mean they cannot exist in their own right and MUST be a personal projection of this cultural influence. Secondly that a class of substance (within a culturally specific classification) dictates the validity of the personal experience had on said substance, and that these notions and classifications are of some absolute authority and not merely yet another creation of somebody's ego.

It is not arrogant to believe ones own experience, it is unfortunate to feel the need to have to doubt it in order to go along with past expectations and the consensus group mentality set out by some authorities of science or philosophy. Is it majority rules which dictates the truth to you baphomet? Why such a strict adherence to one belief system and such vehement ridicule of another? why?

*sigh* this isn't exclusion baphomet when we're doing our best to help you join us, seems a hallucinatory aspect of your self even lifted a finger but then the real you told him who's boss. good work maintaining the balance of power and reality in your favour... have fun with it.

"God who'd wanna be such a control freak" - Modest Mouse

santiago

there is not anywhere on planet earth, any person, any corporation or any group, anybody that has any definitive proof that anything other than our own existance exists.

I maintain that you are all actually in my head, therefore only my own existence exists, and i can be the most self obsessed wanker i want to be.. cuz "there is no you there is only me!" - NIN

[incognito]

shitfight alert!! i dunno ur post seems quite contradictory dude.

Edited May 11, 2009 by incognito

[baphomet]

i can be the most self obsessed wanker

Lol, no shitfight..

i dont want to enter into a shitfight, but how the fuck would that make Hunab look silly?

Cause he was implying that everyone on this board believes in "plant spirits", which I highly doubt.

im gonna get my head bitten of here but i have to ask......

how experienced in partaking in the psychadelic experience are you baph?

back in the day when sal was legal at concentrated doses this is definately not unusual, infact would be one of the normalest occurances.

I've smoked sal (when legal) and no flickering energy fields were seen.. Just laughed my ass off and felt weird, that's it (up to 25x, would like to try 100x).

I have had very little experience with other plants, I wouldn't dream of taking datura for example and I don't know why anyone would.. But I have had a hell of a lot of mushrooms so I feel I'm able to comment, had it been DMT in question, I would have remained silent like I said.

ur iboga experience seems to be quite tame, from personal experience u need to up the dose!!!!!

I'm scared I'll have a heart attack , how much did you (or your foaf) have?

who r we to judge what is and whats not real?

We are who we are.. Why can't we try to figure out what's real and discuss it openly & honestly?

Edited May 11, 2009 by baphomet

[coin]

like i said earlier...the experience of the 'logos' is common...to ascribe these voices to some kind of entity, or to perceive the dialogue as an interaction with an 'other,' doesn't seem like much of a stretch..especially when "it" is bringing through concepts or information that seem to be outside the realms of the idea we have of "what/who I am" is nothing new...it's not some recent phenomena at all.

it's quite typical that after the fact, very little of it can be remembered...it just leaves you with "a feeling" for what transpired. i was never sure if it was just that it was some kind of highly specific state-dependent cognition (which seems to lead serious psychonauts into pondering, devising and implemeneting integration techniques) or if it was just that the intensity of the trip engenders that mindset of intense "this is extreeemely significant!! - my life and the fate of the universe depends on it!!" while the egoless mind is working overtime integrating the internal sensory fireworks.. i think it's both

though i did find that there were usually some key ideas or phrases that would stick, and usually they were somehow life affirming and insightful - they had broken down a self-limiting blockage in the psyche. whether this realisation was brought to fruition or not would depend on how strongly the ego clung to the concept in question, in everyday consciousness, perhaps as a survival mechanism, and how much work you were willing to put in to bring it through & manifest it. then there are some realisations that can't be ignored..they just 'click' and it's done.

meditation 'retreats' can have a similar effect...personally i found that the energy that can be drained by intense/frequent psychedelic trips (as well as other drugs) is the energy you need to maintain consistent & stable meditation practice. (in ayurveda called ojas, in TCM, i think is called jing qi) this depletion could be seen as one of the reasons hardcore trippers may burn-out and get really spacey or sick

Edited May 11, 2009 by coin

[baphomet]

I don't want to get sidetracked but.. What makes everyone so sure that these entities are "divine"? Assuming that they are real..

"SATAN himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness" (II Cor. 11:14)

[The Dude]

We are who we are.. Why can't we try to figure out what's real and discuss it openly & honestly?

If for any reason it may be from fear of ridicule from the likes of yourself. proposing a theory is one thing, deconstructing and interpreting the theory is another, being a hardline skepticism nazi enforcing your opinion via open ridicule of others... is another. Having nothing but skepticism and doubt of what is being said may be seen as critical thinking in some schools but its' seen as being stuck in your own reductionist paradigm here. Proposing that the belief in a spiritual family is some kind of communal delusion that nobody truly experiences, only pretends to to impress each other in front of... each other... seems like an idea that could only be spawned out of somebody stuck in such limiting group-think mentality.

Although there is many a reference to aliens, arch angels, spirits or entities from cave paintings to religious books to multi-billion dollar movie franchises it does not mean that these artistic influences are creating the deep inner spaces that we venture to, if anything it would be the other way around (chicken and egg dilemma).

Collating descriptions of entity contact with fiction may be one way of reducing the phenomena into an across the board case of hyper-active imagination and hallucinatory delusions appropriating fiction cuz thats what good influential drugged up minds do best. From an outsider perspective this view is easy to have, however tell that to the person that had a multi-dimensional experience of contact that is beyond any sort of egoic time/space reduction that works in this reality, hence it must be told symbolically or that is we can only represent and never show that which is beyond what we are right here/now.

That conviction in the reality of an eternal being is something we hold only to ourselves and it is unquantifiable and it is something you must choose to accept or not. If it's too out-there or deep and meaningful for you then you may continue to ignore it, just don't claim as some kind of authority that all these ideas are false and none of us have experienced contact with a higher power we only claim to for some kind of internet kudos. That is arrogance claiming that an entire section of a community experiencing relatively uniform phenomena must ALL be experiencing a collective delusion created for no other reason than to fit in, because you yourself have not seen this reality.

Who was the first crazy nutter to invent these entities and why did we all jump on the bandwagon i wonder? i mean from the delusions i've had they're a really cool idea and somehow align freaky co-incidences in what would normally gimme a good 'holy fucking shit' moment but due to my filters it's just another weird oddity of perfectly normal reality, where anything odd gets the occam's razor before any potential benefit could even be seen.

'Everytime I plant a seed, he say "kill them before they grow"' - Bob Marley.

[edit] on the legitimacy of discussing and interpreting phenomena from a spiritual perspective:

Extrapolations of allegorical meaning from ones personal experience onto the entire cosmos itself IS the domain of spirituality and philosophy discussions. If life is not a metaphor and we cannot take our mundane lives as being profound in their meaning, well it kind of defeats the purpose of discussing any such spiritual realities if they are a priori forbidden.

Lastly... the whole line of questioning are THEY good or evil? are THEY divine? ... seems to stem from a mis-appreciation of what THEY are. If you have any more questions consult your local psilocybe.

Edited May 12, 2009 by The Dude

[baphomet]

Bob Marley was an idiot who believed that Emperor Haile Selassie was the reincarnation of Jesus

"Bob Marley isn't my name. I don't even know my name yet." -Bob Marley

[t st tantra]

activity of shrooms reduces with time unless vit c is added.......a 1000g of old dried shrooms could have no actives in them.......until vit c is added....

hunab appears to have asked for help and experienced a supra self meta program.......

t s t .