pet shaman's

[trucha]

I'd suggest dosing any animal without their consent, whether that be a human or a cat, should be thought of as a form of assault. It does not merit committing an additional act of assault though.

When using violence to address violence one's intended good becomes indistinguishable with the evil they sought to overcome (to badly paraphrase the I Ching)

[Fenris]

From http://www.forteantimes.com/reviews/books/...ychedelics.html

Animals and Psychedelics

Author: Giorgio Samorini

Publisher: Park Street Press

Isbn: 0 892819863

A study of The Natural World and the Instinct to Alter Consciousness

By Mark Pilkington May 2002

It’s not natural” is a refrain we hear time and again from the more conservative elements of our society, often as a protest against homosexuality, but also as an admonition on the joys of intoxication.

Bruce Bagemihl’s groundbreaking Biological Exhuberance – which details homosexual and autosexual behaviour in hundreds of species of animals – comprehensively demolishes the first argument, and is heavy enough to be useful in battering the message home if needs be. Samorini’s slender tome may not be much use in a fight, but in the right hands the information it contains has the potential to spark a revolution.

The bottom line: animals like to get high – hundreds of animal species, from the ant to the elephant, actively seek out hallucinogenic plants. Samorini is careful to distinguish between accidental intoxication – nature’s equivalent of being spiked – and the deliberate, methodical, at times even aggressive search for psychedelic satisfaction. This somewhat startling fact raises vital questions, not least that of animal consciousness.

If even an ant can tell the difference between being straight and high, in this instance by sucking secretions from the abdomen of a lomechusa beetle, what does this tell us about the consciousness of something like a mandrill, which munches the intensely potent iboga root, then waits up to two hours for the effects to kick in before engaging in territorial battle with another mandrill? Equally fascinating is the fact that many animals appear to use psychedelics recreationally – and that not all individuals of a particular species will indulge, just as some humans are more partial to tripping out than others. One in the eye for the stark behaviourists, it would seem.

All of Samorini’s evidence comes from first-hand observation by himself and others, though it is of the “we gave an elephant 300 tabs of LSD, it keeled over and died” school of science. But he does take great delight in describing the orderly queues formed by his neighbourhood cats as they take hits on his catnip plant; or of being butted out of the way by an Alpine goat who thought he was going to munch a clump of tasty psilocybin mushrooms before it did.

Too careful to speculate at any length on why animals take drugs, here Samorini concedes to Ronald K Siegel (from whose Intoxication much of the observational material is also drawn) and Edward de Bono. Siegel suggests that intoxication is an evolutionary force, while de Bono talks of the value of depatterning in evolutionary development – forcing the mind to break with established routines and habits, and so discover new approaches to important matters of survival.

Unquestionably, certain psychedelic plants also improve perception and sharpen the senses, giving the psychedelicised predator, or prey, a distinct evolutionary advantage. But if Samorini won’t speculate, we certainly can. If animals use psychedelic drugs, and we know that Stone Age humans did, and presumably their ancestors, might we not wonder – in Terence McKenna mode – what kind of role they played in the evolution of human consciousness?

Unfortunately this is a short book, an overview rather than an in-depth study, but that necessary work will surely come. Until then, this must be one of the most inspiring books about animals – or drugs – that you are likely to read.

One hundred pages of animal magic

[Ace]

I'm not saying it is not natural. I have a strong dislike for the encouragement of dosing animals simply because a lot of the time it is a bunch of people sitting round having a smoke with a pet in the room, then one of the people get the 'great' idea that the dog would love some. They then grab the dog by the collar, hold them while someone else blows smoke in their face. I've also heard of people thinking that fish like alcohol, then once the fish are swimming around in a nice mix of watered down beer, they go belly up. How is that natural?

What IS natural is when an animal eats a psychoactive plant (such as cannabis or m/mushrooms) on their own accord in the wild. It is up to that animal if they want to go back for more later down the track. If you encourage your animals to consume a drug on their own accord (like putting some mushrooms or a cookie on the ground) might be somewhat more responsible, it can still be seen as abuse (most dogs will eat anything that their owner gives them simply because they trust their owner). The only way (IMO) that an animal can be seen as consuming something on their own accord is when they have access to the plants (or other substances - but IMO that is beyond going too far... giving an animal something synthetic to get them high is just fcked up) in the wild (or a backyard) and they are interested enough to go back for more.

Why do the pets need to be high just to get you to bond with them more? You can still be high and enjoy their company on a new level - there is cetrtainly no need to pin them down or encourage them to eat something that can have a pretty negative experience.

I dunno, this is just my opinion. We all have one

[trucha]

I agree that altering consciousness is a normal and natural drive of animals not just the human animal.

It still should be the choice of the animal being altered not another animal thinking they should be choosing that for them.

Samorini's original title "Animals that drug themselves" perhaps summed it up (it sucks they had to dumb it down when going into English - much, if not most, of Samorini's book is not even about psychedelics but I guess the publisher thought it would sell more copies with that title?- I need daylight to find the first edition of the book in order to get the exact Italian wording of the original)

I know some people who love 500 mikes but I also saw a friend get that same dose a several years ago without his consent or knowledge and have a horrible and traumatic meltdown experience that caused him to avoid tripping entirely for a long while.

Its worth asking what the motivation is to choose to think how we can know what another being's consciousness should be and how we have the wisdom to make that decision for them?

Some animals like being dosed, some like being stoned. some like being drunk, some like being stimulated, some like being narcoticized. Same with humans alteration of consciousness is not a one size fits all thing. An animal (human or not) that likes mushrooms may loathe alcohol and vice versa. It might loathe them both and prefer a dose of caffeine.

I'd be really annoyed if someone slipped me alcohol or mushrooms or cannabis baked goods without my consent as it would be deciding for me how I should spend those next hours for me when I might in fact prefer to be doing something else.

I can't speak for someone else or someone else's cat. I do think some of the opinions expressed are pretty overreactive but I would suggest that is the point people are trying to make.

Its not the alteration of consciousness itself that is objectionable but the notion that someone would choose that for another without their consent.

[ThunderIdeal]

i'm just gonna try to stir some shit up here. for the record i think it's wrong, but not the end of the world.

we constantly label other people 'unable to make the right decisions for themselves'. the mentally handicapped, the very old, the unstable, and virtually all children up to a certain age. children are considered smarter than animals.

who CAN make the right decisions for themselves (or others) anyway?

a drugging is certainly a case of assault, i can't question that, but assault isn't always the wrong thing to do.

what is right and wrong anyway?

do we know anything?

RISE UNCERTAINTY, RISE FOR ERIS!

[trucha]

Good and evil are most often entirely a point of view not absolutes.

If I eat a fish that is good for me but that fish certainly is not going to agree with my actions if it could be asked.

THere is no real black and white but to play the devils advocate people claim they can override the desires of mentally ill, handicapped and old people for reasons of being unable to make decisions for themselves (something I think is applied more than is merited as it is often not really done for the best interest of the targeted individual but for benefit of the person doing it) but I would suggest a cat is generally capable of making sound decisions based on its world view. We might not agree with them when it comes to pissing on our pillows for not getting fed on time of course. That is one of those point of view issues.

Getting a cat high does not make someone an evil person but it still would be better if the cat chose its drugs. When I was in high school I met a girl a few years older than me with a kid. When Mom ran out of patience and wanted a break from her kid she would break out her bong and make the kid smoke enough hits of pot until said 5 year old was too wasted to cause her any hassles. I always found that dissettling. She was not an evil person but drugging another being without their consent just seemed off center. The Huichols let their kids eat peyote around that age but they don't make their kids dose. They let them choose whether they eat peyote.

Besides its easy to tell if an animal likes to get high if smoking in their presence. If so they will come around and hang out. If not they will leave. They get stoned quite readily from secondhand smoke.

As beings we really don't know shit. That is perhaps the only thing we can actually know with some certainty.

Edited September 6, 2007 by trucha

[ThunderIdeal]

thanks for making a serious response to my post, i didn't really expect one, or such a good one.

it's a great topic.

the huichols... obviously if you are gonna let kids take drugs, then that is the way to go about it (as well as providing them with accurate, neutral information). children in medieval europe were virtually like little adults. sometimes they still are, but in different ways, they certainly aren't made to work anymore in first world nations. it's easy to see that different cultures have very different ways of treating children, but unless that entails what is inarguably abuse, we all seem to turn out halfway semi-decent.

in life there are difficult ordeals, unpleasantness. there's a quote in 'bruce almighty' where god says "to paint a picture this beautiful, you need to use dark colours too". nothing seems ideal, but mayhap everything is. i'm almost sure that if everything was ideal, it would be far from ideal. i reckon the occasional shrooming feline is all part of the plan baby.

[Legba]

JUNKIE Pete Doherty is snapped appearing to give his kitten crack — from a mini-pipe he made specially for it.

Sickened pals who leaked the picture claimed the warped rocker regularly gets the pet smashed.

They said it PASSES OUT with its paws in the air, suffers MOOD SWINGS and even thinks it can FLY.

One added: “In Pete’s mind it is the only one who understands him now.”

The Babyshambles frontman’s cat Dinger — named after a slang term for a syringe — had five kittens in April.

The friend said: “One in particular has borne the brunt of his drug abuse. Pete thinks it’s hilarious to get it wasted.

“He even made a special mini-crack pipe out of a bottle so it can get the maximum hit.

“But the kitten is starting to get really bad withdrawal symptoms.

“It has lost some of its balance and takes huge risks jumping over things that are too high. It thinks it can fly. It’s really distressing to see.”

Doherty, 28, tried in vain to woo back supermodel lover Kate Moss, 33, by sending her a framed photograph of her with Dinger — with the scrawled message: “There’s no place like home.”

He is currently in rehab before a court appearance on October 2 for possessing crack, heroin, ketamine and cannabis.

Last night the RSPCA said of the kitten picture: “It is hard to launch an investigation into possible abuse from just a photograph. There needs to be more evidence.”

# DOHERTY’S kitten is not the first animal with addiction problems. In 2005 The Sun told how squirrels in Brixton, South London, became hooked on crack cocaine hidden by addicts in gardens.

Residents said the tufties had bloodshot eyes and were “digging desperately” in flower-beds.

In the US, crack squirrels are a recognised problem in New York and Washington DC parks.

thesun.co.uk

[goldfinger]

hahhahahaha

The crack squirrels worry me

[PhantomTurkey]

I don't support the idea giving an animal any sort of mind altering substance. It might freak them out and it may even kill your pet. Animals are different from humans and may react differently to the drug in question. Any intake of a psychoactive should be voluntary not pushed upon people or animals.

[flora]

chocolate for example can kill dogs. they cant metabolise it

i read in an Indian herb book that while strychnine is used to kill rodents and dogs, cats can tolerate 'a fair deal of it'

[chilli]

My cats were definitely getting wasted off the catnip on Christmas... what's with that anyway? They only seem to have to inhale the scent to get affected.

[flora]

on the topic: chimp shamans! http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/26/2127563.htm

Chimps at forefront of drug research

Posted Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:08pm AEDT

Chimpanzees' self-medication could guide scientists towards new molecules, and potentially new drugs.

Ugandan and French scientists have for months been observing the behaviour of a group of chimpanzees whose uncanny aptitude for self-medication could help their human cousins discover new drugs.

The great apes' ability to treat ailments by adjusting their diet has long been observed by scientists, including world-renowned primatologist Jane Goodall, but a project in Uganda's Kibale forest offers a unique opportunity for pharmaceutical research.

Sabrina Krief is a French veterinarian and professor at the Paris National History Museum.

"It's the first time that a chimpanzee observation aimed at discovering new medicine for humans is conducted within a scientific framework," she said.

John Kasenene, a professor of botanics at the University of Makerere, says Uganda is an ideal research ground for the scientists' double mission of better understanding the chimps' behaviour and using them as guides towards new molecules, and potentially new drugs.

"Uganda happens to be a country where eight of the 16 centres of endemic plants in the whole of Africa converge," he said.

The Ugandan university is conducting the project in partnership with the Natural History Museum in Paris, France's National Centre for Scientific Research and the Uganda Wildlife Authority.

Should a new drug be discovered through the project, the memorandum of understanding signed by all the partners includes a revenue-sharing clause.

Kibale's chimps

The Kibale equatorial forest, located about 250 kilometres west of the capital, Kampala, offers a high concentration of primates.

"There are very few research stations in the world where chimps have been so well accustomed to being in the presence of human observers," says Dr Krief, who heads the chimp project there.

The key moment in the observation is when one among the group of around 50 chimps she monitors gets sick.

The primate's choice of food during illness is packed with information that could lead the scientists to new discoveries.

At dawn, the researchers collect the animal's faeces from under that night's nest and carry out a range of analyses.

Traditional medicine

Dr Krief says a chimp named Yogi, suffering from intestinal worms, ingested aneilema aequinoctiale leaves in the morning and albizia grandibracteata bark in the evening.

Such plants have been used in human traditional medicine in some areas, and the Kibale team later confirmed through in vitro testing that they acted against parasites.

Another male chimpanzee who had been feverish and weak was observed eating only trichilia rubescens leaves for a whole day.

The plants' molecules, later isolated by the scientists in a laboratory, were found to be effective against malaria.

"These findings have allowed us to discover new plant molecules with significant properties against malaria, worms or tumours," Dr Krief said.

"It's quite rare to find active molecules but especially new molecules which might put us on the path to developing new pharmaceuticals."

Around 100 different kinds of plants have already been sampled in Kibale since the start of 2007.

- AFP

[ThunderIdeal]

i'm told different cats dose up differently, some roll all over it and chew it.

good article.

[Genesis]

Yer animals should stay off the drugs. For example:

 

Quite fucked up, I recommend you don't watch it if you are an animal lover.

And as for your buddy feeding their cat a shrooms, thats really not cool. My Pa's dog is a booze hound (Pardon the pun). Any empty bottles laying around quickly get dragged away and licked at untill they are free from dregs. God knows how he learnt to do it, I think it was just something he tried one day and enjoyed.

Gen

*Edit: Deleted HTML*

Edited January 12, 2008 by Genesis

[ThunderIdeal]

the cat video has been discussed here and people concluded from other cat on acid research, that the cat in that video was on something quite different.

[Fenris]

My dog has been licking things recently and it made me think if he got really bad and was obsessive/compulsive about licking me or his toys or something like that, would it be bad for me to feed him something that has been known to help people with OCD.

This is purely conjecture but would dosing a pet and getting it high be considered morally acceptable if the reason was for attempting to cure a mental health problem?

I believe that most psychedelics are to varying degrees medicinal, and if the administration was for therapeutic use I don't think I would have too much guilt over a small dose if it was in the dogs interest. As long as I was there for moral support.