Do we really need more erotic art threads?

[Foo]

Halcyon i dont think your thread is a major issue, its just that you created the last one.

I agree that so far it is of a much higher caliber then the other porn threads and would almost class ass artistic in my mind.

[Anodyne]

...would almost class ass artistic in my mind.

Classy ass indeed.

[Halcyon Daze]

This is actually quite an introspective thread and (I'm sorry for getting so defensive). I used to be a lot more open with my ethno stuff but thanks to all the new hardcore laws I'm more inclined to UTSE and PM others rather than make my by business public.

Plus I don't touch Facebook so I guess this is also one of the main places I visit for my daily social media hit.

Long live The Corroboree!

[Foo]

Classy ass indeed.

LOL, oops!

[AnthromorphicGerbil]

I eagerly await the day that sanity prevails and cannabis is legalized for the growing and uses of responsible adults. When that day comes I will grow some and post pictures of nekkid female cannabis plants for everyone to admire. If I was having a seed breeding season (in this apparently utopian imagination of mine) I would consider posting pictures of some nekkid male cannabis plants for those inclined :--))

[quarterflesh]

I always find something to add to the cactus porn thread. Its a must.

[ballzac]

I can see the novelty value in cactus porn, but do we really need threads and threads of naked ladies?

I've heard you say if enough threads pop up about a particular topic to indicate that there is significant interest in that topic, then you might start a new subforum for it

We have plenty of threads here about topics that aren't particularly related to ethnobotany, and many of them are more common than the porn threads.

 

I would especially like to hear from the women members [privately if you prefer]. Do these threads put you off?

The implication being that women are highly sensitive and must be protected from being offended? Every member of these forums is an adult (as far as I know), and should be capable of making the decision not to click on a thread tagged "NSFW" if they think they will find the content distasteful.

[teonanacatl]

I will add to my previous comment- I have no ethical or moral objection to porn threads, I just dont think they are important for SAB.

[El Presidente Hillbillios]

This is actually quite an introspective thread and (I'm sorry for getting so defensive). I used to be a lot more open with my ethno stuff but thanks to all the new hardcore laws I'm more inclined to UTSE and PM others rather than make my by business public.

Plus I don't touch Facebook so I guess this is also one of the main places I visit for my daily social media hit.

Long live The Corroboree!

The forum has changed a fair bit in the last few years, i think this could be a big part of the explanation why

[tripsis]

Porn can be great and it has it's place, but that place doesn't really feel like it's here.

The implication being that women are highly sensitive and must be protected from being offended? Every member of these forums is an adult (as far as I know), and should be capable of making the decision not to click on a thread tagged "NSFW" if they think they will find the content distasteful.

I went to a beach today with a friend. Unbeknownst to me, it turns out it was a nude beach, with an exclusively gay clientele, of mostly old and fat guys. At first, it didn't really bother us, but we soon became uncomfortable. Why? Because it became apparent that most eyes on that beach were on us, being the only two young and fit guys to be seen. Within a very short period of time, we had two separate guys approach us, sizing us up. For the record, I have nothing wrong with gays at all - I live with one gay guy and three lesbians. But when I go to the beach - or anywhere for that matter - it's nice to be able to just relax without people watching me and coming on to me. This experience was somewhat revelatory actually - I realised what it must be like for many girls almost all the time. So if this forum has a clear vein of male-oriented porn and the culture that surrounds that - no matter how much those who post said porn try to sell it off as tasteful art vs. porn - then I can well understand if some female members may feel uncomfortable as a result, irrespective of whether they click the thread or not.

[MikeyMagic]

Since pointed to this forum by an old friend, I have found some serenity that there are other individuals that to save too much explaination, "get it" and are trying to fix it with the strength of our combined knowledge of plants etc.

Unlike the mass of mindless sexbots breeding for the sake of breeding due to the emptiness they feel due to their breeding programing!

The trouble with raising conciousness in individuals, and society, of what is really going on is that focus wanes with distractions.

"Conciousness" flickers on and off in most individuals giving the impression that they are "aware".

Maintaining that conciousness continuesly depends on many things, and these "things" that distract erode focus on consiousness expansion IMO.

Besides, this would be the thin end of the wedge and/or another thing to monitor.

Although I am a male, I have had deep emotional damage from the age of 8 with regards to sex which was the catalyst for me seeking the truth.

The "Sexbot" programming is full of lies IMO and threads of naked bodies would bring too many bad memories and feelings back for me,

Please remove such threads.

A coral reef might be beautiful, but do you really want to sail the good ship SAB over them?

[gtarman]

The "Sexbot" programming is full of lies IMO and threads of naked bodies would bring too many bad memories and feelings back for me,

Please remove such threads.

Sorry to hear about your past troubles mate. Although I still don't think it's necessarily right for us to remove or censor a particular type of content based on the fact that it might not be wanted by some people - if we view SAB as analogous to society at large (which for the sake of this discussion I think we can), this is like saying that because some people don't like porn or feel negatively affected by it, that it should be banned and abolished and stamped out altogether.

And I think the sensible/responsible thing to do in this case is just as it is in society at large - clearly mark it as what it is and restrict where it is displayed, so that those who don't wish to see it don't have to look at it, and those who do or who don't care get their side counted for as well. For example, just think of a newsagency - you wouldn't expect them to remove their adult magazines section because it offends some customers, but they do manage to strike a compromise that the vast majority of people accept by keeping it inconspicuous.

Again, I'm sorry to hear that you have had such negative experiences, but for many people the opposite is true, and I personally wouldn't consider sex to be something that drags humanity down - I feel (for myself personally, at least) that it's one of the peaks of the human experience. But I don't expect everyone to feel that way, and I don't request that rules be made that accommodate only my viewpoint, if that makes sense.

I'm neither here nor there in regards to caring whether I can see this kind of stuff at SAB or not (like people say, it's everywhere anyway), but I think the principle behind the argument is worth looking at.

EDIT: not trying to tell anyone what to do, just arguing my point of view. I imagine SAB would go downhill rather quickly if such things were up to me

Edited December 2, 2013 by gtarman

[ballzac]

 

Sorry to hear about your past troubles mate. Although I still don't think it's necessarily right for us to remove or censor a particular type of content based on the fact that it might not be wanted by some people - if we view SAB as analogous to society at large (which for the sake of this discussion I think we can), this is like saying that because some people don't like porn or feel negatively affected by it, that it should be banned and abolished and stamped out altogether.

I don't think it's necessarily about what is "right". This is a private space, and it's "right" for people to be allowed to post whatever the owner of the space decides is in keeping with how he thinks the forum should present itself. So, while I do agree that any internet forum is a microcosm of society at large, the same ethical issues about free speech do not come into play. We do, as a community get to decide whether this is okay with us by choosing to use the service, or not. I cannot say that I am happy about any restrictions on how people express themselves, short of directing abuse at other members, and this includes posting pornographic pictures as well as holocaust denialism and any other crazy shit that has been posted here over the years. But I can also say that I think this place is one of the most accommodating places when it comes to allowing differing viewpoints, and I think it's unlikely that anyone would leave if porn got banned from here.

 

I'm neither here nor there in regards to caring whether I can see this kind of stuff at SAB or not (like people say, it's everywhere anyway), but I think the principle behind the argument is worth looking at.

I'm totally with you there. I couldn't care less if more circle-jerk threads pop up or not, but given a chance, I would vote against preventing people from starting them.

 

threads of naked bodies would bring too many bad memories and feelings back for me,

Please remove such threads.

I am genuinely sorry that you have had a rough time, but if images of naked bodies are traumatising for you, I can't help but feel that maybe you need help beyond being shielded from them. If every single person decided they wanted content removed because it bothered them, there would be no threads left on these boards.

[gtarman]

I don't think it's necessarily about what is "right". This is a private space, and it's "right" for people to be allowed to post whatever the owner of the space decides is in keeping with how he thinks the forum should present itself.

Absolutely. My post is just my personal view on it at the end of the day. It's Torsten's call when push comes to shove, and I'm alright with whatever option he goes with. His judgements (not to discount those of the mods and others) thus far seem to have created the kind of online community I'm happy to call myself a part of anyway.

Edited December 2, 2013 by gtarman

[paradox]

i know what people are saying but it's far from looking like the shroomery here in my opinion. though i haven't been there for at least 6 years.. in my opinion nsfw threads can have their place just as long as they have a point & aren't just some young guys wank bank.. like the cactus porn thread is obviously related to the forum & has some comical & shock value that makes it interesting.. the recent arty nude thread i think is related in a broad sense.. it's for the most part unoffensive & we're all more or less interested in human beauty.. out of the three threads that have popped up in recent history i think the redheads thread is least appropriate, just for the fact that if theres a redhead thread then there may as well be ten thousand other seperate porno threads catering to everyones preferences & then we would have a issue..

i think if it's a point of contention the best solution may be to limit it to a small number of broadly categorized threads & everything people want to post can go in one of those..

if you have an issue with porn & you can't resist opening a page clearly marked nsfw then what are you doing on the internet?

[Halcyon Daze]

Don't forget the mermaids thread that had some funny ones and some real shockers.

My thread is the least hardcore of them all and seems to have caused the most controversy for some reason.

Maybe it was the catalyst for a long overdue "good hard look at ourselves" as a community

[Torsten]

None of the previous threads are 'worse' than any other. I liked the cactus porn thread simply because it was a novelty plant porn thread. ie it took some imagination and humour.

I also seriously love nude art [my ex does nude art modeling in his spare time]. But if that was the intention of the latest thread then the title is misleading. The title is more an indication of "let's leer some more at naked women". It is specifically about ladies and while many pictures are artistic, some are simply erotic.

If it wasn't just another eye candy thread, then make that clear. Maybe discuss the images for their special values rather than just pasting them for their simple visual titillation. I have spent many hours on deviantart.com and it is easy to see where the emphasis is on art and where it is on nudity, so this thread really doesn't do it for me in terms of artistic value. An easy way to tell the two apart is how they appeal to you regardless of gender. ie, imagine the same shot, but of the opposite sex, and then think whether you still find that as interesting. If the answer is no then chances are you are using the label of art to justify nudity.

The argument that 'if you can't handle the internet then get off it' also doesn't wash with me. This forum has always protected noobs, minorities, and those with weaknesses in the way they socialise. That is because I have found over the years that these people often have just as much [if not more] valuable things to share, but are not as confident to do so. Whether we like it or not and whether it is justified or not, the boys club mentality and the objectification of women does contribute to them feeling treated different to men. eg, if we had an equal number of respective gender nudity threads, or even a ratio that is representative of the gender balance on these forums, then this may not have even raised an eyebrow. But it did. If I notice it then so will others.

The PM feedback i have received is also proof that this is an issue. A minor one, but regardless. No one has said that they are offended by it, but the general concensus is that it makes them feel treated differently. Just like they are often treated differently by certain members. And if you think that's OK, then once again reverse the situation and ask yourself if it is still normal, acceptable and appreciated. My guess is the answers would be yes, maybe, and unlikely.

One PM responder has also finally explained why we have so many women 'hiding' their gender. Apparently it used to be an optional setting, but at some stage it became a compulsory setting [not my doing]. It also appears to have defaulted all prior non-gender members to male. I will check if I can disable this again.

I presume that simply raising this issue will have an impact on the genesis of such threads in future. I certainly don't want to censor. I feel it is much better if members understand why it is an issue and how they affect other members. This forum is not about pushing the boundaries of freedom and anarchy - it is about creating a safe but open space for primarily on-topic discussion. if the social side of the forum impacts on that then that needs to become a secondary consideration.

[paradox]

yeah the title of the the thread in question actually sounds a little crass to me, like the title of something in a b-grade bogan soft porno mag. like it's trying to sound classy but just comes across as creepy.. no offense HD. i different title might present the thread more in the way you intended..

[gtarman]

None of the previous threads are 'worse' than any other. I liked the cactus porn thread simply because it was a novelty plant porn thread. ie it took some imagination and humour.

I also seriously love nude art [my ex does nude art modeling in his spare time]. But if that was the intention of the latest thread then the title is misleading. The title is more an indication of "let's leer some more at naked women". It is specifically about ladies and while many pictures are artistic, some are simply erotic.

If it wasn't just another eye candy thread, then make that clear. Maybe discuss the images for their special values rather than just pasting them for their simple visual titillation. I have spent many hours on deviantart.com and it is easy to see where the emphasis is on art and where it is on nudity, so this thread really doesn't do it for me in terms of artistic value. An easy way to tell the two apart is how they appeal to you regardless of gender. ie, imagine the same shot, but of the opposite sex, and then think whether you still find that as interesting. If the answer is no then chances are you are using the label of art to justify nudity.

The argument that 'if you can't handle the internet then get off it' also doesn't wash with me. This forum has always protected noobs, minorities, and those with weaknesses in the way they socialise. That is because I have found over the years that these people often have just as much [if not more] valuable things to share, but are not as confident to do so. Whether we like it or not and whether it is justified or not, the boys club mentality and the objectification of women does contribute to them feeling treated different to men. eg, if we had an equal number of respective gender nudity threads, or even a ratio that is representative of the gender balance on these forums, then this may not have even raised an eyebrow. But it did. If I notice it then so will others.

The PM feedback i have received is also proof that this is an issue. A minor one, but regardless. No one has said that they are offended by it, but the general concensus is that it makes them feel treated differently. Just like they are often treated differently by certain members. And if you think that's OK, then once again reverse the situation and ask yourself if it is still normal, acceptable and appreciated. My guess is the answers would be yes, maybe, and unlikely.

One PM responder has also finally explained why we have so many women 'hiding' their gender. Apparently it used to be an optional setting, but at some stage it became a compulsory setting [not my doing]. It also appears to have defaulted all prior non-gender members to male. I will check if I can disable this again.

I presume that simply raising this issue will have an impact on the genesis of such threads in future. I certainly don't want to censor. I feel it is much better if members understand why it is an issue and how they affect other members. This forum is not about pushing the boundaries of freedom and anarchy - it is about creating a safe but open space for primarily on-topic discussion. if the social side of the forum impacts on that then that needs to become a secondary consideration.

That's fair. I hadn't considered it from the perspective of it intimidating members away from wanting to participate in the Corroboree overall. And if that is happening then I would rather do without the threads in question if it means more activity on the ethnobotany side of things. After all the ridiculous laws and legal scares of the last couple years the last thing we need is more reasons for people to not want to participate in those discussions.

[Halcyon Daze]

Fair enough, constructive criticism is fine by me. So what should we do about this latest monster I've created?

I'll leave it up to you Torsten, feel free to lock it or whatever you decide is best.

If we're even going to have such an 'art' thread then we should start it all over again and I don't want to be the OP. Plus we should probably have it in the Chill space so people don't feel obliged to degenerate it.

If anyone wants to do it the right way then please feel free to do it. I don't want to be "in charge" or anything like that, -too many headaches for me.

So yeah, I reckon we should just shut down the thread since it's too controversial. And start a new one if we (as a community) want to.

Like I said, I'm happy to take part in it but I'm not going to be the original poster.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Halcyon Daze

[bullit]

I will add to my previous comment- I have no ethical or moral objection to porn threads, I just dont think they are important for SAB.

what bout this 1 ?? http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=35807&page=2