SAB & Koda got raided today

[space cadet swami]

While corporations may have more influence than they should, we live in a democracy and it is the representatives elected by us that make the laws.

Anyone who seriously thinks that we live in a democracy is kidding themselves. The perfect example of the joke that is known as democracy are the leaders of the 2 main parties, dickhead #1 & dickhead #2. These fools are nothing but puppets being manipulated by big business. The fact that over 200 000 people marched against the invasion of Iraq, Australia wide & it went ahead regardless, proves that we do not have a democracy, but merely a joke that is portrayed as democracy.

Wake up Australia...

[Torsten]

They seem to find you irresistible, they can't believe that you are in the thick of things, yet every time you get raided they find absolutely nothing. Your open-ness about the law, your ability to do things they don't like or think are marginal yet are within the law, seems to make you a target

Absolutely. The lead cop said as much. He said that with the contacts I keep and the way my activities cross with other people's illegal activities it is inevitable that i will get raided occasionally. Seems wrong to me, because if you are 100% within the law then it should not matter what goes on around you - it's just laziness on their part so they drag the net wider.

SallyD - cops can search if there is probable cause. legaly selling capsules probably does not qualify, so they probably had to come up with a few other links and circumstances to make a case to the magistrate. As for listening devices, we have assumed these thigns to be part of our life since the last raid. Not that we truely think they listen to everythign we say, but we know that a lot of other people in the last set of raids ended up finding listening devices in their houses and GPS devices in their cars, so they certainly werer used. Whether we were important enough in the scheme of things is doubtful, but it is such a minor adjustment in life to take that into consideration that it would be silly not to.

Distracted - yes, we are the only vendor selling them, but anyone could have imported them from overseas for their own use.

Amz - yes, the raids on SAB and Koda were simultaneous? we were actually not expecting any police involvement from the Ch7 thing. Certainly, if the CH7 folks had uncovered some sort of illegal activity then I would have expected the cops to jump on this immediately, but no, I've said right fromt he start of the CH7 and in this thread that I do not feel the two in any way connected and I did not expect them to act on the Ch7 thing. We have had our premises raid-ready for several years now .... since the last raid. All the problematic things from the last raid were historical [eg samples saved up for analysis over a 10 year period] so by removing that there was nothing iffy here. The filming of the raid is not entirely new. They've been doing it for their own purposes and at their discretion for at least 20 years. However, since the wood royal commission they've had to do it for the purposes of anticorruption and for the defense. So now nothing is allowed to happen without the camera being on. Even the battery change over needs to be prepared for and logged properly and under supervision of the independent officer. It really is quite strict.

BF - a star chamber was a torture room used in royal courts to extract confessions. Today the term is applied to any situation where the right to silence is denied. This is usually called 'coercive powers', hence the reference to the historical star chamber as they used torture for coercion. Royal commissions, the state and federal crime commissions and other certain bodies with special powers can use coercion to extract information. This information can't be used to directly incriminate the person being asked, but can be used as evidence against others. In practice however the information is usualy used to find corroboating information which can then be used to convict the source. eg if you are asked where the gun is that shot Mr X and you provide that information, and then your prints are on that gun, you can get done for the shooting, but your statement can't be used in court [however the prints can].

If you refuse to answer the questions you face an immediate up to 7 year jail term - without trial.

[Bread Filter]

BF - a star chamber was a torture room used in royal courts to extract confessions. Today the term is applied to any situation where the right to silence is denied. This is usually called 'coercive powers', hence the reference to the historical star chamber as they used torture for coercion. Royal commissions, the state and federal crime commissions and other certain bodies with special powers can use coercion to extract information. This information can't be used to directly incriminate the person being asked, but can be used as evidence against others. In practice however the information is usualy used to find corroboating information which can then be used to convict the source. eg if you are asked where the gun is that shot Mr X and you provide that information, and then your prints are on that gun, you can get done for the shooting, but your statement can't be used in court [however the prints can].

If you refuse to answer the questions you face an immediate up to 7 year jail term - without trial.

 

Wow. That is messed up. Thanks for the info. I learned something new today.

[Torsten]

People who say that industries and corporations do not have undue influence lack any experience in politics and any experience dealing with such undue influence in the legal system. I don't think this is an orchestrated conspiracy as such, but simply a combination of media fear and money needs. ie no smart politician will risk a media unfriendly stance nor will any risk pissing off 'big money'. Even as PM you are not safe when you do that, but itsimply filters down all the way to the MPs. Ever gone to MP fundraisers? who gets to sit at th table with the guest of honour? not the brilliant scientist, the dedicated teacher, or the soupkitchen manager. No,its big business CEOs, religious leaders and other powerful community organisation CEOs. These are the people who have the control from the ground up. They are the ones who decide which candidate has enough funds and support for preselection even before you get to decide.

Sorry, but as long as there is money in the democratic process it is also controlled by those who have the most.

And if you want a lesson in big pharma control just read the regulatory processes [especially the 'record or reason'] by the TGA. It is so blatant that you wonder how they get away with it. Again the problem is not a conspiracy, but simply because everyone wihtin the TGA comes from the pharma industry. The process is self selective and hence no dissenting voice will ever be included. Don't forget the TGA is an industry body, not an independent authority. It regularly ignores all of the advice given to it by the advisory committees [which are the somewhat independent scientists] and passes regulations that suit the industry or the political climate.

[Sallubrious]

Anyone who seriously thinks that we live in a democracy is kidding themselves. The perfect example of the joke that is known as democracy are the leaders of the 2 main parties, dickhead #1 & dickhead #2. These fools are nothing but puppets being manipulated by big business. The fact that over 200 000 people marched against the invasion of Iraq, Australia wide & it went ahead regardless, proves that we do not have a democracy, but merely a joke that is portrayed as democracy.

Wake up Australia...

 

You still have to believe in the political processes of democracy, when it all comes down to that's all we have.

It's just that most people these days are uneducated or too apathetic to use the these processes properly.

I've seen democracy fail and succeed a lot recently, the problem is not so with the lack of democracy but the lack of the citizens (us) to use these processes properly.

I didn't want to derail this thread into a conspiracy theory, that was never my intention thread, sorry T

[Bread Filter]

I didn't want to derail this thread into a conspiracy theory, that was never my intention thread, sorry T

 

It would be good to split them into two threads if possible. I am really enjoying reading the info on the raids.

[goneski]

I don't disagree there's corruption in the pharmaceutical industry (I know several pharmacists who are quite happy to attest to that), my issue is with 'Big Pharma' conspiracy theorists

who completely reject western medicine, think vaccinations shouldn't be given to children and so on.

Everyone complains about the same shitty leaders, yet we keep voting them in. This speaks volumes about both the general public's voting inclinations (derp), and the transparency (or lack thereof) of politicians and their broken promises and inability to give a shit.

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”

― Isaac Asimov

I wonder if health food stores selling capsules ever get raided?

The excuse of 'reasonable suspicion' is definitely pushed way past its limits..

Edited August 18, 2012 by SYNeR

[whitewind]

I don't disagree there's corruption in the pharmaceutical industry (I know several pharmacists who are quite happy to attest to that), my issue is with 'Big Pharma' conspiracy theorists

who completely reject western medicine, think vaccinations shouldn't be given to children and so on.

 

Rejecting corporatism is in no way rejecting Western medicine. Corporatism may corrupt Western medicine because of the emphasis on Profit First - Curing Second.

Everyone complains about the same shitty leaders, yet we keep voting them in. This speaks volumes about both the general public's voting inclinations (derp), and the transparency (or lack thereof) of politicians and their broken promises and inability to give a shit.

LOL. Like we have a choice. 1- We are forced to vote 2 - There is no choice when we vote.

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”

― Isaac Asimov

It is anti-intellectual to never question the current state of events.

I wonder if health food stores selling capsules ever get raided?

The excuse of 'reasonable suspicion' is definitely pushed way past its limits..

Raiding Chinese herbal stores may net them an exciting haul of illicit substances, if they can figure out what's behind the labels.

[PositiveHAL]

Sorry to hear Torsten,

makes me a sad panda...

on the upside we can all learn a little bit from this,

thanks to Torsten for sharing and being so open about all of this and the channel 7 thing

[goneski]

I think I found the real culprit here:

"Sandwich" bags -- such a good cover.

Edited August 18, 2012 by SYNeR

[Halcyon Daze]

Democracy seems to work when things get REALLY bad, until then people are lazy and easily manipulated by the media.

Capitalism is causing all the problems. Let the greedy have full power and hope that the wealth trickles down?

It looks good on paper but it has proven it self not to work. AND it treats the environment like a place to shit.

It's every man for himself in a capitalist system.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Halcyon Daze

[mud]

The people have to understand how food and plants and medicine have been stolen from us..

So this wasteful fight can die its delusional death,

as the sandwich bag for corrupt government funding that it is.

May the sense become common,

and ALL people refuse to enforce the broken rules of broken systems.

Except the dogs. May the dogs just not wag so hard!

[Numina]

Plato said the price of not getting involved in the political system is that you get governed by morons (he might have said it a little differently) - how true! The price of getting involved however would be to have to deal with the dickheads all the time - man you'd have to be Mother Theresa to put up with that shit. Sorry to hear about your human rights being violated by the power of the state. Where's the compensation for injurious affection??? Pressure should be put on the judiciary to exercise better judgement when considering applications for these raids when they have obviously proved to be baseless and probably vexatious.

[gtarman]

A little late to the game, but I'm sorry to hear of your recent troubles Torsten. I worry sometimes about the way things are..kinda messed up, especially about the listening device thing. That's really not cricket. In fact it's more 1984 than cricket.

You may have already looked into it, but if you're interested I found a book about detecting and neutralizing listening devices/vehicle trackers etc here: http://www.internati...ertbugbook.aspx

Not that you have anything to hide anyway, but still.

[Torsten]

Thank for the advice, but I couldn't care less if they listen in. All they'd hear is how we laugh about their waste of time ;)

[gtarman]

Fair enough. Great attitude by the way! I think it's really cool that you don't let this stuff get under your skin or stew about it (from what I can tell anyway).

Keep on keepin on anywho. I'll be sure to send you guys through a couple of nursery orders as Spring springs :-)

[nabraxas]

a star chamber was a torture room used in royal courts to extract confessions

not exactly.

The Star Chamber (Latin: Camera stellata) was an English court of law that sat at the royal Palace of Westminster until 1641. It was made up of Privy Counsellors, as well as common-law judges and supplemented the activities of the common-law and equity courts in both civil and criminal matters. The court was set up to ensure the fair enforcement of laws against prominent people, those so powerful that ordinary courts could never convict them of their crimes. Court sessions were held in secret, with no indictments, no right of appeal, no juries, and no witnesses. Evidence was presented in writing. Over time it evolved into a political weapon, a symbol of the misuse and abuse of power by the English monarchy and courts.

In modern usage, legal or administrative bodies with strict, arbitrary rulings and secretive proceedings are sometimes called, metaphorically or poetically, star chambers. This is a pejorative term and intended to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the proceedings. The inherent lack of objectivity of any politically motivated charges has led to substantial reforms in English law in most jurisdictions since that time.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Chamber

if the capsules in the facebook photo are the same as the ones being sold by SAB then WOW! what a blast from the past....the first E i ever took way back in '91 was in exactly the same capsule...we called them 'rhubarb & custards'

[Torsten]

sorry, I've had to explain this so many times i started using a short [and inaccurate] form.

The star chamber itself does not torture, but uses ordered torture and other coercion methods to obtain statements or to punish those who refuse to answer. The original concept of it was noble, but it quickly became open to abuse - as any such system always will.

Never saw e's in size 2 caps in those days - usually size 0 or 00. Or actually mostly in tablet form at that time.

My first capped e wasn't till '93 and it was green and gold ;)

My staff call them McDonalds caps, LOL.

[nabraxas]

sorry couldn't tell the size ov the caps from the photo, i don't think the R & C's were bigger than 'normal' capsules (hard to really remember though, especially as i never got to handle it; it was a case ov a friend going

"open your mouth & close your eyes & you'll be in for a big surprise"

A surprise that changed my whole life.)

here's a Met. police photo:

the colours don't look quite right, but you get the idea

Edited August 21, 2012 by nabraxas

[planthelper]

everybody apart of tort & daniel, ask youreselfe's, would my place go out with flying colors, if searched by the feds?

flying colors means you did well, isn't it?

i lost a bit my cofidance...

if the answere is no, THAN IT'S BLOODY TIME YOU CLEAN UP YOUR PLACE!

[Francois le Danque]

can someone please tell me what the 'channel seven thing' is? i tried Uing TFSE but to no avail. a link would be cool too.

[Bread Filter]

It's on the last page of this thread:

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=32861&st=225

I couldn't work out how I embedded it last time. If anyone can do it I'd appreciate it.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Bread Filter

[whitewind]

Channel 7 News Beatup

10 pages long now Frank you're in for some fun.

[Marcel]

Why did all the exciting shit happen while I was distracted away from the forum?

Clearly the universe threw all this stuff out there to fill the gaping void left by my absence...

Well, I'm back now. Your life should settle a little now, Torsten.

[incognito]

Everyone knows your the narc that instigated this marcel