bone & cartilage healing herbs?

[Auxin]

So the deal is 27 years ago I broke a leg and it still aches when the weather changes, especially in fall. Also, over the last 13 years I've broken one rib loose from the sternum more than 10 times (I stopped counting to preserve my sanity), thats the result of surgery, a bad back, and a greatly deformed rib cage. This is likely the last decade I have where I can build up bone, rather than just try to maintain it or slow the loss and I dont really know how much longer I might have to build up strength in the cartilage between my ribs and sternum but I'm getting sick of breaking a rib under 1 cm away from my heart, its as intimidating as it is annoying lol.

So I'm wondering if anyone has tricks for building those two tissues with medicines.

I'm avoiding Eupatorium species and Comfrey because I dont want to risk liver cancer 5 or 10 years down the line.. I almost died in a chloroform spill once, not to mention other misadventures, and so I figure my livers had too much abuse to further insult with pyrrolizidines

Ashwagandha is on my list, its been shown to inhibit inflammation induced osteoclastogenesis (prevent inflammation from accidentally telling the body to eat its own bones) and I've seen first hand its positive effect on rebuilding cartilage. Unfortunately I can never seem to grow enough but I'm putting more effort and space into the next crop.

I supplement with Vit D in winter and add it to my olive oil so I get a bit extra even in summer and this year I decided to start eating a lot better and getting more exercise, so that stuffs in the works, just wondering if anyones had successes with home-growable medicines that wont cause cancer.

[educate]

You might benefit for a DEXA scan to assess bone mass. Then you might know what you are dealing with and were to work from.

There are 3 types of bone loss - osteoporosis, osteopenia and osteomalacia. The last is the only type really which can be partially reversed but the others are stages of loss. There is only one way down the slope and limiting the loss is the only preventative measure.

Apart from Vitamin D and good forms of calcium, omega 3 has a lot of supporting evidence to suggest it slows the loss. Minimum 1000mg of EPA a day.

I am sure you already know about weight bearing exercises and foods that accelerate the loss, right?

[bℓσωηG]

when i did my knee i was told to eat cartilage either in capsules or just cartilage on a cooked chicken,crunchy

[Magicdirt]

It's a shame you feel that way about comfrey.

It's all bullshit by the way, I've eaten comfrey for 15 years and without it I wouldn't be able to walk.

All that crap about the pyrrolizidine alkaloids has been blown out of all proportion and in the context of the whole plant they are harmless.

If you concentrate the alkaloids and feed them to a rat they will get problems but comfrey is safe if eaten raw and unprocessed.

For someone such as yourself with liver problems I don't blame you in taking the safe route though.

This article dispels a lot of the myths about comfrey. There is one section in the article how a newspaper article wrongly demonised comfrey and the stigma stuck.

Comfrey

A friend of mine contacted the CSIRO many times trying to get some form of proof that comfrey was dangerous, as he had eaten it for over 20 years after he broke his back, they never could provide any evidence that it was dangerous, because it is not.

I'm going outside to eat some now.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Magicdirt

[Auxin]

Yeah I know the dangers often are exaggerated for many pyrrolizidine bearing herbs, some of which only have traces, I havent researched the clinical data in many years so I dont know the exact level of risk currently defined by the best science (I'll read your link) but lacking a actual broken bone and just seeking prevention, my idea of harm minimization leads me to avoid potential carcinogens and tend toward taking virtually harmless stuff like ashwagandha and avoiding foods/drugs which could hinder bone strength.

Same with bone scans like DEXA, the researches paid to prove the machines are safe insist the machines are safe but without clear bone disease I'll avoid them (not to mention medical care costs in my country are usually more crippling than the thing being cured)

[naja naja]

shark and stingray cartaliage

Sry in advance hippie's

[ThunderIdeal]

you guys are talking about chondroitin right? (which is, or was, often included in glucosamine caps)

unfortunately, i'm pretty sure studies have not been able to confirm its value.

[Magicdirt]

Have you heard of Dr Christopher's Bone Flesh & Cartilage ? Bone Flesh & Cartilage

It contains comfrey but it comes as an ointment as well as capsules and a tea mixture.

I tried to get some once but the suppliers I found here were always out of stock.

It's a complex mix of many herbs so it may give you a few ideas. The Aloe vera sounds promising for cartilage regeneration and collagen production.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Magicdirt

[Scientician]

Have You tried Cissus Quadrangularis? It has been excellent in assisting my shoulder injury. There is a bodybuilding product available called super cissus (concentrated extraction) which is presumably better than the straight herbal material that I have been using. Worth a look into.

Good luck

Muskrat

[Auxin]

I havent tried it but I know of it, I've been trying to get seeds for two years lol. Its slowly gaining a foot-hold in collections here so maybe next year I can finally get me one It's one I'll damn well send all over the globe once I grow it.. its simply too rare and needs some lusty hippie love to spread it out.

Naja.. its kind of hard to farm stingrays in a northern US desert

Thanks for the lead Magicdirt

Improving ashwagandha yield is one of my concerns. My yield tends to range from poor to laughable and/or pathetic lol. I decided the current area I been growing it is simply over farmed and so I'm moving it to a new location of new-ground with freshly decomposed sod and compost tilled by hand to 25 cm (my top soil isnt great quality, but its 25 cm deep). It also occurred to me that magnesium is borderline deficient here so I'll fortify the new spot with it. My pH is 8. The indian ministry of AG says to plant 12" apart as a monsoon crop but its drier here so I'm planning on planting 18" apart in rows spaced at 3 foot centers.

The leaves also contain goodies but to my disappointment they seem to be an effective laxative Is that why milk is sometimes combined with ashwagandha? To trap laxative polyphenols or some damn thing?

[Scientician]

I have about 6 Cissus plants which I sourced from www.beautanicals.com.au & they are growing really well. Chances are pretty good that they would send one over if you asked. I don't think being in the post internationally would damage them. Kind of a weird woody/succulent type plant that can handle mistreatment well. Just not too sure about US customs & quarantine though.

Peace

Muskrat

[Scientician]

I have about 6 Cissus plants which I sourced from www.beautanicals.com.au & they are growing really well. Chances are pretty good that they would send one over if you asked. I don't think being in the post internationally would damage them. Kind of a weird woody/succulent type plant that can handle mistreatment well. Just not too sure about US customs & quarantine though.

Peace

Muskrat

 

scratch that last post. I just checked the website & they won't send internationally.

[t st tantra]

I havent tried it but I know of it, I've been trying to get seeds for two years lol. Its slowly gaining a foot-hold in collections here so maybe next year I can finally get me one It's one I'll damn well send all over the globe once I grow it.. its simply too rare and needs some lusty hippie love to spread it out.

Naja.. its kind of hard to farm stingrays in a northern US desert

Thanks for the lead Magicdirt

Improving ashwagandha yield is one of my concerns. My yield tends to range from poor to laughable and/or pathetic lol. I decided the current area I been growing it is simply over farmed and so I'm moving it to a new location of new-ground with freshly decomposed sod and compost tilled by hand to 25 cm (my top soil isnt great quality, but its 25 cm deep). It also occurred to me that magnesium is borderline deficient here so I'll fortify the new spot with it. My pH is 8. The indian ministry of AG says to plant 12" apart as a monsoon crop but its drier here so I'm planning on planting 18" apart in rows spaced at 3 foot centers.

The leaves also contain goodies but to my disappointment they seem to be an effective laxative Is that why milk is sometimes combined with ashwagandha? To trap laxative polyphenols or some damn thing?

 

have you tried the berries,ashwaganda.....thats what i have mostly used in recent times.said to aid in recovering from illness.quite like the bitter flavour....

t s t .

[Mycot]

Another bone herb worth looking into is Cnidium monnieri which is used in TCM for bone health.

Studies with this herb have shown increases in bone density.

The herb also has a number of additional medicinal properties of interest including aphrodesiacal.

[Μορφέας]

get your hands on some human growth hormone, or alternativley some cjc1295 with ghrp6

[t st tantra]

saw polygala tenuifolia[sp?] in snu for healing muscles and bones.

t s t .

[Auxin]

Thats interesting, I've read about Polygala tenuifolia before but never found anything about bones.

Cnidium monnieri also sounds interesting but I'll have to track down data on just how much it enlarges the prostate, and precisely how. Prostate problems run in my family. (as a side note Epilobium parviflorum is said to stop and even reverse hormonally induced prostate enlargement. I figure that since it counters benign prostatic hyperplasia at the theoretical origin, by acting as a 5Alpha-reductase inhibitor and thus reducing DHT biosynthesis, occasional use throughout the years as simple tea (no creamer) may serve a preventative role. Its also used to help with UTI's and diarrhea, so far it seems easy to grow I'll post results in 2045 when I find out if it worked )

Withania berries are on my list of things to try, this years crop sucked too bad to try it

Edited November 19, 2010 by Auxin

[t st tantra]

that epilobium is a weed here.

t s t .

[Zen Peddler]

I have an autoimmune inflammatory condition where my auto antibodies attack various areas of my body - and most anti-inflammatory meds didnt really help or the side effects were ordinary.

Ive been searching for herbs that offer anti inflammatory effects when i came across ashwagandha. its an amazing, subtle and impressive anti inflammatory and I believe it works by stopping the immune response to inflammation rather than by fucking with cox or prostalatin or whatever its called.

Zero side effects and I read many studies where its been found to improve cartelidge damage AND offer an anti inflammatory response. it also seems to re-regulate my fucked up immune system and taken with alcohol its party time...

[yggdrasil]

If you don't want to use Comfrey try Soloman's Seal.

sold here: http://www.solomonsseal.net/store.html

and Mullein (Verbascum thapsus, Horsetail (Equisetum arvense), Du Zhong/Eucommia (Eucommia ulmoides) and Gu-Sui-Bu (Drynaria fortunei) are all used for bone and joint health.

Also make your own stock.

Made with slow cooked bones/cartilage.

It provides lots of easily digestible bone-building nutrients.

[Auxin]

Thanks, I'll research those. Mullein grows wild all around here

[mud]

Homeopathically,

Hypericum (st johns wort) is commonly given for such

'deep' healing.

Lookng at the emotional effect of the trauma too, I suppose.

Though, to be honest I just wanna point out that intending the healing through medicine and plants is rather secondary to what may be most helpful.

Cartillage will only renew, and glucoasmine and other supps only work if there is sufficient evaucation of gas biproducts from the body. Smoking and being unfit sucks arse for regenerating anything. At the same time, boosting your growth hormone with foods high in androstenone (bitter green leafy stuff) will give you a new lease on life.

Coming from many years experience in alternative and complementary disciplines,

I'd first suggest

an exercise and breathing program that focuses primarily around range of movement (joint mobility) and getting your whole body as fit and agile as possible.

-the problem is not in your rib

-the problem is not in your leg

(its always gonna be whats above and below the symptom that gives the real clue to the dysfunction. (ie. looking at the overall picture)

If you dont move it you lose it. AND, form follows function.

2 very important riddles right there.

Check out Mantak Chia

and Scott Sonnon. Both are expert body/mind teachers in their related fields and offer a wide range of advice for your particular issues.

Edited January 31, 2011 by mud

[random]

Awesome thread some great info and will be sure to try some of these things for my 'clicking' knees and spine. Gotta love the info gained from this forum!

[hebrew]

there are some good chinese formulas for bone repair, dang gui angelica sinensis, and san qi, psuedoginseng? i forget the english or latin for some chinese herbs, both these herbs move the blood, but also aid in reducing swelling pain and are good for ligaments.

have you tried any dit dat jow recipes, i have found them to be very good.

often it is a combination of herbs that will help heal such areas, not just a single herb. polygala as mentioned before is often used in the such formulas. there are some internal and external formulas used within the martial arts schools for such things too, edit to say turmeric is wonder stuff too.

Edited February 3, 2011 by VelvetSiren