$10 min eftpos

[apothecary]

First of all, paying $6.95 in 5c coins is illegal, the maximum legal tender (i.e. all the shop keeper is legally obliged to accept) is $5.00 of 5c coins.

According to the Reserve Bank Act 1959, Australian notes are legal tender. According to the Currency Act 1965, coins are legal tender for payment of amounts which are limited as follows:

http://www.rba.gov.au/currencynotes/legalf...gal_tender.html

not exceeding 20c if 1c and/or 2c coins are offered (however, it should be noted that these coins have been withdrawn from circulation but are still legal tender);

not exceeding $5 if any of 5c, 10c, 20c and 50c coins are offered;

not exceeding 10 times the face value if coins in the range 50c to $10 inclusive are offered; and

to any value if coins of value greater than $10 are offered.

Secondly, EFTPOS is a service provided individually by each shop to you the customer. They don't get it for free, they have to pay line rental to a phone company usually as well as service fees to whichever banking insto is providing the EFT. If you don't like the terms of service, I'm not really sure why you shouldn't go elsewhere (rather than exploding at some poor sod working for $12/hr). In a cash transaction there are only two parties: you and the seller. By using EFT you change the business transaction completely. and make the seller a customer to a 3rd party! Fail to see any reason why this should be obligatory on their part.

Thirdly, I also hate cash and wish we would just move to electro-money already! If I can't get paid in cash then I shouldn't have to spend in cash either. IMO, EFTPOS and CC do not constitute electronic money. My credit card has a little chip on it and I'm supposed to be able to go to shops and wave the chip against a reader (i.e. no swiping) which will automatically deduct the money from my account. The only place I've ever seen this offered was Stanmore McDonalds in Sydney, except when I asked to use it they said it didn't work!

[G*P]

The reasoning for a minimum eftpos transaction, is to cover the eftpos charge which currently sits at around 50c for most small shops.

I simply demand that I can pay their shitty little fee (50c), or that hey pull their finger from their ass andcop that shitty lil fee to maintain a degree of goodwill.

If the store front robot preaches 'policy' I get them to call the manager. I've never been declined using this strategy.

[Neoshaman]

will not cost anything. I lived on 100% cash for many years and never paid any bank fees [except for everyone else's as I had to subsidise all EFT transactions with my purchases].

Completely with you there T the only thing that gets paid through my bank is my rent its great I certainly don't miss the $5-10 a month charges just for letting them use my money Bank fees are ridiculous but in saying that i can understand from a business perspective the minimum payment staff costs and other overheads such electricity and rent etc need to be taken to account to fully determine tthe profit after all this on a 6.95 sandwhich a business might have a dollar or two profit then we need to take into account the EFTPOS Terminal approx $30 a month so say 3-5 c per transaction for a small business then $0.38 per transaction (based on NAB eftpos charge ) so say around $0.40 per transaction I imagine a lil more if you also get cashout if you are looking at $2 profit on that transaction by an EFTPOS transaction you have lost out up to 20% of your profit now take into account say 100 transaction like this over a day in all fairneess i think its justified to have a minimum purchase amount

EDIT: i have never understood either why business shouldn't make the customer pay it directly its not real a convience for the business the consumer is the one to benefit so in all reality they should pay i mean they pay it for any other electronic dealing with a bank why would the shop owner be such a bad guy if he on charged eftpos fees to the end user yep everyone would moan and bitch about it but this is Australia where after the initial mooaning and groaning we are happy to submit and pay whatever the banks see fit ( even when it has no real basis on how they calcualte the service charges LMAO)

[G*P]

As a business developer and small biz owner myself, I value goodwill and keeping it.

I also value, overdelivering on value.. hmm.. did i say value?

im of the kind that likes to know the management values me. Values my patronage. Very few of these tightass policies give room for CRM customer relationship managemet, and even fewer buisinesses seem to know whereto focus.

The last time I was momentarily denied, was from a manger who was currently hawking up a huge snot to spit in the bin.. she'd (on previous occasion) neither said hello, or goodbye to me.. (despite being the only person in the store) so I felt rather justified tellin her to fuck up when she didn't want to eftpos the loaf of bread and milk that were costing me $9 something

[santiago]

ok i understand that eftpos may cost the business a very very small cost to use but logically i does not make sense.

lets assume my $6.95 purchase makes the provider $2 of profit but costs 50 cents eftpos fee, thats still $1.50 profit but if they turn away the customer because they dont have the $10 minumum then there is $0 profit, the company loses and the customer loses.

but of course this isnt the case as per most people being sheep most people will top up that $6.95 to $10 by buying some useless junk strategically placed at the counter like chewies, chocolates just as an example....so the consumer loses and the company wins in fact from a $1.50 profit it jumps up to $4.55 using that as a simple example.

so in reality the $10 minimum is no necessity no hassle to the provider at all, it is a gimmick and a sales stategy primarily designed to ROB you of your hard earned cash, it is deception coming of the wake of a global financial crisis where deception of executives was highly frowned apon i really cant beg to see the difference (although on a much lesser scale) between the two.

apothecary thanks for your post i had forgotten about that maximum denomination law, ok my cunning plan has changed.......

[Chiral]

Whoa..customer service is another topic G*P...lol a really big topic all on it's own...I was mortified at how much nicer customer relations were overseas compared to here...really it's appalling here IMO...back on topic...shopkeepers risk losing a lot of custom if they don't install eftpos in their store...what with so many go go consumers rushing in and wanting something now now now and then finding they can't pay with a card..that hurts many store owners in the hip pocket I'm sure...at the end of the day it's the stores decision to open up and trade and sell products etc...so he/she should do all they can to attract customers should he/she not...if that means installing eftpos and having a 5 dollar limit then I'm sure they will do more business and keep customers coming back time after time for their bread and milk etc...

$9 for bread and milk...yeah some stores have a fucking cheek or what...but hey that's our choice to shop there isn't it...

H.

[santiago]

good point hunab, also shop owners who insist a 50c fee or a $10 minimum just to spend your $$$ should take into account thats the cost of running a business and factor it in, there is no difference between using an eftpos machine and 'using' the stores air conditioning/heating whilst shopping, its all part of the package.

[apothecary]

I think since this issue affects you so deeply you should draw up a business plan and try and figure out whether what you are saying or not is actually based in any sort of reality.

[santiago]

business plan = dont spend $10 minimum

[genki]

Yea thats a crock of shit the cash being faster than card, i worked at a joint not too long ago and for a few years at that that only took credit card and eftpos, we were stunningly quick, there was no error human or customer, banking was easy peasy no 45 cents here or $11 dollars there to recover and for every dinosour customer who cried cash there was 30 more that did not blink an eyelid. Get with it, cash is an outdated system.

im curious to know what type of business it was? eftpos is the bane of my existence. at my work eftpos transactions generally take significantly longer than cash transactions. people regularly:

- select the wrong account

- get their pin number wrong

- don't have sufficient funds and have to change to a different card

- want to add more items in partway through the transaction which means starting over or putting through two separate transactions

- ask for cash out while entering their pin after originally declining when asked

- have old faulty cards that require repeated swipings or the use of a plastic bag to work

we often get customers coming through with a big bag of coins (tips, pokies winnings, busking/begging, emptying piggy bank), these transactions generally take about the same amount of time as the average eftpos transaction - the customer usually dumps their coins on the counter and allows me to count out the correct amount on the counter in front of them. generally people with cash will have notes or correct money ready to go and are aware of how much money they have to spend. im amazed at the number of customers who come through my work hoping their pay has gone through/they have enough money in their account but not bothering to check first despite the fact that we have an atm on the premises and most of the major banks have one within a one minute walk. eftpos can be efficient but just because you are good at using it it doesn't mean everybody else is also. i've lost count of the number of times i've seen people come through with their pin number written on the back of their card!

edit: i forgot to mention that the minimum eftpos spend at my work is $5 which most customers have no trouble meeting.

[genki]

Also has that theory of the customer is always right officially died

in 9 out of 10 price disputes at my work the customer has failed to read the price on the tag correctly or read the tag for a completely different product. these customers are often quick to accuse, abuse, insult and yell but often go silent instead of apologising for their tirade when politely corrected. i pride myself on providing excellent customer service regardless or how difficult the customer, it is without a doubt the hardest aspect of my job. it would be nice if all customers approached my workplace with the same polite, friendly attitude that i work hard to maintain but with this mentality of the customer is always right it is unlikely to ever happen. instead i would like to see a different mantra adopted, something along the lines of "the customer will always approach a business and treat its employees in the same manner with which they expect to be treated"

[ThunderIdeal]

the minimum limit, seemingly justifiable, could just be a ploy to make people spend ten dollars (possibly up to 15 just in order to exceed 10) instead of a few dollars for the item they need. consider the scheme(scam) where you take in your coles docket and get an ADDITIONAL fuel discount when you also spend fifteen dollars in at the servo. is this crazy or what? spend fifteen dollars for about five dollars worth of stuff in the store, and save an extra fifty cents on petrol lol.

all those extra goods purchased to reach the ten dollar limit would add up to some serious extra profit.

[Chiral]

the minimum limit, seemingly justifiable, could just be a ploy to make people spend ten dollars (possibly up to 15 just in order to exceed 10) instead of a few dollars for the item they need. consider the scheme(scam) where you take in your coles docket and get an ADDITIONAL fuel discount when you also spend fifteen dollars in at the servo. is this crazy or what? spend fifteen dollars for about five dollars worth of stuff in the store, and save an extra fifty cents on petrol lol.

all those extra goods purchased to reach the ten dollar limit would add up to some serious extra profit.

I actually got quite shitty with all the Indian guys gesturing me to the choclates and mints right in my face when I went to pay for petrol...I snapped big time one day at one of these poor Indian chaps...I had had a shit day at work, 16hrs plus, under hot heavy sweaty audio racks in the bowels of stinking nightclubs, fixing shit that shouldn't have needed fixing if it had of been installed correctly...anyways I was tired and short tempered becuase of the constant calls from my anal retentive boss...I let the Indian guy at the servo have it with a tirade of abuse...no the "FUCK I DO NOT WANT ANY CHOCOLATES...!!! do I look like I want some chocolates you fucking cretin...if I wanted chocolates I would have come to the counter with them wouldn't I you stupid fuck"... not one of my better moments and he was the straw unfortunately...but they are persistent about selling you more to get to spend that 10bucks when you fall short of the magic 10...I must admit the servo is where all this kind of stuff happens the most...most other stores swing both ways and just sell ya the goods...its' the overpriced convenience stores and servo's that are the worst offenders...in my case I had a company car and company petrol card so it was trite to ask me to buy chocolates...I don't care how many I can have for $4...In the UK they have taken away any sweets or subliminal junk foods and magazines from the checkouts in shopping centers due to customers complaining about how it makes their kids go ballistic and throw a temper tantrum when they ask for a chocolate and poor mum has to say no...and when the mother is trying to load up a families worth of groceries and 3 kids in her care it's to say the least, demanding...I wish they would move the crap away from the counters here to....some servo's you can barely make out the cashier for all the crap and lollies and signs etc around him.

H.

[ThunderIdeal]

kids, if i ever have them (please god no) i will never buy anything of their choice when out shopping. that sets a dangerous precedent that if they annoy the living shit out of you with enough intensity and persistence that you will cave in to their demand. aint happening, in fact if i ever have kids (god no please) i may carry around ear plugs for when they forget that i've already answered their question and the answer was no.

anyway, a 7-11 manager was friends with this guy and confided that he short changes all the time, just a little bit, because it adds up to a huge amount and if the customer catches him he can just act like it was a mistake.

[Torsten]

santiago, different businesses have different business plans. you don't go to ALDI and ask for gift wrapping, do you? yet you'd have no problem asking for it in David Jones. Customer service and any service associated with customers costs the business money so the business owner has to decide if they want to spend that extra expense on retaining all of these customers or if they simply create a cut off where it is not viable.

For example, if I sell a single packet of seed in an order for $4, then I charge a $3 'low order fee'. The break up of the $7 is somethign like $3 for the goods and taxes, $1.50 for postage, $1 for padded envelope, $0.50 for payment fees, which is a total of $6.00 wich leaves me $1.00 to pay for my time processing the order, my staff time to pack it and then for someone to take it to the post office. ie, this $1 pays for enough customer service to cover 3 minutes in total. It takes me about 2 minutes to process a payment and to print the order and it takes about 3 minutes to pack and address it. So on that single packet I actually lose a substantial amount of money even though you paid a whopping $7 of your precious money for it. This is why many places have minimum order amounts of have high 'low order fees'. If this was a normal business we'd refuse any order below $20 as this is where we start to make a sensible small profit. Customers often feel ripped off if they have to pay $7 for a seed packet, but to be honest we'd rather that they don't order from us if it is such a small order [we only do it because we feel treating try-out sales as if they were a promotional tool has been good for our business as people often come back and order bigger next time].

The EFT fees is no different. It simply makes that sale pointless meaning people had to work hard to make the sandwich, but at the end of the day there is no profit for it. You can't just remove a certain percentage of goods from a shop and say 'no profit on these' and still expect the business to survive.

You only have the customer's perspective and refuse to see the vendor's perspective. I mean you said it yourself that if they made some profit on that sandwich then they would sell it no matter what, so obviously they don't.

[Neoshaman]

good point hunab, also shop owners who insist a 50c fee or a $10 minimum just to spend your $$$ should take into account thats the cost of running a business and factor it in, there is no difference between using an eftpos machine and 'using' the stores air conditioning/heating whilst shopping, its all part of the package.

Why should it already be prefactored a consumer who chooses to make cash purchases should not be burdened for the extra cost of a service they have choosen not to use I actually think on charging the fee is a far better and fairer concept user pays just like with every other type of transaction

[santiago]

Im still frustrated by the ever increasing small businesses that insist on a $10 minimum spend when i pull out my eftpos card. Yes i understand the shop owner has to pay 40c blah blah blah to recoup the costs of electronic transaction fees.

Yesterday i got a haircut, $17.50

''sir we have a $1 fee to use eftpos'' i paid it too because they were pretty, which is kinda weak of me but who hasnt paid a buck for a pretty womens smile.

so thats the contradiction really, no basis to my argument because i am actually the sucker.

anyway the best result would be for example if it cost $7 for the service and the shopkeeper says ''minumum $10 please'' you say back cool ill have $3 cashout please.

if they dont then their whole theory on this kind of invalid presposition that $10 is some magical breakeven number they have then obviously all they have in mind is some type or warped control marketing stategy that they will get you to spend extra dollars in their shop.

but the power then bounces ultimately back to you the consumer because you can just walk out. you win.

i personally enjoy walking from these shops, the owner thinking im the weird one........nah its not that big an issue i suppose just a moral statement. you shouldnt be forced to spend any extra on anything which doesnt have a clearly defined set of laws and some transparency which is obvious for the $10 minimum eftpos as the following article demonstrates.

i think the sign at the counter should be manditory, stating $10 minimum. many stores dont even have this.

Money Magazine, September 2010

Walk in to a convenience store and chances are you’ll be greeted by a sign that reads: "$10 minimum spend for EFTPOS". We’ve all seen these signs but have you ever questioned them? To make matters worse, as well as minimum spend signs, some retailers charge an EFTPOS fee. Money reader Brad from Queensland wrote in some time ago about this very issue.

Short for electronic funds transfer at point of sale, EFTPOS allows you to buy items using your own cash, plus take cash withdrawals at the same time.

Your bank can charge you an account fee if you exceed a certain number of transactions a month, but generally EFTPOS transactions are supposed to be free.

Not so! Brad says that depending on where he shops, he can be charged up to $1 surcharge for using EFTPOS. "To purchase Money magazine using EFTPOS at a newsagency I was advised that I had to purchase items to the value of $10, so I decided to leave. The next day I tried another newsagency and they wanted to charge me 20 cents for using EFTPOS. I’ve even had a retailer wanting to charge me $1 to pay with EFTPOS for a $9 transaction."

Can retailers really stipulate a minimum spend when you buy through EFTPOS and, more importantly, can they charge us a fee? For Brad it’s more a case of lack of clear regulation. "It frustrates me that a retailer can make up their own charges or possibly make a profit for providing this service. What are these retailers actually being charged?"

Unfortunately, a chat with Katherine Lane, principal solicitor at the Consumer Credit Legal Centre in NSW, reveals that retailers can indeed enforce minimum spends when it comes to EFTPOS transactions. She says no merchant is required by law to use EFTPOS, and they can insist on cash payment whenever they want.

And while EFTPOS Payments Australia obviously doesn’t recommend or support surcharges on EFTPOS, it too notes that merchants can make their own decisions.

As for why a minimum spend of $10, according to some banks it’s more of a hangover from an old pricing structure. It was quite common for retailers to be charged a flat fee per EFTPOS transaction, so on small purchases this fee represented a high proportion of its revenue.

These days merchant fees tend to be charged as a percentage of the value of the transaction. However they vary depending on the industry and the turnover and volume of usage of the terminal.

But a $1 EFTPOS fee for a $9 transaction is clearly a rip-off. According to Merchant Link, a provider of EFTPOS terminals, EFTPOS fees can vary between 5 cents and 25 cents for each EFTPOS transaction.

It is not common to be charged a surcharge fee on EFTPOS transactions as opposed to credit card transactions and I’m yet to be charged one.

Lane says the changes allowing the charging of fees for EFTPOS transactions by merchants have been a step backwards for consumers.

"We have to be constantly alert for a fee that may be charged,” she says. “Worse, the fee varies greatly between merchants."

When surcharging on cards was introduced back in January 2003, as a result of Reserve Bank reforms, it was supposed to have the effect of getting consumers to use EFTPOS instead of credit cards, as it was assumed fees would not be charged for EFTPOS (it is a cheaper payment method for the merchant).

The problem, says Lane, is that if you allow the charging of fees, merchants will charge as much as they can. "Unfortunately, it has to be expected that as time goes on, more and more merchants will charge fees or more in fees."

Brad, the best tip I can give you here is one you actually gave me: "Can you give me a good deal on a subscription so I don’t have to experience this again?"

Absolutely! The next issue of Money is on its way. For the rest of us, it’s a matter of taking our business elsewhere.

For more on your banking, see Money in September. Out now.

source above from http://money.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=7939965

[Rabelais]

Torsten reminds me of the Soup Nazi.

 

NO HERBAGE FOR YOU!!! COME BACK -- ONE YEAR!!!

 

 

 

 

 

[FancyPants]

I had zero cash and no available funds in my regular account yesterday, with stuff to buy requiring cash. So I went to a Newsagents and bought 5 $10 scratchies with a credit card - which they charge a dollar extra on credit only for lottos/scratchies (amex are always charged more) - which I found weird. Luckily for me I won the $50 on the last scratchie and thus had some cash.

I don't have any beef with these fees because my parents run a business and I see the unknown costs involved. They have a leased atm machine too which can be a hassle but is also handy and much of the town uses it as their regular atm since mum and dad's business is in the main street.

[Thelema]

So what is the actual fee to business owners for using an EFTPOS transaction? I have a feeling that in the current climate the fee towards the trasactor is $0.

Instead, they may be trying to recover the amount spent on having an EFTPOS machine in the first place, which I guess maybe costs around $90 a year - and spreading that cost amongst their customers.

Coles-Myer is pretty good, none of those teenage-bastard-bad-service types have not been directed by management to limit EFTPOS, even for a 50c biscuit. Long live bad teenage service!

[santiago]

im positive its a scam, just a ploy to get you to spend more....problem is when a shop demands 10bucks minimum...sheepish people wont even question it.

business owners it costs money to run a business, thats a fact of life....if eftpos costs you money then raise your prices accordingly, if i want to spend 50c on a card or in metal it shouldnt make any difference.

if the theory is to charge more for lower eftpos buys due to a misconcieved self morality and shop budget self importance then i expect a discount for cash, works on the same theory doesnt it.

i think it costs the shop owner a max of 50 cents huichol per eftpos..........boo hoo.

[drgibbon]

It's kinda hard to say anything without knowing for sure what the business is being charged by the bank to use EFTPOS. If their profit margin is really low on small sales, maybe they stand to lose out by using EFTPOS a lot on less than $10 purchases. As for the difference with the two BPs, depends who you get. Some are BP proper, some are franchises. I used to work at one of the franchise ones, and we were not meant to put through EFTPOS less than $10, but sometimes I did it anyway.

So yeah, to me I would think businesses wouldn't want to turn away customers, so it might be to do with the economics of bank fees.

[MagikF]

If you actually look at the book for company's that accept EFTPOS or credit cards, you will see that there is usually a minimum plus a percentage, kind of like Ebay or Paypal. For a smaller company that does not handle many EFTPOS, that minimum or percentage is higher. For a large company, that minimum or percentage is lower. It goes in line with the principal of volume or margin. A large company might be making 30% margin on that but is paying a lower fee whereas a smaller business might be making a 30% margin but is paying a higher fee.

[7baz]

i miss the good old days when my pay was in cash in a envelope...

now we are all forced to have our wages put through banks...

its begining to become increasingly hard to escape from.

its all bs , we live in a world of a bs system designed to slave us all , economic slavery.

what if i dont even want a fucking pastic card ? pretty damn hard to go about daily life without one.

every week i pull out all my entire wage in one hit.. just to avoid bs bank fees and atm fees lol

[alphaomega]

i miss the good old days when my pay was in cash in a envelope...

now we are all forced to have our wages put through banks...

its begining to become increasingly hard to escape from.

its all bs , we live in a world of a bs system designed to slave us all , economic slavery.

what if i dont even want a fucking pastic card ? pretty damn hard to go about daily life without one.

every week i pull out all my entire wage in one hit.. just to avoid bs bank fees and atm fees lol

 

well said. totally agree. by the way hi everyone