Kids or No Kids

[gilligan]

yo gabba gabba is the best!

AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH! Not another one of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Hey, Guys, put your seatbelts on", "don't give up, never give up"

AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Chiral]

WTF is Gabba Gabba...?

[gilligan]

WTF is Gabba Gabba...?

a weedy afro guy hiphop rapper cross dj in tight fitting happy hardcore coloured crap clothing who has a dollhouse but more of a diorama with funny monster type things in it. They are hell small, and they come to life, and he can talk/interact with them. Then these munty kids come on and dance and jump, ala sesame street, and the little monstery things sing a whole heap of songs, but to the same tune.

It does my fucking head in. Hey, everybody, how are you today! "don't give up, never give up" are the two things i can never get out of my head.

Even thinking about them i want to wring that blokes neck for bringing those little monsters to life.

Google them maybe, and play one of their songs. I mean their only song, which has different words depending on the message they're trying to get across, if you can call it a message.

Sorry, WT, not to detract from your dilemma here.

Someone bring me a panadol, i need a lie down...

[ThunderIdeal]

you shouldn't get the wrong idea VS, that people are sitting in judgment of your parenthood, or that we will judge watertrade if he goes ahead with it.

*sigh*

i do judge some people as trash though, and all the young kids i've met lately have belonged to trash parents. it's like the intro to 'idiocracy' (well, the whole movie)

if you're doing a decent job of raising children then power to ya, it's not a situation i want to be in and i'd prefer if the governments would subsidise contraception rather than rewarding trash for multiplying because only trash would consider a few thousand bucks any kind of incentive to raise a child (which is gonna cost many tens of thousands in the long run)

seriously. incentive to be a parent should be with the exception that you prove you are not trash or at least not the worst kind of trash.

[mac]

That and playschool - i love brooke satchwell

& what about those HI 5 girls ? Note to self buy a Ralph mag

Edited April 29, 2009 by mac

[mr b.caapi]

..If you want Time to go really fast , then have kids ! seriously. It only seems like yesterday that my two were born. Fuck , i was only a kid myself....too stupid to keep my dick in my pants. But im happy to say im still with the same beautiful girl. My Son is about to turn 17 and my daughter has just turned 14.

Kids make Time go real fast. Period.

p.s if i could start my life over again, i wouldnt change a thing.

[PD.]

LOL, cant believe you dont like yo gabba gabba gilligan.

"lets go crazzzzyyyyyy"

[PD.]

I do like Peep and the big wide world better though!!!

[incognito]

cognito, my opinion for what it's worth.... it is natural but are you gonna use that argument when i club a woman over the head and drag her back to my cave? rape is fairly natural but we as humans choose to override what is natural for the sake of what is right (well some of us do).

nah id pretty much just say you are a tool, worthy of adding to my b&b mix.

i think u have been viewing to many far side comics.

possibly even some weird horny dude harboring rape fantasys??

maybee u can point me to some fossilized evidence.

hmm ur choosing to put birth and rape in the same category. now THATS short sighted (and stupid) and kinda weird. very weird. not natural.

so fuck u guys must live in tree houses wearing hand made from sunbleached grass clothes, recycling ur own turds typing ur hypocrisy on ur computers which are made of course from recycled tincans which are run on solar power hey?? ur not? shit YOU are trashing the environment!!!!, best neckurselves so Hebs and WT can have some kids.

YOU ARE part of the problem, stop pointing ur finger at everything else.

gabba gabba haters- "don't give up, never give up" sheez what a negative message

i think hes hella cool, and the tunes aernt all the same!!!!!!! they get guest bands in all the time!

sure maybee as u so eloquently put it 'trash' may breed ALOT, but alot of amazing people come from'trash'.

id be having a long hard look at urself before u label another human being 'trash'. Alot of us wouldnt be here if 'trash' didnt breed somewhere down the line.

you know there could well be people out there that regard YOU as trash. u neva know. its not a nice feeling.

ah im outta this thread to many heads up asses.

oh i tell u a kids show which kinda scares me..............'THE NIGHT GARDEN!' upsie daisy! upsie daisy!!!! that is one trippy show.

another one from thunder:

i do judge some people as trash though, and all the young kids i've met lately have belonged to trash parents

so what line of shamanic learning does this stem from young apprentice? how to be a judgemental bigot lesson 101???

did u hafto ingest pauline hansons mumified placenta and rev.niles dingleberrys to arrive at such insight???

excuse me while i grab a bucket

Edited April 29, 2009 by incognito

[PD.]

as if you wouldnt like to go for a ride in the ninky nonk with makka pakka incognito!!!

[incognito]

that show is scary. i would run like hell from makka pakka

[PD.]

i dont drive a car, who here that is so quick to blame parents for fuckgin the environment do?. how many of you use a computers. how ethical are computer manufacture on the environment, mobile phones etc, btw i dont own a mobile phone either, who here transports plants all over the country or world, that has an impact on the environment too dont see people getting up in arms about that, no thats right as long your plants get to you in the mail its ok isnt it, to blame it on the environment is pretty hard i reckon. fuck, everything is fucked for the environment, who caught an airplane recently anyone? i dont rarely new clothes for my kids, its mostly second hand, hand me downs, my wife knits clothes for them too, i dont even have a heater in my house, and its very cold here at the moment, how many of you got heaters on all day? or air conditioner during summer. we can all pull the environment card thats easy to do, i think you can raise children in a sustainable way, no more than what you can live in a sustainable way if you didnt have kids. you can teach children how to live for the future as against it. if you are smart and wise i think its important to pass that knowledge of how to care for our environment onto future genreations so they can be leaders and aware of our planet. if all parents were teaching the children now to live a life of excess and not care then the future has no hope its is the parents that make their children aware of sustainable living that are going to make a difference. the reality is being a commited parent is alot of work, and responsibilty. perhaps not everyone is up to being a parent and that is ok, its a big commitment.

Touche.

[ThunderIdeal]

i don't see why the fuck you're talking to me like that? i'm only sharing my view and i have said "You shouldn't get the wrong idea VS, that people are sitting in judgment of your parenthood" FFS, there is no need to sling shit here or point out the hypocrisy that we dare continue living whilst believing children aren't the best idea.

maybee u can point me to some fossilized evidence.

there's no need to look in the fossil records, watch more docos on animal behaviour. rape IS natural, so my point should be clear: natural is not a moral high horse. natural can be morally fucked in the head. i can be an inconsiderate prick and that is natural (survival/dominance), but like most people here i'm trying to be a little bit better than what comes natural.

sure maybee as u so eloquently put it 'trash' may breed ALOT, but alot of amazing people come from'trash'.

id be having a long hard look at urself before u label another human being 'trash'. Alot of us wouldnt be here if 'trash' didnt breed somewhere down the line.

you know there could well be people out there that regard YOU as trash. u neva know. its not a nice feeling.

.......

another one from thunder:

i do judge some people as trash though, and all the young kids i've met lately have belonged to trash parents

so what line of shamanic learning does this stem from young apprentice? how to be a judgemental bigot lesson 101???

"shaman's apprentice"? i didn't choose that, i don't know how to change that. it says shaman's apprentice because i have 1000+ posts, i post too much.

i am being judgmental but i reckon it makes a bit of sense too. example: with the present level of medical knowledge, a mother continues to smoke, or drink heavily, or take addictive drugs whilst pregnant. if that person deserves to bring up a child then spank my ass and call my cindy, i'll count myself lucky that my parents were slightly more thoughtful about their actions.

Edited April 29, 2009 by ThunderIdeal

[woof woof woof]

I think what's important is to see what the role of humans really is on this planet.

I have a 2 theories.

# 1 ; We are supposed to be the caretakers of this planet.

# 2 ; We are supposed to leave this planet with the help of technoligy.... so that we can spread the word of christ! bash in, pagan aliens heads etc etc etc.... lol

uhhhummm.... no,.. seriously.... technoligy is supposed to serve some purpose.... to me it is heading in the direction of making outerspace journey farther and farther.... it'sin our genes to wander and explore.

1 thing is for sure,.... we need to be more carefull with the planet we live on.

sometimes when i get psycho toughts.. I think someone should organize human hunting expiditions.... hunt down people that exploit the rainforest etc etc..... the fucked up thing i come to realize always after i think of such horrible things is that it is always the poor bastards that getthe SHIT end of the stick in the world. EAT THE RICH! whahahhahaha!!!!!

[naja naja]

Go Diego Go! Easily

Love learning spannish myself and gets the kids interacting rather than just zoning out. My gf's young son pulls spannish out all the time and can pretty much understand any spannish words. Dora the explorer is good too, but a little younger orientated and slightly girly.\\

I wasn't a parent until last year, my gf had a 2.5 yo son. I hated young kids before and still hate alot of the little fuckers, but this guyu is beutiful. 3.5 yo now and I can't wait too raise him into an adult. Parenthood rules, ex boyfriends who pretend to be faTHERS WHEN IT SUITS THEM SUCKS BALLS!

[apothecary]

So wt, why not adopt? Surprised nobody but tort mentioned this so far.

No issues with adding more strain to limited natural resources (in fact you can teach your adoptee all about sustainability), and you are saving a soul from the system.

The genes won't be yours but the nature or nurture argument is one you and your wife should have I think! Also I guess the timeframes and cost for adoption will be similar or maybe even less than medical procedures and possibility of complications thereof!

[Chiral]

Have a child....raise it to be the person you always wanted to be....remove all the flaws that came with you from your parents ..refine them and show them biology and nature...tickle them and chase them..tell them you love them, feed them some healthy food and congratulate them afterward...sing and dance with them..read stories with, punish them verbally for drawing on the walls with permanent marker. show them how to use a computer, sow some seeds and give them their own patch to grow things in, cut their hair, clean their teeth, make big soapy bubble baths and then have a bubble throwing fight, get down on your knees and open your arms and offer them a hug ...cause your their Daddy and you wanna tell them you love them and wanna hug....

There is no love like the love you have for your own child...it's unconditional.

I had never planned to have any children or ever got married...I now have 2 children... 12 and 2 and they are a part of me...something positive will be with them as they grow and that makes me happy

My sons first Cactus...I'm so proud of him and now he wants to collect more...

My daughter in her favourite party dress....

Edited April 30, 2009 by Hunab Ku

[Torsten]

Dreamers! Since when do kids grow up to be like their parents? If you want a sustainably thinking child then raie it by the 'greed is good' concept so that when they rebel they might actually be sustainable. I think parents who think they will raise the kids theyw eren't are deluding themselves. Hippies are the worst. I get this shit around Mullum all the time - we need to breed more hippies to make the world a better place. Then the kids go to sydney and become bankers.

Cloth nappies? Another delusion. Between manufacture, water and chemical use cloth nappies are at best marginally better than disposables at worst they are a bigger burden - especially in one child families. Even the conservation websites will tell you that.

The only way to stop the drain on the world is to reduce population. The best way to do this is to say it stops with me. Not with your kids, not with their kids, but right now. The effect is exponential and the sooner it is implemented the better. So, even if you carless folks might save 10% of the pollution an average westerner creates, I save at least 100% pollution by 2020, 200% by 2040, 300% by 2060 etc

Resources will be very expensive in the near future and rather than people being paid to produce more humans that will need more resources, we should be paying them to stop increasing the demand. Limiting demand is the only way to reduce pollution and waste.

As for raping and killing, yes these are entirely natural. Even raping adolescents is natural in the animal kingdom. The only reason why we don't normally do these things is because we have built up a set of morals. There is no biological reason why humans don't rape on a daily basis. In fact in some cultures this is still the norm! Including the rape of 13 year old girls. It is purely an arbitrary moral development. And we might pretend we value life too much to take it, but you will find that those espousing those principles are usually the biggest killers - with good excuses obviously such as eliminating child molestors, communists, muslims, druggies and various others we define as trash.

And as for white trash, I am surprised incognito would defend people who emotionally and often physically abuse children for their whole life given his uebertall soapbox on child abusers. Seems to me that the end result of shattered lives is often the same.

Like I said, I love kids. But that doesn't mean we need more of them. A halt in population growth would be nice just so we can see whether technology can dig us out of the environmental debt we have put ourselves in. If we can solve all these problems then by all means start breeding again, but at the moment we are playing catch up and we are losing the battle.

Breed if you have to, but don't expect the world to thank you for it. The next person who sends me a joyous new-born email gets a commiseration card as reply.

[FancyPants]

^^^ What a beautiful little girl, Hunab! And your son looks like a really good kid

sadly us blokes can't fully grasp the female side of things. we get to perform our reproductive role no strings attached, asking women to not bear children is roughly akin to asking men not to fuck.. you're contending with a powerful force. what if watertrades missus said 'okay, we can stay together and i won't have kids, but you are not allowed to fuck'. i'm just trying to add some balance because from this perspective, we can empathise with the 'self gratification' that is having children (and it certainly is that).

I can offer my aspect (only) for the female side of things: I'm 27 now and I don't want kids anytime in the near future. Having a lot of cousins growing up I wasn't really a fan of little kids but always knew that even though I didn't particularly like them then, doesn't mean I wouldn't maybe want kids in the future. I'm not sure it would be very practical physically for me to carry a child to term now (since age 18), but not for fertility problems. So I figure if I really do want a child, I'd probably adopt. I can understand why some people would prefer their own genetic influence, and their partner's, but it just makes me so sad to see so many people spending thousands of dollars on fertility treatments like IVF when there are hundreds of thousands of live babies and children all over the world who have no home, no parents, no life, and no hope. So sad. So very fucking sad. It will be interesting to see how future partners will feel about this, but I cannot and will not compromise myself or unborn child for the pressure of another.

I think in my own case I'll probably end up with a partner who maybe already has a child and that would OK with me too, provided they weren't a little gobshite of course hehehe. I get along pretty well with kids, they're just drawn to me for various reasons. Maybe too they're like cats and prefer to be the ones doing the approaching rather than being approached and fussed over... scary!

So I guess the point of commenting - sorry to ramble - is to say that not all women are automatically mother material, and certainly not all mothers are mother material. Also a lot of women feel the pressure of giving birth in a way that men can't; because a woman's time-frame for maximum healthy child is smaller than for males. A man can go his whole life a bachelor but if at age 60 decides he wants to be a daddy, he reasonably can with minimal help. After the age of 45 the chances of birth defects, genetic defects, health risks for baby and mum, rise so much. Never mind menopause. The biological clock ticking is very real.

***

Watertrade, you cannot have a child just to keep a relationship. I shouldn't say "can't" but it seems to be a relationship killer. Not to mention bringing a child into this world for reasons other than you actually want to be father/mother for that child.

My parents were 17 and 18 (and not terribly wealthy) when I was born, mum was preggers with me when they married. And lo they're still together after all these years, much more in love than some friends' parents who probably planned their family the "sensible" way. So in no way am I saying that young parents, or poor, or careless parents would automatically make bad parents. It worked for them, but such a way wouldn't have worked for me. My younger brother has a little boy, and most of the family were dumbfounded that my immature brother would have a kid now. But he's a brilliant dad, hardly any money, but he takes proper care of him while the mother ignores him to play on the computer! Long story there, but anyway my little nephew has given my brother a reason to take any care of himself at a time when I was starting to wonder if he was just going to give up on everything.

[Chiral]

Dreamers! Since when do kids grow up to be like their parents? If you want a sustainably thinking child then raie it by the 'greed is good' concept so that when they rebel they might actually be sustainable. I think parents who think they will raise the kids theyw eren't are deluding themselves.

I take offense at that and think its a very negative way to look at it...my father was a brutal alcoholic who loved to beat the shit outta me and cal me names...I have learn't through my own recognition that I don't want to be like him and am also teaching my children to be kind and not be negative and short sighted. I will never raise a child to think greed is good cause they will think it is because they listen to parents that LOVE them and believe what they say to be true.... if you have a loving close relationship...better to show them that money and greed and can lead to others starving and dying IMO.

Live simply so that others may simply live....thats my motto.

Oh and I am a hippie at heart and always have been...so whats wrong with that... I'm proud to be a hippie and hug trees and grow peyote... fuck off all the rest of you consumerist whores with your plasma TV's and fat stomachs, boring bankers jobs and athletes foot.

we need to breed more hippies to make the world a better place. Then the kids go to Sydney and become bankers.

I'd love to see the stats that show that ....that is such a wild half cocked generalisation I can't believe of all people T that you would honestly believe that...

Edited April 30, 2009 by Hunab Ku

[PD.]

In actual fact, its overconsumption that is the greater negative influence on the environment not overpopulation of the planet.

[watertrade]

people might wonder why I'm being quiet! I'm just really busy but will reply when I get back after the weekend!

Edited April 30, 2009 by watertrade

[Neoshaman]

. A man can go his whole life a bachelor but if at age 60 decides he wants to be a daddy, he reasonably can with minimal help. After the age of 45 the chances of birth defects, genetic defects, health risks for baby and mum, rise so much. Never mind menopause. The biological clock ticking is very real.

Sorry to pick you up FP I just reading over your post and recent resaerch has also shown the risks of not having a healthy child are elevated for men older then 40

http://health.yahoo.com/experts/healthnews...d-birth-defects

Cloth nappies? Another delusion. Between manufacture, water and chemical use cloth nappies are at best marginally better than disposables at worst they are a bigger burden - especially in one child families. Even the conservation websites will tell you that.

actaully T most research I could find shows that the effects of cloth nappies are far less on the enviroment it seems your information is very outdated in this case

http://www.bumpybuns.com.au/ClothVersusDis...bleNappies.html (thats one link , theres many if anyone wants to search cloth verus disposable nappy)

can actually be made from Hemp these dayS which i found quite intresting

[rahli]

Australia's population grew by 1.8% during the 12 months ended 30 September 2008. Natural increase and net overseas migration contributed 39% and 61% respectively to this total population growth.

link

Seems that overseas migration contributes more to population increase. This would also create a jump in global consumption if the migrants were from a lower consuming developing nation.

[Chiral]

seems to me that people are forgetting that people are also dying... so it's not all just births, births and more births.....