Who am i, What am i, What is i

[Change]

Im not the person i was 1 year ago, nor will i be the same person in 1 years time.

I like everyone else is constantly changing so how can i define who i am ?

You could call me a human being, But there are tens of thousands of bacterial organisms that exist in corporation with my own Homo Sapien DNA so its not really fair to call me Human, when if you removed all the non Human organisms from my body then id probably die real quick.

Am i my body? Or am i my personality ?

define personality: the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character.

define body: the physical structure, including the bones, flesh, and organs, of a person or an animal.

If my distinctive character changes does that mean i am not the same person anymore ?

Or am i my ego

define ego; a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance

If i loose my sense of self, am i no longer me, and if so what am i then?

If my body grows old, has a stroke and looses its personality am i still the same person, or am i a new person in the same body?

Ive heard people say you are what you eat, i guess this is a valid point, but i cant remember everything ive ever eaten so does that mean ill never be capable of defining what i am ?

is what i am different to who i am ?

how does one come to an understanding of who they are ?

Currently my understanding of who i am is a very confused individual with alot of questions

[bullit]

i am bullit , bullit forever , built different with hot shots to the other side, forever

Edited September 12, 2015 by bullit

[mystical oyster]

apologies for the edits.. saturday night fever.. good questions, and not easy to answer..

Ill leave this quote un-edited..

"Brahman that is immediate and direct, the Self that is within all."

"You cannot see That which is the Seer of seeing; you cannot hear That which is the Hearer
of hearing; you cannot think of That which is the Thinker of Thoughts; you cannot know That
which is the Knower of knowledge. This is your Self, that is within all;
everything else but This is perishable." (Br. Up. 3.4.2)

Edited September 12, 2015 by mystical oyster

[Yeti101]

These are big questions Change, and I don't think there are universally accepted answers.

Maybe we are a different person everyday. But since we aren't very different, that sort of view strikes me as a bit over the top. I'm not the same as I was 1 year ago, and definitely not the same as 10 years ago. Is the 'person' I was, now dead? Not really - that the person I was could die due to me changing pre-supposes a static personal identity - which can't be right, because if it were static, I would not have changed over time. Just to complicate things, it's increasingly the case that our artefacts interact in the storage of our memories (and even our dispositions).

Overall, I don't know. I mean, I know what I would like to be true, but that's no reason to believe something. In the interim, I suspect that much of what we thing about personal identity is simply illusion - but even the nature of the illusion may change over time, for both individuals and whole societies.

"Know thyself? If I knew myself I would run away." (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, maybe)

[bullit]

I am something and i am nothing

this is true

[MountainGoat]

You are not your body, but it is of you. You are not your personality, but it is of you. You are not your ego, but it is of you also. In exceptionally few cases in this world is someone expressing and living who they actually are. My self included.

If you stop, close your eyes for a few seconds. You'll notice thoughts, incessantly passing. These thoughts are not you either. You are the observer of these thoughts. These thoughts are your ego. The observer of these thoughts is who you truly are. That pure, powerful vibration that is always there. No matter how fucked your life may seem at any given moment, that vibration is always there, unwavering. That is the source of all, that is you, and everything else is simply a reflection of you, your thoughts and beliefs. Any time you need to check in to find yourself, take a few seconds to move your perspective out of the ego (thoughts) and into that source vibration. The more often you allow yourself to feel that space, the closer you will become to who you are.

The trick is holding that frequency and still get to have fun and express yourself in this awesome playground of a world, and not just sit in a cave for decades meditating....

[Maxofoz]

You have x10 more bacteria than human cells. But the action of self contemplation and the fact that we have an understanding of our biological makeup gives us the advantage to understand what drives and motivates us. Nobody truly knows who we are or what we think, we are merely a projection of our actions. It all comes down to perception. Be good, do good and you will feel good. Don't lie to yourself and continue to evolve, then it doesn't matter what people think of you because you'll be comfortable and confident with yourself. I find it's better to not dwell on things but rather concentrate on being a better person. I embrace my faults and won't compromise who I am. The way I see it is if I don't go out of my way to hurt or take advantage of others in a negative way then I'm on a good path. I'm learning pretty quickly that this community is full of empathy and caring. I feel that all of us can gain a better insight and better ourselves through the shared experiences as a member of this community. I'm talking about a few weeks of being here, not knowing anybody or having met one single member. Don't worry about who you are or what you are, it will only give you sleepless nights and doubt yourself. Simplify your thinking and just go along with the ride, you'll probably find it more enjoyable.

[ThunderIdeal]

Great answers so far. Like oyster and goat I suspect Hinduism correctly distinguished between the self of body/personality and a subtle consciousness/spiritual aspect.

Speaking of subtleties, you raise issues of where does one thing stop and the other begin, you even basically ask what is time. IMHO understanding is like collecting debris as you drift in the sea, its not a fortress but an utterly temporary, incomplete and impromptu affair, as much for science as it is for you and I. Really coming to terms with this ironically allows a huge leap in contemplation. It doesn't mean we don't seek answers, it gives context to our search and some new tools as well.

[ThunderIdeal]

Its worth noting change that the definition you gave for ego often wont be suitable when the word is used in this sort of conversation. Your explanation is more like one's pride while ego can be used to refer to almost every aspect of the personality. I suggest a little reading on the topic as I genuinely believe the ability to override the ego grows from knowing it can and should be done. Its often said that the ego makes an excellent tool or servant but a poor master. I have my opinion, but its valid to question whether we exist beyond the ego. If not, then its still possible to turn the volume right down on its desires and concerns in order to better experience a moment. Speaking of the present moment, that's likely the only moment you exist in and the only moment you can find yourself in.

[ghosty]

I think mountaingoat said it best.

We are all 3 people yeah?

1/ the person we like to think we are

2/ the person others see us as

3/ the person we really are.

I choose not to care about (2) because others will always see me as something, perhaps never quite right. 1 and 3 are where my concerns stay. Every so many years I try to throw myself into myself to see if I'm still true to myself. Last time this happened, a snake spent about half an hour questioning me. It twisted me this way and that, trying to trick me up. It did, I came to find I liked my comforts far more than I'd care to admit. Other than that though I'm true to myself.

Without my body, I'm still my thoughts. I'm still looking at things and thinking the way i do. So, though i change / evolve over time, like my beliefs, My thought processes and values have not ever changed. For to me, this is the frequency (actually many of them bound to a carrier wave - studies to be done here soon) i am. this is me.

Better to get lost in yourself, than lost in books

[Change]

You are not your body, but it is of you. You are not your personality, but it is of you. You are not your ego, but it is of you also. In exceptionally few cases in this world is someone expressing and living who they actually are. My self included.

If you stop, close your eyes for a few seconds. You'll notice thoughts, incessantly passing. These thoughts are not you either. You are the observer of these thoughts. These thoughts are your ego. The observer of these thoughts is who you truly are. That pure, powerful vibration that is always there. No matter how fucked your life may seem at any given moment, that vibration is always there, unwavering. That is the source of all, that is you, and everything else is simply a reflection of you, your thoughts and beliefs. Any time you need to check in to find yourself, take a few seconds to move your perspective out of the ego (thoughts) and into that source vibration. The more often you allow yourself to feel that space, the closer you will become to who you are.

The trick is holding that frequency and still get to have fun and express yourself in this awesome playground of a world, and not just sit in a cave for decades meditating....

I find when im learning its best for me to explain what ive learnt, if i cant explain it then i didnt learn it

So am i correct in saying that my thoughts are my ego and i am the observer of that ego ?

But what sense do i use to observe my thoughts? my imagination ?

define imagination; the faculty or action of forming new ideas, or images or concepts of external objects not present to the senses.

I decided a week ago that my feelings arent real, they are just something i create in my imagination, but i didnt stop to think what is my imagination, where does it come from, what creates it, what is this source

I observe light with my eyes, sounds with my ears, smells and tastes with my receptors, touch with my nerves ect ect

My brain decodes frequencies to create my experience of the world i find myself in

Im not denying that i observe these thoughts, im just confused as to how i go about doing such a task, and what tools im utilizing to accomplish this task.

I know my thoughts are generated by the neurons in my brain, but what organ/sensory input do i use to observe these thoughts?

lol if the answer is my third eye, pineal gland then please post up some sort of scientific paper that explains the mechanisms behind this so called "third eye" because my limited understanding of the pineal gland is that its a gland that produces hormones that regulate sleep and mood, not being able to visualize thoughts

Ive heard alot of spiritual people talk about frequency of the soul ect ect, but my understand of frequencies is that they are something that can be measured, so id like to measure the frequency of my consciousness, but im not sure how that would be possible considering that i dont know what frequency we are talking about, are we talking about a sound frequency, frequency of light? what is the frequency of consciousness?

Im thinking about this post right now, but im not sure where these thoughts come from or how im able to visualize them.

If my brain works like a computer and its input -> output then how does it manage to create things that havnt been input in the first place, like new ideas, or feelings, its not like i wake up in the morning and the vibrations of light and sound are converted into my mood.

my understand of my imagination and new ideas, is that its not possible to think of something new, but its possible to put 2 good ideas together change them around a little bit and BAM its a new idea. a unique combination of previously existing ideas. ideas seem to build on top of each other rather then fall out of thin air

im not sure if any of this is going to make much sense, i probably should get some more sleep,

Life is the music. block your ears or learn to dance. Either way the the air is moving. - chet faker

Edited September 12, 2015 by Change

[mystical oyster]

you are beyond your senses, your senses are a part of you, more so a tool

you won't find yourself if you look to hard, or think about it to much

try to look yourself in the eye, without a mirror of course!

sounds like you to need to try sitting in meditation..

just sit, close your eyes and observe what is happening

thoughts and sensations will arise, smells and sounds will arise

dont react to them, just observe

everything is fleeting except you

if you lose your sense of touch, then go blind, then go deaf, then lose taste and smell, then lose your logical thinking mind, what is left?

pure awareness, that is you

your asking what organ do you use to observe your thoughts, thats tricky, could be the brain,

but what came first, consciousness or the brain?

Good topic, you won't be able to get many definitive answers, if you are really interested in this stuff i will recommend doing some research into buddhism/hinduism

i think you would even appreciate the work of eckhart tolle for something easier to follow

[ace1928]

When you see a caterpillar turn into a butterfly you don't look at the butterfly as a brand new organism. It's the same organism
Things change. People change. Change's change. Lulz.
To not change is to stagnate.
You are who you are which is constantly in flux.

Kind of like uncertainty principle. The more you define yourself in any one given moment the less you are able to track where you are going and vice versa.

That's how I look at it.

[DiscoStu]

you want to know who and what you are? simple, just answer this:

"What is your original face before your parents were born?"

answer that and you will know everything.

[DiscoStu]

if you lose your sense of touch, then go blind, then go deaf, then lose taste and smell, then lose your logical thinking mind, what is left?

pure awareness, that is you

awareness (consciousness) arises from the senses which arises from phenomena, if you have no senses then how can you be aware of anything?

[simhanada]

I is an attempt to give something that is continually changing a fixed identity. Its alway going to be inadequate.

[ThunderIdeal]

science hasn't located consciousness yet. of course, many scientists consider consciousness an illusion emerging from the brain, some feel the same way about choice. other scientists are not convinced that brain = consciousness. as with many popularly accepted theories, i feel quite certain that there would be many arguments for something other than the brain, some of them difficult to ignore. basically science has only just started looking, which is why vast mystic traditions are the go to; imagine a whole society of people devoting their life to the question you asked for 50 or more generations.

do not confuse mysticism with the shonky attempts to yoke it onto science. don't have too much faith in mysticism or science. i believe by the time i'm an old man a large percentage of our most popular theories in physics won't just have been scrapped (not a bad thing), but science of the 20th century will be heavily criticised for some scarcity of empiricism, eagerness to invent patches for rather than scrapping failed theories, and wastefulness (but that's just my opinion).

once again i advise you not to be answer-driven in your search or you will just end up duping yourself.

there is so much information out there about the so-called ego that we really needn't try to rewrite the book with our posts, but there must be a basic analogy for it. the ego is a subroutine, easily powerful enough to convince you that it is you, and take over your existence entirely. in the way i look at it, which is just simplified over the years to something that seems to fit and serves me well, YOU fundamentally influence your existence by directing your attention in each moment. there is a bunch of mental gadgetry which helps us navigate the difficulties of life, especially survival, and it seems more indispensable now than ever with our overly complex lifestyles, but at best, at absolute best you could expect to have a few hours of useful thoughts in a day, the utility just makes a cunt of itself during all of the other moments because we let it have the spotlight constantly (many people don't realise they can choose not to think or aren't convinced that most of their thoughts are unnecessary and unhelpful, a worse scenario is that they are strongly attached to their ego and will fight alongside it to keep ego in the spotlight of attention. anyway we are too busy letting it have all of our attention we neglect to have moments of silence, or moments focused on something other than thoughts. the admiral doesn't go for a walk around the ship under these circumstances. he's a serious cat and you're on the deck yelling non-stop about restocking the toilet paper and every other bit of neurotic nonsense, the admiral would sooner disappear from memory than speak to such a dismal audience. instead of using your attention for self-reception, you used your attention 23 hours out of the day on your own style of stupid shit.

your thoughts are usually ruled by stupid shit, your thoughts basically receive all of your attention so you don't have anything else to identify as except your thoughts, feelings, body, memories, senses and possessions. if a person utterly ruled by ego asks what am i, who am i, what is i, isn't if fair to say that they're a circling convoy of stupid shit, a small fraction of which enables their day to day function. better to recognise that you can safely dispense with most of that shit.

^disjointed i think. concepts such as admiral self may not exist but illustrate that you would never know if he existed in that noisy mind. not everyone is gonna read the approach i tried to outline and decide it's a suitable set of ideas for them.

TBH in my point of view, i'm apparently an animal having this trippy experience whether i like it or not, those thoughts, sensations and possessions etc are orbiting some kind of nexus and they're funnelled through that nexus of experiencing like an audio mix, all this layers of stuff passing through this experience nexus like SPLAT, there ya go motherfucker the gift of life. thoughts and specific senses etc are orbiting bodies, the center of identity i think is the having of the experience, sometimes there is a context of where you came from, your childhood, other times you're riding the crest of a wave and you can't even get through a millisecond while maintaining some former sense of grip, some bearing or comprehension, let alone how the fuck you got there, where you're going, or what you are. so for me the experiencing is the cornerstone, i am the experiencer of this animal which is its own unique thing, for now that seems to be my entire job and nobody elses. i can't reconcile "the experiencer" with the brain=illusion of consciousness idea. how can an illusion experience a vivid illusion? why should some electrical and chemical activity in a lifeform not occur in a mechanistic fashion, why should they produce a subjective byproduct. i can buy that our personality, circumstances, timeline, brain activity is the product of a mechanistic universe but maybe you can deny that i'm a real boy, but i can't deny it, i'm here, i gotta roll with it. in known physics, there are such things as events, but no such thing as experience. my testimony and i'm guessing yours calls for the recognition of a new thing, pockets of experiencing anchored to animal specimens, they may not interact with the physical world and therefore could never be found in it, but i'm committed to its apparent existence and only then, after atoms and planets have something to make themselves apparent to, can they be awarded the same status of apparently existing.

[wert]

You are what you eat therefore i am a combination of pizza and chinese take away.

Interesting read though i like the op.

Edited September 13, 2015 by wert

[LokStok]

But what sense do i use to observe my thoughts?

^this!

start training yourself to do this. make an effort to try and take a step back and scrutinise your current thoughts, and in so doing

so, make a distinction between those thoughts and that part of you which is doing the observing.

*edit- shitspell

Edited September 13, 2015 by LokStok

[Strontium Dawg]

Do not discard your body and bodily sensations so easily. Treasure it.

You are born, incarnate. This is no mistake.

You are not your body, but your body is not worthless ashes. It is here to serve you in this world. It's only for a short time, so look after it and be glad you have it for the time you have!

 

[Yeti101]

i can't reconcile "the experiencer" with the brain=illusion of consciousness idea. how can an illusion experience a vivid illusion? why should some electrical and chemical activity in a lifeform not occur in a mechanistic fashion, why should they produce a subjective byproduct. i can buy that our personality, circumstances, timeline, brain activity is the product of a mechanistic universe but maybe you can deny that i'm a real boy, but i can't deny it, i'm here, i gotta roll with it. in known physics, there are such things as events, but no such thing as experience. my testimony and i'm guessing yours calls for the recognition of a new thing, pockets of experiencing anchored to animal specimens, they may not interact with the physical world and therefore could never be found in it, but i'm committed to its apparent existence and only then, after atoms and planets have something to make themselves apparent to, can they be awarded the same status of apparently existing.

Have you read The conscious mind: In search of a fundamental theory by David Chalmers? ( I dig Chalmers, not least because most of his career he dressed like a metalhead hosting a dungeons & dragons night - and he still managed to bring back dualism and anti-reductionism when it was deeply unfashionable). If you haven't, you probably should. And then we should, Zaphod Beeblebrox style, ply our brains with heroic amounts of booze etc and figure this mind-brain thing out once and for all!

[MountainGoat]

Hey Change, you have already accomplished the most difficult part of this process of understanding. That is the desire to know yourself. Hold that desire, it will lead you where serves you best.

You stated that if you can't explain something you didn't learn it. Your True Self is not something you have to learn, its always there. You were born perfect (and still are, but there is a bunch of learnt beliefs and thought processes that obscure that), in that moment you were only your true self. You could not explain that to anyone, you could only Be. This is truly not a processes of learning, its a process of un-learning.

I initially approached my journey from a physics background, I can empathise with the drive to explain things. Eventually if you follow the developments of quantum theory to current day understanding you will realise that consciousness drives all experiments.

You can shorten this journey significantly if you instead of needing to explain decide you will simply feel. Emotions are the key to unlocking your consciousness. Follow them, feel them. Anything that makes you happier is truth, anything that doesn't is illusion. Your true state is one of bliss. This is really what you want to experience in this life, its not working some shit job so you can 'survive'.

You don't use any sense to observe, you simply use your attention and focus.

When I spoke of frequency or vibration, this is simply the closest words to describe that Presence. That Source Vibration is an experience, it cannot be broken down into words. It can only be felt.

As LokStok suggests, you have to train yourself to distance yourself from your thoughts enough that you can observe them. Once you can observe them you can then start to disseminate them and question their validity in your quest for happiness. The Single most important thing here is to feel how a thought makes you feel. If it doesn't feel good, question that thought/belief. It takes practice and scrutiny. It takes a dedication to live an impeccable life, where you have come to know yourself, your thoughts, and your behaviours to the point where you have nothing to hide from anyone. You have to be able to observe all those things about oneself that we try to pretend don't exist.

If you want to speed up your process, stop and do nothing. The slower you move the faster you will evolve.

p.s. I'm on my journey too, navigating my way through the storm of emotions that arise when identity is shed and beliefs that no longer serve me are examined and released. This is the most difficult and important undertaking in our lives, to truly live and not just survive. But if it wasn't it wouldn't be worth doing....

[Strontium Dawg]

Well said mountaingoat

[Yeti101]

I might not know the answer Change, but I can tell you this - you asking these questions has been really educational, and/or enlightening for everyone here.

[Yeti101]

http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1