Torsten Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 A lot of seed has been sold around the world, claiming to be Mimosa hostilis. however in most cases this seed has turned out to be different species. In particular Mimosa verrucosa appears to have been sold as M.hostilis, but even weeds like M.pudica have been substituted. The thing most of these wrong mimosas have in common is that they have pink puff balls as flowers. Mimosa hostilis [syn M.tenuiflora] NEVER has pink puff balls, but always white racemes.Below are a few pics showing the distinct single spines along the stem as well as the typical white flower racemes. When these flowers set seed I will also post pics of pods here.Check out the spines. They are straight and nasty, just like rose thorns. No hooks, no sticky bits. And the stem between the sparse spines is totally smooth.Young flower in front [still with closed buds at top], old flower at the back.A bee for size comparisonYoung flower & young and old leaves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof woof woof Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Good pics! Glad to see it confirmed again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torsten Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share Posted July 11, 2008 These plants are actually from your seed <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_wub.png . I also have 3 other ones from a different seed source and they look identical. Also, the herbarium sheets for hostils ALWAYS have spike flowers, so there is really no problem with this anymore.I have just started growing confirmed M.verrucosa, so hopefully I can put these up next year for comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planthelper Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 lovely photos! yeah most of us have got there seeds from you www (thx again). and doesn't it feel good to see other people growing one's seeds into healthy plants. <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_tongue.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teotzlcoatl Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Finally! Good job guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauve Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Wonderful pictures ! Seeing pictures of healthy, flowering and, who knows, fruiting plants that were elusive and unobtainable to the community feels like a collective success !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxin Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Very nice <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.pngHow long, on average, did it take to get from seedling to flowering plant?Most (maby all?) of the leaves I saw in those pics have an even number of leaflets per leaf, is that standard with the species or subject to too much variation to bother paying attention to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof woof woof Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 ahhh,... ha ha.... that's cool..... sutpid that i have doubts...... i sourced the seeds through someone working for EMPRABA (i think it is Brazil's governamental arigcultural org.) living in the Caatinga area.my guess is that it is a very common tree in that area.... so prolly everyone living in the Caatinga area should be well aware of this tree.Auxin......... they start flowering and producing seed at about a height of 3 to 4 ft..... so around about 1 m. Unfortunately i have 2 of them in pots atm..... therefore they do not flower and set seed as much as when they are in the ground, but everytime i give them fert..... they flower and set seeds....... allot of the seed pods are then under developed........I am thinking of planting my M. Hostiles out in the bush this season....... (muhahahahhahahaa) < wicked eco terrorist laugh..... not as bad as you think... we do not have any animals that will be affected by this spp.... and also.... our island has many types of thorn trees with longer and more wicked spines then the hostiles..........would not reccomend planting this one out in the Aust bush........ as i think this one can have a big ECO impact on the wildlife! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torsten Posted July 12, 2008 Author Share Posted July 12, 2008 How long, on average, did it take to get from seedling to flowering plant?For these guys it was 2 or 3 years cos they sat in 10" pots for about 2 years <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_blush.pngMost (maby all?) of the leaves I saw in those pics have an even number of leaflets per leaf, is that standard with the species or subject to too much variation to bother paying attention to?Hadn't paid attention to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothecary Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Good to see the potential of ground-planting this baby from the lovely seed that www gifted everyone.Mine is in a styrofoam box and winter-pruned so no progress like the beasts one can witness at Wandjina.I'd love to see some photos of the original plants they came from, and also www's plants! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baphomet Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 (edited) Can anyone confirm 100% that Mimosa tenuflora is not the same as Mimosa hostillis? (I was told that it is)I have also been told that Mimosa verrucosa is better than hostillis (better high, approx same DMT%) and that the seeds will be very hard to get soon. (is this true?)I was also wondering if anyone knows what the secret ingredient of Jurema is?*edit* I think I do but I am sworn to secrecy (seriously) Edited July 12, 2008 by baphomet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torsten Posted July 12, 2008 Author Share Posted July 12, 2008 Can anyone confirm 100% that Mimosa tenuflora is not the same as Mimosa hostillis? (I was told that it is)They were two species named separately in central america and in south america. It was later found that they are the same species. So, taxonomically they are the same, but as regional variations can make some difference it is important to keep records of provenance.Up to 10 years ago the main source of seed was mexico, but a drought interrupted that supply and it seems to have never resumed. I have also been told that Mimosa verrucosa is better than hostillis (better high, approx same DMT%) and that the seeds will be very hard to get soon. (is this true?)M.verrucosa is apparently much rarer and some of the main suppliers have run out.Don't know if it is better though - I would think that most of the current commercial MHRB is actually verrucosa and there have been a lot of complaints about how quality has declined since.I was also wondering if anyone knows what the secret ingredient of Jurema is?What makes you say that there is one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baphomet Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 (edited) I was also wondering if anyone knows what the secret ingredient of Jurema is?What makes you say that there is one.*edit* Sorry let me rephrase that, does anyone know of any plants added to Jurema other than Mimosa or Harmala? Maybe there's no secret after all??I was discussing this on another forum, sparked by this article originally posted by hebs:http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...Dcom.microsoft:"The drink is made with the bark of Jurema and more wine or pinga. The other ingredients are a secret that the older guard with zeal." Edited July 12, 2008 by baphomet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehenge Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 None of my MH have flowered despite being in the ground over 3 years. Seeing those photos gives me hope that they may do so some day. They are in the shade which may make a difference. I have a larger one I plan to move to a sunnier location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauve Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 would not reccomend planting this one out in the Aust bush........ as i think this one can have a big ECO impact on the wildlife!I second that ! It is IMPOSSIBLE to NOT grow this plant ! A lot of weed potential ! Be careful !!! And the seeds are perfectly designed to invade the most harsh places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t st tantra Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 'mixed with the popular catholicism'.....the ingredient is not secret,lol,sorry couldnt resist! t s t . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baphomet Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 'mixed with the popular catholicism'.....the ingredient is not secret,lol,sorry couldnt resist! t s t .What do you mean? Are you referring to syrian rue?? Are you sure this is and was always the only other ingredient??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothecary Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 baphomet, we'd all really prefer if you weren't going to be vague and cryptic and just say whatever it is you want to say.I think tantra was joking, I certainly doubt he was referring to Syrian Rue, which has NEVER been an "other" ingredient in Jurema. There is no ethnographic data to indicate traditional Jurema preparations involved anything but water, pounded rootbark, and possibly maracuja (Passiflora edulis juice). For ref see De Azevedo Grunewald 1995 and Ott 1998.If you have such data please put up as I'm sure everyone is very interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxin Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Wow, that one flew right over your head huh? <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_biggrin.pngOh and how would syrian rue be traditional? Thats a persian plant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hebrew Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 with the additions sina pointed out i think rum was the other admixture to jurema ceremonies in modern days at least. alot of rum from what i hear.torsten nice pics and thanks for sharing good work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occidentalis Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 For those that didn't get it, I think tantra was making a joke by saying that catholicism was the 'secret' ingredient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kadakuda Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 awesome pictures Torsten...i think this clears up a LOT of doubt many people have/had about their plants! seed pics would be supoib! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothecary Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Here's mine, from the same seed-set.Just a (poorly) illustrative pic for spination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baphomet Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I just wanted to say how sorry I am for taking this thread so far off topic, I have wanted to apologise since soon after my last post but have been off line for a few days."Wow, that one flew right over your head huh? "No, I was responding to the part where tst tantra said that "the ingredient is not secret".Oh and how would syrian rue be traditional? Thats a persian plant...Where did I say traditional?"baphomet, we'd all really prefer if you weren't going to be vague and cryptic and just say whatever it is you want to say."Yea sorry, I will start another thread about it soon hopefully."I certainly doubt he was referring to Syrian Rue, which has NEVER been an "other" ingredient in Jurema.""The tribes' people told Yatra that she had helped them find the roots of their culture by introducing them to Peganum." I'm guessing that it has been an other ingredient but lets have this discussion another time.Once again I am sorry 'bout this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehenge Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 I looked at my oldest mimosa and realized it did not have thorns on the outer branches. It still has thorns lower down but not on the small thin stems. Anybody noticed this before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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