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1 hour ago, Yeti101 said:

I found this overview on the web (attached) - it's worth a read, though (as always) I run a pretty sceptical eye over these things (not a reflection on Wim personally, that's just me). Definitely some very interesting physiological stuff going on though.

 

One thing to note is the difference between how the breathing method is described in the doc attached, and how some other websites talk about it: "The breathing technique is first and foremost premised on inhaling deeply and exhaling without any use of force!" I've read at least two second-hand accounts of the method that talk about exhaling quite forcefully. I've only been reading about this for a few days, but I think that the nature of the exhalation, in conjunction with different visualisation, could produce different results - this would be consistent with my extensive reading regarding g-tummo meditation (which started about 10 minutes ago) - the difference between forceful breath and gentle breath techniques perhaps?

2016wimhofmethod-revealed.pdf

 

 

Hey mate, I am into week two of the course, and the way breathing is described in the course is not forceful, deep breathing, not extremely slow like when i am meditating, but nothing forced. I have tried really huffing the breathing and I find I can get better breath retention and effect from relaxed deep breathing.. I think your person may not have done the course or understood it exactly.

It is a little bit hard to understand, wims english isnt 100% but if you watch the videos over and watch his examples it makes sense.

I still havent read his book with all the details but i will get to it soon.

:)

 

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thanks for that yeti:wink:, and niggles and sim,

 

I've been watching this, and doing a bit of reading about myself. I note they refer to mindfulness in that doc for reducing fibromyalgia activity, I was introduced to this and have been applying it for something similar with some success, I was sceptical at first.

 

I've also developed Raynaud's phenomenon (fckd peripheral circulation thing) which I'm not gunna fck around with meds for. So I am looking at giving this a crack when I have the time to wrap my head around it. Its not gunna hurt my black as coal soul...

 

Cold dont bother me, actually prefer it and have worked with it in ways some may call meditation and also like Tummo as I kinda understand it. While I was looking into stuff , I found this and chuckled....may give someone else a chuckle

 

"I love putting on a warm shirt fresh off the monk"

2011-12-06.jpg

 

 

Edited by waterboy 2.0
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48 minutes ago, niggles said:

the way breathing is described in the course is not forceful, deep breathing, not extremely slow like when i am meditating, but nothing forced. I have tried really huffing the breathing and I find I can get better breath retention and effect from relaxed deep breathing.

That's the impression I got from the pdf in my last post (which, AFAIK, is Wim Hof approved). 

 

48 minutes ago, niggles said:

I think your person may not have done the course or understood it exactly

I thought as much. 

 

@waterboy 2.0: I've had Raynaud's  since I was a kid, so yes, I'll be interested to see how this goes. Warm shirt, lol. Anyone who masters this will be very popular on mid-winter camp-outs. 

 

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I am keen to see if WHM would help you with your circulation issues wb and yeti.

I tried out the poor circulation exercises today for the first time... I had my feet and hands in a snow water mountain stream for 3 minutes each.. It was interesting how quickly the pain of cold disappeared and other things started to happen.

 

 

 

In other WHM related information - I am into second week of the program now..  I am finding an interesting effect happen..

With the breathing you are meant to be able to take more physical exertion as you are more oxygenated. I am definitely noticing a difference.. if i do the breathing I can do more pushups, hold physically difficult poses for longer. The interesting thing is, I notice when i do something with the breathing, say pushups, I get these electrical signals zinging down my arms, every time.. if i do it wihtout the breathing.. no strange signals.

It is interesting and not painful or uncomfortable. I am not yet sure what it means but I will investigate further.

 

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Thanks Yeti.  I like the PDF version - something I can consume in my own time and pace.

 

I'm thinking of giving this method a go to solve a 'nervous' tic I've developed in my right eye that's been bugging me for nearly 3 years.  Beat's botox...  I'll post back here if i find it helpful.

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I can't see any seeders for the link.

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it works :wink: magnet link is missing trackers so use torrent file. 

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At this rate I'll be ready for the cold next winter. 

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So Just a little update... Im coming to the end of week 2 in the course..

It feels like I am starting to get to grips with the whole mentally tightening my circulatory system before I get in the cold. (meaning i can make my body do the constricting peripheral blood vessels before I get in the cold) which makes getting in a cold shower much less shocking. It is still a bit uncomfortable to stand under fully cold water, but at times it almost feels pleasant. I find my skin warms up quite quickly now after the showers, I dont feel any discomfort from it. My stretches are getting better, more pushups, much easier. Feel a little bit supermany already.

 

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I've been doing body meditations where I focus on say, a tense muscle, and try to find where the tension itself originates, and then even further. What I find is there tend to be certain local points where the tension can be released, generally through visualising in a somatic sense the nerve endings, muscle fibres etc releasing and relaxing. It definitely helps, but is slow work. Applying an energy natural to yourself reiki perhaps :P where further blockages are found can help. My 2 cents.

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4 hours ago, niggles said:

So Just a little update... Im coming to the end of week 2 in the course..

It feels like I am starting to get to grips with the whole mentally tightening my circulatory system before I get in the cold. (meaning i can make my body do the constricting peripheral blood vessels before I get in the cold) which makes getting in a cold shower much less shocking. It is still a bit uncomfortable to stand under fully cold water, but at times it almost feels pleasant. I find my skin warms up quite quickly now after the showers, I dont feel any discomfort from it. My stretches are getting better, more pushups, much easier. Feel a little bit supermany already.

 

 

 

I'm kind of at the beginning of my second week and am having some progress.  Holds are longer, showers are fun, the cold hot cold etc is great, each progressive cold is easier and doing the breathing at the same time today I didn't notice the coldness of the cold at all.

 

During one of the breathing cycles this morning I had a spontaneous intense heat experience which I wasn't expecting.  I imagine that is what we'll consciously be generating and directing later on.

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25 minutes ago, simhanada said:

 

 

I'm kind of at the beginning of my second week and am having some progress.  Holds are longer, showers are fun, the cold hot cold etc is great, each progressive cold is easier and doing the breathing at the same time today I didn't notice the coldness of the cold at all.

 

During one of the breathing cycles this morning I had a spontaneous intense heat experience which I wasn't expecting.  I imagine that is what we'll consciously be generating and directing later on.

 

Thats bloody awesome! Im glad you're giving it a crack, I sometimes get cold chills through my body when i am doing the breathing. I think there are times I feel warm as well.

Just had my shower then. I could definitely feel my body tightening up when I told it I was getting in the cold shower.

I been chatting to some folks who have completed the course.. They tell me that now they really crave the cold and get in cold water every day because they want to.

Sounds weird and amazing.

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the shelf thingo exersise he does in week 6 at 28min looks intimidating lol 

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Hey Niggles, I wanted to thank you for this interesting thread ! I started the free video "exercices" as soon as you posted about it because it intrigued me and I remembered some interesting reads from Stanislav Grof but never achieved any special state with hyperventilation, holotropic breath etc.

 

The Wim Hof breathing cycle works well, I indeed achieved some spectacular (for me lol) feats, but what I find priceless are the experiences and feelings: I am naturally high ! It is a bit post-ayahuasca like. Maybe because of a physical process or maybe because when focusing on breathing you sometimes achieve internal silence which, as I found before, may kickstart bliss states.

 

I am of course interested in trying more ...but as it is summer in my subtropical corner, the "cold" water that comes out of my shower reaches 30 to 40°C...I guess that I have to wait for Winter. 

 

By the way, maybe I am crazy, something amazes me every time I complete a "breathing cycle": during and after the 15 seconds that close the cycle and even a little further after, I can actually taste co2 (or 02 whatever) it is exactly like inhaling the gas in a soda bottle ! Is it just me or...?

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I'm struggling with the breathing cycle concept.  I confess I have watched the video or researched more than the document Yeti posted -  fuck i'm lazy sometimes (with some things).  The breath in without forcibly breathing out cycle - is this a slow cycle?  ie. do you wait for the inhaled breath to 80-90% dissipate?  Or is it a faster cycle?  ie. with smaller intakes?

 

When I started this week with my own interpretation, i seemed on the verge of hyperventilation.  Not so by day2.  Can't seem to keep focused for the full 30 breaths or so (but have had a big week recently).

 

FWIW between the WHM and my gluten free diet at the moment i must confirm that eye twitching, whilst not completely gone, seems about 80% less noticeable.

 

Fuck cold showers.... yet.  ::wave-finger::lol:

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The first cold shower was the worst by far lol, idk really about the breathing, I've just been letting go and really not trying to exhale amd inhaling as soon as I stop exhaling. 2.5 min with no air last night B) I didn't even notice time going by. I reckon it does feel a little hyperventilation ish but that would make scenes, lots of tingling in the hands going on. I think with hyperventilation you can't really stop yourself though and then pass out, and from the videos of hyperventilating people I've seen they are breathing much faster and exhaling all the way. 

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I think part of why this differs from hyperventilating is how you exhale, @CrayZ - I read it this way: because you breathe out by relaxing there's quite a bit of residual breath left - I've tried both and I get much more dizziness from forcing the breath out. Mind you, I'm doing diaphragm breathing, which I think lends itself to this type of thing. I'm thinking I'll have to bite the bullet and buy it :), plus whatever I can find on g-tummo mediation.

 

I've only done hands & feet in cold water, but I might go for a dip in the ocean tomorrow. No cold showers for a while though. I'm saving money by not using heaters, so I am getting a fair bit of practice with being a bit cold. 

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I get better results (so far) if I hyperventilate; I use the upper chest opposed the diaphragm breathing. When breathing with the diaphragm (like in yoga or playing wind instrument) it is impossible to hyperventilate (in my case). 

I am not sure what the best way to do the breathing so I try to balance between dynamic and full inspiration (feeling the chest really expanding) and then letting go the expiration without too much precipitation nor constriction. I think that the important part is to not pause between breaths.

 

In Japan they have onsen (hot springs) and usually you can find a very cold bath next to the scalding hot ones. It is quite a shock to the system at first (from very hot to cold) but then you feel like on a floating cloud of endorphins. It is maybe a similar mechanism in the Wim Hof method ?

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So Im having a bit of trouble with the quote button..

Mauve - yes I def get a taste when i am doing the breathing rounds, it is familiar but i hadnt associated it with co2, i don tknow if i have tasted it before? But there is a flavour to the breathing roundS!

 

CrayZ - one breath cycle for me takes about 3 seconds ish. deep breath in, exhale but do not completely empty your lungs, when i breathe normally i dont completely empty my lungs, same thing here, not psuhing or forcing anything.

I dont really know what you mean abou tbeing on the edge of hyperventilation, the theory of the method is about hyperoxygenation, and I def feel altered when i am doing it, tingles, ringing, nice feelings, but i associate that with the extra o2 in my system. At first i found i thard to keep track of my breaths, i use my fingers to keep track.. but really it isnt about doing exactly 30 - just doing it until you feel the hyperoxygenation effects... its usually around 30 breaths - 35 for me.

Hope that helps!

 

Bedofspines - yeah i go from one breath to the next without pause, its not hurried, but a continuous cycle.

 

Yeti101 - i try to do deep breaths into my tummy if you know what i mean.. i hope the info i just sent you helps!

 

mauve - glad youre enjoying and giving it a shot - i think the breathing should be as relaxed and natural feeling as it can be with a deep breath, just what comes naturally to me seems to be what i am seeing wim do and what is giving me effect. :)

 

Im really pleased youre all showing interest and giving it a shot, had some lovely sabers over at my house last night and we had a play with it too. good stuff!

I just finished week 2 - gonna watch week 3 vid right now!

 

Edited by niggles
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Just wanted to remind everyone to not attempt any "hyperventilating activities" near water nor dangerous places/situations. For example, check the wiki page on shallow water blackout :wacko:

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shallow_water_blackout

 

Holy fucking fuck

 

Im worried about taking a bath now

 

Heres the basic explanation:

 

Otherwise unexplained blackouts underwater have been associated with the practice ofhyperventilation.[1][2][3][5] Survivors of shallow water blackouts often report using hyperventilation as a technique to increase the time they can spend underwater. Hyperventilation, or over-breathing, involves breathing faster and/or deeper than the body naturally demands and is often used by divers in the mistaken belief that this will increaseoxygen (O2) saturation. Although this appears true intuitively, under normal circumstances the breathing rate dictated by the body alone already leads to 98-99% oxygen saturation of the arterial blood and the effect of over-breathing on the oxygen intake is minor. What is really happening differs from divers' understanding; these divers are extending their dive by closing down the body's natural breathing mechanism, not by increasing oxygen load. The mechanism is as follows:

The primary urge to breathe is triggered by rising carbon dioxide (CO2) levels in the bloodstream.[5] CO2 builds up in the bloodstream when O2 is metabolized and it needs to be expelled as a waste product. The body detects CO2 levels very accurately and relies on this to control breathing.[5]Hyperventilation artificially depletes this (CO2) causing a low blood carbon dioxide condition called hypocapnia. Hypocapnia reduces the reflexive respiratory drive, allows the delay of breathing and leaves the diver susceptible to loss of consciousness from hypoxia. For most healthy people the first sign of low O2 is a greyout or unconsciousness: there is no bodily sensation that warns a diver of an impending blackout.

 

--------------------------

 

Im very familiar with BP greyouts and some blackouts.  Supposing there isnt a huge difference in speed of onset etc you would be lucky to muster the clarity of purpose and physical coordination to emerge and breathe during greyout symptoms; it wouldnt be as simple as "oh im greying out, cool that means im about to pass out  I better emerge. Ok good now i have to keep my face above the water long enough for oxygen to reach my brain".  As well as losing vision you have convulsions and meanwhile confusion quickly obscures all knowledge of what and where you are.  The symptoms of a BP greyout subside as rapidly as they began.

Edited by ThunderIdeal
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I know what you mean with the blood-pressure blackouts - I would not want that to happen when I was underwater!

 

From what I can tell, there are reason that Wim's breathing method is the way it is - and avoiding hypocapnia is one of them. How hard and completely you breath out made a big difference to how much I felt like I was hyperventilating. I found forceful expulsion in the wim-hof cycle made me dizzy, but the exhalation without force did not. I have't watched enough of the videos and read enough of his stuff to get a full picture of what's happening, but I'm pretty sure that hyperventilation and hypocapnia are not what Wim has in mind. 

 

But yes, full-on hyperventilation and swimming seem like a bad mix - can't believe I used to do that. 

 

On a related note, I found this article about g-Tummo - it has science and stuff: http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0058244

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Suggest reading the entire wiki subsection in shallow water blackout or the whole article (a few minutes reading).  For instance hypocapnia is occurring well before you are aware of it eg dizzy, tingling fingers.

 

It seems to me like if you are going to test yourself underwater you must take precautions lest die stupidly.

 

 

ujjayi breathing is my go to, nadi shodana is surprising, ive received some unexpected instructions during yoga classes (eg inhale in through the top of your head and out the soles of your feet.. which indredibly can be done, at least mentally).  Ujjayi produces a sound which can be an object of focus and "drown out thoughts".  Nadi shodana works when you REALLY refine and slow it down, so that you barely breathe at all, but its not worth trying if you have snot or anything since the smooth flow of air in a single nostril is paramount.

 

I dunno, great thread but I havent chosen to try berserker iceman technique mostly because I dont encounter serious cold.

Edited by ThunderIdeal

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I won't be going near the water and I don't reckon you need too, I think the point of all this to voluntarily influence the nervous system and not a who can hold there breath the longest contest. This was pretty interesting imo http://m.pnas.org/content/111/20/7379.abstract

 

''Subjects in the intervention group were trained for 10 d in meditation (third eye meditation), breathing techniques (i.a., cyclic hyperventilation followed by breath retention), and exposure to cold (i.a., immersions in ice cold water). The control group was not trained. Subsequently, all subjects underwent experimental endotoxemia (i.v. administration of 2 ng/kg Escherichia coliendotoxin). In the intervention group, practicing the learned techniques resulted in intermittent respiratory alkalosis and hypoxia resulting in profoundly increased plasma epinephrine levels. In the intervention group, plasma levels of the anti-inflammatory cytokine IL-10 increased more rapidly after endotoxin administration, correlated strongly with preceding epinephrine levels, and were higher. Levels of proinflammatory mediators TNF-α, IL-6, and IL-8 were lower in the intervention group and correlated negatively with IL-10 levels. Finally, flu-like symptoms were lower in the intervention group. In conclusion, we demonstrate that voluntary activation of the sympathetic nervous system results in epinephrine release and subsequent suppression of the innate immune response in humans in vivo

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