Warning on Subs

[kindness]

This thread is getting interesting

I disagree with quite a bit of what you have said mutant. In practice a 'bad trip' is going to happen regardless of set and setting, I think it is utter bullshit to think that we can control the environment around us and our mindset to such a degree that every experience we have will be sunshine and balloons. Sure set and setting play a part in a trip, it could also be said that this is encompassed by having 'intent' when tripping. Setting what exactly it is your wish to attain or experience goes a long way toward understanding what the eventual experience shows you. It is unlikely that one would wish to partake in something like mushrooms in a bad situation or headspace if they actually sat down beforehand and meditated on what they wished from the experience... further if this became part of their 'practice' when doing such a thing they would again be unlikely to do so in unfamiliar or crap situations.

I do not consider myself an expert, that would be weird, but I know that to expect rainbows everytime one ingests is naive. Having hard experiences with plants/fungi is just as beneficial as glowing easy ones, actually probably more so. It forces you to look at hard stuff and integrate that with your worldview or outlook on life, i.e. opening your eyes.

peace

edited post so it didn't write people off.

Edited April 24, 2010 by meanies

[mac]

mutant Letting aside chiral casually talking about XX grams of gried material + lemon [btw i didn't know this about lemon... how much does the lemon potentiate the same dried dose???

2-3g finely chopped & thrown into some freshly squeezed OJ also dose the trick, seems to help extract the goodies so they can kick in faster (also L-ascorbic acid or vitamin C or multivitamin taken at the same time may help)

have also used vodka that turns a nice haze of blue then added OJ

Edited April 21, 2010 by mac

[ThunderIdeal]

vitamin C seems to intensify effects, but i'm not certain and not interested in dosing without it anymore to try verifying it. anyway vitamin C has a really kind of sweet flavour which doesn't hurt one bit.

have you done higher than 2gms? is this 2gms at once or over a period of time? what sort of settings? trips can be vastly different depending on what you are doing and the method and times that you ingest. ever done the total darkness, total silence, all by yourself trip?

i really wish more people would, then i'm pretty sure the amount of weird experiences reported would increase to about 100%...i actually can't stress enough how different a trip is when it's done like this. this setting is crucial if you want the mushroom to truly unfold.

 

yes. i find everybody can have interesting insights from tripping in all sorts of environments, but (and this sounds lame) if you haven't tripped WITHIN you haven't REALLY tripped, not IMHO.

-------------------------------

the trip report on the previous page is fascinating, i really liked the description of the killing machine, and the cold uncaring environment. initially i came to the same conclusion which you reached, because these kinds of hallucinations can scratch away at the ego and pave the way for an amazing trip. my advice might have been to become death, to surrender to that destructive force. however this experience clearly differed from normal, because you say the psychadelic realm had been left behind. who knows? i find it comforting that you came to the same conclusion, but it isn't really a comforting report. psychic attack or the perception of psychic attack is extremely disturbing, even devastating.

[holymountain]

I found it interesting that you guys had found the opposite, carnival CEVs, normal OEVs.

 

definitely not normal OEVs...in fact it's hard to tell whats open eyes and whats closed eyes as the visions seem to take over. you forget you even have eyes that you can open and close. you may need higher doses to reach these areas. with cubes it's generally 8-12g that really kick open the door. but everyone is different and many don't see the point of pushing on. it's certainly not for everyone and i don't mean that in a patronising or elitist way. having higher doses certainly doesn't make you cooler or tougher.. although it may have in chirals case

[mac]

(N20) bulbs go well with lower amounts, they take you further without going too far or staying too long

Edited April 21, 2010 by mac

[naja naja]

(N20) bulbs go well with lower amounts, they take you further without going too far or staying too long

 

Nangs go well with EVERYTHING!

Except alcohol, that will give u worst headache next day ever!

[mutant]

if they were sub potency 3/4 to 1.5 gms +vit c would be more usual.

t s t .

 

thanks mate

Re:Holy

sorry mutant i understand what you mean and appreciate your input but can't help thinking 'you have not had these experiences'. so i find it frustrating to argue over things that you haven't actually done. if you had had these experiences then your thoughts would be based on experience rather than theories. those that have been to similar states have spoken about in previous posts...there is a consensus on the carnival etc. these people have had an experience and are in a position to talk about it.

alright, then you don't appreciate my input at all! So you only want believers to comment... I will therefore have to make my commenting even more inappropriate

for you to say 'your friend had his ego crushed? maybe he shouldn't have tripped' seems odd.

&

ego death is one of the defining features of a full psychedelic trip. it's not a product of wrong set and setting or irresponsible use.

yeah? cutting off your leg crushes your ego. Having a bad trip just because you took too much or you took it at the wrong place or time crushes your ego. The concept of impacting a negative hit on your head/self is certainly ego-bashing. It might even be helpful. Fuck, I can see the benefit in someone loosing his leg, his dick, or his right arm. Sure. But there must be better and more meaningful ways to improve oneself, insult the ego more creatively, I mean, beyond cyberalien mantises, and a bunch of clowns enjoying to disturb us. Maybe not. You didn't answer anyway, you chose to dismiss my opinion as invalid....

Maybe this is the custom-made vision you needed, how should I know? You're the one who seems to relate all this to distant worlds, while to me it's pretty obviously it's your own 'shit'.

re:ego death

there is no real ego death. A wide variety of experiences cause temporary ego elimination/crushing, from normal everyday experiences, emotional stuff, traumas, accidents plus dissociatives, large dose psychs etc. Dissociatives cause this separation much more easily, without having to take an extreme dose of psychs. Not a comparison. Just thoughts...

A bad trip is always unpleasant and paranoid and/or fearful, it always hurts the ego and self-image. That's not necessarily good, especially if it doesn't make at all sense... that's what I am saying.

Bad trip is not the same as a difficult but meaningful experience. Your friends experience was not at all meaningful. It was cold, disturbing and dull. I understand all believers out there don't wanna admit they had a 'bad trip', so they always say 'bad trips are the most teaching of them all'. No god damn it, a bad trip is a failed trip! It teaches when and where and how we should trip, or rather how we shouldn't.

In a previous post tst said "a strained tea avoids this and dissociation occurs very easily" , therefore I assumed dissociation is something people are after when doing large doses [and more realistic visions is another goal propably] , when after of the 'other', since it's pretty impossible / rare to have dissociative symptoms on a normal - middle dose of psychs. I understand that normal psych experiences do not make you feel you're really in another world, you have to go higher to archieve that - so there's the association with dissociatives.

[mutant]

you claimed a 3g dose to be dangerous...

no I claimed 28 grams are a dangerous dose, and so is casually speaking about 10 grams

what are you basing that on?

common sense. the notion that just because these substances are not physically toxic, that doesn't mean extreme overdoses are a good idea...

you then instead recommend i take dissociatives?

no, I didn't recommend anything man, I know better, and I know psychedelic theists dislike dissos. I was just making a point you are choosing not to see.

the goal of the trip was not to obtain a dissociative experience but to see where the mushrooms could take him.

so you are exploring 'the mushroom', not yourself, nor the world. Maybe that's why you take the visions so literally.

the friend had previously had less intense trips at 4g...though those trips had music to accompany which no doubt influenced the content of the trip. my friend believes that the reason things got so far out was because he asked for it.

what makes you think that this paranoid trip is what your friend was asking, and not him being punished for being so arrogant he thought he had conquered and understood the mysteries of subs, dosing too often, asking arrogant / unanswered questions, wanting to see it all etc etc?

he haggled with the beings and demanded to be shown more than what he was getting. thus he got more than he bargained for and found himself in spaces he was overwhelmed by.

alright, that has happened to me. Twice, on microdot and on a strong blotter back in 2000 or something. I call it a bad trip, and it has generous amounts of paranoia and hallucinations that are totally unproductive, totally with no real meaning, totally originating from oneself. Better not be in a social setting at such a time, for sure

You wanna claim it's the real deal, it's some kind of message you have to unscramble. You're saying I cannot understand it - neither can you! I say it might be nothing. Just giving a perspective, not doing it for you actually, you seemed determined to ignore whatever I say as soon as I dared to express an opinion on your friends last experience.

finally, the whole idea that we are just accessing parts of ourselves is valid. but only on the conditon [my note: ?!?!??!] that you accept that the whole world, universe and beyond is also just a part of ourselves. the places that were visited were just as much an illusion as our daily lives here on planet earth are. as above so below, within you and without you etc.

Lol, it's valid, ONLY IF WE ACCEPT THE DELLUSIONAL IDEA that the whole world is in the head?? Fuck no. The world is real, the cyber mantis were in the head that night. End of story. Final wisdom.

The idea that visions are manifestations of ourselves is as old as the discovery and research on psychedelics. The word not only says the notion is valid, but also the very word means exactly this.

Alright, you say I haven't been there? [meaning casually ingesting psychs once a month or having heroic doses once in a while to hear what the spirit has to say?] fuck yeah I haven't been.

That does not prevent me from having my ideas and expressing my opinion.

Psychedelics can produce states that resemble psychotic episodes a lot. Bad trips even more so. Bad trips are literally identical to psychotic episodes. Psychotics cannot understand the difference between reality and hallucination, voices etc. So, if one is inclined to believe the voices, whatever they say, they might be driven by their dellusion. If you're determined that the visions you see are real, then I cannot convince you for the opposite, nto do I want to. I just thought you did want to discuss, now it seems you want to only discuss this with the cult of sub-eaters who believe in spirits and other dimentions.

You say I don't know? I say you don't know too, because you're not describing anything original or something with some great meaning. You are describing a dull weird fucked up vision you don't have a clue what it means apart that it bashed your friends ass in and his ego too, and accusing me of not understanding. Sure I don't understand a smart guy that chooses to believe absurd visions necessarily must mean something.

I am not saying you or your friend are psychotic, of course not, just mentioning a psychotic doesn't know it when the crisis is coming, so he cannot identify the psychotic state of mind, so he explains the paranoia with logic. But still, paranoia is against logic ;)

[mutant]

meanies> you say you disagree with some of what I say, but as far as I understand you are referring to someone else, because I didn't say what you understood.

In practice a 'bad trip' is going to happen regardless of set and setting

yeah? so it has to do with fate and the mood of the spirits then??

I think it is utter bullshit to think that we can control the environment around us and our mindset to such a degree that every experience we have will be sunshine and balloons

agreed, I never said anything like what you imply. in fact you haven't got a clue where I am coming from, obviously, as I don't trip for fun or happiness.

Sure set and setting play a part in a trip, it could also be said that this is encompassed by having 'intent' when tripping.

ok, you admit 'it plays a part' , and "it can be said ..". It doesn't only play a part. it's a major part. And intent and expectations ARE a part of the set.

Anyways, you obviously understood little of what I said, your post is interesting but full of useless generalisations like

Having hard experiences with plants/fungi is just as beneficial as glowing easy ones, actually probably more so.

CONCLUSION

It's also pretty obvious that believers [you know who you are] can't stand to listen to ideas they perceive as negative to the plants/faith.

Only this is a religion, and religion is not explained, rationalised, worded out.

Holymountain implies I cannot have an opinion. Not because I haven't been there, but because I deny the religion of psychedelics. But we all know my opinion is fine and open-minded, it just doesn't sound too good to theist ears ;)

PS: Thanks a lot to mac and people than make me remember I am not an alien, just often misunderstood. It seems dissos are not so out-of-place in this discussion ;)

[Chiral]

Mutant I clearly left you a post that deserves rebuttal and you ignored me...

[mutant]

Mutant I clearly left you a post that deserves rebuttal and you ignored me...

 

no it doesn't...

[ThunderIdeal]

chiral lol

"No god damn it, a bad trip is a failed trip!"

speaking for myself, i just don't agree with you and hardly even read your posts anymore when you get into these big conversations. i comprehend your stance, that's fine. think what you want, do what you want. see what i did there? answer: i didn't tell you how to think and act.

frankly where's your tryptamine experience? that's why i pay more attention to others. i've heard your opinions, i've tangled with you, and now it's all noise in my ears. it seems like you're just trying to impose your opinion on others.

"The world is real, the cyber mantis were in the head that night. End of story. Final wisdom."

i rest my case. you go on and on, mistaking your own opinion for truth. you aren't as open-minded as you think. you're like me when i say that getting drunk stinks, except you never shut up about it.

maybe this will make me sound like a dick because i'm bypassing the whole argument and can't be fucked putting my mind to task, but i had to say it.

[mutant]

I have no tryptamine experience.

you obviously take this

End of story. Final wisdom.

seriously, literally, so yeah, you'd better not read my posts nor reply to me, especially as you did here, with no arguements, only dismissing me. It's pretty obvious we are on a different frequency.

for the record this aforementioned quote is from fear&loathing, where raul duke arrives with a head full of acid to the hotel reception..

you're like me when i say that getting drunk stinks, except you never shut up about it.

we are not the same. I argue. You just dismiss me. And why should I shut the fuck up? We are having a nice conversation, I happen to find this one of the best threads re:psych use. Why should I shut up? One different opinion will not harm other enlightened opinions, especially since you have arrived at a carnival consensus ;)

Oh, I don't tell others how to act and what to believe. Maybe my ideas are just fine, and you can't afford to admit this, so you have to accuse me of something

because i'm bypassing the whole argument

exactly

Edited April 21, 2010 by mutant

[mud]

I was wondering

can anyone compare azures, or cyans to subs?

From their own' or a foafs experience?

[Chiral]

I was wondering

can anyone compare azures, or cyans to subs?

From their own' or a foafs experience?

 

should be very very similar even though I've not ever been able to compare but Stamets seems to think tat P. eucalypta is are the same as cyans....so is P. subaeruginosa it's own specie...dunno.

Psilocybe azurescens taxonomy paper

Paul Stamets and Jochen Gartz A new caerulescent Psilocybe from the Pacific Coast of Northwestern America

Paul Stamets and Jochen Gartz

A new caerulescent Psilocybe from the Pacific Coast of Northwestern America

Abstract: A new taxon from the Pacific Northwest of North American is described. This species can be placed into Stirps Cyanescens of the Sections Caerulescents Singer (Singer, 1948; Singer & Smith, 1958a) or into the more recently constructed Section Cyanescens as amended by Guzman (1983). This new species is autumnal and lignicolous, living in soils enriched with deciduous wood- debris, characterestic of riparian woodlands of the coastal regions of the Pacific Northwest of North America. Strongly bruising bluish to indigo-black, this Psilocybe species features a hazelnut to caramel-colored pileus and a stipe whose base radiates clusters of white rhizomorphs. This novel species is delineated through a combination of morphological and microscopic feautures and possesses unusally high concentrations of psilocybin, psilocin and baeocystin.

Psilocybe azurescens Stamets & Gartz sp. nova

Pileo ochreato-brunneo, hygrophano, viscido, pellicula separabili intructo, conico dein convexo, plano 30-100mm lato, umbonato. Lamellis sinuato-adnatis, pallidis vel brunneo. Stipite albo, stricto, elongato, 90-200mm, fibrillis cum strigositate basis caerulescentibus. Carne caerulescente. Sporis 12-13,5 x 6,5-8.0 um. Cystidiis fusoid-ventricosis. Cheilocystidiis 23-28 x 6.5-8.0 um; pleurocystidiis 23-35 x 9-10 um.

Macroscopic Features: Pileus 30-100mm in diameter, conic to convex, expanding to broadly convex and eventually flattening with age with a pronounced, persistent broad umbo; surface smooth, viscous when moist, covered by a separable gelatinous pellicle; chestnut to ochraceous brown to caramel in color often becoming pitted with dark blue or bluish black zones, hygrophanous, fading to light straw color in drying, strongly bruising blue when damaged; margin even, sometimes irregular and eroded at maturity, slightly incurved at first, soon decurved, flattening with maturity, translucent striate and often leaving a fibrillose annular zone in the upper regions of the stem. Lamellae ascending, sinuate to adnate, brown, often stained info-black where injured, close, with two tiers of lamellulae, mottled, edges withish. Spore-print dark purplish brown to purplish black in mass. Stipe 90-200mm long by 3-6mm thick, silky white, dingy brown from the base or in age, hollow at maturity. Composed of twisted, cartilaginous tissue. Base of stem thickening downwards, often curved, and characterized by coarse white aerial tufts of mycelium, often with azure tones. Mycelium surrounding stipe base densely rhizomorphic, silky white, tenaciously holding the wood-chips together, strongly bruising bluish upon disturbance. Odor none to slightly farinaceous. Taste extremely bitter.

Microscopic Features: Clamp connections abundant. Ixocutis gelatinous, hyaline hyphae, 1.5 - 5.5um in diameter. Sub-pellis a brownish band, more highly pigmented than pileal trama. Lamellar trama regular, composed of hyphae 5 - 15 um in diameter, slightly encrusted with brown pigments; subhumenium a subcellular compact layer, 10um thick. Pileal trama 5 - 15um thick. Pleurocystidia abundant, fusoid-ventricose, tapering to a narrow but short neck, bluntly papillate, 23-35 x 9-10 um. Cheilocystidia forming a nongelatinized sterile band, nearly identical to pleurocystidia measuring 23-28 x 6.5-8.0 um. Basidia 4-spored, measuring 27-30.5 x 6.3-7.2 um. Spores 12-13.5 x 6.5-8.0 um, rich reddish brown in KOH and light purplish vinaceous in aqeous ammoniacal solutions. Wall thickness less than 1 um. Caulocystidia abundant above the annular zone and similar to pleurocystidia but thicker walled and more irregular, measuring 43um long with undulated necks. Cortial hyphae on stipe slightly thickened, almost subgelatinized walls, 3 - 5 um in diameter with clamps and brown intra-perital pigment. Caulocystidia absent below annular zone. Tissue notably awash with bluish tones.

Habit & Habitat: Cespitose to gregarious on deciduous wood-chips and/or in sandy soils rich in lignicolous debris. Aspect collyboid, generating an extensive, dense and tenacious mycelial mat, Psilocybe azurescens causes the whitening of wood. Fruitings begin in late September and continue until harsh frost, usually mid-November.

Distribution: Specimens were first collected on an alluvial plain along the Columbia river network near Astoria, Oregon in 1979. Fruitings of this species are known from Oregon and Washington. Holotype: A dried collection of fruitbodies cultivated on alder (Alnus rubra) wood-chips using the methods described by Stamets (1993) outdoors, harvested on 11/21/93 and deposited at WTU. Original clone used for propagation was from Astoria, Oregon on 10/30/79. Additional collections from Tillamook and Astoria, Oregon in October 1990 were collected by one of the authors (Jochen Gartz) and deposited in LZ.

Taxonomic Considerations: Psilocybe azurescens generally resembles Psilocybe bohemica Sebek, Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa Guzman & Stamets, Psilocybe cyanescens Wakefield, Psilocybe eucalypta Guzman & Walting, Psilocybe mairei Singer, Psilocybe serbica Moser & Horak and Psilocybe collybioides Singer & Smith. Complete reproductive barriers have been found be one of the authors (Jochen Gartz) between Psilocybe azurescens and Psilocybe bohemica as well as between Psilocybe azurescens and Pacific Northwest European collections of Psilocybe cyanescens.

In it's natural habitat, the general aspect of Psilocybe azurescens is most similar to Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa Stamets & Guzman but differs in several significant macroscopic features. Psilocybe azurescens has pleurocystidia whereas Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa has long necked, lageniform cheilocystidia, often forked, while Psilocybe azurescens has singly formed, fusoid ventricose cheilocystidia with short necks. Macroscopically Psilocybe azurescens is much larger in form and quickly bruises bluish to indigo-black upon handling. The bruising reaction in P. cyanofibrillosa is less intense and comparatively slow in appearing, which directly reflects it's low psilocybin content (Bocks, 1968; Stamets et al. 1980). Both species are characterized by non- undulating pileal margins.

Psilocybe azurescens also closely resembles a variety of Pacific Northwest Psilocybe widely reported as Psilocybe cyanescens Wakefield, a species originally discovered in the British Isles. This variety of Psilocybe cyanescens gained considerable notoriety in the mid-1970's (Weil, 1975, 1977; Pollock, 1975; Ott, 1975; Guzman & Ott, 1976; Guzman et al., 1976). Yet, this mushroom has probably been confused with other taxa. The mushroom portrayed in many popular field guides and identified as Psilocybe cyanescens (Arora, 1979 & 1991; Lincoff & Mitchel, 1977; Lincoff, 1981; Menser, 1977; Ott & Bigwood, 1978; Stamets, 1978) differs from the type in the relative number of surface cystidia.

In the Pacific Northwest, Psilocybe azurescens can be macroscopically distinguished from Psilocybe cyanescens by the following combination of features. Psilocybe azurescens has a cap margin characteristically even, not undulating and has a persitent, pronounced umbo at the disc when the pileus fully expands. The variety of P. cyanescens from the Pacific Northwest is characterized by distinctive, exaggerated undulating margin, resembling a sine-wave at maturity and is notably non-umbonate. In general, Psilocybe azurescens, as it is presently understood, is substantially larger than most collections of Psilocybe cyanescens. Microscopically, the pleurocystidia in Psilocybe azurescens are mucronate whereas the Pacific Northwest form Psilocybe cyanescens can become distinctly capitate at maturity. Otherwise, the microscopic features of Psilocybe azurescens are largely coincident within the range reported for the Pacific Northwest Psilocybe cyanescens.

Krieglsteiner (1984, 1986) extensively studies collections of Psilocybe from Europe, some of which were determined to be Psilocybe cyanescens. He proposed that Psilocybe mairei Singer, Psilocybe serbica Moser & Horak and Psilocybe bohemica could be conspecific with Psilocybe cyanescens Wakefield because these taxa could not be delineated microscopically. However, one significant feature which characterizes Psilocybe bohemica and separates this species from these aforementioned taxa and from Psilocybe azurescens is that the pilei of Psilocybe bohemica become white upon drying. Furthermore, one author (Jochen Gartz) has found complete reproductive barriers between 80 random pairings of monokaryons from Psilocybe azurescens, Psilocybe cyanescens and Psilocybe bohemica. Since monokaryons from single spore isolates from each of these species have proved to be incompatible, these taxa appear to be auto- nomous. Former research (Gartz, 1993) has also shown that complete repro- ductive barriers exist between Pacific Northwest strains of Psilocybe cyanescens and Czechoslovakian collections of Psilocybe bohemica. Mating studies paired single spore isolations and clamp connections failed to form, an indication of incompatibility. Furthermore, monokaryons from a collection of Psilocybe cyanescens (non-pleurocystidiate form) from Austria in October of 1992 also failed to form dikaryotic mycelia when paired with strains of Pacific Northwest Psilocybe cyanescens (pleurocystidiate form), Psilocybe azurescens and Psilocybe bohemica, respectively.

A closely related species is Psilocybe eucalypta Guzman & Watling. Psilocybe eucalypta has smaller and narrower cheilocystidia, only 15-25 x 4.4-6.6 um in comparison to Psilocybe azurescens cheilocystidia which measure 23-28 x 6.5-8.0 um. Furthermore, Psilocybe azurescens produces a more massive fruitbody, with a pileal diameter of 30 to 100 mm whereas P. eucalypta is smaller, falling within a range of 15-38 mm. P. eucalypta has thus far only been reported from the region centering around eastern Australia. Lastly, Psilocybe serbica Moser & Horak (1968), a temperate species, can be easily separated from Psilocybe azurescens by it's lack of pleurocystidia and it's non-umbonate form. Another related species, Psilocybe collybioides Singer & Smith, known at present from Argentina, shares many features common to Psilocybe azurescens save for it's exceptionally small spores, measuring only 5.5-10 x 3.5-6.5 um. These com- binations of features separate Psilocybe azurescens from the aforementioned taxa. Psilocybe azurescens is being named for the soft blue tones present on the mushroom, before handling or damage, especially along the cap margin and in the basal mycelium. Additionally the name also honors the son of one of the authors (Paul Stamets).

Chemical Analyses: In comparison to other species of Psilocybe, the fruitbodies of Psilocybe azurescens contain unusually high concentrations of psilocybin, psilocin and baeocystin - accumulating to more than 2% of the dry biomass of the mushrooms (Beug & Bigwood, 1982; Gartz, 1989, 1992-1994; Wurst et al., 1984). Thin Layer Chromatography (TLC) reveals a nearly identical profile of extracts from P. semilanceata and Psilocybe azurescens (psilocybin, baeocystin and six minor alkaloids), differing only in psilocin content (Gartz, 1985). Baeocystin is present in high concentrations in Psilocybe azurescens and P. semilanceata. Gartz (1993) has determined that baeocystin is also a hallucinogenic compound.

Research by Gartz (1989) showed alkaloid synthesis in Psilocybe cubensis (Earle) Singer is suppressed when the mycelium is grown using agar media supplemented with more than 10% mal sugar. Psilocybe azurescens reacts similarly. Research has also shown that alkaloid content is generally low in the mycelia compared to the fruitbodies. With Psilocybe cubensis, the main alkaloid synthesis occurs during the differentiation of the mycelia to the fruitbodies (Gartz & Muller, 1989). Further, younger fruitbodies frequently have higher alkaloid levels than more mature ones (Gartz, 1992/1993). As Table III shows, specimens grown outdoors in Germany did not vary significantly from those grown in the United States, after dehydratation, even when the supporting substrates were dissimilar.

Table I Indole alkaloid content of collection (LZ) of wild fruitbodies of Psilocybe azurescens from Tillamook, Oregon, USA, October, 1989.

Sample 1: 50mg dry weight, 1.71% Psilocybin, 0.34% Psilocin, 0.41% Baeocyst.

Sample 2: 101mg dry weight, 1.68% Psilocybin, 0.28% Psilocin, 0.38% Baeocyst.

Sample 3: 167mg dry weight, 1.56% Psilocybin, 0.30% Psilocin, 0.32% Baeocyst.

Sample 4: 213mg dry weight, 1.51% Psilocybin, 0.31% Psilocin, 0.28% Baeocyst.

Sample 5: 270mg dry weight, 1.40% Psilocybin, 0.28% Psilocin, 0.19% Baeocyst.

Sample 6: 317mg dry weight, 1.29% Psilocybin, 0.26% Psilocin, 0.27% Baeocyst.

Sample 7: 450mg dry weight, 1.20% Psilocybin, 0.25% Psilocin, 0.31% Baeocyst.

Table II Indole alkaloid content from naturalized, outdoor cultivated specimens of Psilocybe azurescens, from Astoria, Oregon, USA, October, 1990.

Sample 1: 062mg dry weight, 1.78% Psilocybin, 0.38% Psilocin, 0.35% Baeocyst.

Sample 2: 123mg dry weight, 1.75% Psilocybin, 0.39% Psilocin, 0.36% Baeocyst.

Sample 3: 170mg dry weight, 1.58% Psilocybin, 0.34% Psilocin, 0.37% Baeocyst.

Sample 4: 224mg dry weight, 1.43% Psilocybin, 0.28% Psilocin, 0.31% Baeocyst.

Sample 5: 331mg dry weight, 1.18% Psilocybin, 0.19% Psilocin, 0.25% Baeocyst.

Sample 6: 472mg dry weight, 1.20% Psilocybin, 0.20% Psilocin, 0.21% Baeocyst.

Table III Indole alkaloid content from dried, outdoor-cultivated, naturalized specimens of Psilocybe azurescens, from Germany (A) and USA (.

Sample 1: A - 156mg dry weight, 1.62% Psilocybin, 0.42% Psilocin, 0.38% Baeocystin B - 165mg dry weight, 1.72% Psilocybin, 0.38% Psilocin, 0.39% Baeocystin

Sample 2: A - 213mg dry weight, 1.56% Psilocybin, 0,32% Psilocin, 0.28% Baeocystin B - 233mg dry weight, 1.62% Psilocybin, 0.25% Psilocin, 0.24% Baeocystin

Sample 3: A - 312mg dry weight, 1.43% Psilocybin, 0.26% Psilocin, 0.31% Baeocystin B - 341mg dry weight, 1.32% Psilocybin, 0.25% Psilocin, 0.35% Baeocystin

Sample 4: A - 412mg dry weight, 1.17% Psilocybin, 0.31% Psilocin, 0.28% Baeocystin B - 403mg dry weight, 1.21% Psilocybin, 0.38% Psilocin, 0.19% Baeocystin

Sample 5: A - 450mg dry weight, 1.19% Psilocybin, 0.36% Psilocin, 0.24% Baeocystin B - 465mg dry weight, 1.24% Psilocybin, 0.24% Psilocin, 0.30% Baeocystin

Table IV Variation of the amounts of alkaloids in the mycelium of Psilocybe azurescens depending on the concentration of malt extract in solidified agar (1,5%) after 3 weeks of colonization.

1% Malt Extract: 0.31% Psilocybin dry weight, 0.12% Psilocin, 0.12% Baeocyst.

2% Malt Extract: 0.25% Psilocybin dry weight, 0.09% Psilocin, 0.08% Baeocyst.

3% Malt Extract: 0.28% Psilocybin dry weight, 0.08% Psilocin, 0.05% Baeocyst.

4% Malt Extract: 0.27% Psilocybin dry weight, 0.04% Psilocin, 0.03% Baeocyst.

5% Malt Extract: 0.25% Psilocybin dry weight, 0.02% Psilocybin, 0% Baeocystin

6% Malt Extract: 0.18% Psilocybin dry weight, 0% Psilocin, 0% Baeocystin

8% Malt Extract: 0.05% Psilocybin dry weight, 0% Psilocin, 0% Baeocystin

10% Malt Extract: At and above 10% malt extract, the mycelium is non-blueing.

Acknowledgments: The authors would like to thank Scott Redhead and Roy Watling for reviewing the manuscript. The senior author is grateful to Michael Beug and The Evergreen State College for their continued support and to Azureus Stamets for his assistance in the field. The authors also express gratitude to G. K. Mueller from the University of Leipzig Herbarium (LZ) and Marta Semerdzieva of Prague. Paxton Hoag and Mark Herke are credited for first collecting this mushroom. John Allen and Eric Iseman helped in field collections.

Notes: (1) A mushroom reportedly responsible for the death of a child in Kelso, Washington in 1962 was identified by Alexander Smith as Psilocybe baeocystis Singer & Smith (see McCawley et al., 1962; Singer & Smith, 1958a) From the Kelso site, cultures were isolated and mushrooms were grown from mycelial spawn. The cultured specimens have an aspect atypical of Psilocybe baeocystis Singer & Smith and strikingly typical of the Pacific Northwest form of Psilocybe cyanescens. These two species can be easily delineated from one another macroscopically. Furthermore, these authors know of no successes in cultivating P. baeocystis, despite many attempts. In contrast, Psilocybe cyanescens can easily be cultivated on wood-chip substrates. When one of the authors (Paul Stamets) noted these discrepancies to Alexander Smith (1982), he responded that the identification was tentative, made from poorly preserved spore material retrieved from stomach washings and was not without uncertainity.

(2) Psilocybe cyanescens Wakefield was originally described from a collection at the Kew Gardens, Surrey, England. (See Dennis & Wakefield, 1946; Singer & Smith, 1958a; Guzman, 1983). The variety of Psilocybe cyanescens from the Pacific Northwest has abundant and conspicuous pleurocystidia, often with distinctive swollen apices, evenly dispersed over the surface plane of the lamellae. The type collection of Psilocybe cyanescens by Wakefield has so few surface cystidia that they could easily be overlooked (Wakefield, 1946; Singer & Smith, 1958b; Krieglsteiner, 1984). The discrepancies seen between these varieties may be significant at the species level. Further study of these taxa is warranted.

(3) Chang & Mills (1992) propose that P. eucalypta is actually P. subaeruginosa. Guzman et al. (1993) strongly disagree with this synonymy. Krieglsteiner (1984, 1986) believes that P. eucalypta is conspecific with Psilocybe cyanescens.

 

Edited April 22, 2010 by Chiral

[fishstix]

I have been following this thread. It's very interesting indeed.

Something you seem to be chalking your opinions up to Mutant is relating subs with acid. If you take Terence Mckenna's word's on what he thinks of acid, comparing the visions experienced under the influence of LSD and subs or other mushrooms just won't work. Here:

"Some 150 LSD experiences later, however, McKenna is less enthralled with the synthetic drug. "I hope this doesn't insult current LSD fans, but the last time I did it, it seemed like a Sopwith camel or something. We were airborne, and below us were the green fields of France, but you could hear the air shrieking over the control surfaces and feel the wind blasting your face. What I had become used to was the cockpit of the space shuttle. Yes, LSD is a psychedelic drug. But it's a psychedelic drug in the same way a fruit fly can fly.""

From this link: http://www.levity.com/rubric/mckenna.html

[ThunderIdeal]

acid is good. the effects mckenna claimed to get from acid don't seem to be very typical. also i don't really understand that quote. sopwith camel? the way a fruit fly can fly? you have to wonder if he was even taking actual acid.

I have no tryptamine experience.

we are not the same. I argue. You just dismiss me. And why should I shut the fuck up?

 

mutant you don't know what consensus i have arrived at. i never told you to shut the fuck up, you must have telepathically seen my drafts before i made the final post hmmmm? i said you never shut up, which is pretty hypocritical of me sitting on over 3000 posts. this is why i find you to be noise: you pigeon hole everything into some kind of theist/atheist duality or whatever, and make the conversation adhere to your fantasy world. the same fantasy world in which your opinion on tripping holds so much weight that you throw it around without having tripped. that's like me telling you what to think about greece. i'm allowed to have an opinion but you would be justified to dismiss it readily (because i've never taken an interest in greece much less been).

[mutant]

re: fishstix

you might just be right on the psilo VS lsd point. My ideas are obviously largely formed from my former acid experience. Some time ago I was reading lots of reports on the matter, I ended up with the conclusion that [as always] people are different and found out some preferred acid and some preferred psilos, even though I had spotted the main differences and traits that each seemingly bares. I actually feel much better with the idea of taking a mushroom than acid, especially my own finds from a well know picking spot. I don't think I would ever take acid again since so many natural agents exist that my intuition says they're more trustworthy for my liking/ style / naturalist approach

************

ThunderIdeal, what was your arguement again?

My 'fantasy world' ? You are the ones who believe that visions caused by consumption of hallucinogens are real, not me!!!

If you have something personal with me open up an appropriate thread, if you dare. Till then don't throw dirt at what you obviously cannot understand or simply gets on your nerves. I have a huge interest and know my fucking shit in regard with psychs, so even though I haven't [yet] consumed psilos, I have every right to participate in the discussion.

You don't like my ideas? GOOD! They're not supposed to be liked by psychedelic believers and theists.

Let's see which one's fantasy world we wake up to tomorrow

Edited April 22, 2010 by mutant

[Chiral]

how on earth did mutants psychedelic to break a loop thread end up in 'ere...

Edited April 24, 2010 by Chiral

[GingaNinja]

Till then don't throw dirt at what you obviously cannot understand or simply gets on your nerves.

 

fair call but you seem to be doing exactly what you are telling others not to do

despite your claims for people to accept your views on psychs, you can not accept that others believe in something that you dont.

You step over the line of sharing your own thoughts and into the area of accussing others of stupidity simple because they dont agree with you.

Is that one of your habit you are trying to let go of?

[holymountain]

mutant we had these exact arguments around the same time last year....we are going around in circles again and i believe the point we left off last time was 'you haven't had mushrooms so maybe stop trying to tell everyone what their mushrooms trips are about....'

we are back at that point again except i'd like to add that LSD is nothing like mushrooms and that you comparing the two is incredibly frustering.... one of the things LSD is known for is exploring your mind. YOUR OWN MIND. it is a great psychoanalytical tool useful for working through your subsconscious....

one of the things mushrooms are known for is contact with entities and encounters with beings. it is not the same as LSD! totally fucking different!!!! for those that have actually pumped up their nuts enough to give it a shot this is pretty easy to swallow, understand and agree with. now we can all argue where the beings come from or what they really mean but we sure as hell can't if WE HAVEN'T FUCKING SEEN THEM!! seriously dude, why don't you just give it a shot and then report back to me? maybe then you wouldn't have problems with people dismissing your arguments.

hope you are finally happy, you made me blow my cool. i recommend you smoke another joint and forget about maybe just for once pushing yourself a tiny bit out of your comfort zone.

[mutant]

Chiral:

WHAT THE FUCK MUTANT.....

how on earth did mutants psychedelic to break a loop thread end up in 'ere...

because it's such/similar mushrooms friend's gonna take silly

holy

hope you are finally happy, you made me blow my cool. i recommend you smoke another joint and forget about maybe just for once pushing yourself a tiny bit out of your comfort zone.

 

sorry for that... I am getting a lot of tiny sliding out and in my confort zone, but it's not enough - it shows a lot. That's why I 'need' the psych=mushies for, it's far more difficult to do it myself, especially with that cannabis habit...

also I never said psilo & acid are the same, but they sure are similar.

Ninja

You step over the line of sharing your own thoughts and into the area of accussing others of stupidity simple because they dont agree with you.

Is that one of your habit you are trying to let go of?

huh, yeah this is actually a pretty big part of it, yeah, or better it's one of its manifestations. Thanks for the comment, you phrased it pretty appropriately.

I am good at understanding, I am bad at projecting stuff to others. I am good at speaking about a relatively neutral idea, or even promote the idea, I am bad at speaking to one about himself, bad at teaching...

I actually didn't accuse anyone for stupidity [or insanity for that matter] but I understand how it sounds and I apologise.

despite your claims for people to accept your views on psychs, you can not accept that others believe in something that you dont.

I do accept it, I am just overly egotistical in those philosophical approach discussions on psychs....

from another thread, quoting myself

I have been having this critical view of people who promote heroic dosing before I got into SAB , I know my ideas are not very much liked by everyone, but I deeply respect the conscious heroic doser and what he has to say, what fish[=idea] he is bringing to us ashore... [citing that awesome McKenna quote] and how he's dealing with it , how the idea can integrate with everyday life or some aspect of it.

Edited April 22, 2010 by mutant

[Whispering Leaves]

Till then don't throw dirt at what ... simply gets on your nerves.

Ginja, does that not strike you as an odd thing to say given how you carried on in the cost per cm for Tricho thread, towards me?

Nothing like hypocrisy to make you look a right clown ;)

[-YT-]

now now children... learn to play nice

@Mud i know theres a few crew who can compare the qualitative effects between azure,cyan & subs hopefully they will chime into this thread.

[GingaNinja]

Ginja, does that not strike you as an odd thing to say given how you carried on in the cost per cm for Tricho thread, towards me?

Nothing like hypocrisy to make you look a right clown ;)

 

ontopic thanks champ, this is about subs not trich