Doc won't prescribe xanax, in withdrawals - should I go to ER?

[gem]

Hi, hoping someone has some ideas/advice... Moved to the Gold Coast approx 3mths ago, had repeats for xanax so foolishly left finding a decent doctor until I had one week's supply left.

Recommended to see particular GP - quack. Refused to prescribe regular medication even after he was provided with my medical records from NQ, which included a care plan to gradually titrate my dosage of xanax (voluntary). Sought second opinion - quack. Over prescribing limits for xanax for that month allegedly. He referred me to a psychiatrist ($300/hr) - quack. Did not look at me during whole consultation, didn't look at any medical records; gave me 5 days supply of xanax and a prescription for Lexapro and Epilim. (Started on 1000mg/day - never had before, nasty.)

Rang previous GP in North Queensland - couldn't even speak directly to him but was told he would not prescribe unless I presented in person (1500kms away).

So... ideas, suggestions, advice on what to say to triage at ER? (very likely going in today)

Thanks for reading.

PS: Apologies for TMI - tend to waffle when stressed :/

[Torsten]

maybe go back to first quack while in withdrawals and tell him this is his fault and he better fix it. he has your file so should be taking care of you one way or the other. ie if he doesn't like the arrangement you have with your FNQ doc then he should come up with a new one. But he can't just let you hang.

ER will only give you a few days worth at best, so you will have the same problem then. might as well sort it now.

crappy situation - but maybe just the extra motivation you need to get off xanax ;)

[gem]

Thanks T. Not going back to first quack. Uh uh - no way. Starting to get a bit wary as to whether docs see it as seeking a second opinion or more likely (being the GC), doctor shopping.

Realise ER will only give me a few days supply but... fly up to NQ to see original doctor - he primarily (but other docs employed by the surgery) have been writing scripts for the last 7 years at 8mg/day. Now I can't even speak to him directly - the nurse fields those ''annoying'' calls.

Currently not under *anyone's* care: all three quacks didn't want to touch me with a ten foot pole.

I'd already been titrating the dose down to 7mg/day of my own volition for a few months now so I already had the motivation but thanks. x

(edit) Oh and just remembered - besides my own personal hatred of first quack, first doctor was WORST doctor on entire GC to be recommended to me: deals with drugs of dependance patients (yes I realise *I'm* dependant on xanax) so is already under scrutiny and basically won't prescribe even 7mg (let alone usual 8mg) - shouldn't drop 1mg without ensuring mood stabilised and support network in place before reducing benzos after 12 years. To quote first quack; ''I'm not prepared to sign my name on a script for that amount of xanax. I have a reputation to protect.''

Edited September 13, 2012 by gem

[DarkSpark]

Thanks T. Not going back to first quack. Uh uh - no way. Starting to get a bit wary as to whether docs see it as seeking a second opinion or more likely (being the GC), doctor shopping.

 

Yeah you will find it hard to get a doctor to look at you iwithout passing judgement on the coast. I had a doctor all but force me to take oxazepam when i wanted painkillers. I could give you his address he might be a little more willing to help.

[incognito]

Hope your okay, take care of yourself girl.

Pm sent

Edited September 13, 2012 by incognito

[Jox]

Hi gem, take care of yourself.

I also live on the goldy & wanted to warn you about the wait you my be in for at the ER & when you get seen you probably won't be happy with the outcome. They don't put a lot of time or priority into helping addicts.

Have you ever considered going cold turkey? Is that an option for you?

Good luck on your path to recovery.

[gem]

Yeah you will find it hard to get a doctor to look at you iwithout passing judgement on the coast. I had a doctor all but force me to take oxazepam when i wanted painkillers. I could give you his address he might be a little more willing to help.

 

I think it would be easier to find the proverbial needle in a haystack than a doctor on the GC that doesn't treat patients like junkies. I've got a PCC so they straight away think of me as a second-class citizen, let alone when I mention the xanax... then I'm a gutter junkie...

Is your previous doc on the GC DarkSpark?

Thanks

gem

[gem]

Hi gem, take care of yourself.

I also live on the goldy & wanted to warn you about the wait you my be in for at the ER & when you get seen you probably won't be happy with the outcome. They don't put a lot of time or priority into helping addicts.

Have you ever considered going cold turkey? Is that an option for you?

Good luck on your path to recovery.

 

Thanks Jox

ER is *definitely* the LAST place I want to go to. Cold turkey? Hmm... only really two days into withdrawals, they get waaay worse to the point where you just want to die to escape the torment. Oh and BF found benzo forum said acute withdrawal from abrupt cessation of benzos can potentionally lead to death... Nice reading for the morning hey?

Thanks so much for your advice and kind words.

gem

[C_T]

some alcohol will reduce symptoms short term

[El Presidente Hillbillios]

Dont know what to say, *hugs*

[Anodyne]

I would try to find a new doctor and be very clear that you are attempting to taper off these drugs, as you do not want to be on them, but have heard that it's physically dangerous to stop them suddenly. That doc won't have reported you for drug-seeking if you were referred AND he's already in trouble for over-prescribing, so don't worry about that.

But if that fails and you find yourself in trouble, please don't delay in getting to the hospital. It will suck, but those forums are right - benzo WDs can be dangerous. Take care, A.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Anodyne

[Thelema]

you could try titrating down with other GABA agents, like baclofen. 1,4 butanediol/GBL/GHB would certainly keep away the pain.

[C_T]

phenibut maybe even, since its a legal alternative. tho don't trade an addiction for another addiction, taper down and quit altogether.

[gem]

Thanks Thelema

Actually meant to take some GABA last night, brain off on a dozen tangents and forgot. 1,4B/GBL/GHB would be fantastic - shame hard to procure (or I just don't know the right people)...

As C_T suggested alcohol could be useful but I feel too sick for that. I did try some beers the other day to try to relax and definitely noticed the interaction with the Epilim tablets I just started.

Managed to make it through yesterday with Kava and lots of herbs. It sounds wanky but I'm amazed at how well I am doing being dropped from 8mg/day to ... well nothing but a few tablets I've hoarded (and epilim and self-medication). I arranged to gradually titrate my dosage (in conjunction with a mood stabiliser) with a GP in NQ before I moved. It's all done (a written plan) but docs on the Gold Coast treat people asking for xanax with contempt.

Don't want to jinx myself but I feel better today, def not 'fixed' but, for a change, I didn't wake up reaching for my show bag of meds.

Usually I would be sobbing in a fetal position in bed all day. It really helps that I have a really supportive partner who understands and is very intelligent (of course, fellow SAB member) He suggested the GABA, I never would have made the connection.

Sorry Thelema, waffling as usual, time to see if I can find some diazepam lying around and a smoke. Thank you for your suggestions

[gem]

phenibut maybe even, since its a legal alternative. tho don't trade an addiction for another addiction, taper down and quit altogether.

 

Thanks C_T BF actually suggested some phenibut last night but I knew I couldn't stomach the powder - not usually a problem but when you're feeling nauseous...

Re trading one addiction for another - yep, can see how that could happen. Looking on the net seems Klonopin would be a better anti-anxiety agent as it has a longer half life but pretty sure that is habit forming too I still need to obtain xanax though - can't go from 8mg to nothing. Once I'm 'back at base line' I can probably manage on 6-6.5mg/day of xanax in conjunction with the epilim (which I am a bit dodgy on) and start reducing my xanax. Main problem is actually finding a doctor who will actually listen and give a fart about their 'patient' (and give me a freaking prescription!).

Thanks for the advice C_T

[C_T]

my ex went from 8-10mg daily to zero, nearly lost her job as a doctor and was random drug tested for 12 months every week or two without fail... it can be done.

she did encounter some psychosis, so its important to have people you trust around you, to make sure your ok through this period, which is why tapering is much smarter, but stay positive, it's not impossible.

good vibes your way, stray strong. a few months from now it will seem like nothing.

[Torsten]

With your current circumstances [partner & location] it looks like a golden opportunity to go semi cold turkey! you can use kava, GABA and theanine to lower the psychosis potential and cravings, and a little corydalis extract to deal with any physical pain/discomfort and also to help with sleep.

Another friend recently came off benzos cold turkey by just using a HHH product called 'mellow yellow' and a little bit of alcohol for a few days. if you can't stomach booze then you can get good relief from a 40% metho [60% hot water] footbath. Enough alcohol will be absorbed to give you a steady but mild dose [don't drive as you can go over the limit].

[incognito]

.Couldn't that possibly replace a benzo addiction with an alcohol addiction? They are both rather nasty substances if abused. I'm guessing a heavy benzo craving would take a lot of grog to quell? Then what, Kratom to overcome the alcohol addiction? Swallow the horse to catch the dog to catch the cat...

Maybee there is an underlying message in that nursery rhyme ??

I dunno personally I'd find a quality quack who's up with benzo withdrawals and advise I wanna get off the shit. I guess a supportive environment would be beneficial exploring, coming to terms and treating the resins why u need benzos would be the hardest part.. I really hope and wish for you that there is a time that you will no longer need to take them on a daily basis. All the best lovely lady

Edited September 15, 2012 by incognito

[gem]

With your current circumstances [partner & location] it looks like a golden opportunity to go semi cold turkey! you can use kava, GABA and theanine to lower the psychosis potential and cravings, and a little corydalis extract to deal with any physical pain/discomfort and also to help with sleep.

Another friend recently came off benzos cold turkey by just using a HHH product called 'mellow yellow' and a little bit of alcohol for a few days. if you can't stomach booze then you can get good relief from a 40% metho [60% hot water] footbath. Enough alcohol will be absorbed to give you a steady but mild dose [don't drive as you can go over the limit].

 

Thanks T Ha, was that a play on words (golden opportunity)? Already taking GABA and kava (along with meds that *must* be contraindicated with the Epilim but... I still seem sane). The corydalis ran out a while ago

If I didn't have to get back up to NQ to deal with a couple of things, I'd perhaps try cold turkey. From 8mg/day it's pretty dangerous and utterly agonising to just stop (w'end so still no GP).

I dunno personally I'd find a quality quack who's up with benzo withdrawals and advise I wanna get off the shit. I guess a supportive environment would be beneficial exploring, coming to terms and treating the resins why u need benzos would be the hardest part.. I really hope and wish for you that there is a time that you will no longer need to take them on a daily basis. All the best lovely lady

 

incognito bless, you're lovely Unfortunately I've been unable to find a decent doctor on the Coast - I don't know if there are any out there... Have a couple of docs names (thanks guys) that I will try to get into tomorrow. Hmm yum, glass of kava for brekkie - luckily it's Kiln stuff so relatively ok to skull

I read some interesting information on the net the other day regarding long term use of xanax which would explain why I still take benzos (when I don't feel I need 8mg/day - tolerance over 12yrs (yet go into withdrawals if I don't have my regular dosage?!). Xanax was never intended for long term use and a study found that patients that took xanax for more than four months actually started developing anxiety symptoms *because* of the xanax... IDK, not explaining it very well, wish I had the link to the article

SO genuinely appreciative to everyone who has replied to this thread and/or sent me PMs. Thank you.

[Auxin]

Some folks here have found partial relief of withdrawal symptoms by smoking cured Heimia foliage. H. salicifolia and H. myrtifolia work equally well.

A friend of mine was in a similar situation, doctor decided on a whim to force her to go cold turkey (criminal misconduct, IMO). I stuck some Heimia in the mail for her. When it arrived at her house they were literally getting ready to take her to the emergency room at the hospital because of uncontrollable sobbing and shivering. Her dad trusts me and so he got her to smoke one of the pre-made Heimia rollies I included, he hoped it would make the ride to the hospital easier. It reduced the symptoms well enough that they decided not to go to the hospital at all (saving them several hundred dollars) and she held out another day and a half until she got to see a new doctor for a taper. Once on the taper Heimia was often the only way she could get sleep after each step to a lower dose.

It apparently works quite well for some people.

[Torsten]

Couldn't that possibly replace a benzo addiction with an alcohol addiction?

depends on your willpower. If you are using the alcohol just to gain the same escape as the benzos then absolutely. But if you are using the alcohol just to take off the worst of the side effects for a few days then not.

I'm guessing a heavy benzo craving would take a lot of grog to quell?

Depends on the individual. Some people do it in a matetr of days and never look back. Most will take a few weeks of hard work. others will spend years avoiding and procrastinating.

I dunno personally I'd find a quality quack who's up with benzo withdrawals and advise I wanna get off the shit.

Good luck finding one of those. The best they can do is patient controlled taper, which depends on the patient's compliance, which is pretty much useless in case of benzo addicts.

For quick withdrawal you need to go to certain clinics, which is a big undertaking - too daunting for most addicts.

Fact is that most benzo addicts stay benzo addicts until they ACTUALLY want to quit and then most of them do it very rapidly and with very little help.

So yes, if you can find a doc that can help with the withdrawal then that is the best option, but in most cases the lack thereof becomes just another excuse for not stopping.

[Sonny Jim]

lots of opinions when it comes to this topic but let me say this from my own personal experience

Using alcohol to deal with benzo withdrawal is hands down the worst drug decision I have ever made.

The alcohol seemed to not only prolong the withdrawal but it induced the most painful rebound anxiety in combination with the benzo withdrawal. I'd wake up sober after having a few bears to get some sleep and be so anxious it hurt terribly for about 10 minutes, every day for months on end. Thank god that's all years ago now but people aren't exaggerating when they say benzo withdrawal can last over a year in duration.

I'd recommend kicking that stuff anyway you can, even if you trade it in for some other better known less insane alternative you'd be winning IMHO

Edited September 16, 2012 by Sonny Jim

[Torsten]

Using alcohol to deal with benzo withdrawal is hands down the worst drug decision I have ever made.

The alcohol seemed to not only prolong the withdrawal but it induced the most painful rebound anxiety in combination with the benzo withdrawal. I'd wake up sober after having a few bears to get some sleep and be so anxious it hurt terribly for about 10 minutes, every day for months on end.

 

I get asked about this issue a lot, so I am always interested in different perspectives.

Can you explain why you think it was the alcohol that made it worse? Rebound anxiety is exactly what you'd expect from stopping benzos, so what makes you say the alcohol made it worse?

For most the alcohol is there exactly for the purpose you describe - to get to sleep.

Also, what quantities of alcohol are you talking about? A couple of drinks before bed or enough to get drunk? Getting drunk would add all sorts of complications and is certainly not advisable.

Also, I should have mentioned above that I was relaying other people's experiences. i know that Gem likes a drink or two , so it is not like I was recommending a new drug. If someone was alcohol free then using alcohol to come off benzos is probably not a good choice.

[Sonny Jim]

I had another look through this thread and I want to back up what torsten said about this being a good opportunity to give benzos the flick completely. I believe benzos are simply too toxic for daily use in human beings, we know they cause brain damage akin to heavy alcoholic brain damage and 7mg of xanax is quite a large dose. There are alternatives that are more effective and much safer than benzos, they might be a little harder to get but it's not at all impossible to find a doctor/psychiatrist who will treat you with medications that want destroy you on several fronts.

All the best with this by the way, I really feel for people going through benzo withdrawal and I want to remind you not to underestimate the mind screwing effect of these withdrawals. In fact, I hope you don't have to experience withdrawal and are able to work something more suitable out.

Sorry for being intentioanlly vague, I don't like to be but I don't want to pretent to be your doctor, I just suggest that you look beyond toxic gabanergic drugs for a xanax replacement.

[Sonny Jim]

Torsten

how much alcohol?

defintiely too much for me 1-2 bottles of wine, not only and always wine, could be bear, spirits or pure distilled alcohol

I am certain that alcohol has the effect of creating or worsening the bad anxiety I had on waking from an alcohol induced sleep because it's happened so many times and cessation of alcohol, before sleepy time fixed this completely. Well i was still in benxos witrhdrawal but the effect of the alcohol had been removed.

Don't get me wrong, a little bit might help a lot but there's the whole cross tolerance thing as well which are gonna make you drink more anyway.

edit: typos, clarity, you name it

Edited September 16, 2012 by Sonny Jim