Khat care (red vs white vs narrowleaf)

[oxydiser]

I currently have three strains of khat (red, white and narrowleaf), they are all sourced from SAB and they are all kept in identical conditions.

Same size pot, same soil (premium potting mix with a bit of CSS), same position (full sun from 10am-4pm), same watering regime (approx 3 times a week, letting the soil dry out between drinks).

The red and white strains are kicking ass and putting out new shoots all over the shop, while the narrowleafs (also have a 4cm seedling) are not. In fact, they are losing leaves at an alarming rate, they slowly turn brown from the tips and fall off.

WTF am I doing wrong here? I understand that this may be caused by overwatering, but I am struggling to find why this would be an explanation because all plants are treated identically. Your thoughts on my dilemma would be greatly appreciated.

[Darklight]

WTF am I doing wrong here? I understand that this may be caused by overwatering, but I am struggling to find why this would be an explanation because all plants are treated identically. Your thoughts on my dilemma would be greatly appreciated.

Personally I reckon the narrowleaf ones are more sensitive to overwatering. But then they don't let me play with whole plants often ;)

I have two narrowleaf strain plants. Sourced from the same person, a year apart in age, planted maybe 12-15 years ago. One is on very well drained soil and is 4.5m high. The other is on slightly less well drained soil, gets a bit more shade, and is struggling to make 2m- it's never been really healthy. Big height difference huh.

Others with more experience than I may have better ideas on this though

[Torsten]

as far as I am concerned the narrow leaf might as well be a different species, that's how different it is in cultivation parameters and in amny other ways.

keep it a bit drier, especially if it isn't really hot yet.

[mescalito]

I've found my red strain doesn't like to get her leaves wet in the summer and if she does they go brown and brittle.

Dunno if this helps?

[jasemateau]

i had the same problem with this planet, gradually all my leaves dried out (over winter)

and dropped off, now the main shoot is naked.

now i have plenty of baby shoots, and well now there staring to play the same bleeding game

so water 3 times a week, fert once a week (half strength)

should the soil be soil, or can one use a cacti mix to pot em in?

[Rev]

ill add the narrowleaf s far less frost hardy than the red

my red sat outside all winter and got severly frosted

killed back to ground level

but they reshot very well

wheras the narrwleaf was stone dead after the first frost

YMMV

[Leo^]

I have a few strain 4s that I planted direct into a paddock, no watering or care given, and are going very well with lots of new shoots. I planted some reds in a similar spot last year and they just died. Maybe the 4 likes to be just left alone to do its thing?

[Prophet]

I'm having the same problem with my reds, leaves going brown and dropping off and they look a bit sick. I think the red variety doesn't like humidity. No such problems with my whites and narrow leaf though which are doing very well.

[mescalito]

My reds are now out of direct sunlight and powering on so I reckon they prefer shade.

[planthelper]

they only look better in your shady aspect because they are less stressed out now.

catha is quit a thiersty plant.

red and and white hate underwatering and soggy conditions, they sometimes die because of this. the narroleaved is much hardier and more immune agains wrong cultural conditions.

i never had a single narrowleave die on me, even if i kept them in small pots for many years, but red and white ones under the same condition produced some losses at times.

if your red or white showes wilted leaves, just water more, but allways ensure good drainage.

allthough i once had a vienna white powering away in a pot which had a saucer underneath which kept it constantly wet. further more the plant had been repotted and because i ran out of pottingmix i had to use garden soil at the bottom, even so she was happy, till i removed the saucer.

this caused some damage to the roots, because they dried up. once this happens catha edulis needs a long time to re grow healthy roots.

[sobriquet]

I have a single original plant of the narrow leaf that's grown to about a metre over three years.

The stem hasn't thickened more than my small finger. It has a weeping disposition to it, with pendulous branches. Over the past summer several of these have passed through the soil and self ground layered themselves so that I have potentially four plants if I divide them up.

The growth has been mediocre given the excellent growing conditions I've provided.

This winter an unusual thing occurred. The thin branches together with leaves separated cleanly off the main growing stem and fell off en masse. The growing tip appears very healthy and does not show signs of disease or stress. The branches have literally shed off from the 'trunk' cleanly. I've taken some of these and am presently trying to propagate from them.

This only occurred to the main original trunk. The layered sides have remained fully clothed in leaves.

I've decided that I will repot and divide it closer to spring. I'm planning to use a native soil mix ie. low phosphorus blend with low phosphorus fertiliser afterwards. I've had some great success with this combination on many non-native plants.

Will take some photos and post up when the time comes.

[planthelper]

that falling off of branches and leaves is not unusual, catha like many other plants clean themselves of old, unwanted growth. if one nurtures her more this dropping of old growth is a bit less prominent, however it still will happen...

[Darklight]

I have a single original plant of the narrow leaf that's grown to about a metre over three years.

I have two, planted a year apart, both from the same supplier, in the same yard. One is 4m high, super healthy and gets cut back hard sometimes without flinching. The other is about 10m away, the soil is *slightly* different, and *maybe* it gets more shade over the last six years since the windbreak grew, but it's never gotten bigger than 2m in 12 years, is scabby, leaves are thin and branches drop off all the time. Same nutes, same stock, different result

My point- if you can get another, plant it somewhere else. You can waste a lot of time babying your sickly one, if its inherently sickly a second one might just be the trick

[sobriquet]

I have a single original plant of the narrow leaf that's grown to about a metre over three years.

I have two, planted a year apart, both from the same supplier, in the same yard. One is 4m high, super healthy and gets cut back hard sometimes without flinching. The other is about 10m away, the soil is *slightly* different, and *maybe* it gets more shade over the last six years since the windbreak grew, but it's never gotten bigger than 2m in 12 years, is scabby, leaves are thin and branches drop off all the time. Same nutes, same stock, different result

My point- if you can get another, plant it somewhere else. You can waste a lot of time babying your sickly one, if its inherently sickly a second one might just be the trick

Hi Darklight. The plant is in a 500mm pot with a standard potting mix. So the rate of growth is not stellar but as I've moved to three places in the past 6 years I haven't planted anything in the open ground yet. I'm waiting till I get a more permanent home before doing that.

But I know exactly what you mean. About a decade ago I bought a small Chinese elm tree for training into bonsai. I used the prunings from the first shaping as cuttings and had over twenty of these after a year. I planted one of those cuttings in the ground and after 5 years it was almost 10 metres in height! The bonsai had put on only 10-20cm in the same time

What I plan to do is use native low phosphorus soil and check results. I might try the other ones in other mixes to see which one is best. The leaves/branches that dropped were the ones from the first season of growth in 2003.

I've chewed the leaves probably 10 times in those 3 years. I've always heard that the tender leaves are the best to chew but I find these simply dissolve into a powdery nothing that disappears quickly. I like the flavour of the older tougher leaves but so far I've only had moderate stimulation on two occasions.

The idea to use low phosphorus soil came when I developed an interest in natives and grew a Podocarpus elatus ("plum pine" a well known bush tucker and an ancient plant from the time of dinosaurs) last year. Since then I've repotted many of my other trees into Searle's native plant mix (low phosphorus) and have had some really good results. I'm hoping the khat will respond well too.

[darkhorse]

I've had the same problem with mine, the broadleaf variety is outside in the cold, and last two weeks wet, and is growing constantly if not better then in their trad. growing season. But the narrowleaf just won't get better. so far, what I've tried is warmth, more sun, less sun, deprivation of water till moderate wilting and nothing seems to work, so far! Next I'm trying repotting and a slow release fertiliser.

Whats happening with mine is its yellowing along the spine of the leaf and then it drys out and falls off, and now the stems of the main branch are also drying out and falling off. This first started with reddening of the stems and edges of leaves, once I brought them inside it looked like improving and even turned green again, now its slightly yellowing.

I'll get back to you on how the repotting goes.

[Andrew]

I dont seem to have any trouble with this plant

at all and I live a couple of hours south of sydney.

I tend not to look after them too much,but they get regular water

and I should add they are in big pots.To take cuttings I just shove them

in some tubestock pots with potting mix(hortico)and leave them,6 to 12 months

later they,re ready.

A strange thing is happening at the moment,2 rooted cuttings,1 narrow(200mm)

,1 red(300mm)are both flowering.Havent had any flowers on any of them till

now.Would be nice to cross the narrow with the red.Is that possible P.H.?

[planthelper]

my red one is flowering the first time, so i will try the redxnarrowleaved in a short time, please andrew go for it. it's straight forward, chances are the red collor is recessive.

try to pollinate as many flowers as possible, any not x pollinated flowers get removed by cutting of the whole branches. i will try red and narrowleaved as mother. if there are too many flowers which are not foreign pollinated (a big bush) than put a paperbag over the pollinated flowers as such to avoid selfpollination.. and mark the x'ed flowers, i use the lil metal thingies which are used to seal the bread form the bakery.

location is very important, however sometimes strugglers kick in after a few years.

some of my narrowleaved are about 5m tall after 7 years in the ground.

i have seen footage from jemen and ther red's are big enough to climb in!

[sobriquet]

my red one is flowering the first time, so i will try the redxnarrowleaved in a short time, please andrew go for it. it's straight forward, chances are the red collor is recessive.

try to pollinate as many flowers as possible, any not x pollinated flowers get removed by cutting of the whole branches. i will try red and narrowleaved as mother. if there are too many flowers which are not foreign pollinated (a big bush) than put a paperbag over the pollinated flowers as such to avoid selfpollination.. and mark the x'ed flowers, i use the lil metal thingies which are used to seal the bread form the bakery.

location is very important, however sometimes strugglers kick in after a few years.

some of my narrowleaved are about 5m tall after 7 years in the ground.

i have seen footage from jemen and ther red's are big enough to climb in!

I'm getting an occasionally very red leaf on my narrowleaf. They occur on one branch only. I'm assuming that there may be a possibility of creating a cultivar from this.

I'm planning to air layer it and see whether it will be a continued trait in the new plant. I'd love this to be true as I've always dreamed of creating a new cultivar. I'll post some pictures of it on the weekend.

[Ed Dunkel]

Strange!!!

My longleaf is growing exceptionally well, flowering this winter!!!

The red leaf looks great as well, loads of leaves (I should check for flowers). Only problem with that the red leaf is sudden seedling death (SSD) right next to healthy seedlings??? And the leaves seem to crumble and dry on the outside, during the summer.

On the other hand, the white khat seems to be struggling. During the summer and now also the winter. I'm thinking of planting it out.

The red and longleaf khat are in plastic pots and the redleaf in a terracotta. I also have the red and longleaf in the ground and both seem to be fine.

[sobriquet]

Here is one of the red leaves on my narrowleaf.

It may be a common phenomenon. I wouldn't know because its the first time mine is doing this.

The white stuff is lime sulphur sprayed a few days before. I don't chew these leaves but I'll try some in the summer again.

I'm probably going to air layer this branch if it continues to show this trait.

[planthelper]

this turing red of narrowleaved leaves is compareable with the red automleaves turn to, it has nothing to do with a genetic difference of that branch or so.

the palnt remove various substances mout of those leaves so it can reuse them, as a result the leaf turns red. if you pamper catha very well than this is far less prominet, as the plant has an abundance of "plant goodies" to play with and depends less on recycling.

no 4 does though when very happy display pink stems and even margins if i remeber correctly.

edit: your chances of probagating this branche are very slim, use stems which display alternate leaf formantation for propagation and not biniate leaf formantation.

Edited August 5, 2006 by planthelper

[sobriquet]

this turing red of narrowleaved leaves is compareable with the red automleaves turn to, it has nothing to do with a genetic difference of that branch or so.

the palnt remove various substances mout of those leaves so it can reuse them, as a result the leaf turns red. if you pamper catha very well than this is far less prominet, as the plant has an abundance of "plant goodies" to play with and depends less on recycling.

no 4 does though when very happy display pink stems and even margins if i remeber correctly.

edit: your chances of probagating this branche are very slim, use stems which display alternate leaf formantation for propagation and not biniate leaf formantation.

Yes some other branches have red margins and tips.

Thanks for the info on the pigmentation change. It makes sense. I'll watch out for other anomalies. I'm having alot of fun with these. I can't wait till your narrow/red cross becomes available. That looks very nice indeed.

Cheers.

[planthelper]

ok, here some info on how to x pollinate catha edulis.

attemting to cross red with narrowleaved....

narrowleaved flowers around 1 to 2 weeks earlier than the red in my area, so i had to wait for the red to open it's flowers.

please take in consideration that what i'm going to say, i concluded from my observations and work in this field, i never had any education in this area..

1, remove all opend flowers. if it's a big bush remove just the flowers of the branches you will work with. if you work a big bush you have to put a paper bag over the worked area so to avoid selfpollinating.

2, when a catha edulis flower opens the anthers containing the pollen are all located close to the centre (there wher the calyx is located) of the flower and over the next few days the will bend more outwards.

3, the pollen sacks of this newly opend flower are not shedding pollen yet.

4, take the tweezers and remove all anthers of a few just opend flowers.

5, use a mister and spray water over the flowers, so as to remove any (stray) pollen which could have fallen there from other flowers.

6, catha flowers first shed pollen and after that the stigma becomes reseptible.

meaning we will wait till all the flowers with removed pollensacks, get ready to be able to conceive (the stigma has suddenly a wet appereance and displays tiny elongations in a triangular fashion.

7, take pollen from the narrowleaved and aply to the wet stigma.

make sure to use proper pollen, not too early one, or to late, use the one anthers which shed heaps of powder just on the slighest touch.

8, remove all other buds, once the have swelled up to a size which tells you that they might open soon, so to avoid any chance of self pollination.

9, once the ovaries start to swell, there is certainly no need anymore to avoid selfpollinating and in case you used a paperbag or similar means, those can come off now.

Edited August 20, 2006 by planthelper

[Rev]

note: my narroleaf rehot

and its red!

red narrow leaf that is

i think its the cold (99%)

1% chance its a red sport

we'll see.

[SaBReT00tH]

does anyone know if Narrowleaf Khat self seeds after flowering??