Is suicide a good idea?

[Dubius]

Is suicide a good idea?

[Dubius]

NO this is not a cry for help or attention or anything remotely related to the emotional aspect of threating to kill oneself!

[planthelper]

mate, pease realize that alcohol is a depressant.

you believe your excellent work record gives you the right to reward yourself with alcohol....

no way jose, rather be on the dole but don't drink. alcohol is a hallucigenic which has nothing to offer, alcohol sucks and nothing else.

it can contain a lot of iron which is good and in small doses is benefical to your health, but that's it. alcohol is trivial alcohol is the jobo of drugs. alco killed many of my friends.

suicide can represent a perfect death,

but most people if given the chance would like to live on.

you are suicidal because you drink too much, nothing more to say.

[smogs]

suicide is never a good idea and will never work out the way you want it to no matter what...

its a devastating thing to put your friends and family through as well as yourself.

its very normal to have thoughts of suicide but i recomend if you are feeling very suicidal to ring a friend and get them to come over and just spend time with u watching tv or wotever... go to a hospital waiting room... just to sit there until it passes (or another public place with lots of people)

or call the lifeline on 131 114 which is a very good service.

also your local hospital will have an emergency mental health team, just ring your hospital and ask for it.

if you cant do any of the above... ring and ambo and they will take u to the hospital to see a mental health worker... this is a good option as they HAVE to stay with you at all times until you see a doctor... which is a good thing!

Edit: no matter how bad it seems there are always people that care, and nothing is so bad it cant be fixed... sure sometimes it takes a while and alot of hard work... but it can be done.

[ 07. May 2005, 16:33: Message edited by: smogs ]

[planthelper]

smogs is right, ou have to talk about it, don't bottle it up and put on a false smile which you use when you are at work.

let me project onto you dubious,

you are a very special person, like very often people with thoughts like you are the ones that have a lot to offer to other people.

yep, call lifline or mensline and believe us alcohol makes it worse, it numbs your pain ok, but it numbs aswell that joyfull side of you which want's to live.

let me run the risk to sa something that could be wrong but, proly is right:

you experienced trauma and numbing it with alco is your way of dealing with it, but ike this the trauma and the people or events which caused this are the winners and the will continue to steal your life.

just make the decision not to let thoe events win anymore.

believe me your pain, dispear and weakness are only super strengh and zest for life in camoflage.

most people like you once working on there issues, become super role models for the rest of us.

[ 07. May 2005, 20:28: Message edited by: planthelper ]

[caludia]

i have been affected by suicide, similar in nature to the recent rene rivkin suicide actually.

the precondition of suicide is that the pain of life is unbearable and the sufferer sees no reasonable hope for the pain to end. Suicide isn't rational if the pain is bearable, because things might change.

if the pain is unbearable, i think there are a few things to consider -

- looking at things soberly, is there really no hope for improvement?

- is it possible that by enduring the pain, and continuing an otherwise miserable existence, you are nonetheless bringing happiness or respite from pain to others? Perhaps it is worth staying alive to help others, either by making ppl happy that you are alive (if if you're not happy!) or by consdering the pain your suicide might inflict on those who love you.

if you endure because of your love for others, then i believe you are the closest thing in the world to a God... you would embody a buddha-like compassion. But not everyone has this capacity, like Rene said - "you and i are not superheroes"

these considerations are purely pragmatic. personally i think it is not likely that there is an afterlife where you retain your current identity. If you are a pantheist like me, then going back into the soil and then arising again in another form is just part of the holy cycle. As Carl Sagan (pantheist par excellence) said, "we are all star stuff".

this is philosophy so your opinion may be different to mine.

suicide is an intimate topic and in my opinion, like drugs, involves drawing a boundary around yourself (like the guy quotes in Pihkal) - my body is an inviolate border within which i reign supreme.

again i think 2 things are important -

1. how can you be sure things won't improve?

2. what effect would your suicide have on those left behind?

and again... to some extent it depends on your "belief system". some christians, jews and muslims, and others (but especially the middle eastern monotheists) believe suicide is an eternal crime. If u subscribe to any of these beliefs then you have another consideration to weigh.

[gerbil]

Tis hard to discuss topics like this, i'll be brief.

I think suicide does have it's place and in some situations seems to be the only option, at least in that persons world. BUT things can be worked through and life quality restored to a level that the person finds comforting.

I get quite upset when it's said that people who suicide are weak and pathetic, IME this is so far from the truth. More than likely it'll be a reaction from losing a close loved one, but I still disagree very strongly about that statement that seems to be thrown around alot.

Bit of advice I find helpfull, but of course it greatly depends on mental health and a vast number of other factors...not to mention appropriate country...tryptamines, DMT or psilocybin. Purely hypothetical, and pretty gut wrenching work, but things can be sorted. This along with strong lifestyle changes. I mean, eat right, exercise, sleep well, get into good sleep patterns, keep active at something you are passionate about, if you like plants buy a big greenhouse and collect plants until it's jammed, then buy another greenhouse!

I'm probably a bit bias to this, though get rid of alcohol, especially if wanting life/mentality change through plant medicine. Everyone is different, and can work well with different substances, I could never get anything beneficial out of alcohol, doesn't mean you can't though, still i'd try and make distance from it.

[Endrogen]

i'll be brief aswell

"it's never too late, it's only too hard"

[apothecary]

You should always do what you want.

Nothing else matters.

I know how giving up feels, but then again I've never felt that I want to end my life.

[caludia]

apothecary:

You should always do what you want.

Nothing else matters.

I know how giving up feels, but then again I've never felt that I want to end my life.

also sprach zarathustra

[Amulte]

Death is not the end... killing ones self is pointless, unless you have one bullet, a gun, and 30 savage aliens after you then maybe.

but death is not the end. life goes on.

[Rev]

Dubius:

Is suicide a good idea?

yeah if u are an arsehole without likelihood of rehabilitation

and u know that you are

its certainly a terminal idea

still there are worse things than being able to choose how to die

think merits of euthanasia, horrors of 'fates worse than death'

etc..

but really if u are phsyically healthy or at least salvagable then there is always hope for a better life

but doing that sometimes means social suicide

burnin your bridges so to speak and moving on to elsewhere in the world

better to run away than kill yourself

in my teens i attempted both and so in hindsight i see a lot more value in the success of social suicide.

[ 09. May 2005, 16:21: Message edited by: Rev ]

[Dubius]

What is always dark but made by light?

[strangebrew]

melanoma?

[Thelema]

suicide is ALWAYS a good idea for people you do not love.

5HT-2a receptors are blamed for suicidality. Which, conveniently, are the subreceptor type that psilocybin bonds most ferociously to (no other known substance that binds more preferentially)

So if you want to confront this (presuming that yor problem is not abstract and hypothetical) then i suggest psilocybin as a medicine. But remember this could go either 2 ways, you kill yourself, or you live afresh. Either way the issue should be resolved after the medicine.

[dracos6]

didn't really much of the responses as i aint really all here :D but some of what i did read i disagree with, someone said suicide was related to certain things. i was suicidal from a very young age (7 or so) with no apparent reasons (even looking back now) up until around the age of eighteen until i did %X# one day (for the first time, and at about max "safe" dosage). i awoke the next day with a very different outlook on life, a damn lot of questions answered (many of which i already knew the answers to but had not processed/accepted them) my suicidal tendencies, depression, lack of self esteem/confidence etc. all gone. although they were not really gone, because i never really had them - IMO these were things that growing up/society had programmed me with and i effectivley erased it all and allowed myself to start from scratch.

BTW - this day that i woke up i stopped taking my SSRI's (which i had been taking for 3 years+ and other anti-depressants for 6-7 years) cold turkey - not a single one after that day.

been about 5 years since and now regard the first three quarters of this visit to be a refresher course, remindind me of my last visit here.

IMHO - this hunk of meat i call a body could VERY easily be decomposing at an extremely accelerated (more than it is :D )rate right now

to put it quite simply : suicide is not a good idea, think about it, what kind of hell are you going to inflict of the unenlightened people close to you still left on this plane? (how do i make question mark bigger) and apart from that, from what i believe its a lot longer journey with a lot less if you take that path - and i sincereley hope you dont

good luck mate

BTW i do not recommend or suggest you try to replicate in full or any part what worked for me as everything* is different

hey, drop us a PM

[Salviador]

Haha, yes, meatsuits are fun.

I figure, you have a meatsuit with all these yummy receptors on them just waiting to be stimulated. If i were truly suicidal, i would take out as bigger loan as possible and spend the rest of my days snorting coke of hookers tits...

My point is, theres always something out there, something is better than nothing. Even if you believe theres something out there after this, well, youve got a long long time to experience it. The world is your playground and anything after birth is a bonus

[caludia]

Salviador:

theres always something out there, something is better than nothing.

i have to respectfully disagree with this

if "something" is horror, than nothing is better than something.

[ramon]

I figure that if I was close to attempting suicide, the best thing I could do was to have a small ceremony where I symbolically ended my life and then I would devote it to charity from then on.

Ideally a charity where you where taken overseas into a foreign enviroment.

[Torsten]

Suicide is a great idea if you are terminally ill and don't want to suffer in the inhumane medical system. At all other times (and arguably even in the case of terminal illness) it is the easy way out. I know I'll get flamed for this, but I've been there and I've seen others there and at THAT moment the decision to end ones life is easier than to face the future. The decision might be a hard one, but that doesn't make the underlying reason any less escapist. Most suicidal individuals will only be so for a short time, so in comparison to the rest of their lives it is really an insignificantly short period to have to battle through. Things get a little more complex for people who are suicidal for decades with no end in sight, but these cases are rare.

Suicide is a short sighted waste. MOst suicidal tendencies last for a few years at the most. Short phases like puberty, early workforce, first relationships, the mourning of losing a partner, bankruptcy, etc. Most of these periods and events don't last much more than 1 to 5 years and do not spell the end of your life even if it looks like it at the time.

Suicide is also ultimately egotistical. Taking psychedelics teaches you that you are part of something. It usually instills a sense of responsibility to your family and close community. After all they have put in a lot of effort to get you to where you are and have been. Suicide (like addiction) shows a total disrespect and lack of gratitude to these people.

[mr toodly]

But why is gratitude due? Certainly one does not choose to come into existence. It is a condition foisted upon us. This is not agreeable with every constitution.

[mr toodly]

And it seems that the use of psychedelics.and drugs in individual cases is a fine way to demarcate those particularly intolerant of their conditions.

[apothecary]

Or maybe you're a condition foisted upon existence, you egotistical fucker! :D

[mr toodly]

Recently, some southern xtian boys were carried out to sea on a demasted sailboat. One was quoted in The Times as saying, "Reality, like, hits you in the face"

Which, I think, emotionally hits the crux of what I am trying to express, even if it is really poorly worded. Sensation is akin to the imposition of a cold weight. And some people just can't tolerate it.

Now, it is not so much the ceaseless striving, the means to means without ends in sight, but a deep and genuine dislike of the actions themselves. It's not the act of throwing one's arms up at utter futility. Rather, it is that the actions are intrinsically painful, essentially undesirable, completely incompatible with the subject in question. It's the stark realization that one is a deformity, some kind of deviant, whose cogs do not and will not interlock with other gears.

[caludia]

r. Jackson:

It's the stark realization that one is a deformity, some kind of deviant, whose cogs do not and will not interlock with other gears.

Well put...ever read "The Nausea" by Sartre?

i have felt like the "hero" of that; and i am told, by reliable sources, that SOME people feel like that constantly.

For those people, whose sense of horror in every small thing is something most people simply can't IMAGINE let alone FEEL... for those people, i understand suicide.