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fyzygy

TGA approves psilocybin and MDMA for treating depression, PTSD

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In all likelihood, this will not be cheap either, particularly as psilocybin and MDMA are not on the PBS and are unlikely to be covered by any form of health insurance. Private psychiatric services are not well-funded by Medicare, and can cost up to $600 per hour. 

 

Surprise!!! Seems a bit steep to gain access to something that literally grows out of the ground, and that human kind has been safely engaged with for thousands of years... Psilocybin is also non-toxic, and I have to say that lumping it in with MDMA for me is a bit of an issue. It's bit like saying cannabis is like meth, for an extreme example. MDMA + dodgy ticker = :unsure:

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I think psychiatrists are medically qualified, for what it's worth (not much to me -- doctors do more harm than good, in my experience). 

Possibly the substances would have to be taken in a clinical setting? Degrading conditions, from what I've seen. 

I think Andrew Robb can afford this. And anyone in the upper echelons of MMA. 

I can't even afford the GP visit, to get the mental health plan, to qualify for my 10 free counselling sessions. I last paid $140 for a GP (Telehealth) appointment, got a referral to some top psychiatrist ... who never called me back. And that was the end of my association with mainstream medicine.

 

Let me guess ... it'll still be criminal to go mushroom-picking, worse than dealing heroin. 

Edited by fyzygy
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2 hours ago, fyzygy said:

 

Let me guess ... it'll still be criminal to go mushroom-picking, worse than dealing heroin. 

 

...Surprise!!! Oh, you saw it coming...

 

So just to clarify, only the rich can access it, from people who have no experience with them (other than the expensive training they receive of course) who will charge like wounded bulls for it. But you can't pick it wild and free, because who makes any money from that bro? :blink: Oh, and big pharma can 'grow' it, of course, but no-one else. Dangerous shit to be fair.

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Tania de Jong AMLL.B (Hons), GradDipMus -

, G.Rinehart............

the entrepreneurs .....its all so simple If my husband was an ex banker and i was a mining magnate mistress living large off daddy this is a cash cow mutha

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if you think these psychedelic capitalists have your best interests at stake, I have a port in Darwin to sell you

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So ... Swinburne announces a $5M study of treatment-resistant depression and potential therapeutic effects of psilocybin. To be undertaken in 2023. 

 

Within a few weeks of this announcement, the TGA jumps the gun, leapfrogging over just about every other nation, to announce approval of the psychiatric use of psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression, etc. 

 

I wonder how the researchers and $5M stakeholders in the Swinburne study feel about that. And what implications the TGA decision could have for that particular research program. 

 

The fact that the TGA didn't bother waiting on the results of the Swinburne study, signals (potential) political influence on the approval process. Why the sudden urgency? Maybe we need to ask around the big end of town. Someone with even deeper pockets than the Swinburne backers -- surely? -- must've pulled some strings. 

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It is interesting how knowledge of this decision has spread in the community.

I spoke to the following:

 

A young GP, who is very up-to-date and open to medical cannabis and supportive of psychedelics as a treatment option. A week after the announcement of the decision he was unaware of the TGA decision. In his words, the "TGA will not tell GPs about this because a GP will NOT be able to prescribe the medication". I think this will seriously restrict medication adoption. If GPs do not know about it as an option then how can patients be made aware of psychedelics as an option - so they can refer to a suitable psychiatrist?

 

A youngish secondary teacher knew of the announcement but did not understand any of the details.

 

A 15-year-old - who was well aware of the announcement and even had an opinion on the merits of psilocybin vs MDMA for the treatment of psychiatric conditions.

 

I honestly feel that psychedelics will go the same way as medical cannabis. When medical cannabis was made available, it was extremely expensive and highly restricted, and very hidden. Now 8 years later it is slowly getting cheaper and more accepted - still, stupid people abound, GPs refuse to prescribe it, and the police hate it. These people continue to fight against its legalization and continue to demonize these medical treatments.

 

Moving forward the fight is about the total decriminalization, legalization, and rescheduling of all these substances.

 

Be grateful for small steps.

 


 

Edited by Ishmael Fleishman

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my gp doesn't even know extasy and mdma are the same....

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I spoke to a crisis worker who works mostly in the hospital settings - she had heard about the announcement and said that people will be pulling down their pants in public and raping people on the street now that medical psychedelics have been made legal. - She is a lunatic nut job herself but that is another story.

 

What absolute fucking bullshit - but it just goes to show how much stupidity and misinformation there exists about medically sanctioned psychedelic-assisted therapy.

 

Just imagine - A patient who seeks help and enquires about psychedelic-assisted therapy only to be told that this treatment will turn them into a pedophile rapist waving their dick around in public.

 

This is going to be an uphill battle. That could very quickly come to an end if we get another Johnny Howard in power. Then I am reading these reports about Ketamine and its unregulated off-label growth in the US. Just waiting for the backslash.

 

 

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A summary is that this is a non-starter the TGA's approval is essentially worthless at this point.

 

  • This decision has come from lobbying - more negative ideas are insinuated about behind the scene dealings
  • That this decision breaks the process for approval - approval follows research & consultation NOT approval follows lobbying
  • There are zero trained psychiatrists currently available in Australia
  • There are no certified training programs to train them
  • The panel all agreed that the psychiatrist to be effective must have had several psychedelic experiences before they dose others. However, to do so the psychiatrist would need to access psychedelics illegally - they would have to break the law to get effective training in psychedelic-assisted therapy.
  • The projected cost is $20,000 per session WTF
  • Each session will need to go before an ethics committee and be part of a research program - therefore if your condition is not part of the current research program you will NOT have access
  • The patient will need to have used and failed every conventional treatment before they will be able to apply for treatment
  • The announcement has seen a growth in underground sitters who are increasing prices
  • ALL psychedelics remain illegal and anyone who is not an authorized prescriber will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law
  • This announcement might kill further researchers as researchers will have little incentive now
  • Vested commercial interests will arise from this announcement and they will actively lobby to resist the legalization
  • Ibogaine is schedule 4 in Australia - interesting !!!! It could be used as an alternative psychedelic with fewer restrictions

 

Best quotes "psychiatry has its beginning in shamanism" & "the war on drugs is going strong it is just now more profitable" & "Carefully designed to help as few people as possible"

 

 

Edited by Ishmael Fleishman
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My sceptical mind is screaming "Surprise, surprise motherfuckers!!" :BANGHEAD2:

 

Honestly though, did anyone really  think this wouldn't happen, especially given the state of medical cannabis in Australia??? :huh:

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The more freely available the medicine is, the less viable their monopolistic business model will be. Legalisation would be the end of it, or would at least put an end to extortionate price-gouging. If only there were another aggressive, well-heeled lobby group like MMA ... but a lot more democratic.

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This is a Coup d'état masterfully executed by and for the 1%.

 

Edited by Ishmael Fleishman

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I am a bit on the fence about how this has all come about so quick with a full 180 from the tga.

 

On the one hand I think mdma and psilocybin are clearly effective treatments for some conditions, aside from the research being clear on this I have seen first hand instances of someone near instantly snapping out of life long religious indoctrination and instances of people addressing childhood abuse they had never spoke about while effected by these.  If I have seen these effects in an uncontrolled environment I have no doubt you could use this effectivly in a controlled situation to treat ptsd and other similar conditions where current treatment has failed.

 

But on the other hand I think this "mind medicine" group or whatever they're called that has done most of the lobbying and pushing on this is suss as fuck, any time I have heard them speak to journalists or such their responses to questions are like that of politicians, and i really wonder if they are more concerned about gaining some position where they finacially benifit from distribution than with actually helping people. That and the way this is being set up where this will end up being way above the realistic financial abilities of most people seems to make this almost pointless and designed to fail.

 

I think a far better approach for these and things like weed as a medical tool are just to decriminalise and remove the absurd scheduling first and then address them being used in a medical sense.

 

It shouldn't be necessary to do it that way but the whole war on drugs thing has just made it all so absurd as it is now.

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Here a much better story - Changing Minds

 

The remarkable story of a woman taking part in Australia's first psychedelic-assisted therapy trial. For Lindy Bok, it's a profound and deeply emotional experience as the treatment helps her confront anxiety around death.

 

https://iview.abc.net.au/video/NC2302Q013S00
 

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https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/11/a-raft-of-unanswered-questions-remain-as-australias-first-psychedelic-therapy-clinic-opens

You've no idea how fucking furious I am at Mind Medicine Australia, the TGA, et al. In a SMH article today, the doctors are gloating that they've got the pure MDMA, the implication being, they're fine with ravers dying from impure ecstasy - "we've got the pure stuff, and we're not sharing" - there has to be some kind of organised revolt against the monopolisation of psychedelic experience. MMA has even roped in Gabor Mate as one of its course instructors, wallowing as they are in $15M of taxpayers' money, and laughing all the way to the bank. Absolutely fucking obscene. 

Edited by fyzygy

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