legal update

[Thelema]

OK, first of all, I cant help but notice that the vibe of SAB has started to relax a bit, which is good, but also people are starting to talk quite openly about illicit drug use, which is bad. I myself am to blame as well, eg. my 6 months of ayahuasca post and stuff like that. It would be a shame to see this site closed down for such infractions.

On a related point, please be aware of the new federal anti-corruption legislature which came into effect on jan 01, 2004, which greatly heightens the power of investigating agencies to surveil and monitor groups such as bikies, internet forums and the like, in a covert way. Most disturbing is that now these people can entrap you and prosecute. So please be aware of newcomers asking you for illicit trades.

People in WA might find this link of some interest. It is for the new cannabis bill, the date of proclamation for which has not yet been set, but I heard that it was March 1st somewhere..

http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/parliament...8256CEF000C42D4

[Auxin]

So I'm not the only one who noticed that, hmmm?

Lately I've been shocked by the upsurge in gnome reports and the like- I always loved this place above all others because of how clean it generally is (and free of mulga rants) I come here to talk about the legal stuff. Can we keep it clean people? Please?

Torsten, what are your thoughts?

[gomaos]

I agree with this.

It's not really about "being clean", but about the survival of the forums.

I would edit any post I made which could be seen as "on the border".

[Chemical Shaman]

I think the answers here are far more simple than anyone has bothered to think about. Fact is now that Darklight has found herself a full time glory hole her panties are down more often then the servers that host shaman-australis HAHAHAHAHAHAARRRRRAAHAHAHAAHHHAAAA

SO WHILE DARKLIGHTS AWAY CS WILL PLAY COKE BOOBS BUMS KNICKERS HEROIN I JAY WALKED LAST NIGHT AND LOVED IT HARHARHARHAR

On a side note does anyone know where I can purchase some reasonably priced crack cocaine or some good heroin, I needed to get some for the kids down the street before I mash their brains with a cinder block.

Oh I mean i was just gonna give them the drugs, it was my gnome that was gonna do the brain mashing

my gnome is a crazzzzy motherfucker

[Chemical Shaman]

Thanks [this didn't need to be here- Gotcha! CS ) I have tested it out and it is really really good quality. You mentioned in your private message that you have a home laboratory set up that is capable of mass producing this and many other drugs. If this is the case then I would like to get a price on purchasing several kilos's of crack cocaine. Please reply to this thread, don't bother with private messaging or encrypted email, just use some clever analogy about some sort of gnome and nobody will ever be the wiser. It's rock solid trust me.

Here this can be your gnome

see how he is so fucked on crack cocaine!! he can't even get off the couch, trust me this gnome thing is the best idea ever!! once again thankyou for the crack cocaine, I gave some to my next door neighbours cat and baby and they loved it

[ 20. January 2004, 14:32: Message edited by: Darklight ]

[waterdragon]

Thelema:

On a related point, please be aware of the new federal anti-corruption legislature which came into effect on jan 01, 2004, which greatly heightens the power of investigating agencies to surveil and monitor groups such as bikies, internet forums and the like, in a covert way. Most disturbing is that now these people can entrap you and prosecute. So please be aware of newcomers asking you for illicit trades.

whilst i see and understand these warnings i feel it suitable to counter with something dipaunka sent me, it appears thus:

http://www.crixa.com/muse/unionsong/u177.html

[waterdragon]

lol, chem i think you're singlehandedly increasing our 'guest' count.

[Darklight]

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thelema:

---

Thanks for that Thel, Auxin & youse all. I def appreciate the support on this, cos occasionally I get tired of being the bad lady with the big stick repeatedly hassling ppl over what seems to many like trivia.

Point being, while I'm sure none of you are up to anything illegal or naughty, IMO the illegal posts combine over time to create a sense of laxness, lack of responsibility to each other and an inyerface renegade attitude which just feeds the monster. Many individuals here may be comfortable with that- but that's not why this forum is here, and we do risk losing several valuable and long term members when the tone starts lowering

be aware of newcomers asking you for illicit trades.

Be aware of anyone who asks you for illicit trades. Dodgy and risky as well as illegal- why would a friend try to put you in a position where you were at risk?

[ramon]

I was under the impression that reporting on the gnome activity was acceptable.

If this is not the case can we have something saying so as I will have to edit some recent posts I have made.

[Darklight]

Sorry, I'm still a bit astray brain wise ( bad moderator... bad moderator ). Thirdhand reports and other enquiries on the behalf of FOAFS are totally acceptable Ramon, and are in fact desirable.

What has been disturbing of late is the amount of apparrant naughty activity stemming directly from forum members, which simply can't be the case

[mescalito]

I thought this was a fictional site discussing plant use in childrens' stories?

BTW CS,the Crack's in the mail!

[ 20. January 2004, 20:50: Message edited by: mescalito ]

[Salviador]

Thats an inspiring poem you found, Waterdragon, sent chills down my spine just when it told me it would!

Still, what we have is too special to lose, closemindedness is too powerful a force at the moment... i think patience, restraint and forethought is a more important tool for us to use.

[mesq]

I dunno about this whole gnome thing... Who is anybody fooling anyway?? It is blatantly obvious that nobody has a gnome that goes and takes drugs!!! except maybe Chemical Shaman...

Like can you imagine a narc going... "oh it wasn't actually them taking drugs it was their gnome... oh well golly me I guess I won't look into that at all!)

To think we can now all avoid scrutiny by the authorities just because we superimpose our literary exploits onto a Raoul Duke Gnome figure is amazing.

I guess there are legal issues that need to be clarified.

Are admissions of wrong doing, as written on the internet, classified as evidence or as reasonable suspiscion?

How Iron Clad is "my gnome" "Foaf" "Swim" all of those... when it is usually obviously the case that people are talking about themselves. (*Mesq* waits for all the protests from people deluding themselves who now really believe that their gnome is doing all those things they write about. Face REALITY it is YOU eating all those psychedelic plants the gnome isn't real!"

Also maybe prefacing a post with "this is a work of fiction" and then having a literary corner for more dubious posts would work.

Anyway get over it... we are all being watched your IP has been logged, your ISP has been seconded... the narcs are hiding in the pot plants at bunnings and you're looking at 10-25 in the fed pen.

[ 21. January 2004, 05:40: Message edited by: Mesqualero ]

[ramon]

I dunno about this whole gnome thing... Who is anybody fooling anyway?? It is blatantly obvious that nobody has a gnome that goes and takes drugs!!! except maybe Chemical Shaman...

Your right Mesq mine is actually a elf , he is kind off touchy about his size so he likes to pass himself of a a gnome. Makes me wonder if some of the other information he has passed on to me has been realiable.

Seriously though I see that passing on gnome reports is more a issue with keeping within the rules as originally stipulated then attempting to circumvent the law.

In the last month I have had to do more moderating then all the rest of the time put together, but still I would hate to see some of this stuff banned ( as I think that some of these inquiries are very important to the newer members ). But equally I would hate to see the forums get to the stage where the members with the purely scientific interest and knowledge no longer blessed us with their wisdom

[folias]

I too have noticed a more lax attitude...

One can only assume sites like these are being read by people in various government agencies, to gauge trends and understand how people are thinking approaching plants/substances.

I very much doubt if actual infringements of plant/substance law are followed up through these forums...it's just not worth anyone's time or energy I wouldn't think.

I personally think it is important to be precise in one's communication, information is power, and we are communicing to each mostly here... And yet I think we must be discrete if the plants that one are growing/utilising are scheduled or listed in some way....

Gnomes are a silly way of going abou this I think, but third person ways of going about things, such as, 'the kratom tree was fed into the lawnmower as a shredder'! is probably a cleaner method, without shuddery sexual undertones of gnomedom...

Julian.

[Darklight]

Mesqualero:

I dunno about this whole gnome thing... Who is anybody fooling anyway??

Personally I believe its similar to a standard social courtesy which goes unnoticed til it's absent. Distancing implies at least a degree of care for self and others which in turn also implies that the same degree of care applies in real life, creating more work for those who wish to cause trouble.

People, rightly or wrongly, do make judgements about others based purely on text, otherwise flame wars would never happen And these judgements do unfortunately extend to areas outside this and other forums: regardless of accuracy, or whether they're personal or legal, such actions can have consequences. And personally, again, I'd like to ensure that negative consequences of all kinds be kept to a minimum for all forum members.

Many ppl here choose to research psychoactives only, and not consume, to consume legal substances only, or to consume illicit ones so infrequently that they don't consider carefully worded reports as constituting a risk to the rest of their full and interesting lives. Nor do they consider that posting such reports on a forum which presents as consistent and mannered a legal risk, as opposed to posting in a forum where frequent illicit drug use is openly discussed. If they didn't feel comfortable posting here, we'd lose both their input and their company, and I think everyone esle would feel the loss

[hoodoo]

I don't live in Australia so I am not sure, but I don't think that there has ever been a criminal case in the world which was prosecuted against someone who posted on an internet site by connecting them to the admitted illegal activities of others from the same site. I believe it would be hard for a prosecutor to prove that ALL members of the site were in any way complicit in any such admitted illegal act. Never the less, I have wondered if there would be zeolous prosecutors in this new age "against terror," who might attempt to weave some sort of conspiracy case together.

In the US the paternal powers that be have written a new law which allows organizers of raves to be accountable for illegal drug sales at their events claiming they knowingly allow such illegal activity to take place. Particularly, I think that providing water for dehydrated ravers who had become dehydrated by taking MDMA and other factors were some sort of proof that the organizers were complicit. I don't know the details. I realize that the rave case is not in anyway the same thing as an internet forum, but the point I am making is that these are not normal times in the US at least, where attacks on free speech and the loose use of the term "conspiracy" to connect people to criminal acts are increasingly initiated at many government levels. In the case of a few American citizens the right to a fair trial with council is no longer guarranteed. In the past, civil liberties groups in the US vigorously fought the conservative paternalists in the government attempts to diminish civil liberties and usually won, but these days such group's responses to attacks on civil liberties are increasingly on the wane as the corrupt conservatives combine their collected powers and media control. The dispersal of false information through the media and intimidation with fear have reached deep into the entire societie's psyche, warping the average persons ability to think rationally enough to recognize the value of such rights and to defend them. So I believe that anything is possible.

[folias]

I've noticed this gnomeless attitude increasing on other forums as well recently...

can't say that anything I have written should be a good example to anyone with this kind of thing ;-)

However, I think some level of discretion and care is mostly in the fabric of the post, rather than in simple FOAFS, gnomes and other general disclaimers.

Julian.

[Darklight]

folias:

However, I think some level of discretion and care is mostly in the fabric of the post (snip)

Well said- that too helps!

[Officer Steve]

After seeing Chemical Shaman's Gnome I have to say that I'm a little bit jealous, but in a good way. Nice to see some concrete proof that Gnomes DO in fact exist.

[gomaos]

If anyone wants to see a forum where everybody says exactly what they have done, how many e-pills they have at home, what's the difference between Ice and meth and speed and coke and crack and how they steal tablets at the doc and which pills are EXACTLY on the market and how much any of them take up to the smallest detail log on to

drogen-forum.de(of course you have to read german...)

everyone here is their own "chemical shaman"

The only time they ever get upset there when someone posts a link to a rivalling head-shop or ethno-shop...

well not exactly so, they had/have a never-ending thread about extracting opium from commercially bought poppy seed, called BM (Blau-Mohn) and they don't like people to post about that any more...

I've never seen any site where people admit to illicit drug-use so openly...

but that's europe...

[ 21. January 2004, 14:00: Message edited by: gomaos ]

[Auxin]

Officer Steve:

After seeing Chemical Shaman's Gnome I have to say that I'm a little bit jealous

Why? CSs gnome is castrated! Just like all gnomes effected by christianity... now in the olden days a 4 inch gnome would have a 4 inch cock as thick as his head, ooops I'm starting to drift OT.

I dunno about all this gnome stuff- at heart I'm a simple bastard. If I wanna talk about something I did I start with "hey- I did..." thats why you dont see any reports from me that start "Evam me sutam a gnome was walking down the street, and...". If I say I got a report from a friend- I got the report from a friend (I dont think I've ever actually posted a friends report come to think of it). Basically I dont say anything that I couldnt say infront of a cop... easy in my case since I quit doing the illegal kind of entheogens (I quit all the ones illegal in MY country anyway... if the mood strikes me I may spark up sally at some point ).

SINCE I dont do illegal stuff I dont HAVE to hide behind gnomes, foafs, swims, and aodtpu... I can see the dilema for people that do and since I'm no great philosopher or lawyer I'll leave that alone for the moment- lately though people, admitting to be aussies, have been comming on asking where to obtain S. divinorum, how to care for it, who has it, etc. Y'all might as well ask for crack! I think my getting annoyed is understandable, dont you. Personally I could roll around naked in sally if I wanted because its Legal here, its not legal in Oz... so take a break from asking for illegal drugs people, OK?

[ 21. January 2004, 14:07: Message edited by: Auxin ]

[Torsten]

CS, please dit your comments further. *I* know you're kidding, but others may not.

I am glad this topic pops up every now and then. yes, I agree things have become a bit more risky over the last few weeks and this thread should be all that is needed to remind people to tune things down a bit.

As for gnomes, they are not the ebst way of expressing things. They can be, but the concept seesmt o be lost on most. The way the post is written is much more important than the subject posting it. Concepts like SWIM are MUCH safer, but again they need to be used wisely.

Certain things to remember are that some offences are only prosecutable for 5 years. if you know what they are and you are talking about your 'bad old days' then that is fine. I tend to use this frequently

I certainly don't want this forum to go the way of others, so I suggest we all put a bit of thought into this and use a bit of restraint at times. I've also been told that the SAB rules reverted back to the UBB standard rules in an upgrade, so I have to rewrite them. They should make things a bit clearer.

[John_Barleycorn]

I might be slightly off here, but I always thought the trans-national character of the Internet provided some sort of out clause. In other words, there are some countries in the world which have vastly different drug legislation to the west, and we all all go there to experiment now and then, right? At least that's what I do when I feel the urge

As for this new "tough on crime" thing, allow me to offer a grass-roots perspective. I recently evicted a tenant of mine for massively unpaid rent, also served up with gobs of "f*ck you" attitude. The day I went around to change the locks, I noticed he was growing hydro. As the room wasn't too badly messed up, I wasn't too concerned about property damage, but it did give me the irrits that he was probably dealing and yet still too lousy to give me anything. The next thing he is on the phone demanding to be let in instantly. I told him he was busted unless he came up with some back rent. He promptly smashed a door in and took his plants, but leaving behind a trail of vegetation and his growing set-up.

I got home to a phone message from the police. The idiot had rung them up and told them practically everything, in a bid to pre-empt me. So I told the cops to get around there and gather the evidence for break-and-enter and cultivation (the SA dope law now is that the only misdemeanor is a single outdoor plant). Nothing seemed to happen for a couple of days, so I dropped in and asked them what was going on. Their stance was that they weren't going to do anything until I had filed a report, as they wanted an official victim. Aaargh! Several days later now they still haven't moved. I added the observation that this guy used to have a stream of Harley-riding mates coming and going, and that he had alluded to the fact that I wasn't just buying myself trouble with him alone. Still no action; too much trouble.

These sort of people know that and it is partly why they exhibit such a blase attitude to the law. In other words, if you have got enough front, you can get away with practically anything.

[t st tantra]

grey,grey,grey,grey areas everywhere,we try to hide in this confusion.i dont know if some things a gnome is doing are illegal anyway.certainly taking dmt is concidered illegal but yopo seeds while we assume are technically illegal,still seem very grey[especially when traditionally prepared,LOL].

t s t .