nabraxas Posted October 9, 2003 serapax is weird, you don't have to take more than 2 pills & your off w/the faries--but still moving(though i guess you'd look pretty slow)--that's not good. 1 pill however takes you pretty much straight to calm still dream land, & you retain a sense ov self awareness. it's not a case ov superiority over opium, but in the case discussed why bother w/all the hassle/illegality IF(i realise this isn't the case) you have a script?--infact if you had a script for 'pax i don't see how you'd ever get round to growing/milking poppies Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted October 10, 2003 2 points 1 gomaos does whole plant include the root?does wastl use only mature plants? 2 i think a lot of problems with extracts are to do with high thebain content.i think thebain is converted to morphine,which changes to codeine. immature plants,and tassie breeds contain high level of thebaine. t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psybernaut Posted October 10, 2003 gomaos:When most of the water is evaporated, take out solids, squash through a strainer and get most of the liquid off, return to frying pan and evaporate until it becomes a paste. Are you discarding the liquid and returning the solids to the pan, or the other way around? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted October 10, 2003 The liquid has the goodies in it... you reduced that to a paste... you can even dry the paste enough to put into gelcaps... but no don't discard the liquid... you can either discard the solid plantmaterial or freeze and extract it again next time mixed with fresh material Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slarty Fart Blaster Posted October 11, 2003 Mindmelt. I am confused... but that maybe a result of all those wacky, mind-bending drugs i have taken. You say quote: Why the derogatory and sour comments regarding valium and alchol. All i said was quote: What the hells that all about ???. As i found it strange that someone who doesn't like psychedelics would think an entheogen forum a good place to discuss opiates. I simply thought it common sense to go to a opiate forum to ask such questions. I once used depressant drugs to obliterate reality but i then found psychedelics would give me a better model of reality and i was much happier and no longer feel the need to be comfortable numb. I am not trying to put you down, just letting you know if have been where you are and know where this kind of behavior leads. And please don't pigeon hole me as a trippy hippy neo-shaman, its so far from the truth. All the best Fart face. p.s. recipie for opiate addiction. Take a pressure cooker and 3/4 fill with poppy heads with 10" of stalk, cover with water, add citric acid or lemon juice. Fix lid and boil for 30 mins. Start with half a cup and work up. Drunk hot it will give a rush in about 5-10 mins. p.p.s. "In Xanadu did Kubla Khan A stately pleasure-dome decree Where Alph, the sacred river, ran Down to a sunless sea ... I would build that dome in air, That sunny dome, those caves of ice! And all who heard should see them there, And all should cry, Beware! Beware! His flashing eyes, his floating hair! Weave a circle round him thrice, And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honey-dew hath fed, And drunk the milk of Paradise." Samuel Taylor Coleridge "While I was sitting at tea, I felt a strange sensation, totally unlike any thing I had ever felt before; a gradual creeping thrill, which in a few minutes occupied every part of my body, lulling to sleep the before-mentioned racking pain, producing a pleasing glow from head to foot, and inducing a sensation of dreamy exhilaration (if the phrase be intelligible to others as it is to me) similar in nature but not in degree to the drowsiness caused by wine, though not inclining me to sleep; in fact far from it, that I longed to engage in some active exercise; to sing, dance, or leap...so vividly did I feel my vitality - for in this state of delicious exhilaration even mere excitement seemed absolute elysium - that I could not resist the tendency to break out in the strangest vagaries, until my companions thought me deranged...After I had been seated [at the play I was attending] a few minutes, the nature of the excitement changed, and a 'waking sleep' succeeded. The actors on the stage vanished; the stage itself lost its reality; and before my entranced sight magnificent halls stretched out in endless succession with galley above gallery, while the roof was blazing with gems, like stars whose rays alone illumined the whole building, which was tinged with strange, gigantic figures, like the wild possessors of lost globe...I will not attempt farther to describe the magnificent vision which a little pill of 'brown gum' had conjured up from the realm of ideal being. No words that I can command would do justice to its Titanian splendour and immensity..." Thomas de Quincey [ 10. October 2003, 20:30: Message edited by: Slarty Fart Blaster ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Plantsoma Posted October 11, 2003 ATTN: Mindmelt. In case you hadnt realised, this is a forum for NATURAL plants and their derivatives. Most forums of this type ask people to leave the synthetic talk out of these forums, as there are plenty of drug forums around for pill-poppers. Whilst i respect your right to take whatever you like, i believe this forum is about ETHNOBOTANICALS Perhaps that was why you were refered to a more suitable forum for this topic? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindmelt Posted October 12, 2003 Dear person above...have you read or did you read the title of this thread.....It was concerned only with poppies and opium consumption..The pill popping bit only came in to play when describing the authours foaf prefered drug induced state..... .................. .................. .................. I have been a member of this forum for a few years now ,and, although I dont contribute a great deal and only post once in awhile I will tell you something...... ............ .............. ............. A great deal of ego inflation and one upmanship has grown like a cancer amongst many members of this community..Almost a snooty lofty feeling of superiority,just because they know what is exactly in this and that.Probably walk around boring the shit out of their friends,pointing out this tree and that tree and how if you take this substance and then extract this and then avoid yeasts and cheeses and bumble bees with busted wings,make a potion ,drink it up and sit quietly down you will experience the pleasures and sensations only reserved for the TRULLY initiated........Offcourse there are also alot of members who have kept their integrity and instead of waving their newly acquired knowledge in the face of the seeker,they happily and with great compasion share and enlighten those seeking guidance........... ............. ............. LMFAO...just because someone pops a pill or scrapes some latex they are obviousy inferior, their drug consumption seemingly beneath the contempt of the urban shamans among you... ............. 5-htp, L-tryptophan,melatonin.........They dont get that from scraping the stale semen from a yaks scrotum do they YODA..Umm nope it comes in a pill and a very very large section and time has been taken up on this site talking about them....But you wouldnt know that because you only became a member about 2 days ago. Form your exhaulted throne,peering way way down upon me and my pill popping just dont get to lonely....... [ 12. October 2003, 01:24: Message edited by: mindmelt ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted October 12, 2003 wow. this thread is getting intense. almost like it belongs at ethnobotany-australia! LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darklight Posted October 12, 2003 Dazd:In case you hadnt realised, this is a forum for NATURAL plants and their derivatives. Sorry cob, this is the Chill Space. The social forum. You can talk about whatever you want as long as it complies with the forum rules you signed up for... ie no abuse or self incrimination, and maybe no red lollies either Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FragmentedSanity Posted October 12, 2003 Lo all I thought id throw in my 2 cents as poppies are .... well lets just say SWIM likes them alot. first off - unless your really craving the sensation of smoking O Id sugges abandoning scoring the pods - its just too hit and miss - slice too far and all the goodies leak inside the pod, also for those concerned with legalities scoring leaves proof of intent to manufacture... not to mention you'd need to process the entire patch to get a decent amount. From what Ive read the only part of the plant to avoid is the roots - leaves stems and *drools* pods are all good. If you happen to be chemically inclined im sure you can isolate goodies from the roots too - but for the rest of us its prolly safer to avoid them. As for tassies and Thebaine - yeah there is a variety bread for Thebaine content (I think its called the Norman strain but dont quote me) as its used for lots of things - like pethadine. But most tassies ae still super potent poppies. Mindmelt - I sympathise, but Im also totally jealous - a patch of poppies like that would make me very happy! Seriously tho - try Wastl's recipie before giving up, it should work as good as any. Also take the advice Slarty gave and hit the somni forum - there you will find almost every question you ever had about poppies covered - twice - but it is the place to go for all things O related. where legal you could also try brewing yourself a tea, take a number of pods (start small for your own sake) empty the seeds out - chop/blend/grind the pods add water and lemon juice and simmer for 15min, gag down the lot or filter and sip - add honey or whatver for taste. Once again the somni forum has copius debate over which is the best method and dosage and such. In the end tho - the poppy is a plant that treats everyone differently so you really have to find out for yourself. Oh and someone above said you might only OD a little bit - Dont be a fool - thats like saying a datura extract is a nice safe trip. Respect poppies as you would anything else or they will bite. Its quite simple take too much and you die. play safe. later FS PS If all else fails mindmelt emial me your address and I'll take a holiday *lol* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted October 12, 2003 anyone else come accross poppies with a bit of purple colouring on the pod cap?are they tassies? i think they came from the supermarket labled 'mellow yellow'. t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindmelt Posted October 12, 2003 Thanks very much ,I often have a squiz on the SOMMI forum,but without sounding like a suck,there are a dozen or so people on this site whos opinions and advive I give far more respect.......Originally I found that I was scoring the pod just alittle to deep and so thats why any subsequent milkings were proving futile,it was all leaching back into the pod.......I havent made the extraction yet,but I will,Im getting a buzz now from the brown goo and that makes me very happy....Thanks again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted October 13, 2003 About the somni forum... they don't let you join there, I've tried a few times but to no avail.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted October 13, 2003 don't worry g. it's nothing against you, the somni forum limits membership & only opens it up when they need new blood. vins or someone usually posts when they're taking on new members. i also have to agree somewhat w/mindmelts last little rant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FragmentedSanity Posted October 13, 2003 I have to agree a bit about the SOMNI forum, I can only take so much of it myself, but I still think its the place to go for anything relating to poppies - it may take a hell of a lot of sifting but if opiates are your poison then the siftings worthwhile. Im all for poppy discussion here too - Its nice to get as mmuch discussion going as possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted October 13, 2003 I normally don't like to go into forums that don't let me post, or are severely restrictive, or just delete your posts without notification and explanation(like murple's forum for example), but I'll go and browse and look for other methods. Also, I think of startting a poppy thread here, something like: The Poppy: Ancient Entheogen or Evil producer of addictive narcotics? Or perhaps we should keep it in this thread? I'd like some input about what people think... when I was in my 20s, I lived in Berlin, and all people we knew there, our "friends", were shooting up heroin, except for my girlfriend and me, because I totally demonized heroin and other addiction drugs, and especially needles... Perhaps that's why I'm still alive and reasonably healthy now. But as you get older, strong beliefs crumble away, and you want to find out the "real truth". I still never touch any needles, and never will unless I contract a fatal disease, then I won't hold back.... So re poppy: I think it's an important ethnobotanical plant, and if you use the plant as a whole, the whole alkaloid combination together, it will most likely NOT make you addictive. I'd like to hear other people's experiences and input. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FragmentedSanity Posted October 13, 2003 Gomaos - Ive got a lot of respect for your input here at SAB, as I usually find myself agreeing with your outlook on things. But IMO poppies can be quite addictive - but they are much the same as anything else,YMMV. For an elf I know it was found that if elfie switched from poppies to pot one day in 3 then things were fine. No more depression, got healthier and basically started getting it together. Basically Elfie was struggling - but a dose at night made the days bareable and the day he layed off meant his digestion never got too far out of wack, The pot also reminded Elfie that he had to eat occasionally.. At that rate Elfie was able top sustain a mild habit - without having withdrawals. Thats the system that worked for him anyway. Of course elfie didnt learn this tric overnight. He had to learn the hard way about WD's but I dare say thats something that everyone needs to go through - once the worst is over its a good time to take a hard look at the way youve been living. Of course sometimes the system failed - like when elfie's poor back decides to spasm and the pain makes laying off for the day a not so very nice idea - but having been there before you know just how much worse its going to be for every day you dont lay off. So in a nutshell - poppies are great - I can totally understand why they have been cherished by humans forever - but they just arent an every day thing, else the beautiful can turn very ugly indeed. FS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psycho0 Posted October 13, 2003 tea made from just market-bought seeds have a strong, pleasant effect i was informed by the gnome that lives under the bridge of my fish pond. 375g seed is enough for someone with no tolerance but the abovementioned gnome usually takes 700-1000g seed. it has even lasted for 2 days he tells me and moclobemide works well with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted October 14, 2003 yes it is possible to "get off" on a tea made from a kilo ov seeds- but i wouldn't recommend it. all the fats in the seed(?my guess? make it very nauseating--i've heard-spend the money on codiene) as far as a physical addiction goes pod tea/opium is right up there(worse withdrawls than heroin--but a walk in the park compared to seropax/benzo WD's) i really don't know about gomaos's whole plant tea, could be there's an alkaloid in the actual plant that does negate the addictive properties ov the actual flower/seed pod, that's the screwy way "nature" works. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted October 14, 2003 could be there's an alkaloid in the actual plant that does negate the addictive properties ov the actual flower/seed pod, that's the screwy way "nature" works. That's what I assume/hope... I don't know if there's literature about it, I'll do some research on erowid... not going to the poppy forum because they suck/don't allow new members... everybody should boycott them because of it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slarty Fart Blaster Posted October 15, 2003 gomaos, what are you saying ??? quote: my theory is that when the extract of the whole plant is consumed, then are mechanisms in place through the interplay of all alkaloids together that prevent over-use and development of tolerance... what evidence do you have of that ?. i thought that it was common knowledge that opium and opiates are highly addictive. quote: even high doses of codeine are sort of "whacko" and "unnatural"... Codeine is a natural component of opium and some of its effects come from its o-demethylation to morphine, depending on your CYP450 2D6, or are you arguing that "natural" is better than synthetic ? quote: Wastl has also never been an addict ( up to now he has NEVER injected any substance for recreation, not counting the ones he was given at hospital legally) quote: he already dreads the time when he runs out and has to use codeine again. ??? What's this about needle users too ?, i have recovered from a long term opiate addiction where at times i used needles, i never got any blood transmitted diseases or abscesses and only lost one vein, apart from that i am perfectly well. I still use needles now and again for certain psychedelics too, can you tell me why that is such a bad thing in your philosophy ?. You are also now ranting about the Somni forum and making assumptions about it being like Murples ?. It was explained to you that they open now and again to people who want to register but you can browse at will. Please don't boycott such a good resource just cos of someone who is pissed off with it. Opiates are Entheogens. I don't think so. They have a use in societies in cases of severe grief...Homer conveys its effects in The Odyssey. In one episode, Telemachus is depressed after failing to find his father Odysseus. But then Helen... "...had a happy thought. Into the bowl in which their wine was mixed, she slipped a drug that had the power of robbing grief and anger of their sting and banishing all painful memories. No one who swallowed this dissolved in their wine could shed a single tear that day, even for the death of his mother or father, or if they put his brother or his own son to the sword and he were there to see it done..." In some parts of the contemporary Middle East, chilled glasses of poppy tea are served to mourners at funerals to ease their grief. It produces amazing twilight dream states but i have never had the same feelings of unity or love when on opiates as i get from true psychedelics. Experiment, but beware opiates are highly addictive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted October 15, 2003 slarty- i'm sure you're well aware ov why many people have a dislike ov needle use. not to criticise your habits, but i've known many needle users who are more addicted to the "feel the steel" than to the speed or smack they like to shoot up.(if you need to shoot up every 4 hours, why not get a cathater(?) fitted) i've known dumb punks who shot up cask wine claiming "at least we don't do drugs" heroin addicts are in a different position, but when you talk ov losing veins(i've had severe thrombosis- but never lost a vein) or think ov the junkies w/no legs, injecting in the groin or the neck--can you really be suprised that some would look down on needlework? so, opium as an ethnogen-- i'd say that i'm not even sure what we mean by ethnogen. if an ethnogen has to be truely psychedelic then opium probably wouldn't be. but if mariajuana can be counted as an ethnogen/psychedelic then opium should definately be in there. -now don't go giving me some dictionary definition ov what an ethnogen "is", i'm trying to find out what we consider to be ethnogenic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slarty Fart Blaster Posted October 15, 2003 Hi nabraxas, I think you are resorting to extremes and stereotyping there mate, are you saying all i.v. drug users are useless, crusty no-marks with missing limbs and infectious diseases. Like i said i got away with no lasting health problems and know others likewise, it was occasional use with a few favorite chemist goodies like Diconal and Pethedine, Palfium more for the rush. quote: not to criticise your habits Why categorize it as a habit thought, for me it is a choice. Do i want to stuff up the nasal passages of my lab mice or give them a nice i.m. or i.v. For some R.C.'s like DPT or K it is the best method in my opinion. Anyway like everything i must urge moderation and balance and if you choose this method read up and be as clean as possible. Entheogen... producing the divine within. Not a word i like either but it seems to be widely used to describe major psychedelics. Not totally sure if ganja is an entheogen but it is closer as it can produce extreme time distortion, bending of reality, and some visuals. Like Opium, it is more in line with dream-states i think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted October 15, 2003 Hi, Slarty fart B., only saw your post today, I'll try and answer it: my theory is that when the extract of the whole plant is consumed, then are mechanisms in place through the interplay of all alkaloids together that prevent over-use and development of tolerance... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- what evidence do you have of that ?. Only Wastl's subjective experience. Wastl's likes for and needs of the poppy extract (I wouldn't even call it opium) can in no way be compared to that of a junkie shooting up heroin. Those people just live for their addiction, Wastl can substitute poppy extract and codeine with other things easily. please also note that there is a quite advanced alcohol addiction involved, and I find that just about anything else is better than alcohol with it's horrible side- and after-effects. Wastl has never experienced any withdrawal symptoms from poppy extract...yet. Codeine is a natural component of opium and some of its effects come from its o-demethylation to morphine, depending on your CYP450 2D6, or are you arguing that "natural" is better than synthetic Yes. If he has a choice, Wastl would always prefer poppy extract to Codeine. Wastl has also never been an addict ( up to now he has NEVER injected any substance for recreation, not counting the ones he was given at hospital legally) I think that most people would agree that shooting up drugs, especially opiates, coke and amphetamine, is very destructive. I have watched the effects of recreational drug injection on MANY friends and aquaintances, and can say truthfully, that by shooting up drugs the real addiction starts. You have lost a vein? What does that mean? So it must have been pretty bad. Many people I knew who started shooting up in their 20s are dead now, mainly from liver damage. I know if you keep everything clean and do things right, your liver might not be damaged. Yet I have known people who have used bottles of dirty water they found somewhere to shoot up heroin because they were so addicted, and of course they landed in hospital. I would still say that using needles is very dangerous and would advice anyone never to do this. You are also now ranting about the Somni forum and making assumptions about it being like Murples ?. It was explained to you that they open now and again to people who want to register but you can browse at will. Please don't boycott such a good resource just cos of someone who is pissed off with it. I'm not telling anyone to boycott them, this is a free country, I'm just saying I'm not going there and it sucks that they don't allow new members. Are opiates entheogens? Well certainly Morphine, heroin, codeine and all those are just narcotics, I was referring to whole poppy extract... But I may be wrong on this one. One thing I will state again: orally taken drugs will most likely not make you nearly as addicted as when they are injected. I am convinced of that. Re ganja: I think it is the most important entheogen in the world today, more so than dmt which is only available to a select few. Ganja is everywhere and makes the world a better place. Just my 2c, this is supposedly a free country. [ 15. October 2003, 09:36: Message edited by: gomaos ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindmelt Posted October 15, 2003 All these people concerned with the addictive properties of OPIUM must be kidding........For you yourself,do you have any idea just how many plants you need to grow to even harvest a small amount of the latex.Obviously you dont...My foaf patch is HUGE and since working out how exactly to score the pods we can milk each one many many times.Foaf finds a depth of exactly 1 millimeter perfect...So my friend hasnt even bothered with the tea yet but will when all is dry and the best seeds re-collected........... .................... .................... You can GET A HABIT/ADDICTION off almost anything,Salvia that I would like too see,but we arent little 15 year olds anymore,we go into this fully informed,with our eyes wide open to the risks and dangers of addiction.Just because its there to have everyday does not me you have too......... ...........Needle users are stigmatised due to some of their brethrens habit of bashing old ladies,sticking up 7/11's with needles,breaking into houses and cars and laying DEAD in the gutter. .....When I was 20 I was addicted ,heavily and for 4 years to BOOZE,hospitalisation etc etc.Not making excuses for myself but it was pigeon holed into the self-medicating catergory due to an unpleasant childhood....Im 30 now,still young but old enough to know that I will never get addicted or beyond the point of no return with any drug EVER AGAIN.... ........... ........... ........... Notice how this thread will soon,if it isnt beggining to allready, degenerate into a molecule and extraction WAR....BLAHBLAHBLAH said.....this,then someone says no you have to grind and tweak the juice of a monkeys testicle to null and void my eyeballs 57 receptor.This battle then rages for 30 pages,the fun goes out of it,so too does the learning half the time.Its a persons or peoples inability to not let themselves seemingly be outdone or OUT-KNOWLEDEGED by another that is becoming more prevalent in these boards.... Some jerk-off whos been on these boards for about a month vomitts out a speel,that he only just read and copied verbatim from elswhere of text and chemicals and receptor sites and thinks hes ALBERT TORSTENSTEIN all of a sudden............ ........... ........... My foaf greatly appreciates all the positive feedback and comments regarding this topic,he also appreciates some of the negative comments and feedback from those who meant it with the fullness of their heart and not simply grand-standing. Still scared about the putty,heard it can make you crook as a dog and vommitt for hours upon hours... Hahahhaha,when I was 20 I would have done it by now,spewed,hated it,done it again,kept doing it until I became an addict and then only hate the world as I was suffering withdrawl..10 years can be a very long time in ones life...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
