Bolwarra Posted February 22, 2010 http://compra-segura...1ad6bec22ae05f0 Translated: Liquid Ayahuasca preparadao by experimented shaman in the Amazonian forest of Peru. Plastic bottle with 0,5 liters of ready extract to be consumed. It reaches after 6-8 dose. Plenty of interesting products on this w/site...I wonder who they sell these products to legally? I can't see many Sth Americans buying a pre-made Ayahuaca beverage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blip Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) . Edited April 5, 2010 by lsdreamz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted February 22, 2010 I HATE THIS KIND OF CRAP! It's this short of stupid, exploitative shit that will get these amazing plants made illegal! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rahli Posted February 22, 2010 I HATE THIS KIND OF CRAP! It's this short of stupid, exploitative shit that will get these amazing plants made illegal! Ayahuasca is completely legal in Peru. It has been secured as a legitimate expression of Peruvian culture. It is not Peruvians selling Ayahuasca that will get these plants made illegal (where? in the West?) but Western consumers purchasing and importing it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolwarra Posted February 22, 2010 It is not Peruvians selling Ayahuasca that will get these plants made illegal (where? in the West?) but Western consumers purchasing and importing it. I tend to agree here. I'm also worried about possible (over)-exploitation of source material. How exactly are these 'commercial' products produced i.e cultivation and harvesting processes? It seems unlikely to be farmed in the western style monocultural sense? most likely harvested from the wild. How stable are populations of these species in the wild? are they a geographically restricted? and what pressure might this place on their level of endangerment or reduction thereof? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horus Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) Ok seriously back to business . In my experience from importing,and I was fortunate to have a good crack at it at the start of the decade. But customs eventually became only heavy on bark and woody stuff and want to nuke it and send me letters, but Psychotria I had in the same shipments was fine and forwarded to me straight away. So how do you think I would go ordering this stuff http://compra-segura.com/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=275&osCsid=d1627769707d3cd571ad6bec22ae05f0 It is just leaf....for study....under my caapi.....I am game to order some. Like 60bucks aint much to wager,and cheaper than just the passport to Peru.....Ok not quite the same...just making some some context. But please first some well learned advise.On current legalities....the ethical thread could run forever Edited February 22, 2010 by colhawk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C_T Posted February 22, 2010 considering customs could charge you with the same offense as any schedule 1 substance of 250grams... i wouldn't import it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted February 22, 2010 Check out the "Ayahuasca Anti-Commercial Shamanism" tribe on Tribe.net! .Tribe[214d5939-2efc-4c90-bbfc-eefdb49abc23]"]see link Ayahuasca must NOT be commercialized! It will only lead to bad things! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolwarra Posted February 22, 2010 Ok seriously back to business . In my experience from importing,and I was fortunate to have a good crack at it at the start of the decade. But customs eventually became only heavy on bark and woody stuff and want to nuke it and send me letters, but Psychotria I had in the same shipments was fine and forwarded to me straight away. So how do you think I would go ordering this stuff http://compra-segura...1ad6bec22ae05f0 It is just leaf....for study....under my caapi.....I am game to order some. Like 60bucks aint much to wager,and cheaper than just the passport to Peru.....Ok not quite the same...just making some some context. But please first some well learned advise.On current legalities....the ethical thread could run forever Quarantine will almost certainly notice/open it. They are very efficient at spotting organic materials. So apart from it being an illegal import it may pose a legitimate quarantine risk. Many people grow Psychotrias in Oz SAB usually has live plants available. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reptyle Posted February 22, 2010 With the medicine comes the culture to attain the pure experiences...they are like two serpents coiling around the staff of Hermes...where one goes the other will follow... the thing is...whilst being entangled in the material universe, the need to find money and to support oneself contaminates the attainment of true liberation, this is why a shaman or guru needs to have methods of sustaining function in the world whilst offering the sacraments to devotee's for offerings rather than a price... commercial shamanism, as you call it, does ultimately lead to a true spiritual life, though the path is confudled with the transition through the legal system into a purer time...understanding the true merits of working with the spirit plants and communicating that effectively is the work that needs to be done in our era. Don't devalue it by being polarized in your visions. The world requires change, there is no doubt, though at some stage a state shall be reached, as has been in the past, where the society shall separate out into its respective layers like oil from water and the teachers shall again be liberated to share the wonders of our world in freedom, being protects by the warriors and supported by the merchants... this is the natural order of things, and the process of attaining on a world wide scale requires only time and the fire of effort of the few who understand where they belong. creators of a new world consciousness. let is all be accepted, let indivduals be guided by their hearts and let the process run its course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolwarra Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) commercial shamanism, as you call it, does ultimately lead to a true spiritual life, though the path is confudled with the transition through the legal system into a purer time...understanding the true merits of working with the spirit plants and communicating that effectively is the work that needs to be done in our era. Don't devalue it by being polarized in your visions. EDIT: Just realised the above was actually in response to Teotz post In theory i have no objection to this kind of thing at all...they are providing a product and in return they require compensation. That's pretty well fine with me. Calling it commercial in the title was merely incidental... My only real concern was the potential ecological impact of this kind small scale production...i have no idea and could only guess. was kinda hoping others here might shed some light on this? Edited February 23, 2010 by mentis epulae Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reptyle Posted February 23, 2010 Obviosly there wil bea an environmental impact though the fact is, whether it is an ice age,a desertification, a metior shower, an abundance of leaf eater insects, or humans, the jungle will go through its stages...it is only once the "necessity" arises that agricultural production of such products begins... the fact is our world is changing...being precious about the wildest most inhospitable locations on earth, and undermining its resilience to threats of whichever kind is not a game we should be playing. chop chop chop'em down. utopia isn't to far off, though the fires required to forge it may be hotter than we ever expected. something of note...if you aren't out there chaining yourself to tree's used for paper, then please don't even contemplate commenting on the use of ayahuasca vines as a commercial product because you think its amoral. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiral Posted February 23, 2010 Ok seriously back to business . In my experience from importing,and I was fortunate to have a good crack at it at the start of the decade. But customs eventually became only heavy on bark and woody stuff and want to nuke it and send me letters, but Psychotria I had in the same shipments was fine and forwarded to me straight away. So how do you think I would go ordering this stuff http://compra-segura.com/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=275&osCsid=d1627769707d3cd571ad6bec22ae05f0 It is just leaf....for study....under my caapi.....I am game to order some. Like 60bucks aint much to wager,and cheaper than just the passport to Peru.....Ok not quite the same...just making some some context. But please first some well learned advise.On current legalities....the ethical thread could run forever Go for it I say...they are gifts for friends and none of them has any intention of ever opening them, they are for collections and collectables only. I'd love one for my collection of strange esoteric bottles and medicines... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted February 23, 2010 You're seriously advocating importation of illegal substances? I'd love an unopened bottle of Heroin (as opposed to diacetylmorphine) but I don't think they'd accept that excuse if I tried to import one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted February 23, 2010 I agree with ballzac, customs are not going to accept that as an excuse to import illegal products. Advocating the importation of illegal substances surely cannot reflect well on this board. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reptyle Posted February 23, 2010 Once upon a time the ghandarvas would produce more than a million doses of soma a year...they are considered the messengers between the Gods and men, they are beautiful singers and musicians and have strong associations with trees and flowers, resins and incense. They are said to be humans sharing the forms of deities, they are able to fly and teleport at will. Their form of union is one of mutual consent, communion of sorts... The samanas were also beautiful singers though worked mainly to entertain men and Kings. The Gautama buddha was a samana. Soma sellers were considered by priests to be unclean due to their caste, being merchants, and it was thought to be dangerous to consume the food they had prepared or come into contact with. The end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiral Posted February 23, 2010 And what if you are not expecting a parcel but some old friends from overseas decided to send you something as a gift...most people in other countries particularly SA wouldn't have a clue about customs or border rules...I'm not advocating anything but one can usually get away with something like this once off, particularly if you have to.... proove you have no idea some old friends simply posted it out as a gift. Guess it depends how it's packaged, and how many were sent, my guess is the people sending would have no problems being incognito on request. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted February 23, 2010 Indeed, quantity would make a pretty big difference. One or two vs. 10 or 20 would probably result in a different attitude. Still, ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law. Even if it were possible, would the risk really be worth it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted February 23, 2010 Once upon a time the ghandarvas would produce more than a million doses of soma a year...they are considered the messengers between the Gods and men, they are beautiful singers and musicians and have strong associations with trees and flowers, resins and incense. They are said to be humans sharing the forms of deities, they are able to fly and teleport at will. Their form of union is one of mutual consent, communion of sorts... The samanas were also beautiful singers though worked mainly to entertain men and Kings. The Gautama buddha was a samana. Soma sellers were considered by priests to be unclean due to their caste, being merchants, and it was thought to be dangerous to consume the food they had prepared or come into contact with. The end. and something happened to soma and it is no longer around. some say overharvested....others say supressed and replaced by soma substitutes which were not as active..... one of my friends belongs to a shamanic tradition which believes you should find a relationship with the plant and brew your own....they rarely give a dose to anyone else. t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted February 24, 2010 my opinons on this topic are divided, i sort of never liked it when cannabis got suddenly commercial all of a sudden. but maybe this has even lead in the longrun to some liberations around the cannabis cause. so maybe a flashy aya in a bottle, is a forrunner in the process of legalising what is forbidden. more mainstream people will be touched by aya and as such, the poistive feedback of those people, might just be enough to change the legal status of those products. personaly, i am aswell repelled by the concept of "aya"in a bottle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GingaNinja Posted February 24, 2010 personaly, i am aswell repelled by the concept of "aya"in a bottle. many shamans in South America will serve you your delicous aya from a bottle. Even give you take aways in a bottle. Its not always the romantic idea of fresh brewed and only handled by the purest of beings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted February 28, 2010 chiral, when you get busted with drugs the onus is on you to prove that you did not import them and that you were unaware of the illegality. As they have already seized your computer by this time and trawled through your credit card statements, you might have hard time. Advocating such action to other memebrs is highly irresponsible. The harmaline content in ayahuasca would not just lead to a 250g illegal drug importation/possession, but could infact land you with a charge of a "large commercial quantity" - which carries a 25year max sentence. Usually this charge will be reduced after analysis, but at the time of arrest you may need to put up a couple of houses for security to get bail! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slybacon Posted February 28, 2010 ^^^^ I think that bail money would of been better spent traveling to where you can try it legally. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiral Posted February 28, 2010 chiral, when you get busted with drugs the onus is on you to prove that you did not import them and that you were unaware of the illegality. As they have already seized your computer by this time and trawled through your credit card statements, you might have hard time. Advocating such action to other memebrs is highly irresponsible. The harmaline content in ayahuasca would not just lead to a 250g illegal drug importation/possession, but could infact land you with a charge of a "large commercial quantity" - which carries a 25year max sentence. Usually this charge will be reduced after analysis, but at the time of arrest you may need to put up a couple of houses for security to get bail! Yes, no I would never encourage any such activities as one could end up in all sorts of bother, my point was kind of mixed up in condoning such practices...I was trying to say...and not very well I might say...what would the repercussions be if a friend from OS did send you something questionable, that you were completely unaware of, I'm assuming that once they saw you didn't have any records of the transaction then you would be free to go and the material confiscated...it's quite a grey area though, imagine if someone was using your post box for powders from China etc...and you just happen to be a reader of ethno forums etcs but never actually ordered anything...you could really get into some bother trying to weave a passage out of that situation.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slybacon Posted February 28, 2010 ^^^ Identity theft is a big problem. It might not even be your house. It might be a post box or address in your name you never knew you had. Maybe a hotel room whist your on holidays... ekkk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
