Mr Stay Puft Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) I had a bit of an epiphany today when reading something... it had to do with vegetarians and vegans etc... i was just wondering what peoples thoughts were on the life of a dairy cow... beef cattle is a life that sucks.. you are born, eat and then when you are finally in your prime a bolt is fired through your head... but if you are a dairy cow your are born, maybe fed some hormones to make you produce milk all the time, have your nipples sucked 2 times a day and eat to your hearts content until you are way past your prime and beginning to age... i guess you miss out on a few old age years but it doesn't seem like too bad a life! my question to everybody is would you be content as a dairy cow, because if so i don't feel so bad drinking milk as i do eating a porterhouse! Edited August 9, 2009 by Mr Stay Puft Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yawning Man Posted August 9, 2009 Cows aren't really smart enough to be content. So if i was a dairy cow i wouldn't realise if my life was shit or not. cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
incognito Posted August 9, 2009 i dunno, being a dairy cow u have ur children forcibly removed from you each year and constantly suffer mastitis! but shit man what would milo be without full cream milk?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
~shameless~ Posted August 9, 2009 Im with peacful son, " healthy cow's, living eating and dying" i dont think they have the capabilities to experience suffering in the way that we do, they can even watch each other being dispatched and not worry about death. As long as the whole process done really professionally quick and clean of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerbil Posted August 9, 2009 From what i've seen, even in good quality practice I don't really agree with mass production, hypocritical cause i do utilise the products often. Although I do think it's highly dependent on the farm and the practice, I'd much prefer to be on a smaller less intensive productive farm i'd reckon, with choice of production type, neither, I can see either side for beef or dairy so can't really choose one I'm trying to become self sufficient in wild meat and eventually a mix of home and wild meats but don't have the space / appropriate area at the moment, but milk is a hard one for me to break, maybe incorporate that in the future too I don't really agree at all with the too stupid to be content comments, most animals are much more clued in than we give them credit for and IMO most if not all especially mammals are near on spot on to us, it's hard to say as we are not in each others shoes but it seems we can operate in different ways, but that's not to say animals don't know what is and isn't good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted August 9, 2009 was thinking about this when out bushwalking with sab friends recently......watching roos..... having to spend all day eating,what a drag! a day or so later a radio program was putting forward cooking food as the advance which allowed humans more free time for other pursuits..... t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted August 10, 2009 not scared? what about those stats on another thread that showed 100 fold increases in adrenaline in cows that had gone through a slaughterhouse vs. cows that had been killed singularly? If this is anthropomorphising, then that's saying that adrenaline has a different effect in cows as it does in humans? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MindExpansion Posted August 10, 2009 If this is anthropomorphising, then that's saying that adrenaline has a different effect in cows as it does in humans? And who's to say thats not the case? Think it also relates to where the adrenaline can act, if they dont have the same neural structure (i.e the same lobular structure) then who's to say, even IF (and it is an IF) the neurotransmitters elicit the same downstream effects in the neuron this may produce totally different qualitative effects. Example if our conscious experience is generated in the frontal lobe based on sensory inputs, if there is a difference in those sensory inputs the experience will vary, also if there is difference in the processor for any one of those senses (e.g if the visual cortex produces a different image from the same sensory input compared to human) or a difference in the component of the brain that converts those senses into a conscious experience then the animals experience will differ. This is all just postulation for the sake of discussion because i find it deeply interesting to consider how certain chemical interactions are all that is involved in producing what i call 'life'. Peace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) i dunno, being a dairy cow u have ur children forcibly removed from you each year and constantly suffer mastitis! dairy is pretty brutal, even though dairy cows now produce a lot more milk than the calf needs, the only commercial use for a male dairy calf is veal otherwise they are just discarded. you could produce your own cow milk and use the bulls as tractors, but i imagine you'd end up with lots of animals and you'd have to sell them to somebody who wants to kill them so i'm not sure about an ethical dairy model, that said i do love dairy. Edited August 11, 2009 by ThunderIdeal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Stay Puft Posted August 10, 2009 what gets me about the meat industry is that the animals go through one of the most traumatic experiences of their lives just before they die... they get packed onto a truck, drive around at 100k's in the freezing air breathing petrol fumes and standing in their own shit, and then are disembarked and killed... don't get me wrong im far from vegetarian, in fact i love meat, but compassion sometimes gets the better of me... when sitting behind one of the trucks seeing the terror in the eyes of the poor animals, i sometimes wonder who the real animals are! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted August 10, 2009 back to the days of confronting your prey with spears I say! Rush for the human and rush for the animal. Makes you feel soooo alive! But dairy farming seems a little more passive. It's not perfect..... but for sure is less brutal! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yawning Man Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) I don't really agree at all with the too stupid to be content comments, most animals are much more clued in than we give them credit for and IMO most if not all especially mammals are near on spot on to us, it's hard to say as we are not in each others shoes but it seems we can operate in different ways, but that's not to say animals don't know what is and isn't good. I agree gerbil. I didn't they were too stupid. But cows don't 'think'. They would deffinately have moments of relaxation and being content but they wouldn't realise it. My reasoning is that animals are far more in tune with nature, and their lives are about surviving and keeping their species alive in order to maintain a balance. The earth provides them with everything they need including instincts that tell them what to do, when. So when it comes down to it they dont think, they act. Does that make sense? lol Mr Stay Puft - My family raises beef cows from a young age and then have them killed. Which means a more relaxed life for the cow and a less stressful few days before their death. Plus the meat is more tender and tastes better And the added benefit of not supporting an industry that sucks so much out of the earth. Calves only cost roughly $100 and in the end you get $500 dollars of meat that could last a family of four almost a year. cheers Edit: Dairy farms use fucking massive amounts of water. Edited August 10, 2009 by peaceful_son Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psychoshaman Posted September 10, 2009 life feeds on life, every creature has the right to live, yet we all die in some way, shape or form, for the benifet of someone/thing else, everything is someone elses servant. i became a vego after contemplating the idea for some length and at the end made the descion to become one, mr stay puft they are the very thoughts that i started to think about, stuff like that and i used to be a voracious meat eater, yet i did not kill any other living creatures knowingly that was the beginning and i realised that i ate meat, just to satisfy my palate. i have a question as well, why, oh why, do they have to render animal fat, rennet, i believe, into cheese, cheese is supposed to be cheese, makes my life difficult sometimes as i love cheese, i eat dairy, just not the animals. in answer to your question, without getting to deep into it i would say... yes, i would be more content being a dairy cow, then the other poor bugger, but that also is with my human mind answering that question, what else could you do, maybe a johnathan livingston cow? and by the way, i think of myself as a murderer eating vegetables, after all they live also. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted September 16, 2009 just saw the video of bear-things being skinned. saw them bludgeoned anyway, turned it off when it looked like they were going to pull it's skin off (conscious). humans are so inconsiderate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mac Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) We all know most animals have the same basic form of emotions as we do they may be primitive but we have all seen different animals react to the death of offspring, pair for life, lash out in anger or defense hey you can even get dogie Prozac for the depressed pooch so why would a cow be any different i also belive humans are ment to be omnivores its just in the modern society we are not hunting or raising our own meat the market is driven by the consumer so its up to us what we buy just like the egg industry you have caged or free range eggs etc now you have rspca liberty eggs supposedly produced with the utmost consideration for the animals welfare, shouldn't this product labeling be taken further with all animals & animal products ? that way the consumer has a say in what products they buy at least ? Edited September 16, 2009 by mac Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Storm crow Posted September 20, 2009 (edited) i have a question as well, why, oh why, do they have to render animal fat, rennet, i believe, into cheese, cheese is supposed to be cheese, makes my life difficult sometimes as i love cheese, i eat dairy, just not the animals. Traditional rennet is produced from the stomachs of calves. Look for rennet(non-animal) as an ingredient on cheeses. It is used in many varities of cheese, and is quite commonly used in feta. Edited September 20, 2009 by Tarnicus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coin Posted September 20, 2009 yeah, many cheese makers are now using microbial rennet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
G*P Posted September 21, 2009 my question to everybody is would you be content as a dairy cow, because if so i don't feel so bad drinking milk as i do eating a porterhouse! If I can consecrate the life, before I take it in prayer to sustain my own- im fine with anything. I'd feel worse drinking milk.. if it wasnt so delicious.. than eating a porterhouse due to the force pregnancy and removal that keeps them making milk. Why dont we commercially produce human milk, anyhow? People will drink it from cows.. but not from beautiful breasts? I dont get that! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted September 21, 2009 can anybody confirm or deny? i was listening to a dairy farmer talking about how if the mother cow is milked twice a day, she will continue producing milk... maybe he just meant it continues for a natural duration even if the calf is removed, or maybe he meant it can continue on and on like that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted September 21, 2009 People will drink it from cows.. but not from beautiful breasts? I dont get that! When my partner was lactating I regularly used to get a bit of a suck. The taste takes getting used to...the colostrum was the best. IMHO, bovine aren't meant to be eaten. So it's no surprise to me that consumption of milk and cattle makes you feel bad. It's simply because your body is saying: don't eat from this source! I gave up bovine products - I must admit cheese is pretty hard and I often regress - but I feel so much better spiritually and bodily. BTW, the urge to give up was not a religious thing; more of a scientific thing, but now that I have given up, I am very sympathetic to the Hinduistic thought of regarding the bovine as sacred... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted September 22, 2009 but hindus also tend to consider dairy to be the greatest of foods. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
