AndyAmine. Posted June 25, 2009 I have something I would like to ask you all. I'm looking at finishing up my methadone treatment and have worked my self down to 3 options. 1) Straight detox from methadone, which means getting down to 30mg and then staying at a methadone WD centre reducing my dose 1mg a day. (very uncomfortable and destabilising but has the benefit of not having to get addicted to a new drug like Bupe and having to go through a horrible experience so that I don't want to do it again, FYI: generally speaking methadone does not fully 'hold' a person once under 40-30mg depending on the individual, personally my dose hasn't really held me since I dropped below 50mg) 2) Get to 25-30mg's and swapping to Bupe, then reducing as above but more than likely at home. (Involves going cold turkey for 48hrs before the swap, then up to a week or 2 of discomfort while it takes hold and the body adjusts as it is only a partial agonist. Also have the negative of becoming addicted to yet another drug which could have unknown repercussions. It has the benefit of apparently having a smoother reduction and it will hold a person more effectively at lower doses) 3) Ultra Rapid Opioid Detox (UROD) which involves pumping the body with Naltrexone for 12-24hrs. Has not been researched in depth yet compared to some of the other options and there is the chance that because Im on a long acting opioid I could still be in mild to severe WD's once the anaesthetic wears off. (although apparently this is 'rare') Potentially there are no physical WD's experienced after waking up but this can be seen as a negative as it can create the feels of not having worked for the detox making it easier to relapse or OD. Personally I don't think this will be to much of an issue for me as I have detoxed from opiates many times in the past and know what its all about. Anyway, Ill add to this later but I just wanted some opinions on what people think about these options and what they think is the best route or any alternative routes they know of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiral Posted June 25, 2009 I feel for you Andy..I don't know much about those detox avenues but I wish you all the best and hope that this may be the last time you ever have to go through the horrible ritual of WD's. I have my own little personal battle with them but not to the degree you have, and I'm simply using a very slow detox of very gradual reduction of intake and a very gradual uptake of walking and getting the legs some exercise...as a lot of the pain is around the legs etc I'm hoping it works and so far so good. good luck buddy and like I say may this be the last time you ever have to do it in your life. H. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psychoshaman Posted June 25, 2009 always managed to do it cold turkey (with the help of benzo, though i must say) never been on the methadone program, had it plenty times though and have heaps of friends on it the above are all good methods, but yeah for myself the cold turkey thing did wonders, it always reminded me never to get that far into the opiates ever again... and yes it's a bitch and it hurts (understatement) had a friend that went through rapid detox/naltraxene implants and he did OK for a while. also i read a book by Dr Beck called "Beating Heroin" it had a good detox program, can't remember the details but it was something like dissolving subutex in 2 liters of water and sipping on it over the course of a few days, so as not to precipitate withdrawal, in conjunction with some benzodiazepines all in the comfort of your own home (let me rephrase that ---just at home--- there is no comfort), it was a bit unconventional but it seemed okay to me, i'll see if the book is still lying around somewhere... good luck man wish you the best... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neoshaman Posted June 25, 2009 things like this it must frustrate you guys Kratom is illegal I have never experienced addiction to opiates although i have seen my partner have some withdrawals after being in hospital and havin to much morphine etc . Isn't Kratom really good for these kind of syptoms /opiate withdrawals I'm sure I've read that.Rapid detox I would much prefer the idea of an ibogaine ritual -stupid fucking government once again restricted GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR There is a book by Aliester Crowley called Diary of a dope Fiend I'm sure anyone battling such adddiction would find it an intresting read i'm happy to lend anyone my copy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
santiago Posted June 25, 2009 If your willing to look elsewhere over at the DF is a wealth of information on that particular topic, of particular interest i would recommend Richard Smokers posts as by far he is the best for looking outside the square in regards to this subject. For example just have a quick read of this post Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dc Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) My personal advice, stock up on a shit load of oxys or herion or something similar, stop the methadone, use the oxys or what ever you have to make life tollerable for the 2 - 3 weeks while the done gets outta ya system, then keep one dose of done left so you can detox from the other opiates. ill probably get ridiculed for this but it works for me. if i go nuts on methadone i dose with oxy until im not coming down from the done anymore, then once thats up i stop the oxy for a day and take 1 15 - 30mg dose of done and have no withdrawal at all. This is only going to work if you actually want to stop using by the way otherwise youll probably just have a bigger addiction. Edited June 25, 2009 by dc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted June 25, 2009 i vote post 6 t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faustus Posted June 25, 2009 3) Ultra Rapid Opioid Detox (UROD) which involves pumping the body with Naltrexone for 12-24hrs. this gets my vote as i've done a bit of research into it. plus all the other ones are just prolonging the misery. BUT it's also the easy option. the hard part will be: -avoiding your junkie friends and finding a new social group -throwing out all your drug-related paraphenalia -deleting phone numbrs of dealers -identifying the cues and situations that cause you to use opiates, and finding ways to deal with them when you face them. -finding something fulfilling to do with all the free time you have etc, etc. the road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom my friend, so i wish you all the best! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyAmine. Posted June 25, 2009 Thanks for the thoughts guys You know just having the SAB krew on my side makes all the diference in the world!!!! Yeah Ive thought about swapping over to a short acting opiate before detoxing, in fact there is a program in Mexico that swaps people over to morphine for 2 weeks before doing an Ibogaine treatment. This is because methadone has such a long 1/2 life that WD's can sometimes still be felt afterwards. In fact the consensus seems to be that Ibo therapy is best done when the person is actually opiate free or at a absolute minimum. I still don't see how swapping over to a short acting opiate and then still suffering WD's (lets not forget Ive been on 'done for nearly 10yrs) is better than doing a UROD and potentially not suffering at all though plus then I have to source these illegal drugs which puts me back in the loop for opiate drugs and getting busted. FYI: Methadone/Bupe is not provided in the QLD gaol system so a person has no choice but to go cold turkey in a prison cell. Plus, I am very sensitive to the opiate high and the shorter acting the drug the more likely you are to get a buzz from it. I dont need that re-imprinted on my brain just like I dont need the WDs re-imprinted either. Which brings me back to the whole 'you wont really appreciate it or not want to do it again unless you suffer' subject. Well, I fail to see how that applies for someone who has been through some extreme detox's in the past and who has been suffering WD's for the last 12 months since dropping under 50mg's Or the idea that if I did slip then I could OD but I would be getting a Nalterxone implant as well which lasts for 6 months so I couldn't get high if I wanted to. I guess what I'm really looking for is for some thoughts on why UROD isn't a better option of the 3 as I'm having trouble finding any? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyAmine. Posted June 25, 2009 this gets my vote as i've done a bit of research into it. plus all the other ones are just prolonging the misery. BUT it's also the easy option. the hard part will be: -avoiding your junkie friends and finding a new social group (done, moved interstate.. except for my psychedelic friends which most of may also have to go at some point as well) -throwing out all your drug-related paraphenalia (Yeah, still working on that.. damn its hard) -deleting phone numbrs of dealers (Done..) -identifying the cues and situations that cause you to use opiates, and finding ways to deal with them when you face them. (I will be going to spend 6 months in rehab working on these issues) -finding something fulfilling to do with all the free time you have etc, etc. (yep, Im working on this and hope that the rehab will also help with it along with many other things as being on opiates kind of freezes your life until your ready to pick it back up again.. this is why a lot of addicts in their 30's and above still act like they are 18yrs old (or whatever age it was that they started) because mentally in a lot of ways they still are) the road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom my friend, so i wish you all the best! Thank you my friend.. On a side note, how many of you think an addictions and treatments sub/forum would be a good idea? I guess it could bring about some negative attention but the the subject is covered so often here and is such an important topic, I really do think it should have a place of its own other than the Chill... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cactophyle Posted June 28, 2009 I would suggest a fourth option of maybe just getting down to 30mg a day and staying at that level for as long as you need. Then you can fade it out as slow as you want -- if your doctor will allow that. You can add low dose naltrexone to the methadone to help it fade out with minimal withdrawals. The docs would probably be very happy to know that you were so dedicated that you would take a daily opioid antagonist, and eventually you could build up to a higher dose of naltrexone that would block all opiate activity. That's what I'd do, but I wish you the best in whatever path you choose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 28, 2009 I always wondered what low doses of Iboga would do.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alchemica Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) All the best Andy, take care and I hope things go well for you. Don't have anything to really suggest that hasn't been mentioned but has anyone used loperamide (Immodium) to quell some of the physical withdrawal side-effects? Beta-blockers? http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/468657 Edited June 28, 2009 by Alchemica Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psilosophical Posted June 28, 2009 Thanks for the thoughts guys You know just having the SAB krew on my side makes all the diference in the world!!!! Yeah Ive thought about swapping over to a short acting opiate before detoxing, in fact there is a program in Mexico that swaps people over to morphine for 2 weeks before doing an Ibogaine treatment. This is because methadone has such a long 1/2 life that WD's can sometimes still be felt afterwards. In fact the consensus seems to be that Ibo therapy is best done when the person is actually opiate free or at a absolute minimum. I still don't see how swapping over to a short acting opiate and then still suffering WD's (lets not forget Ive been on 'done for nearly 10yrs) is better than doing a UROD and potentially not suffering at all though plus then I have to source these illegal drugs which puts me back in the loop for opiate drugs and getting busted. FYI: Methadone/Bupe is not provided in the QLD gaol system so a person has no choice but to go cold turkey in a prison cell. Plus, I am very sensitive to the opiate high and the shorter acting the drug the more likely you are to get a buzz from it. I dont need that re-imprinted on my brain just like I dont need the WDs re-imprinted either. Which brings me back to the whole 'you wont really appreciate it or not want to do it again unless you suffer' subject. Well, I fail to see how that applies for someone who has been through some extreme detox's in the past and who has been suffering WD's for the last 12 months since dropping under 50mg's Or the idea that if I did slip then I could OD but I would be getting a Nalterxone implant as well which lasts for 6 months so I couldn't get high if I wanted to. I guess what I'm really looking for is for some thoughts on why UROD isn't a better option of the 3 as I'm having trouble finding any? Well, females get methadone in jail. Fucking sexist govt The withdrawals of reducing are really nothing compared to going cold turkey. I kicked methadone 3-4 months ago and it's the best thing i have ever done. I don't see the point in dragging it on any longer than it has to, cos as you know it drags on for long enough as it is. Done withdrawals just fucking dragggg on. But it's all about frame of mind, and with your head in the right place you will come out the right side no worries. About the rapid detox- iv'e heard of people dying during this treatment due to the heavy stress put on the body. You will still feel a bit shitty when you wake up as well, you might want to look into PAWS(post acute withdrawal syndrome) if you are unaware of it. So you've been on the done for nearly 10 years.. just curious as to why you are chosing now to kick it when surely there would have been shitloads of opportunities in the past. What's changed? Why are you ready now? Don't get me wrong im all about kicking the shit as soon as possible but whichever path you take it won't be a walk in the park. Sounds like the withdrawals from tapering are getting to you, which they inevitably do over a long period of tapering so if i was you i would give the tapering a break, catch up on sleep and have some time feeling "normal" so you can get into a good headspace, then take the plunge and jump off the shit altogether. Tapering just makes an already long and draining process even longer, and gives you more opportunity to snap and fuck the whole thing off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted June 28, 2009 so if i was you i would give the tapering a break, catch up on sleep and have some time feeling "normal" so you can get into a good headspace, then take the plunge and jump off the shit altogether. Good advice imo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FancyPants Posted May 22, 2011 How did you end up going, Andy? I"ve been looking up UROD treatments because I think that's what will work best for myself. I also don't want naltrexone implants because I'll need pain relief at some point. I'm not sure they're going to find me suitable for that kind of treatment, being that I'm only hooked on codeine. I quit for months last year but started up again once I needed genuine pain relief and STUPID me kept using it unnecessarily which just got me hooked again my fault utterly. I've kept the dose down to about 180mgs which is significantly less than I was on before, but I just can't shake the last little bit which is why I want the UROD to just kick the bitch in the butt and get about my day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FancyPants Posted May 25, 2011 Yesterday I signed up to an in-house three week detox using subutex. Place looks nice and the ladies seem understanding and non-judgemental. I'm just waiting now for one of the private rooms to be available. I'm really excited and want to get it started :D CAn't believe the excess from my private health care is only $250, muuuuch cheaper than I was expecting. I won't be using the internet much so if I disappear for a little while that's why. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rabaelthazar Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) Good on ya, FancyPants. Best of luck. Edited May 25, 2011 by Rabaelthazar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FancyPants Posted June 11, 2011 Thank you so much, Rabael every wellwish means more than could ever be described. So I'm on a few hours of leave to come home to spend some normal time to practice getting used to new routines. Even if I relapse (as I'm certain to, considering particular medical conditions) I'm just so happy I'm learning the shit I'm learning in here, no matter how much or little any of it applies to my situation. Got somewhat pissy when the only doc who rubs me the wrong way wouldn't even bother getting curious about Ibogaine treatments, despite my asking out of pure curiosity from a professional standpoint. Wish I'd just sucked it up and done the rehab place the first time I wanted to get off; suboxone given appropriately with comforting meds sure beats the shit out of cold-turkey. Great place, great people, I feel far and away better in myself even ignoring the physical downdrag I'm well-past now, too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted June 11, 2011 Good luck FancyPants. I'm sure that no matter how hard it is, people here and in your life will be there to support you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
