Masterless Meditation and My Troubles

[No_One]

Hey Guys,

This is the artist formerly known as Shiva around these parts.

It's been a while since I've posted.

I'm in need of some help.

Basically I've been on a journey of deep self introspection now for what is to me quite a while (about 5 years).

Prior to this I was introspective but still played the part in the world I was taught to play i.e. I'd never read about Buddhism or Hindu Religion, I was just a student of life.

I've always believed in some sort of God/Higher power and have always felt close to Him/It - I've always looked for the Truth behind the lies.

Slowly but surely I'm stripping away bad habits in my thinking and way of life and things have been getting better for me inside but my outside world is turning and has turned to shit - the more I renunce the Western ways I've been programed to abide by the more strife I seem to find myself in.

I feel as though I'm able to intuite the Truth better than most people I've come across in my travels so far - I used to be afraid to speak it now it's all I want to do.

I have used drugs in the past to initiate/induce religious experiences or what I call "better" states of consciousness.

I'll admit I abused them for a point but I don't do that anymore.

The main culprates were MDMA, Speed and Cannabis with a dabble in DMT (one try), Mescaline/Cactus (one try) and Salvia (one try) aswell.

I'm in a position now where I have the government telling me I'm either Schizophrenic/Schizo-Affective or Bi-Polar.

I yearn to live my life without the vail society and civilisation choose to live under but external factors are stopping me from doing this.

My family (Parents) think I'm getting sick or am sick but all I'm doing is living life according to the Truth I've discovered along the path so far.

I haven't read much stuff about Buddhism but have just started reading some stuff that describes experiences I've had (unassisted by drugs), these experiences made me panic cause I wasn't on drugs when they happened and lead to two stints in psychiatric wards. They want to call them "episodes of psychosis".

They were beautiful experinces while they were happening but when I came out/come out of them I panic - it's like I reach some level of spiritual attainment then the calls of civilization beckon and I start stressing/getting the shits that I can't stay like that forever - it's like all my dreams have come true when it happens.

Has anyone had anything like this happen to them or can they relate to what I'm saying.

I need a Master or some sort of guide, I don't know how to live as an egoless spiritual being in a egocentric world - I'm being kicked from pillar to post and I don't want to go back to stooping to their level and beating their lies with better lies.

All I want to do is live and breath the Truth of REALity.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Peace.

[ThunderIdeal]

i'm touched by your story. i relate to much of what you're saying.

perhaps it would be better to be more inconspicuous, and avoid mental health diagnosis altogether? from the sound of it, you've sought this diagnosis during short periods of panic. the panic subsides but those diagnoses won't.

i admire that you attempt to live in this pure way, but it's very difficult unless you join a monastery or whatever. sadly you may (probably WILL) have to compromise and say to yourself 'i will lead a life of spiritual practise, but i will also work a job, rent a unit etc etc'

in dealing with the aftermath of such experiences, remember that nobody said you are entitled to have that experience at all times. i suspect that a rewarding existence here on earth depends is multi faceted, like the seven chakras, you have loftier realms and more grounded realms, ALL are part of the glorious whole. for one of those 'facets' to be subdued, you're whole is weakened, in other words do not try to avoid the down and dirty side of things because that's part of the life we've been presented with.

i'll wait for others to post but leave this one reassurance:

we AREN'T INSANE just because we experience altered consciousness without drugs

hope this helps in some small way

[holymountain]

hey dude thanks for sharing your story i think we can all relate in someway to what you are saying.

one thing i read a few years ago that blew me away was something stanislav grof wrote about how people don't get psychosis they just undergo what he calls 'spiritual emergencies' that is they experience states of consciousness similar to psychedelic experiences and they panic and seek help. often these spiritual emergencies are terminated by anti psychotics or other medication and instead of undergoing a spiritual transformation people are left half way through this process with the transformation incomplete and kept under the surface with medication. grof reckons if we just provided assistance and care to these people and let them go through these episodes they would emerge as a whole. when terence mckenna's brother dennis exhibted signs of severe mental issues during their infamous la choerra experiment everyone wanted to put him on a helicopter and take him to the hospital but terrence insisted that dennis remain in the jungle until it passed. sure enough it did and they both believe it was because he was allowed to go through the process rather than have it interupted and shut down. any way i could go on but you should check out stanislav grofs 'the cosmic game' it's an amazing book that helps make sense of many things spiritual across all religions and psychedelic experiences. for me it has been an important guide and means of understanding some of the experiences i've had. i'll even lend it to you if you promise to give it back one day.

in our society when people recieve visions or speak of spirits and energies we are likely to call them schizophrenic and lock them up. in wiser tribal societies they call these people shamans. we have no shamans in western society instead we have doctors who pump us with a range of medicaiton that cannot treat spiritual matters and that is why medical conditions such as schizophrenia puzzle us so much. we have no idea what to do with the spirit world.

you probably know all this already but thought it might help you out. can't recommend reading books highly enough. anything by stanislav grof or ken wilber. they make lot of sense and gently explain the unexplainable without the wacky head fuck theories that mckenna or robert anton wilson can spring on you.

peace and good luck.

[Chiral]

Might be best to remove your self from all or any of the negative influences around you so you don't have to cover up or lie or break your truth seeking mission. I really admire your passion on this one and wish you nothing but warmth and light and safe journey throughout the rest of your life on this plain of existence.

H.

[No_One]

Thank you so much for your replies.

It's good to hear this sort of stuff.

I'm on an anti-psychotic depot injection every four weeks to stop me "flipping out". This flipping out, which has happened twice now, feels more like the conquering of something I've meditated on/struggled with subconsciously/deeply for a while - something seems to click and it feels good and I don't know what to do, a new me is born - to an external observor it would appear to be weird but to me it feels natural and I want to be left alone as it happens.

This is what got me in trouble this time - my parents saw me acting weird and called the cops/ambos. As I said, I just wanted to be left alone to go through it. Retrospectively my set and setting weren't ideal (I'm living under my oldies roof).

I'm sort of worried facing up to more Truth will bring on these unpredicted experiences, I do what comes naturally to me and that now has me "in the system" i.e. on the radar of mental health - I can't not try and better myself, I can't let things go by the way-side.

It's hard for me to go "fuck this just live a lie like everyone else", it's worse when people think they're telling the truth but it's all a load of shit. At times it's intolerable and I get SO frustrated. I don't kinow what to do with myself - I bought the ticket and am taking the ride but I don't think this ride has an ending.

Keep adding you're 2 cents worth and thanks again for you're replies.

Peace

[t st tantra]

on one hand i say i have no guru........

on the other, my guru, i call guru maya........she is basically shakti dancing a personal dance through my life bringing me the experiences i need.........so i try to be philosophical about the experiences she/life/reality brings me............

medical science is in denial of the truth,they scare me.......giving them your truth is often against your best interests,imho.........'the truth,you cant handle the truth'jack nicholson,lol.

t s t .

[G*P]

Hi no one,

You need a map, my friend.

According to the sepiroth of kabbalah, you are experiencing Datth, or the abyss.

According to the tarot, you may have just left the fool card, and are moving into your own as the magician.

According to a deeply grounded practice of taichi or chigung, you are doing whatever you want to. lol.

Buddhism also has thousands of years of 'people who've already been there, and done that'. Great map Buddhism, unless you get lost in it like many do.

After one has learned true 'independence from the good opinion of others', there journey becomes clearer and clearer.

Now, if one was a student of yoga, and the chakras- i'd say your 'hittin the higher centres' buddy..

This is when I advise to keep your tongue to the roof of your mouth, and to practice grounding and rooting exercises- focusing on your legs, feet and pelvis.

Enlightenment is easy. Living enlightened is not.

I have gone through this with dozens of people, after going through it myself, and I have reduced it to these words:

"Magick or madness, you choose"

Either become a reality bending leader of gods and men, or choose the retarded life of medication, dependence and mental slavery- That is what some people, might say.

Edited September 18, 2009 by G*P

[coin]

any true realisation will generate understanding and compassion....

i'm just presenting a different view here....but maybe you're getting obsessed with your self, your enlightenment, and becoming a bit of a stuck up cunt who thinks he has some great insight above everyone else...the plebs around him.

i assume you're about 25...your parents are around 50....think of the "real" experience they have....having been through many different phases of life, raising a child/children, the sacrifices they've made, their own hardship, and coming to terms with life, the human condition, and everything else we all go through... etc. and they're just worried because they want you to be happy & healthy & productive. you maybe need a humble kick in the arse to grow up and show some respect instead of rambling on about how "everyone else" lives a lie, that "they're all" deluded...that "the government" delivers its diagnosis of your mental health (what does that even mean?).

everything you say indicates separation...it's you against everyone else....when you start to experience true growth, you will have experiences of unity and oneness, not division.

recognise that you're in an unstable state or a state of transition, and try to accept help where it makes sense...also, seek your own help ... find a counsellor or psychologist that is open to the way you think & understand the world. not because you're sick, but as a way of being proactive and moving ahead with your life responsibly, in the direction you want to take it.

living in a western society, and trying to reject the notions of that society will never help you....you have responsibilities that you need to adhere to, or else you're just another self-centred arsehole. spiritual transformation can be undertaken through embracing responsibility

if external factors are inhibiting your spiritual development....do some hard work and become independent...you can't get out of it unless you become a monk or something...but I get the feeling, you still wouldn't want to do the hard work - hours of meditation, study, cleaning, cooking, sweeping, community work, and probably hate the idea of conforming to the ideals of some religion. while you're doing this necessary work you'll probably find it best to lay off the speed & mdma and you might actually learn something about life, and develop more respect & compassion for others, instead of thinking that their sole mission is to prevent your enlightenment because they're blind to reality.

none of this would interfere with any true realisation/enlightenment

lecture over

good luck mate...like i said, just trying to present a side that hasn't been said.

Edited April 3, 2009 by coin

[Micromegas]

any true realisation will generate understanding and compassion....

What coin said.

I empathise with you No One.

But true understanding will not and should not alienate you from the good people around you; and despite the ontological differences you might have, most people are genuine and have good in their heart. They seek happiness over suffering and will generally do onto others and they would have done unto themselves. Your spiritually may force you to revaluate and change your own behaviours, but it will also give you the ability to see from many perspectives and live your life with equanimity. Then, in whatever you do, you can bring the truth forward as a silent and powerful motivation to do go work and set a good example.

This is where a "master" is beneficial - they have conquered the delusion of enlightenment and emerged from the other side to present their spirit clearly and without deviation. The work I have done with the plants would make very little sense (perhaps) without guidance I have received and the example set by my teacher, and from within the context of plants being teachers themselves.

Even now, when my "power" and "knowledge" begin to separate me from others, it is an immediate red flag that something in my truth is out of balance; that i need either to re-evalaute my understandings or ground that truth in a sense of togetherness with the earth.

My recommendation is to seek a teacher in the spiritual modality you are most drawn to, and find some space and silence to do so. Going into nature or to a monastery for a prolonged period is very different from this egotistical separation from others and allows you to expand, and then integrate, personal spiritual changes.

Remember that the idea of finding truth is to bring it down from the mountain, and express it in a way that is not inapproproately confronting to others and puts that energy into a world in need of change. You should not be acting weird in front of people if you can help it, or unless they understand the process you are in. To do so is not to respect and understand their personal space, or the cultural context you live in.

Finally, you are not an egoless spiritual being; rather, you are a spiritual being that has been given a body and an ego to manifest positive change in the world. There are times to explore egoless-ness, but much of your time you should walk proudly with an ego that is uncluttered and clear. It's "know thyself", not "know no-self", right?

You're obviously a really switched on individual with a good heart. And you will find the end of the tunnel. Psychologists etc. may be able to help you, and if you feel that is the way, then do that. But if your inner voice is telling you to go and chillax at a temple, do that. There are many in Australia that can help you out I would imagine, and many overseas that offer accomodation and training etc.

As for your parents, I wonder if you have had a decent chat to them about themselves, and your own process, in a way that is clam, sensible and undramatic. You need to demostrate that the truth you have found makes you a better person under all circumstances, and circumspect and compassionate in your dealings with others.

I wish you all the best there buddy.

[t st tantra]

i fear i will not express my self well enough but anyhow.....

as you know micro i am experiencing something like this,guilty as charged.

of course i feel alienated from people to whom i cannot say what is important to me,because i think it would be too much for them......my children,my siblings ,my parents etc

i relate very little to anyone who hasnt tripped.

i know i'm a human being but its something i have to keep reminding myself of......humans are that mass of animals who are fucking up the planet with the way they live........i feel little in common with them or their values.

but as i tried to explain to you recently,this is not what i want but this is the way i see things.

i would like to believe all people are well intentioned but if you truly believe that you are delusional....

recently it has seemed that this darkness may be my shadow.......

'the outsider' is a complex business,i have usually thought i was closer to the centre even though outside.

crowleys 'babe of the abyss'.....humanity throws its best into the abyss and if they return they bring new knowledge back for humanity.

i only really know my experience,i cant speak for anyone else.........

t s t .

[cosmosuperball]

Thank you so much for your replies.

It's good to hear this sort of stuff.

I'm on an anti-psychotic depot injection every four weeks to stop me "flipping out". This flipping out, which has happened twice now, feels more like the conquering of something I've meditated on/struggled with subconsciously/deeply for a while - something seems to click and it feels good and I don't know what to do, a new me is born - to an external observor it would appear to be weird but to me it feels natural and I want to be left alone as it happens.

This is what got me in trouble this time - my parents saw me acting weird and called the cops/ambos. As I said, I just wanted to be left alone to go through it. Retrospectively my set and setting weren't ideal (I'm living under my oldies roof).

I'm sort of worried facing up to more Truth will bring on these unpredicted experiences, I do what comes naturally to me and that now has me "in the system" i.e. on the radar of mental health - I can't not try and better myself, I can't let things go by the way-side.

It's hard for me to go "fuck this just live a lie like everyone else", it's worse when people think they're telling the truth but it's all a load of shit. At times it's intolerable and I get SO frustrated. I don't kinow what to do with myself - I bought the ticket and am taking the ride but I don't think this ride has an ending.

Keep adding you're 2 cents worth and thanks again for you're replies.

Peace

Your story is absolutely touching and I am drawing very personal connections with it, I have been through similar circumstances(such as being on an ITO) Getting a depot n all. I decided for myself that I didn't want the medication and talked my way out of it. I would love to meet you because I know that when i was going through these experiences it would have been nice to have people that were open to where i was at and willing to talk about and essentially give venting therapy who aren't going to take you back to emergency if you say something a bit out there. I would love to meet you but I am up a bit further north than you in Brisbane. If you ever make it up here It would be too hard for me to have someone who is an accurate reflection of myself and not want to give some positive energy.

[coin]

that's very well said t st

[mescalito]

Gee You Are You.

G.U.R.U

We all need guidance and when you're fortunate enough to make breakthroughs,don't own them,be humble and understand this knowledge is nothing new and is not an exclusive club.

Let the mojo work for you...it already knows what to do.

He he...there is no spoon

[Gunter]

To me, if you live in today's society and don't freak out or feel uncomfortable then there is something wrong with you.

I think you sound more sane than the average person, for example you have the ability to question your own sanity, this is sorely missing from the majority of the population.

Keep doing what you are doing in terms of pondering and thinking.

Breath deep and care about everything you do, but avoid any haste.

[t st tantra]

hey no one,hope its going better for you nowadays!

been thinking about ya......

t s t .

Edited April 13, 2009 by t st tantra

[Siggor]

Thank you so much for your replies.

It's good to hear this sort of stuff.

I'm on an anti-psychotic depot injection every four weeks to stop me "flipping out". This flipping out, which has happened twice now, feels more like the conquering of something I've meditated on/struggled with subconsciously/deeply for a while - something seems to click and it feels good and I don't know what to do, a new me is born - to an external observor it would appear to be weird but to me it feels natural and I want to be left alone as it happens.

Peace

it might be a personal experience that you would like to keep to yourself, just wondering what happens before you "flip out" and during your experience of "flipping out"

[immanuel]

,

Edited April 19, 2010 by mardybum

[Alchemica]

How are you going No_One? I've been thinking of you and hoping things are starting to work out!

I can relate to your post on many levels. I've been throught the same thing: diagnosis, forced treatment, a parent making the situation worse etc...

That said, I must congratulate you on being able to keep yourself so together with your posting... I couldn't at one time. Nice work.

Anyway, take it easy and feel free to PM me if you ever want to chat about things.

Edited June 4, 2009 by The Alchemist

[t st tantra]

last seen 5may.....didnt post anything here then.....youre in my thoughts too man......

t s t .