Ace Posted January 14, 2008 I thought I'd get off my bum and take some happy snaps of my grafted lophie that turned out to be slightly (well, very) verigated. At this point she is very healthy and happy and pumping out constant growth, though still yet to throw out a bloom (probably due being so happy just pupping!). I am hoping to get some of my trichs up to grafting standard so I can try to get some more grafted specimens (via pups) from this gorgeous girl. I believe the seed was originally sourced from the SAB shop, but my records were sloppy at the time, so I cannot be certain on the origins of the seed (it was definately from the shop or this community). While it doesnt have the trademark williamsii rib structure - see pic below for what I would deam a 'trademark' williamsii - (the verigated specimen and her sibling is more like a cross/hybrid IMO), it's sibling has thrown out fairly williamsii-like flowers (though the petals are a little longer and pointier, but still a nice pink colour). With time I hope to mass-propagate this girl so she can be loved by anyone who is decent enough to put her in a loving home (probably via swapnsell and/or ebay - time will tell). I am still getting the hang of grafting buttons to columns (only really used to seedlings>peres), so I will be doing as much research/practice as possible before getting stuck into it (I certainly dont want to come across unnecessary losses!!). What should be noted is that the verigated specimen turned out to be my very first seedling>peres graft. It just shows that anything can be found if you have a shot! Now get out there and give it a go! Enough talk - the pictures: Her sibling - or should I say 'brother' (note silhouette shape - not very defined on this angle, but the main button is much taller than in pic. Lets all laugh like little kiddies at my 'penis-cactus' ). Same seed batch, grafted at the same time. Had a mild run in with red spider mites, hence lack of lower areole 'fuzz': What I would deam as a 'trademark' williamsii. Note the defined rib structure and pattern: And why not add a pickie of my grafts thus far. Also a few peruvianus seedlings (there is one white spined and one short spined within the lot) and some seed grown lophs (including one that I had beheaded for my first loph>trich graft that failed due to rot, which has regrown a new head and even a pup). And a few other loph grafts and a few arios and a bridgesii to boot. Appologies for some blurriness in a few of the pics - damn camera has a mind of its own, I'm sure of it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Micromegas Posted January 14, 2008 Hey wow nice plants indeed, well done! How old are these? Is the idea with grafted plants to eventually have them grow on their own roots? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted January 14, 2008 Silly me forgot to look before uploading pics. I'll check when I get home, but from memory they (the verigated one and her sibling) were grafted early-mid last year (about 9-10 months). I think I might have made a thread or added to one about it (I might have a search if I get a chance). The others have been done since then and even a bridgeXscop and willie v. albiflora as recently as last weekend (not shown). Yes, grafting to pereskiopsis (the leafy looking stick underneath the lophs, shortened to 'peres') is only a temporary arrangement as they tend to go 'woody' after a year or two and then need to be regrafted to a more permanent rootstock such as trichocereus/cereus/echinopsis/etc or 'de-grafted' to form regular rooted specimens. If they are left on peres stocks, the scions tend to sit in suspended animation (or sometimes they will slowly die) due to the bond turning woody and a lack of nutes/water reaching the scion. With time and enough biomass I hope to get a nice little collection (of some several thousand, at least I will continue dreaming ) on their own roots, but first I need to graft this girl to buggery. The general idea of grafting is to get rapid and healthy growth fast; decreased time from seedling to flowering specimen (and thus more seeds); quick ID of seeds; increased biomass due to rapid growth; and another way to have some fun with cacti. If you havent got bitten by the cactus bug yet, I suggest getting hold of a San Pedro or some other columnar just to see how easy it is to grow them. They are very enjoyable to grow, but can require a huge amount of patience (hence my love of grafting ). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark80 Posted January 14, 2008 I would graft the main head above the pups to a columnar and leave the bottom to continue pupping, later harvesting them. I think for something like this you want number of plants not biomass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyAmine. Posted January 14, 2008 Nice work Ace, looking good!. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellonasty Posted January 14, 2008 Beautiful, top job Ace. About how tall was the Pere when you originally grafted it ? how tall is it now ? and how old was the seedling ? Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cycle Posted January 14, 2008 Awesome. dreaming of peres... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gilligan Posted January 14, 2008 (edited) dreaming of peres... dreaming of getting one of those varigated lophs!!! good effort ace, she's a ripper... Edited January 14, 2008 by gilligan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blangschpeer Posted January 14, 2008 Congrats Ace, that's one damn fine loph you have there! How'd those seeds I give you end up going btw? Hopefully you've had better luck than me, most of my seedlings got eaten by whiteflies... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Micromegas Posted January 14, 2008 If you havent got bitten by the cactus bug yet, I suggest getting hold of a San Pedro or some other columnar just to see how easy it is to grow them. They are very enjoyable to grow, but can require a huge amount of patience (hence my love of grafting ). Haha well I've certainly been bitten by the cactus bug (and the cacti themselves sometimes, but I've had my revenge ), but generally if it can't be stuck in the ground, left to it's own devices and go without water for the entire summer I give it a miss... that's part laziness on my part, but also practical for my climate... But these plants are so impressive it is just about inspiring enough! The reason I ask about growing them on their own roots is ultimately I'd love to set up some sort of microhabitat for lophs rather than having them all in their own pots or on grafting stock - something like a miniature texas desert or whatever - where they can form a community as naturally as possible. That's a long way off, however, first I'd need a whole lot of lophs and grafting seems to be the way to go... Plus, they're really beautiful plants you've grown! Micro Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted January 14, 2008 OooOOOoooOOooOOOooOooOo! PRETTY! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted January 14, 2008 (edited) Thanks for the nice comments everyone! About how tall was the Pere when you originally grafted it ? how tall is it now ? and how old was the seedling ? Peres was about 6 inches (15cm, 150mm) after the chop for the graft, top leaves removed for ease of cutting out new shoots; its still about the same size - the stock doesnt grow after grafting; seedling was a few weeks old, perhaps coming up to a month old. Doh! I forgot to check grafting dates this morning How'd those seeds I give you end up going btw? I am pretty sure I got a couple seedlings out of them, but I havent yet done much with them. Lack of peres action in my garden makes for limited grafting, but when I get some going and a bit more space, things should look up a bit. Bummer to hear about your losses... If I get a few of yours cranking, I'll send some back your way as a thanks something like a miniature texas desert I too have hoped to do something along these lines, but unfortunately my climate makes cacti a little useless in an outdoor patch (frosts...). Luckily most trichs are hardy enough to survive and even thrive, as well as a few others. Hoping to build a bit of a pergola or something out the back where I might try to create a little sheltered cacti garden Hope you continue with your idea - it'd be great to see more of Texan/Mexican landscaping in the harsh aussie environment I'd need a whole lot of lophs and grafting seems to be the way to go... Definately go the grafts with at least one or two of each seed batch if you can. That way you should end up with a good few on their own roots (more valuable and tend to look more natural) as well as some seed producing specimens for propagational purposes. Degrafting can be effective, but it can also be a long and often disasterous process. With time and experimentation, I hope to learn how to do it with minimal failures, but often rot will kill off my attempts. All a matter of experimenting with different mediums and temps, etc. All part of the fun, eh? Edited January 14, 2008 by Ace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
recondite Posted January 14, 2008 Beautiful Ace, thanks for sharing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fenris Posted January 15, 2008 How easy is it to increase the peres population? Can you cut the top off and re-plant? and will the root stock grow another tip that can be grafted on to? I have 3 peres at home and 20 loph seeds to germinate, could I cut a number of sections of peres from 1 plant to grow 4 plants from teh original rootstock? I need to get my butt into gear and try this grafting before the summer is over, this is truly inspirational stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted January 15, 2008 How easy is it to increase the peres population? Most people find that peres is a very weedy plant. I find it somewhat difficult, mostly due to space restrictions, heat and too much watering (mistakes made on my behalf with cuttings). To mass propegate your few cuttings, I'd chop them into 1-2 inch (~5cms) sections, let them callous for a day then plant in a sandy potting mix. Water and watch them form roots and throw out tips. Once the tips get to a usable height (usually about 6-8 inches - 15-18cm), cut off from the mother stock and root in appropriate containers (same as before, but kept whole instead of chopping). Once she throws out some new growth from the tip you know its rooted, so it can be used for grafting seedlings or small pups. I would like to (and already have done, to some extent) make pots full of peres whereby I always have some grafting stock (or access to shoots for grafting, and futher propatation pots). I think this is the most efficient way of growing them for grafting as you can have a dozen to each pot (about 20cm diameter). Have you read Teo's grafting book? One of the sections had a bit about cutting peres into sections with an areole on each (tiny pieces) and letting them root and throw an individual shoot from the single areole. This would be very efficient as you can assure a tip from each areole, not just a few like on a regular beheaded shoot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted January 15, 2008 (edited) Heres a couple links to Peres grafting for those who are still new to the game, or those who want to do some more research: Ace's grafting tek and pictorial - 'Pereskiopsis Grafting in a Nutshell' (found on second page) and info on general peres grafting. I believe this was my verigated specimen as a bub Teo's Grafting Book Two thumbs up from Acey EDIT: I believe this was my verigated specimen as a bub Cant remember for sure, but the dates seem appropriate going off my tek: Graft is labelled and dated for record. In this case, the seed was planted on the 19.03.2007 and the graft was made on the 28.04.2007. The species used as a scion was L. williamsii. Hope that answers some questions Edited January 15, 2008 by Ace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark80 Posted January 15, 2008 I have found that even cutting them and placing them direclty in water lets them root and grow. Chucking the freshly cut in soaked pottinfg mix works. I find keep them wet or at least really moist lets them root real easy. Mine is sitting in the flood waters were having and there growing like mad. I'd say cut off the bottom 2-3 inchs and root the top in potting mix. The top will then root and grow (this what you will use to graft) The bttom will throw out a shoot let this grow till its about 3 or so inchs. Cut this off and root it and let it grow till its 25 cm, cut the bottom 2 inchs off and root the top. This way you will continue to make mother plants, each of which will porvide the number of stocks as it has earoles. The orignial mother plant can then be harvested again. Peres like it hot and wet with lots of root space and a rich medium. I rooted some of peres cuttings in staright chicken poo (peleted stuff). This is how I started off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gilligan Posted January 15, 2008 My peres started from a few i got from Naja, and they are now going spastic. I have a tray in my cupboard that is potting mix only, and my cut offs just go into there, keep it moist and warm and you have a rooted cutting within 8-14 days. Then just wait til they get big enough (this is the time consuming bit), and chop the top off (either for graft or just to get your stocks bigger) and regrow as per before. I cut off the top inch or so of the pere for grafting, this goes straight into the tray. Even the excess shoots end up in here, they grow like wildfire. I've tried a few leaves, they root, but no growth yet (there is a topic on this somewhere) Currently i am growing a heap of straight ones for my next grafting effort, and i've still got a heap of other smaller ones that are being kept as 'mothers'. Not massive, but as long as you get a straight shoot, you can cut it and reroot, and they will reshoot. I find that they like seasol, it really gets them cranking... I also keep a couple outside, just in case anything happens to the 'mothers' these are my backups. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conan Troutman Posted January 15, 2008 WOOOT...nice werk Ace, put me down for a button when u do some prop Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellonasty Posted January 15, 2008 Thanks for the nice comments everyone! About how tall was the Pere when you originally grafted it ? how tall is it now ? and how old was the seedling ? Peres was about 6 inches (15cm, 150mm) after the chop for the graft, top leaves removed for ease of cutting out new shoots; its still about the same size - the stock doesnt grow after grafting; seedling was a few weeks old, perhaps coming up to a month old. Doh! I forgot to check grafting dates this morning Ace, My exprience with Pere stocks is different. I find the grafted stocks do grow, mostly in girth but also in height. I have photographs to prove this. I am doing a few little exprements regarding size of the pere stock to rate fo growth etc. Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted January 15, 2008 (edited) I find the grafted stocks do grow, mostly in girth but also in height I havent noticed this, but it could be possible. I had thought that the height would reduce somewhat, due to the scion often swelling so much that they 'roll' down the tip of the stock. The girth would be directly related to watering I think - more water = more girth + growth in scion, less water = shrivelling of stock/scion + diminished growth in scion. The supposed increase in stock height really has me wondering, how could it work? It'd be the equivalent of a beheaded specimen in a pot. There is no growth (or only very miniscule amounts) in the beheaded stalk's height, only new shoots are formed from that stalk. I could very well be wrong on this, but I have yet to come across such things. I'd love to see your photos - it would be very interesting to see how they have acted. I know people have talked about the stock growing 'into' the scion, but I find it is more the scion gaining so much mass that they tend to 'roll' over/around the join. EDIT: I checked it out this morning and the dates above are correct. The pics in my tek I believe are of the sibling (the 'penis-peyote' ), not the verigated specimen. Both were done around the same time. Edited January 15, 2008 by Ace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellonasty Posted January 16, 2008 Ace, The pics were pretty huge so I put them in my blog so this thread is less congested. VVV Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auntyjack Posted January 16, 2008 very nice ace...very nice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
