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planthelper

heimia salicifolia preparation

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Actually I did read the tek and the replies but otherwise duely noted. My apologies

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I had so many smart ass things to say but thought better of it :innocent_n:

I would think it works on the same principle as a cotton wool filter but the on PH used is a rolled up cloth

You put the plug into your funnel neck to filter out the solids a very effective way of filtering as you can alter the flow by how tight the plug is packed

Cheers

Got

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nexwa, i'm sorry too, it's just that, if people repeatedly say, heimia compounds are insoluble in water, it throws out the whole concept, of what i try to say here, with this methode.

obviously some compounds are soluble in water (after all it's the traditional methode, all i did was tweek it here and there a bit), and it's breath taking for me, to think, that's it's possible to get some crystalline yields from a plant just using water!!!

psylo, the shamans plug is rolled up toilet paper, don't pack it too tight or too loose.

this is a filter system you always have available...

i might add aswell that an impure compound is often far more soluble than, the pure chemo grade compounds. i don't know what this is called, but some chemist would know what i mean.

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small update!

i harvested some heimia yesterday morning, and i can say, it's a good idea not to rush the process, in the begining,... you know why?... to give the insects ample time to escape!! :)

anyway, the weather has turned bad, and there is no sun, so i plan, to freeze one halve of the material, till the sunn shines again, and hot water extract the other halve. and later i can take a comparesment of the two methodes.

the heimia resin which had formed dendritus crystalls on the plate, was re disolved in a small amount of water,

and put away in a small vessel. nothing else was done do it, when i inspected the material after evaporation, it was filled out, by 3 dimensional crystalls of a very spikey nature!!! in a nut shell redisolving, produced better crystalls.

Edited by planthelper
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Interesting little thread PH I played round with hemia in its natural states a fair bit certainly has some effect when the plant is smoked IMO although i was using a fairly seeded mix so was a bit like popcorn also, very curious to know if anyone has biossayed the extract I know you said back in October you had not had the chance any updates since or has anyone else used the tek and done biossay

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update!

the last extraction, did'nt go aswell as the previous.

because of bad weather, and probably my own lazyness, i left the material for too long in the water, and once i evaporated the goo, some fungus appeared on the plates.

i removed the fungus, and re heated the syrup, but the fungus naturaly returned, this aswell happend, because i used only small evaporation dishes, meaning surface area was too small for a quick evaporation.

anyway, fungus problems can be a 100% avoided, using big evaporation dishes, and keeping the quanteties of syrup to be evaporated to a certain minimum ( evaporate just a bit of liquid, and than re fill the plate, and repeat, instead of trying to evaporate a large ammount of liquid in one go).

as mentioned before, this will aswell increase the chance of crystalls.

the resin produced, is highly hydrophillic, in dry weather, it dries out nicely and forms surface crystalls, but when it rains, the crystalls disappear and the resin, reverts to goo.

watch this space, because hopefully, i will soon be able to post pic's about, my VERY WELL STRUCTURED CRYSTALLS, obtained from working with heimia & water only!!!!!

you know the german reinheitsgebot (german beer purity law)? under this law, beer can only contain,

water, barley, hops and yeast.

http://en.wikipedia..../Reinheitsgebot

i guess, there could be a similar distinction, for all ethnobotanical preparations, because, some people in our field are chemophobics.

in other words, some people say, aya is save and good, but pure dmt is not,

coca chewing is save and good, but coke is not, so i wonder, how those people would react to semi pure materials (crystalls) manufactured only with the use of water......

late edit: added the word yeast.

Edited by planthelper

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very curious to know if anyone has biossayed the extract

finaly, i tested the material.

i'm light weight, generaly most herbs effect me much stronger than other people....

a few day's ago, i placed a halve of a green pea sized, ammount of resin in my mouth and did let it "melt", nothing happend.

yesterday, i tried a pea sized ammount, but i swallowed the gum, after a few seconds.

i expected again nothing to happen, but, it came on quite strong, after just 6 or 8 minutes.

the sensation was mostly, in my head, and felt a bit like when you take valium.

it was so strong that, i would not have risked it to, operate machinery, or drive a car.

a bit later, it felt like it was spreading out aswell, into my limbs.

both times the resin was taken on an almost empty stomach ( only 2 cups of coffee, 2h before).

but the second time i had aswell already drunk, two glasses of ginger beer.

my wishfull thinking, was that maybe the ginger beer, potentiated the effects, but this is probably unlikely. this resin was produced, using the traditional methode, i still have to test the material, which i produced, using the stove (multiple, simmer and short boil, and than turned off the heat).

after a hour of so, after indegestion, i decided to go for a walk, so i would "freshen up",

and when i came home, i realized, that i had left my gate wide open, and i hardly ever forget to shut the gate....

tantra and auxin, promoted the benefits of this herb, specialy as an aid to overcome benzo withdrawls,

i think, it helps with any type of withdrawl.

i had a little bit the urge, do dose up again, but didn't, so i wonder about the addictive potential of this material.

if any member has an opinon on how much habit forming this herb can get, than i wouls like to hear about it.

feedback in a nutshell: WOW!

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here is the pic, i promised a long time ago.

it depicts, WELL DEFINED HEIMIA CRYSTALLS, produced by only using water!!!!!!

post-70-0-06978500-1327711007_thumb.jpg

late edit:

the diametre of the jar is 50mm, so you got an idea of the scale of this x-talls!

Edited by planthelper
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After reading this entire thread you sir are awesome and those crystals are something you should be proud of using just water. I wonder if there is a way to clean the product naturally?

Given the traditional method was to leave the 'wilted leaves' in a glass to ferment in the sun for 24 hours (to absorb the knowledge of the sun), to then drink it (nothing was said about removing the leaves so I have to assume in the traditional methods the whole lot was consumed), it would make sense that it would be inactive if trying to absorb sub-lingually but active when consumed. So MAO's don't nullify its effects but the chemical doesn't have the right properties to pass through the tissue in your mouth.

I find this herb, given the natural crystalline formation from evaporation, very very interesting....

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i used this tek and ended up with a thick resin that is pretty good :)

it was probably because I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to plant extraction / preperations but I am slowly learning.....thanks planthelper next couple of times i plan to get crystal :wink:

also torstens talk at ega with (i cant remember the natrupaths name) really helped me understand things a bit better!

now i just have to wait a lil long so i can harvest some more heimia.

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In private conversation with planthelper the topic of precipitation of a freebase came up and for the fun of it I did a quickie 5 minute test, I thought I'd share the results here for the sake of others.

First, background:

In responce to the above mention of lime precip I was all like

my immediate thought would be to say lime precipitation could sensitize the phenol moeities to oxidation and hydrolyze the lactone ring forming the calcium salt of the hydrolysate.. perhaps sodium sesquicarbonate, previously boiled sodium bicarbonate solution, a light dose of sodium carbonate, or a regulated amount of ammonia after tituration would be the go for freebasing if your gonna try that. And then maybe store it as a citrate salt... after the requisite attempt at smoking Heimia crack :devil:
See, too strong of a base can make the alkaloids in Heimia sp. act as acids, and stronger base still (or pretreatment with acid) can turn the alkaloids into new compounds which are always able to act as acids below pH 7 (some alkaloids such as heimidine and lythridine could also be dehydrated into cryogenine and lythrine, respectively). Anyway, more chemmy info [Here], back to fun-time chemistry mess...

So not knowing if ammonia, sodium sesquicarbonate, or baking soda would be the go I brewed up some Heimia myrtifolia cured foliage tea in the microwave:

post-146-0-12497700-1329183875_thumb.jpg

Pretty yellow like the sun.

Then to the left I added a few drops of 1 M (household cleaner strength) ammonia and to the right I added a bit of bicarb, now the tea was still warm so some bicarb would have converted to sesquicarb. Baking soda is a delicate critter so this could be different if ice cold or boiling hot. The ammonia tube turned dirty yellow brown but the bicarb tube turned fluorescent yellow with chunks of precipitate :) I centrifuged them and some of the precip sunk but most floated.

post-146-0-10171800-1329183884_thumb.jpg

The fluoros in my lab didnt combine well with the nearly blinding fluorescent Heimia alkaloid mix so I got another pic of the bicarb tube to show the bit that sank:

post-146-0-46691300-1329183894_thumb.jpg

So its resolved. Bicarb added to warm Heimia tea will crash out a precip but ammonia seemingly will not.

It also affords the possibility of adding a touch of bicarb to an extract meant for smoking to freebase the alks in the Heimia tar, but I dont know if ones lungs would be appreciative of the carbonate residues.

Edit: what the hell.. pics didnt get added on first attempt, lol

Edited by Auxin
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you are a master, auxin! :)

btw, even my latest preparation, displayed a few crystalls (only on very dry days though) so i conclude that it is almost impossible "not to end up with some sort of crystalls".

brainstorm list:

centrifugal force can be used to further purify a water only preparation.

the shorter, you soak the material in water, the purer the end product will be, but the yield will drop.

theory being, the pure compounds will come across first.

i think spring flush growth, produces better material, than when you pick again later in the season??!

Edited by planthelper
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Gidday there folks! It took me ten years to learn to grow the stuff! Made some great contacts - they explained:-

yeah! it grows in deserts, but along watercourses! Now it companions my Acorus around the Water lily pond and I got the glorious Sinicuichi - Little Daughter of the Sun! Here's East Mexican story of it - very beautiful:-

THE LEGEND OF THE SINICUICHI

The Great Father Sun God, after man's Creation saw that His special children were left to a miserable existence struggling in the darkness that existed then. Only darkness existed then because the Great Father Sun lived with His Wife Mother Earth Goddess and all the Ancestor spirits.

Even knowing the terrible agony of it, the Great Father Sun God knew He had to tear away from the Earth, the Moon, the Spirits, even Mankind, and carry the burning orb of the Sun up and across the sky every day. He would feel the agony of His godflesh searing, the effort of His labor exhausting His Omnipotence daily - doing so for His children, mankind, to enjoy the miracle of day.

(Sozz to break the spell but Aztec concept of a God who would sacrifice Themselves for His Children could have made them pre-accepting of certain Spanish Catholic doctrine. At the time of the story their gratitude to Huimtol was in human hearts, His Divine Thirst slaked with blood - not with humility for everyday we enjoy this lovely life!)

And so on the First Day of Creation the Father Sun God gave farewell forever to His most fertile Wife, other Spirit rellies, climbed the last lonely mountain to push up the Sky and let Man stand.

As He pushed off and His Flesh caught Fire His suffering was unimaginable. But light streamed from Him and life was given to all things. His Great Sacrifice not in vane - for the Spirits took their positions and Creation Beheld His Glory - the Turquoise Field of the Sky Spirits. His Sweat gold. The tears of His wife, the Faithful Abandoned Earth, turned to silver. His children, the Aztec, forever in daily debt.

But - to His Shame - the pain was so great He cried one single tear. As He left that tiny drop of His Sacred Fluid fertilized, for the last time, the Goddess Mother Earth instantly giving birth to the last little girl daughter of Creation.

As the Divine Couple's last she would have great place, but her cute chubby baby face flower smiling up at her Father eased His suffering greatly.

Even though He had to go through the same suffering the next morning, He knew He would see the gorgeous face of His newest darling daughter - the Sinicuichi - again encouraging him - opening her yellow happy face for Him.

Now you tell me one daughter's father who would not be touched by that story! It's gorgeous isn't it?

I shall do some artwork on that theme for a plant pot label you can print off and attach to gifts for Father's Day.

"Sini" means "of the Sun" - "Cui-chee" is a affectionate pet name for any cute little kid. Compare it to "koo-chee" as in The Mighty Diamonds song "Pass the Koutchie to the Left Hand Side" (NOT that mutilation cover of the song "Pass the Dutchie")(OK pedants:-Tonatiuh (Sini) yxiuh - the prefex 'y' is feminine)

So Sinicuichi - Cute Little Daughter of the Sun. Big motif in their artwork - nurseries, etc. "happy face" generally.

WHAT DO YA DO WITH IT

It's use was mostly amongst the teenage boys who (modern day parents will marvel at this wisdom) were taken off their mothers and banded together around puberty and raised, at distance, from the women and civilised society in general until manhood - real manhood, that is (all traces of childish macho ego purged out "ritually"). Under adult supervision they climbed, dived, chased game, checked traps, etc. and graduated to "scout" bands of ambitious, quarreling juveniles given "important missions" as far away as possible, survival of the fittest etc. They weren't trusted with anything more potent than the Sinicuichi they could gather and drink like lite beer/cordial as you will - keeping them jolly, alert and not inebriated.

I'll talk about other herbs later, but there is a lot of confusion about the term "ferment" - especially in all the source lit. about SInicuichi, I've read it. From thread above I see that problem, but thanks folks, it saves me starting one called:-

SINICUICHI - ATLANTIC KAVAKAVA

Take a 2L clear plastic bottle with lid. Fill with good drinking water at room temperature. Do not use chlorinated water straight from tap. The water must be fit to sustain life i.e. a goldfish could live in it.

Strip fresh leaves - must be fresh - about 10 to 20g and put in clipseal plastic bag. Give the leaves a little brusing and place them in the water above, with a little air as possible and seal the bottle with the lid. Place in a warm place, but certainly in the sun if possible.

Keep the leaves as "alive" as possible. That is don't expose to temperatures above 40C, extreme UV,etc. I noted that most processes posted above destroyed the necessary enzymes, right at the beginning. No boiling, no chemicals, please! Just pure herb, good water and natural sunshine.

The leaves initally sink, then darken, soften and begin to rise. The "ferment" may take 24hrs to appear as a small amount of foam about the leaves - but that is all it is. After 78hrs it is complete, taken a topaz to straw colour and should be chilled before serving (strained of the leaves of course!)

Very refreshing and aromatic in its own right - I found it a welcome and easy change to afternoon beers (now that is saying something!) Faintly bitter, nicely complex, surprisingly good "mouth" and a cheery yellow colour, I was enjoying my second litre when I realized I had been enjoying the breeze, light, the moment, without thought or selftalk for some twenty minutes.

I continued to enjoy the natural sense of wellbeing, I liken to something GABA mediated, for some hours.

Continuing for a few days - enjoying the sobriety - I'd see it as an oeirogenic that is, like kavakava etc., unless you relax and set your mind through to that pathway, you won't get much out of it. The slightest disturbance and you're completely awake and unaffected by it.

I enjoyed some with a Great Songman I'd impressed terribly with cactii the night before. A day fishing and singing together, I was delighted to offer him a few cold glasses at home. Agreein/g to its remarkable taste, he declared it a treat, but after twenty minutes relaxed utterly and was soon asleep! I'd shared as much, felt the elation of about one beer, but wasn't the least affected to get some chores done and dinner on.

He rested well, my good friend, and after his nap pronounced it a fine tonic indeed! He insisted I teach him and he took a huge potted specimen back to his country - planted in a very honorable place too!

Crushing sets off the catabolic reactions terminating to alkaloid - that bound to sol.pectins, action of pectinase, protease are disgorged by osmosis. Don't go pHreaking lactones - it looks very -enolizable - I dare say hanging on by its Van der Waal forces to that sec.N!

Check it out in 3D - 2D is very distorting. Check out the resonance along that chain! Quantum enchanting, isn't it? (Calcium? Out of the question.)

So what can I say about a legend of a plant! Praise be the Creator Spirit - Blessing us with the Sinicuichi!

Hope this is enough information to get you good people going and enjoying this wonder of Nature you've all worked hard to produce! Don't go drinking any of those yucky things I see above - bless you all.

Edited by Pat Uri
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Not sure about the specific melting points but wikipedia says to use cold water for the fermentation process, you may end up losing or disrupting the balance of alkaloids by using water that is too hot. Either way, that extraction is very black, perhaps it can be cleaned up with ethanol.

Edit: Read more of the thread, I see you only want to use water perhaps to keep with tradition... fair enough.

Perhaps a change to DI or distilled water might yield a cleaner product.

Edited by WitchDoctor
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No. The term "ferment" means there are "living" enzymes in the plant that need to work on it for a while. Boiling, or adding chems, would produce the same affect if you boiled, or added chems, to home brew wort AFTER you pitched the yeast in.

It would kill the yeast - no reaction.

I'm not saying it's yeast on the plant - its the enzymes in the plant.

Many herbs need fermentation to cure and develop alkaloid. Along with other factors there may be none until you do! Dried coca leaf anyone?

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Hmmmm,

well normally I am a total purist when it comes to using any plant as an individual substance, seperate from other plants, and normally I would have looked up the most traditional method, and followed it, and done nothing else, but with Heimia, (I have only tried it as a dried herb), I first left heimia plus a eucalyptus lozenger for the oil in it, and a small amount of alchol to kick start the processes, in a jar of purified water for 24 hours in the sun, then put it on the stove briefly, and boiled the pot dry, then added more water, and drank that. It had the ear hole effect for sure, but I don't much like my earholes being messed with, so I don't really want to do it again now, but I did also try the dried leaves in another combination, mixed with: mexican dream herb, and a few more eucalyptus lozengers, and a little alcohol again, some mucuna, and grated daikon radish. Same deal, left it in the sun for 24 hours, then cooked it, and boiled it dry, twice, (added water, and boiled that dry too, in fact two of my saucepans are still scarred as a result of the burning, as I charred all the leaves and radish . . . got to have good timing to reduce pot risk), then with the liquid from the third time I boiled it dry, I drank half, (tasted great by comparison to unburned heimia), and added chocolate and coconut and sunflower seeds, and flour to the rest, and cooked it briefly, and wound up with loads of very small nasty tasting chocolate brownies, that worked a treat.

But as I say, I didn't much like the ear hole effect, and found it was almost entirely only a feedback loop of me myself. Which isn't good for the hearing.

Edited by curaezipirid

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Grand history! It's relation is purple loosestrife. Germanics and Druids gave it that name "loose-strife" literally in its use as an anxiolytic lit. to loosen from 'strife' stress. American tradition got lost with smallpox.

"Tradition" - no - recovering a method that works - yes.

Fondest Regards to all.

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They don't look alike - so how the two cultures developed the same ideas suggests some real long history!!!

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I like how his "something similiar to the traditional preparation" involves using an oven and a microwave :)

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