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Need advice on discriminatory attack

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Well if i were to walk into a shop dressed in medievil armour ,carrying a sword the police would just shoot me. Some people just have to make a statement about WHO they are, and well then they will suffer the consequenses .

So true, I am also "kinda" on the shop keepers side.....

I am sure we all know that the Shop keeper refused to server her not because he thought she was a security risk.........

(sounds like the shop keeper was doing a small protest against Muslim women oppression)

But when it comes down to it... wearing a veil is still a extreme security risk and Muslim women will have to accept that, we cant have people in full length veils and face covers entering a bank.

Its perfectly ok for them to wear what ever they choose but they still have to abide by our "social rules".... and wait outside with a mask on.

Theres no grounds at all for Discriminatory Imo,

Edited by vual

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What would you say whilst looking at Uluru?

That is the spiritual hub of Australia,the Ninja need to get with the program and assimilate.

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Ok well from reading half of your posts, the most of you are talking about what I would've done or If i was the store owner or IF he was being racsist, HOWEVER by using what information is given to US. The CLEAR CUT CASE IS, as a store owner and retail seller you have every right to NOT allow the selling of your product to any ONE person, for whatever the hell reason you feel. Yes everyone in the public has the right to come in and look but as soon as your asked to leave or told you cannot purchase anything in that store. THE OWNER does not "HAVE" to stand there and give you a reason, if he feels threatened or doesn't like the look of you whether or not you are from his country or some other country is beside the point. He has the right to decease the selling of any of his products to you immediately at any one time. He can sell to your wife, he can sell to your husband, but if he doesn't want to sell to you, tough luck. However if he / she was making racist remarks to you in your face. Then he is liable by law depending on what country your in and what laws they have against racism. Also it is stated by most organisations that if you enter a complex with your helmet, cloths / clothes covering your face you wont be served and or you will be asked to remove it.

From a non BIAS point of view, the owner will win any court case if it is taken that far due to it being an absolute security risk, and him having the right to not sell to any one person at any one time, and the ladies face being covered, doesn't matter if you come from overseas guys, this is Australia and we have laws to protect us when in a business.

I would kindly suggest the lady starts to adopt the Australian way of life or she will find it very hard to purchase anything in the future with a masked face.

Conclusion is the lady has no grounds to stand on once the recording shows her face covered.

Kind Regards,

Arieon

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I was once a store owner and on a few occasions have refused to serve or asked people to leave. A store owner has full "Right To Refuse Service" and is "signed" in some stores.I refused entry to a person who was not "Anglo Saxon". Not because of their race,but because they were intoxicated.

On refusing this person entry they began a barrage of racist remarks as to my race "WHITE" And accompanied with a string of profanities.The police were called and the person was charged with trespass.I asked the Police officer what i could do about racist charges as well? ( they were totally offensive and felt i had a right) The Officer Laughed and said "yeah right, Best of British in getting that to stick" So i concluded from that, there seems to be a law for Whites and another for non-Whites. Please I am not making a racist remark here.Just an observation.

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I was once a store owner and on a few occasions have refused to serve or asked people to leave. A store owner has full "Right To Refuse Service" and is "signed" in some stores.I refused entry to a person who was not "Anglo Saxon". Not because of their race,but because they were intoxicated.

On refusing this person entry they began a barrage of racist remarks as to my race "WHITE" And accompanied with a string of profanities.The police were called and the person was charged with trespass.I asked the Police officer what i could do about racist charges as well? ( they were totally offensive and felt i had a right) The Officer Laughed and said "yeah right, Best of British in getting that to stick" So i concluded from that, there seems to be a law for Whites and another for non-Whites. Please I am not making a racist remark here.Just an observation.

I don't see what you have said as a racist remark as I have also experienced this type of reverse racism. In this day of political correctness that is now way out of control many in the majority are fearful of speaking their mind or standing up for what they truly believe in on the off chance they may wind up facing a verbal backlash, a punch in the head, a legal bill or worse, jail. I don't know what's right or wrong anymore. I'm told to respect all people from all walks of life but I don't often see them respecting me or the ideals that have been hammered into me since I was a boy. Maybe it just boils down to this is our tribe, this is how we live! There are other tribes that may fit you better if our's doesn't. Is that wrong?

Hutch :wink:

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question i am in america i found a reputable website that sends already made aya.. thruough the mail. does any1 have advice about the risks involved. what are the consequences...any loopholes?

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Um Tultuck09 a bit off topic for this thread ?

You should know or look into the laws of your country on the subject , i doubt you will find anyone here who would suggest breaking any laws or giving advice on how to do so

Maybe think about or look into traveling to a country where it is legal

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Social justice :

is the concept in which a subjective notion of justice and/or equality is achieved in every aspect of society, rather than the administration of law. It involves a greater degree of economic egalitarianism through progressive taxation, income redistribution, or even property redistribution, policies aimed toward achieving that which developmental economists refer to as equality of opportunity and equality of outcome.

Liberal multiculturalism :

focuses on cultural diversity, celebrating ethnic variety, and teaching tolerance. It assumes the existence of pre-existing cultures, which relate to, and interact with, each other, but does not examine the hierarchies of power underpinning these interactions. This approach has been criticized for ‘Disneyfying’, commodifying, and depoliticizing difference (Mitchell, Antipode 25).

Critical multiculturalism :

sees multiculturalism as concerning ‘majorities’ as much as ‘minorities’, and is concerned with the institutions and practices forming the whole society. It sees inequalities of power, and racism, as central, emphasizes recognition and rights, and advocates the ‘multiculturalization’ of society (Jackson, Geography 87).

rac⋅ism

[rey-siz-uhm]

–noun

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Lastly... in response to Greencavefloats article post, what is the last line of the article suggesting? i.e.

'Drivers are also trained to search around and under their vehicles and how to evacuate a vehicle quickly if the need arises. '

How does that have any relevance to the rest of the story... I'm sure they train drivers to change flat tyres and mop up spew too however they mustn't have felt that fitted with the story for some reason hmmmmm

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i just dont understand why some australians think it all ok to be walking around with these full face coverings,i couldnt give a shite what religion someone is but in our society,covering ones face carries with it all kjnds issues,i know when western women visit islamic countries they are advised that they should conform to certain standards of dress,just like some of the more extreme christian churches,in these islamic countries it is often safer and wont attract unwanted attention(google what happened to a western women journo during the reporting of the egyption democratic protests,think hand rapped by many,many men,for half an hour ,she required hospitalization after!!!!,a bit off topic but i believe highlights islamic attitudes towards women).i just simply believe if we need to conform to their standards in their countries than they should have to in hours,full face veils are not an indiginous custom nor a custom of the general populace of australia,personally i find full face covering by anyone with maybe the exception of private dress up parties for lol eg creepy,it makes me feel uneasy, and generally in our society it means you are hidin something,obvious,...but if i went to an islamic country with say ,my wife,i would expect the both of us to conform to their standards,why is this such a terrible thing to state,im not racist and have friends from aus indigenous,two cousins half chinese,asian friends and yes muslim friends as well.we do have what would be called australian standards and i believe full face veils are not one of these customs or standards,recently a sikh man wanted permission to not ware a helmet whilst riding because he cant wear his turbine underneath,seriously,sometimes religious expression just flies in the face of what is sensible.

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I wish I had the right to remain anonymous, to wear a mask in public. However we don't have inalienable rights here in Australia, we have laws preventing us from doing certain activities instead.

Just because your culture teaches you something is right, doesn't mean it is. Right is relative anyway...

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Unless cops stop filming protestors, I am in full support of keeping the burqa legal.

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And why exactly does anyone feel uneasy not knowing the identity of someone walking across the street who they probably don't know or care about knowing anyway?

People also get paranoid when other ethnicities talk in their language. That it's their language and that's how they talk doesn't factor into the equation, if they're talking in my vicinity and I don't understand them it must be about me... I'm paranoid so it's all about me!

I don't know hardly any of the people I'm talking to here in person... maybe they're all out to get me, goddamn anonymity!

Edited by The Dude

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I don't know about the government having a say in what people wear. Australia's a multicultural society, and it's insensitive to their ideals to demand that a woman expose herself if she is quite happy to remain shrouded. Don't think that all muslim ladies are oppressed by their tyrannical husbands and forced to wear such garments. To many its a sign of their respect towards faith (as misguided as some of you might think Islam is).

Now what if it was demanded that all the alternative guys with long hair and beards chop their locks ?

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i think it's always going to be viewed as a form of oppression and case-by-case it's hard to have any idea whether their will is free or subjugated.

personally it's more an issue of double standards. i've only been successful once walking into a shop without being asked to take off my motorbike helmet, which has a clear visor. so even though my face is visible and theirs isn't, my form of headwear like the stocking in the above chasers vid, seems to say "i'm hiding my identity so i can commit crimes".

i am surprised no banks have been robbed using burkas. aside from being able to conceal a large weapon, you also don't raise any suspicions before or after unless somebody knows a crime was just committed in a burka. if you were a balaclava, anybody who sees you knows you just did or are about to do some serious shit.

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... Which "Australian Way of Life" do you mean ?

...the Australian Way of Life that allows it's woman a much greater degree of equality than many islamic nations. (keeping in mind its pretty easy to argue that even in Australia's supposedly liberal society women dont really get opportunities equal to men yet.)

I actually think there is a fundamental problem with the concept of Multiculturalism. Multiculturalism has served Australia well for a century, but it needs to adapt to the times. We have welcomed large populations of immigrants from Italy, Greece, SE Asia, China, India and Arabic nations and we are a richer society for their inclusion. But I mean, multiculturalism has worked in the past because these communities of people were happy to come here, set up their own businesses, raise families, live their lives and enjoy the peace so to speak. Where you get a problem is if you welcome someone into your society who 1. Thinks it's ok to oppress women and 2. dislikes your particular brand of society and is going to preach hate.

How can you say, 'Welcome! Bring your culture and your beliefs and live among us!' if that person's belief is 'You are a degenerate society, Im going to teach my children to hate your society and women are inferior.' Such beliefs are fundamentally at odds with the principles of the liberal society that welcomed them in the first place...

So I think there should be expectations of people coming to live here. 'You are welcome to come here and enjoy the relative freedoms of Australia, but dont expect to be allowed to oppress women or run your own schools that teach backwards middle ages doctrine. Your children will be educated in schools which will abide by a state regulated curriculum... Oh and dont expect to be allowed to extract DMT even though its much less harmful than say alcohol or cigarettes :) ...Oh and by the way we have some good political cartoonists here, and dont get all thingy if someone draws a funny picture of some make believe dead guy who is supposedly the pillar of the universe. Such a cartoon would be best interpreted as a 'joke' and u should treat it as such, rather than as a call to bloody Jihad on western society.'

The 200-year-old one of post White Invasion, or the 100,000 year old Australian way of life that the former has all but decimated. What the fuck right do any of us have in saying which cultures should or should not be here in this land when the short history is that of violent invasion ? Muslims haven't settled here by force, have they. Or perhaps you haven't considered that in your "Australian" way of thinking.

All I can say to that is, I dont believe in generational guilt. Australian society today has very different attitudes to those of the early settlers.

Fuck I hate anti-islamists.

I wouldn't call myself anti-islamic. I think all the major religions are equally ridiculous. If Islamic people want to subscribe to that particlar bed time story then thats their choice, although if they come to live here they should expect to be challenged with rigorous, science-based arguments like '...ere, if god is so great... then 'ow cum he put dregs in beer, ai???' etc.

Footnote:

Im not some flag waving nationalist, far from it. And I am certainly not a fan of small-minded, white Australian boganism (us against them mentality). Australia is an incredibly fucking restrictive place in lots of ways, but I think in this case our relatively liberal attitudes to equality should not be compromised.

Edited by Doopie sp.
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Multiculturalism has served Australia well for a century

you're kidding, right?

preach hate

who's preaching hate? the only hate speech i've seen has come from white people. it bemuses me somewhat, the nicest people i've met in australia were those who weren't born here.

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load of bullshit if you ask me, i tried to get a job in a Chinese deli once, only to be told "we don't hire your kind" treat upon how thous treated imho, i don't agree with burqa wearing in oz, but did you really just post a thread asking peoples opinions regarding something you saw in a news agent.... :rolleyes:

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load of bullshit if you ask me, i tried to get a job in a Chinese deli once, only to be told "we don't hire your kind" treat upon how thous treated imho,

I agree. If a single person is racist towards me i dislike them but I don't dislike their whole race.

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load of bullshit if you ask me, i tried to get a job in a Chinese deli once, only to be told "we don't hire your kind"

Unless you speak fluent Mandarin or Cantonese, you might not have been able to communicate effectively with the Chinese Deli's clientelle. Therefore you were unsuitable for the job. Not everything has to be about racism.

As for the earlier persons passionate feelings that Islam 'thinks its OK to oppress women', did you ever stop to think about the rights of others to practice their own religious and cultural freedoms? Its these blanket statements from westerners that becomes a problem. Is the French proposal to ban burqu-wearing in that country about freedom ? No, it's about a government supported oppression of another person's culture.

Some interesting figures on the web indicate that domestic violence towards women (arguably a major form of oppression) is 1% higher in New Zealand than in Egypt. Another statistic from a 2004 study suggests that Indigenous Australian women are 40 times more likely to suffer than non-Indigenous Australians.

The perspective on this subject needs to be viewed from the available facts, and not from a racist heart that is not well informed on these subjects, and jumps to conclusions. Unfortunately I cant (yet) find any figures that show oppression or violence against women based on religious leanings.

The burqa's most ubiquitous usage is in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the latter country showing a massive decline in it's popularity in all but the tribal areas. And it's a country where there was an elected female Prime Minister TWICE (Benazir Bhutto). If the burqa is a sign of oppression, and that country is where it's most popular in the world, then you could argue that voting rights were male-dominated,and the men voted in a woman to lead the muslim state.

You would almost never see the burqa in countries like India (138 million Muslims) or Malaysia (over 60% of population are Muslims), so the much maligned fashion is hardly contemporaneous with the faith of Islam accused of shrouding their women and stripping their rights to exist.

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Some other instances of Islamic women in power:

Senegal - 94% Muslim: Mame Madior Boye, Prime Minister 2001-2002

Indonesia - 88% Muslim: Megawati Sukarnoputri, Vice President 1999-2001, then President 2001-2004

Turkey - 99% Muslim: Tansu Ciller, Prime Miniister 1993-1996

Kosovo - 90% Muslim: Kaqusha Jashari, Prime Minister 1987-1989

Bangladesh - 89% Muslim: Khaleda Zia, Prime Minister 2001-2006 followed three years later by Sheikh Hasina, Prime Minister 2009-current

Hardy a universal oppression of women within the religion as a whole.

Gender demographics don't swing enough to favour more women voters by any significant number to justify a revolt of the sexes. Plenty of Muslim men would have voted these powerful women into office.

Gender ratio Demographics:

Senegal: 0.96 male(s)/female

Indonesia: 1 male(s)/female

Turkey: 0.99 males(s)/female

Kosovo: 1.06 male(s)/female

Bangladesh: 0.93 male(s)/female

Edited by Psylo Dread

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Interesting to think that a burqa wearing woman could undertake the top job in many predominantly Muslim countries.

But I'm more interested in the role a burqa wearing woman can undertake within Australian society and the question "Is the burqa a socially imposed disability within the Australian workplace?" And with the federal government now determined to get mothers off welfare support and into work, would it be possible for these woman to undertake the top job, or any job for that matter, within the wider general Australian work place?

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