Schapelle Corby guilty or innocent ?

[gomaos]

I say:

Someone ought to bust her out...

whether she's guilty or not...

[eeroborroc]

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Edited September 13, 2013 by eeroborroc

[faustus]

the argument of cultural relativism always falls apart when you look at it more closely.

from what the papers are saying it isn't too hard to buy your way down to a reduced sentence. that bakir dude kinda sunk that ship when he kicked a stink about a supposed bribery proposition by the prosecution. dead set, he'd have done better if he'd used all his money on a nice retirement plan for the judge and prosecution.

but things will be better for her when she's transferred to a prison here. still think she's guilty though

[monkeyZ]

I really hate Howard for saying we "should accept the decision of the court". There has been many times people have been outraged at the decision of an australian court, and sometimes it has even made a difference. I see no reason why we can't have a similar social concience when it come to an australian in a foreign court.

btw, i totally agree with gomaos.

[spaced]

I've been wondering what our PM is planning on doing about this whole mess. At the very least he could bring about legalisation of Cannabis on a federal level thus setting a good example for foreign governments to follow.

[nabraxas]

as has been mentioned before,

it was the US & Aus. governments putting pressure on South East Asia to stop the drug trade (which had led to quite a few overdoses ov 'tourists'.

the response ov Indonesia (& others) was to impose the mandatory death sentance for drug convictions.

So the US & Aus had no respect for South East Asian culture or legal system, which they considered 'soft' on drugs; until they brought in mandatory death sentances.

Abu Bashir actually got a trial under Indonesian Law, & therefore got a sentance.

Drug cases are not really trials because of the US/Aus inspired mandatory sentances; they are basically "is it clear enough a case to apply the mandatory death sentance, or is there enough doubt to impose a mandatory life sentance? "

[monkeyZ]

i can't help but feel that something funny is going on. already downer has come out and spoken about a prisoner exchange, and his concerns that indonesian prisoners sent back to indo might not have to serve there full sentences, and that he would want assurences that they would.

i find that very strange as it is my understanding that quite often once returned to their country of origin, prisoners do not have to serve sentences longer than what the usual punishment entails in their own country.

why would he make a comment like that at all, unless he was intending to only have corby sent home on the condition the she serves her full term of 20 years once here... which i don't believe is the norm at all, despite downers comments to the contrary :confused:

[Anodyne]

edit: merged into post below

[ 01. June 2005, 03:30: Message edited by: Anodyne ]

[Benzito]

 

quote:

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the infamous cleric Bashir was only sentenced to 2 years for killing 88 Australian's in the Bali Bombing

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Actually, they killed hundreds of people, it's just that Ray Martin only ever mentions dead Australians.

Or are Australian lives the only important ones?

[jasemateau]

i can only say that i cant belive anyone would need 4kgs of mj for a holiday.

but the leverage in my opinion is,imagine if YOU were actually innocent and this is where you ended up!!!!!!!!!!!

20 years!!!!!!!

i had always locked my backpacks while traveling. it became second nature. however when i was traveling it was to keep thieves at bay.

i'm T to many other languished avenues in the case. piss poor. or was it just convienient?

my 3 cents

[Torsten]

I ALWAYS lock my suitcase and even my cabin bag! And that's not because of thieves, cos they can just walk off with the whole bag anyway. My parents drummed the whole drug smuggling thing into me when I wasn't even in my teens yet and it is just second nature when I travel.

Smugglers will go for the easy target - the bag without the lock - rather than creating extra evidence against them.

[Rev]

Just remember the Aussie govt gives 20 year terms for people smuggling - another victimless crime (in the type heading here via boat anyway not sex trafficking)

and unlike the weed those people want to be smuggled

Australia has shown no mercy and indeed a fair amount of malice towards the poor indonesian fishermen forced by necessity to take on the job

as usual we should all direct our anger closer to home more often if we want to mainatin any sort of moral high ground

[monkeyZ]

maybe the australian/indonesian goverments should work together; legalise pot in australia(and indo) and start importing it from indonesia... think about it it's win-win and would have to strengthen ties :D

[ergoamide]

i like the way u think monkeyz but with the current government its sadly doubtfull after all theyve made sally d and kratom illegal

[bloodbob]

Someone ( I think a mexican ) apparently got 7 years for having 15 kilo of MJ in 2002 in indonesia.

[teonanacatl]

i was talking to someone who told me that ms corby had been to bali 33 times!!! he also made the point, sure its stupid to take weed to bali but what if bali was the gate way to somwhere else where a higher price was worth it. and also can/does she even body board???

[nabraxas]

^ yep, maybe IF she was smuggling the final destination may have been tokyo where Corby lived & worked for some time, & where grass IS expensive.

[2b]

I believe it was something like that , Tokyo would make sense . Possibly some one was meant to take the gear out of her bag and redirect it to Tokyo but some thing went wrong ? The pay off was not made ? The people that were meant to do the job , went home sick , worked different shift ? In my opinion ,she's guilty . A manipulative sociopath that's destroying OUR relationship with Indonessia that has taken so long to get up and running since the change of ragiem. If the dumbass's of this country keep going we'll end up with another Malaysia on our door step and we all loose .I can't understand Australian society , the woman was caught red handed ,simple. I saw on a comercial TV network that 90% of Australian society think she's innocent ! Did i miss something ? :confused: Shit imagine the scene if 27 year old male surfer caught with 4kgs in his surf board cover . This whole thing makes me embaressed to be Australian , those that can remember the damage Pauline Hansen did in Asia will be able to see the implications of what this is doing to our reputation.Shapples'the sort of woman that would start crying to the police that have just pulled her over for speeding (and get away with it !) I for one am not buying into this crap , the legal campaign has been a farce that has whipped the countries tabloid media into a frenzy and a when a it hit critical mass , the dumbass's of our country turned fiction into fact. :mad:

[monkeyZ]

as far as i can see, if she claims she is innocent, and there is a plausible alternative, then that is enough to let her go. i don't believe there is sufficient evidence to justify locking her up.

perhaps (probably) i am bias, due to her being australian and my views on drugs anyway. but to a large extent i would take her word, and that of her witnesses just as seriously as the baggage handlers or police. corruption is common. that's not a nationality thing (australia has had/does have that problem in parts of the police force). even the treatment of prisoners says something to me... that's part of the justice system as well! They admitt that prisoners are treated extremely poorly and have to rely on bribing guards to survive!

to me, that's kind of like walking into a hospital full of rotting dead bodies and being told 'but the doctors are great'.

[Anodyne]

I read recently that the judge who sentenced her has judged on hundreds of drug cases in his career, and has found ALL of them guilty. Does anyone know if this is true?

 

quote:

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I saw on a comercial TV network that 90% of Australian society think she's innocent !

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I think that poll actually showed that 90% of A Current Affair viewers think she's innocent.

 

quote:

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However, how can we possibly show the slightest amount of respect for a country that would convict a young woman of drug trafficing (...and under such weak evidence) and leave her to rot in a prison cell for 20years, whereas the infamous cleric Bashir was only sentenced to 2 years for killing 88 Australian's in the Bali Bombing.

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This was the line the Daily Telegraph used. He was actually sentenced for 2.5 years, for "conspiracy". Other men were also given similar sentences for their involvement. However, as Media Watch pointed out last night, the 3 men who were charged for direct involvement in the bombing, Amrozi, Ali Imron, and Mukhlas, are now all on death row, awaiting execution by firing squad.

[Hagakure]

monkeyz - would you say that if the bodyboard bag belonged to a big tattooed dude or someone with a criminal record?

everyone is equal before the courts. possesion is a big deal and it would take some good evidence for the judges to let her go even if they wanted.

the legal process is fine and if they cant prove someone else did it she has to suffer consequences.

the court system in bali is fair. Bashir had a all-star team of lawers that beat most of the charges - i think he only got done for knowing it was going to happen - no other links could be proven. thats justice for you - you cant get emotional, it has to be blind or the whole system crumbles down.

the issue i have is that the consequences are riduculous for importing a drug that should be decriminalised anyway.

interestingly enough there was a letter to the australian about some australain visiting some friends in bali on drug charges. they had a hot water system put in, various luxuries etc, and when he went to visit them they were out of the jail going to the local market. i think they also had indonesian girlfriends. it was in the letters page of the australian last week sometime. if you have money prison could be bearable over in indonesia. the problem with all of this media and national day of protest garbage is it makes things harder and harder for shapelle - they have to go hard on her cause the whole world is watching. weakness here is taking it up the ass from australia.

will be interesting to see what happens. hope she gets out okay cause she is young and that type of prison sentence is insane.

[monkeyZ]

Hagakure:

monkeyz - would you say that if the bodyboard bag belonged to a big tattooed dude or someone with a criminal record?

 

i kinda like people with tatoos and crimal records! one of these days i'll have both

 

quote:

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interestingly enough there was a letter to the australian about some australain visiting some friends in bali on drug charges. they had a hot water system put in, various luxuries etc, and when he went to visit them they were out of the jail going to the local market. i think they also had indonesian girlfriends. it was in the letters page of the australian last week sometime. if you have money prison could be bearable over in indonesia.

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i believe i did mention the corruption issue....

 

quote:

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sounds

will be interesting to see what happens. hope she gets out okay cause she is young and that type of prison sentence is insane.

agreed.

[ 01. June 2005, 14:58: Message edited by: monkeyZ ]

[nabraxas]

possesion is a big deal

--"Possesion is nine tenths of the law"

[teonanacatl]

i bet she wouldnt have got 20 years if they didnt make a big fuss about it. funny she gets busted red handed with illegal drugs and everyone is behind her innocence, pondman (iforgot his name) sells RC which to my knoledge arnt illegal and i bet evenyone thinks he got what he deserved.

by the way whats with beauty students and drugs these days?? apparently they are a big market for MDMA????

[monkeyZ]

nabraxas:

possesion is a big deal

--"Possesion is nine tenths of the law"

i believe that saying actually has no (modern day) legal foundation at all - and is certainly only referring to property disputes (where 2 parties are arguing over an item and neither has any proof of ownership) and not drug possesion.

and there are other things like:

--"Reasonable doubt"

--"Presumption of innocence"

i guess it's just the importance of each of things that people have different opinions on...

perhaps in bali they have taken the 'possesion is 9/10ths' thing a little too literally;

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2...05/s1356357.htm