NSW / East Coast Fires

[GoOnThen]

I was just sitting down with my wife looking at photos and talking about the fires and I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread for photos and updates from people that are effected by the fires and for other to send the well wishers.

I have spent most of my life living in the Perth hills and I truly understand the position that so many people are in with the fires and weather that so many are facing now.

I would also suggest that any member that needs help in any way to get through this to post here in the hope that this community can help in what ever way that we can.

The Got family would like to send good vibes and love to all that are in the effected areas.

Stay safe people and if you think you should leave your home don't second guess yourself just go.

Cheers

Got

[Shamanistic]

I'm in the middle of the fires but in an area that isn't too under threat atm but am a little worried. Like I said in chat I've never seen anything like this. I looked out from a hill on a near by street over the lake and the whole horizon is covered in a thick redish smoke. Very surreal. I know of a member who is at risk and my thoughts are with them and any other saber out there closer to the fires than myself.

Stay safe everyone!

[Sallubrious]

It's fucking insane, I've been through some big ones before but never anything like this. It's not even close to summer.

If tony abbott is still denying climate change he should be committed.

[GoOnThen]

NSW Rural Fire Service Current Fires and Incidents

http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/dsp_content.cfm?cat_id=683

Cheers

Got

[Sallubrious]

With the amount of fires burning half the east coast could be scorced earth by the middle of next week.

If this weather is a taste of things to come, we're going to have a serious re think about building codes in this country.

Houses are going to have to be built like concrete bunkers.

[GoOnThen]

The thing with fires they can be so unpredictable with what houses they will take. A family members house survived a major fire here and houses on both sides and the one behind all went up. The crazy thing was all of the ones that burnt were brick and tile and theirs was all timber Queenslander style.

They stayed until the house next door when up and then left thinking theirs was done for but with the help of the water bombers and fire fighters on the ground it survived with a bit of scorching.

There are positive always story's like that but sadly there are so many that loose everything.

Cheers

Got

[Sallubrious]

Yeah I see the windows as really weak points, in a firestorm the widows blow and the fire just blows straight through. The roof & eaves would be the other main vulnerability for a modern slab house,

If building codes required fireproof shutters or rollers ect then most houses could withstand it until the worst had passed.

I just heard a rumour which I hope is not true. Some people are suggesting that Catherine hill bay has been almost wiped out.

[Francois le Danque]

Did anyone see the moon/sun (i really dont know which) from the city in the afternoon? it was fluorescent blood red, and amazing. also everything was glowing. it was super cool, but my phone would not photograph it well.,,

I hope everyone is safe

[Halcyon Daze]

I just flew over it all (Melb - Bris) and it looked nasty, spot fires all up the east coast. Good luck everybody.

[El Presidente Hillbillios]

i heard a guy on the radio the other days saying about most of these bad fires start on unkempt government land.

I had a walk through the western sydney parkland yesterday and i have to say it really is a massive hazzard. The grass is waist high in most spots down to about knee high. All of it is dry as straw as we havent had any rain.

Any farmer worth anything would have eaten that down with stock, cut and baled or controlled burned that as it is a massive danger. But they seem to do nothing. The place is surrounded by houses and is 1000's of acres that are the same with only a few small parts that are cared for. Im sure if it was private land the council would have been onto them to fix the problem.

They prolly would say they dont have the money to take care of their responsibilities, but that cant be true, it really doesnt cost money to maintain a short paddock with stock. In fact it makes money. They have the money to randomly plant natives that aint even watered in and all cark it by the 10000's. seems to me to be managed by someone that dont really get it.

Mark my words that place is a big disaster waiting to happen

[J Smith]

Stay safe everyone.

[bℓσωηG]

i feel sorry for the koalas

[Sallubrious]

Yeah hillbilly it was the same up here, there was way too much fuel there and there has been for years.

Part of the blame for this has to go the RFS, they just won't let anyone backburn and they won't do it themselves. I don't know if it's still there but up until last weekend they had a page on their website stating that they'd acknowledged everyones concerns and were looking into it or some such bullshit. Locals councils had wanted to backburn but the fucking RFS wouldn't give them permits.

I believe there is a political inquiry into it as our local mayor & residents have been screaming for backburning to be done for months but the cunts just wouldn't act. We all know what an inquiry is - just a way not to actually do anything, just like the RFS inquiry where they sat on their fucking hands.

We found out last night that one of the fires up here was lit by a high school kid, apparently he was bragging to his mates about.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Sally

[Yeti101]

Apparently the Catho Pub is still standing , though they did loose some houses. Things got pretty tense in some of the communities closer to the fire, hopefully the worst is past. It was crazy though, took people by surprise.

The house is pretty solid, but I can still see some weak points, especially against ember-attack

Summer will be pretty dire, but not around here; there will be very little left to burn.

[Sallubrious]

I was thinking along the same lines Yeti, thank fuck it didn't happen on a 45 degree day.

I saw a news report last night about a fire in the blue mtns, apparently they had a fire several months ago and some the residents thought they'd be safe because of that. Apparently the previous fire wasn't a complete burn and left a dried dead canopy that dropped a lot crap and the fire still had enough fuel to burn it again.

[Darklight]

Part of the blame for this has to go the RFS, they just won't let anyone backburn and they won't do it themselves.

"Them" is you, is us Sally. RFS members at the firefront are 95% volunteers. Subject to an incredible amount of red tape and paperwork and pressure from the public and politicians. Don't like it? Join up and help out. You'll most likely meet a fascinating array of people, some of whom you won't agree with about everything but it will really expand your horizons and change your mind about what it means to contribute and get shit done.

I was a member until 1998. Hell, at various times I was secretary, treasurer, permit officer, callout bitch you name it as well as out there on the firefront a fuck of a lot. In those days we spent about 90% of our time putting out actual fires.

The fires around the state in 1993-94 changed that ( they were hellish, I was out there ). The coroner made multiple changes to the way we operate and now volunteers spend 40% of their time doing paperwork, follow ups, mandatory training. You have no idea at all the amount of time it takes to run one of these things. Active captaincy is a full time job with no pay and lots of unpaid overtime. Everything is enshrined in legislation, there is no room to move

Putting yourself up for office is a real sacrifice to community as you will be pumelled from all sides- right up until a fire hits, then you're a hero for a few weeks, then you're a cunt again. Too bad, we do what we can, in many cases what we are allowed to do but not what we'd like. As best we can we protect bush and life and houses and our communities.

I joined up again recently. Had to go back through basic ( two weekends ) of training. The permit officers are my neighbours and friends, and I know what they have to go through to make sure ppl get to do their hazard control or rubbish burns. It's not some random bloke with a pen and a clipboard being snide and taking away your right to torch shit when it suits you.

Two scenes from the 1994 fires. The first was when our crews had been out for 2+ weeks, every day, patrolling and blacking out and actively fighting fires. We got called to a neighbouring district, where they didn't bother to have their own brigade, in those days we didn't have mobiles and shit, largely fed by landholders and volunteers if they could find us. We could only assume the landholder was absent because there was no-one local there.

We were up on a ridge doing a backburn to save some guys house, no-one had bothered to bring us food or water over 10 hours and we'd radio'ed in for some but it was a way off. One of our oldest and most valuable blokes went down with heatstroke and we practically had to tranquilise him with an elephant gun to keep him resting once he regained consciousness.

Eventually we got a good line established, headed back down to the house. Found the dickhead in the pool with a beer. When questioned as to his absence and the lack of support or food he shrugged and said that was what we got pad to do, why should we worry?

This attitude is more common than you'd realise. That area formed an RFS brigade for three years, then they disbanded again. Fuck 'em, I'll think twice before going out of area over there

The second memory from 1994: I was on callout that day, matching skills sets, personalities, availability and estimating how long several people had been off-shift for and whether or not it was safe to send them out again so soon. Having to rung up humble and request of many, many people that they give up a day's pay, test the patience of their employer again, risk their health and fck knows what else, and go out again, for the third or fifth time that week. And hearing them say Yeah, alright, I'm getting my overalls on now I'll be there

For the record: No-one gets paid to fight fires in the RFS. You get nada as a member. We're out at your place because we care. We're more hamstrung by legislation and rules than you can imagine. And we're still there

Sometimes shit burns. We live in a country where shit burns. It endangers the bush, lives, people. Fire is by no means predictable and while any loss is unacceptable and sad, it is inevitable and can't always be managed in advance. Bad decisions are sometimes made and the people who make them know they'll be called cunts by idiots, but make them anyhow, because if everyone sat on their arse we'd all be fucked

Don't like it? Put your money where your mouth is and join up. See how it works. Go out with a crew and learn what there really is to complain about. Then come back and share your infinite wisdom with us all

I am so, so glad it is raining here, I was absolutely despairing of it. I hope it's raining for you all, so everyone is safe and the firies can go home

[Darklight]

And another memory from my former firie days.

Idiots ringing the local brigade and saying " I see smoke, what are you going to do about it? "

Wouldn't matter what day it was, what time. 6am the morning after you've been out all night at the firefront, or Christmas day. Everything stops when shit is burning, no question

And you say to them " Well, we can't see it from here, where are you? Go outside and tell us which direction it's coming from "

And the whiny fucks would be all " Don't you know about it? That's your job, I'm just ringing to tell you "

Things are different now with satellites, improved communications between brigades and HQs, mobiles, almost reliable internet out there in the bush, a fuck ton of equipment, much of which actually works.

Because of the extra responsibilities and requirements we now have smaller, better trained and equipped brigades who are more often called out of area. It is deemed to be acceptable that we have high volunteer turnover because of the extra demands, and that whoever is left is automatically assumed to be available to pop out to Narrabri or Bellbrook for a week to fight someone else's fire. The people who stay are under much more pressure than when I was last on the books

I'm not sure if I agree with this, but it's better than giving up and letting someone else do it so I have the right to whine about it.

[Sallubrious]

Sorry if I struck a nerve Darklight. I have no gripes against the people that do the hard yards on the ground, if it weren't for them there would have been thousands of properties lost without doubt.

They are true heroes in every sense of the word, putting themselves in the firing line while their own properties & families are at risk -truly noble stuff.

So it seems that it's a legislative problem where they've been bogged down by red tape. Something is truly wrong with the system if a Mayor and the majority of the residents won't be listened to. I walked through one of the affected areas with my seven year old son recently and everything was dead and crunchy underfoot and he said to me "I hope we don't get a fire, if we do all of this would burn". A child could see it.

So who is ultimately responsible ?
If it's not local government then it must fall back on the state government.

Most of these fires were on government land that simply wasn't managed properly.

[Jox]

My best wishes & good luck go out to anyone affected by bush fires.

Looking at the conversations going on here it does make you wonder who is responsible for making decisions & controlling back burning, there are not doing a very good job!

My hat goes off to the members of the RFS for putting themselves in the front line & as Darklight said there members are made up of an array interesting people, you even get the occasional pyromaniac that sneaks out to light the fires so he/she can hang out on the weekend with there mates putting the fire out !

What ever is going on & who ever is responsible is not doing a good enough job, this is something the government has to look at & deal with. A lot more money, resources & time need to be put in to protect the members of the community that are under threat by bush fire! Just imagine if the government put all of there anti motorcycle gang funding & the money wasted on the war on drugs into making a fire plan that works for our country! Our government should be taking care of us instead of fu#king us up!!

Anyway like I said at the start, good luck to everyone that has to deal with the threat of fire this season, please remember you can rebuild your home but you, your family & pets are irreplaceable! Take care.

Cheers

Jox

[Darklight]

Looking at the conversations going on here it does make you wonder who is responsible for making decisions & controlling back burning, there are not doing a very good job!

For the most part I don't agree. Many of them are good ppl balancing opposing interests. Often these opposing interests come from the same ppl who will demand one thing, or be outraged by another, then when the fires get close or pass by do a quick 180 and demand something completely different

Australians need to accept one of two things.

The bush burns. If you live in it, you may lose stuff. Maybe a life. But if you want pretty trees and grasslands around you, and an actual ecology, then the rest is merely about managing risk. The risk can't ever be removed 100%. If you want to help manage that risk, hooray for you. It doesn't make the risk go away

If you can't accept the first option, live in the city, in some leafless suburb in the CBD. Most unlikely to burn in a bush fire

you even get the occasional pyromaniac that sneaks out to light the fires so he/she can hang out on the weekend with there mates putting the fire out

Rare and over-reported but we do get them. And nothing will stop that unfortunately. Thanks to the outcry about it we now have police background checks for even basic members. It puts ppl off joining, but they're pretty lenient overall about minor stuff like drugs charges and similar, thank fuck, or there would be no fire brigades around here. It's a waste of resources to make the public feel good

Most of the pyros, from what I've seen of the stats, are teenaged boys. I'm not in favour of it being a crime to be one.

Personally I'd be in favour of handing over proven pyros to the local RFS chapter to be torn to pieces. But hey, I couldn't get it past my local MP

They are true heroes in every sense of the word, putting themselves in the firing line while their own properties & families are at risk -truly noble stuff.

I wish I'd stop hearing the term heroes. Or anything similar. Everyone I know with experience cringes at that term. It's not nice to be put on a pedestal, makes us feel like we can be taken off at a similar whim

Most firies are ppl who have an affinity for the bush ( even if it's not the same affinity as everyone else in the crew ) who love their community, who like to put the fires out and then go home. People remarkably like you. Which is why you are encouraged to join

Yeah you did strike a nerve, you won't be the only one. I was on the receiving end of a similar bit of vitriol back in 1990 when as a very idealistic little greenie... never mind, the old redneck bastard was right, and it was advice which has served me well

Don't criticise people doing something. Either step in and help, or set up something which gets stuff done the way you want it, and be prepared for the consequences. But never stand in the way and bleat

Anyway like I said at the start, good luck to everyone that has to deal with the threat of fire this season, please remember you can rebuild your home but you, your family & pets are irreplaceable! Take care.

Please, above all, know this. Prepare in advance as far as you can. And take care of each other

[Jox]

@Darklight, I think our volunteers do a great job & have nothing but respect for what they do, Australian residents a very lucky to have a service like this! But do you really think the government is doing a good job at keeping fire hazards to a minimum & that more prevention measures should not be looked at? I am asking you this question as you seem to be involved in this area & I am surprised you disagreed with my first comment. I know the threat of bush fire can never be 100% eliminated but surly we can do better!!

I am not trying to stir the pot or upset anyone. This is something that I am genuinely interested in.

Cheers

Jox

Edited October 18, 2013 by Jox

[Darklight]

I really don't know what the issues were around these specific fires, except that we were moving into dry pattern last year where I am, despite the rainfall, and now we're in it. So it's not like fire is a surprise

We may know better later, the Coroner's Office will be involved if there are several deaths ( I hope there aren't ) and her office usually brings all the issues to the table

I do know that there are always competing interests involved, there were debates about selective grazing vs national/state parks re fire hazard as one example recently. There have been debates about management of NPWS and fires. And all this coming at a time of major govt cutbacks on staffing- lots of good experience is lost as many old hands are made redundant in so many fields and n00bs are bought in to wrangle what's left and have no mentoring available

*Some* of the fog is generated by the media to sell papers, or ad space, and so the arguments get all fouled up. " OMG I shouldn't have lost my house, someone responsible everything blah blah" is a better headline than " Totally unprepared person who lives in the bush and had eucalypt branches all over the roof is surprised that it is on fire during a drought".

There was a headline today where some poor woman who had her house burn in the bush said something like "that's what happens in the bush ". More power to her, we don't see it as often as we see the general population blame shifting.

When it comes to stuff like species and habitat, I tend to be on the green side of things. But then I'm in favour of zero population growth as well. And govt using their money to generate jobs, not pay for travel rorts or vote themselves pay rises. That outlook tends to affect what sort of beliefs I hold about fire management practices. And is often in no way compatible with real life- certainly not at the firefront where I willingly defer to ppl I know have more experience than I, let's just put the fucker out and worry about the politics later

What I do know is on the ground. Regs change, politics blows them round like the wind, we are given instructions on which piece of paper to fill out and who to contact at every step. If we don't do that various ppl upstairs threaten to take our trucks or equipment off us. There is very little accountability about this decision making process. But I don't think it is a major factor

Fire management is not something we will ever get 100% right, IMO. We need to accept this as a society, we need to stop blame shifting, hero worshipping, sensationalising and if we care at all, just pitch in and help out when we can

[Sallubrious]

I don't know the anwer Jox, all I know is that I had a sleepless night helping friends evacuate their house and putting out a fire that had reached their back fence.

They'd been trying to get a buffer zone established for almost 3 years but the RFS wouldn't let them do it. When they rang the RFS to tell them there was a fire near their home they were threatened with a gaol sentence for making nuisance calls and wasting their time so no-one came to help until the last minute the truck wasn't called either it was unit on patrol.

What would I know though, I'm just a blame shifting hero worshiping whinger

[Sallubrious]

Edit: double post

Edited October 18, 2013 by Sally

[Jox]

Maybe the government should make/help people be more prepared, for example it you want to build a house were there is high fire risk it should be mandatory to have a fire bunker on your property & sprinkler systems installed on your roof! This would surly save lives. Personally I would not consider living in the bush with out these two things. This are the kind of things I mean by more can be done. If you live in a flood pron area & don't have your house built at the right height you can't get insurance.

@Sally, I think your friends are lucky to have people like you in there lives!! If you want to call people that volunteer to put there lives in danger to help others heroes then I would have to agree & I think most of them would appreciate our respect, some just do like to admit it.

Cheers

Jox

Edited October 18, 2013 by Jox