Mystery loph seedling massacre

[Nemisty]

So the whole last week I was away from my garden. When I retuned I found my container of lophophora seedlings had been annihilated. I checked them the day I left town and they were happy as larry as per usual. But when I returned they were totally white, shrivelled up, and past the point of no return

I've had these seeds growing in these conditions since July with no issues. The one week I'm away all hell breaks loose.

From what I gathered nothing seemed to change too much while I was away. The takeaway container was in my little greenhouse with folded over frost cloth over the top and the container itself even had white cloth on it also. So even if it was super sunny the light was well diffused. There was no cold snaps or frosts.The growing medium is a coco coir, sand, perlite mix that was evenly moist.

There is no signs of a pathogen that I could see however this is my main suspect but it seems odd since I did microwave the medium well before sewing out. And there was no visible signs of fungi on the soil but one of the dead lophs had tuned grey and had some sort fungi on it but that may have occured after the fact.

Heres some pics:

Lesson has now been learned about having all my eggs in one basket.

Would very much like to avoid anything like this in the future so I'm hoping for any suggestions as to the cause of these deaths because I'm totally f*cken baffled.

Cheers.

[Halcyon Daze]

May have gotten a bit too hot one day. Poor things

The coco coir is probably best if it's not brand new. Maybe let it compost for a month or so and then sterilize before use.

Just a thought.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Halcyon Daze

[Change]

Same thing happened to me last week with my 50/50 coco sand takeaway tek..... i had 100ish sprouted out of 500 seeds, now everything gone with no signs to work out what happened

I had my 100% sand takeaway tek sitting next to it and nothing changed there, so im starting to think maybe the coco has something to do with it.

Its sucks learning the lessons of not sowing all your seed in the same takeaway tek the hard way. But atleast you wont do it again.

[Nemisty]

Hmm good point Halcyon. it may have gotten fairly hot in there.

The coco keeps the moister nice and even, would like to use it again but maybe scale the ratio back a bit.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Nemesis

[Halcyon Daze]

I just used some of the chunky stuff in a potting mix. Even after the 3rd rinse, the water that came off was dark brown and the smell was quite strong.

I decided to make my potting mix up and let it sit in a big pot for a month or so before I plant anything into it.

Maybe tiny lophs can't tolerate something in it.

[Change]

Did you use a Coco brick or Coco from a bag?

Was it sterilized ?

[Nemisty]

Coco from a brick. Not sure if it was sterilized or not.

[GoOnThen]

You should always wash Coco coir before using as some brands will be high in salt. I am not saying that this was the problem here. I agree that for all of them to go down like that they could have been cooked. I would suggest getting a thermometer that holds max and min temps to keep in your green house. You can get cheap ones at Bunnings.

Cheers

Got

[Sallubrious]

It is interesting to say the least, I have a few questions if you don't mind.

So are we seeing before and after shots there or are the pics all taken at the same time ?

How much sun does the greenhouse get ?

Is that a true rendition of the colour that they are/were?

How much direct sun does the greenhouse get ?

They really seem to be lacking pigment and look somewhat etiolated like they haven't had enough light for quite a while.

Edited October 20, 2012 by SallyD

[Nemisty]

No both photos have been taken after I got back. They were green as green before i left.

Green house probably gets 5 hours of direct sunlight. Its north facing but tucked into a 135º corner. So plenty of ambient sunlight also.

They had sun burn issues so I folded the frost cloth on the green house in half to double its thickness. There was tricho seedlings surrounding this container in the green house and they are all fine as usual, no burns, no loss of pigment.

That picture has captured their colour well. That is what they currently are like. One still has some green left and is clinging on for life but I dont fancy its chances.

[Sallubrious]

Maybe if they had been sunburned previously they took a while to succumb to it and keel over.

When they get sunburned it does take a while before they die, so that could have been a big factor.

First the sunburn, then the heat and that could have weakened them enough for a pathogen to move in and clean up.

[bogfrog]

Gutted bro.

I have only ever had one seedling turn white like that, then totally transparent, then dead, and that was only one in a tray of 200+ so i dnt have a clue what happened there.

Would u like some loph seeds?

Dust yourself off and try again.

[Nemisty]

Hmmm. The surnburn was a little while ago but that does seem plausible Sally.

Yea life goes on, still pretty frustrated though. A lot of time and effort right there.

I certainly wont say no to that bogfrog. I got some seed to swap ya with.

[2Deep2Handle]

A spike in heat, in such a small area, with enough moisutre to cause 100% humidty and still be wet, will cook a batch of almost any cacti seedlings in no time at all, and end up looking exactly like your ones.

I suspect the coco was holding to much moisture, and should have been in the process of being vented daily, until almost dry, but still retaining 100% humidty.

The only downfall of the take-away tek IMO ,is there is not enough ample air for circulation, and to draw up excess media moisture, as air-bound moisture. Only takes a very quick spike in heat to superheat even the air inside the container.

Sorry to hear about your loss bro. Been there. Done that.

[WoodDragon]

A word about seed mixes.

Most arid-adapted succulent seedlings will last for a few years - and grow! - in coarse river sand as long as they're watered. I know, because I'm a slack-arse repotter.

Keep the organic matter right away from these genera in the early stages and you'll have much less grief with dying-off.

Trust me.

Edited October 21, 2012 by WoodDragon

[mutant]

^^^

Yep, why spend money on expensive substrates, while you can mess them up in a normal and pretty cheap substrate?

[incognito]

I was going to say to much moisture. And the coir would give off a lot of humidity I imagine.

[CactusPlaza]

Dear Nemesis,

Your seedlings are dying because of a combination of moisture and wrong soil.

Especially the soil seems to be to organic. i would use a combination of peatless potting soil (25%),

coarse sand (75&) and fine grit (1-3 mm diameter) (25%).

Also cover your seeds with a thin layer of this grit. It gives the seedlings a firm grip and it prevents damping off.

After germination, which is usually within 2 weeks with lophophora species, wait another two weeks and slowly increase ventilation.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

[Nemisty]

Trippy shit. The majority of those seeds actually came from you Mr CactusPlaza.

But yes it was definitly was the soil mix that killed them and I have learned alot from that ill-fated batch.

Have since sowed plenty of loph seed since this batch just in straight sand and they're all very happy so far.

PS. Was impressed with your website and service and would order more from you however parcels from the Netherlands can draw bit too much attention at our customs.

[Pat Uri]

That is so sad. My deepest condolences.

[CβL]

;_;

I think it was the organic matter probably. I can give you some seeds (Tricho) as well.

[cornilius maximus]

Yeah the same thing happened to me recently.

My mix looked allot like yours.

I've since transferred them to a sand mix with a little bit of soil (80:20)and they are pumping again.

They are still in a takeaway container with the lid on, the sand is most but not wet, in the same spot as before and they have turned green again. I burp the lid most days, and the container sweats up each day and I am now observing significant growth.

I did lose a few but 'something is better than nothing'!

My theory is that perhaps the roots lack the osmotic potential to uptake water from the coir as perhaps they would in their natural habitat of sand surfaces because they looked like they have had the water sucked out of them?????

peace

cornilius maximus

[Sallubrious]

Dear Nemesis,

Your seedlings are dying because of a combination of moisture and wrong soil.

Especially the soil seems to be to organic. i would use a combination of peatless potting soil (25%),

coarse sand (75&) and fine grit (1-3 mm diameter) (25%).

Also cover your seeds with a thin layer of this grit. It gives the seedlings a firm grip and it prevents damping off.

After germination, which is usually within 2 weeks with lophophora species, wait another two weeks and slowly increase ventilation.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

 

I just want to get some clarification on the mix you are using for your seedlings.

I've had enough red wine to kill a horse at the moment, so I may be reading this wrong.

The ratios you stated seem to add up to 125% so it must be a good mix

Was that meant to be 50% coarse sand and was the 75& the grade of the sand you use ?

[CactusPlaza]

Trippy shit. The majority of those seeds actually came from you Mr CactusPlaza.

But yes it was definitly was the soil mix that killed them and I have learned alot from that ill-fated batch.

Have since sowed plenty of loph seed since this batch just in straight sand and they're all very happy so far.

PS. Was impressed with your website and service and would order more from you however parcels from the Netherlands can draw bit too much attention at our customs.

 

I see. Happy to hear you have more luck now.

[cactuscarl]

I reckon you have probably not given them enough light or had a mold outbreak. My seedlings grow in anything and don't die I've had them in strait sand, strait perlite, strait low grade potting mix and mixed soil it doesn't seem to worry them. I've also put seedlings in full sun. They grow in the desert