Homeless people in the city

[whitewind]

This week I started a new job, and already I am struggling. Not because of the work, nor the pay, or my boss, or my co-workers - which are a mixed bag of annoying to rather great, with an average of pretty good, actually, so long as I can keep my spirits up (suffering a bit from stress).

But the sadness started yesterday, on my first day, when I turned up to a public garden and found a mattress and four new blankets stashed away behind a bush - and I had to remove them because they were unsightly to the cafe. Unsightly, yes. But also someone's bed, innovatively removed from somewhere they probably weren't required by someone who was at least, attempting to better themselves by getting a comfortable warm bed. I assume that last night he (they are almost always a he) had a cold, uncomfortable and sad night once more. I couldn't do anything; this is my job, the only one I currently have and I really need the money to feed my wife and child. But I did, at least, feel desperately sad.

And today, working in a different place, there was a man, sleeping rough on the grass near where I was working. I must have walked past him 20 times. A big man, with a huge bushy black and grey beard - I think I may have seen him before. He is spark out in the sun, one time he wakes with a snort and moves to a shadier place, and sleeps again. I look at his feet; he has no shoes, only a pair of incredibly worn socks with his heels and toes sticking out. I thought about giving him my socks; but I was using them and I don't have huge amounts. But I felt very sorry for him, which was something, and this weekend I will find a pair of old socks and hide them in my toolbox, just in case I can leave him a small gift - assuming he hasn't been moved on by then.

So what the fuck is so wrong with our society that in a relatively affluent, educated country that this kind of shit still happens? It makes me sick to my stomach to think that there are people out there who receive no care, and have no interest in contributing to our society.

[PositiveHAL]

whatever you do, dont travel to vancouver or the U.S

[PositiveHAL]

seen this on the net in various forms:

I recently asked my neighbors’ little girl what she wanted to be when she grows up. She said she wanted to be Prime Minister some day. Both of her parents, greens voters, were standing there, so I asked her, ‘If you were Prime Minister what would be the first thing you would do?’

She replied, ‘I’d give food and houses to all the homeless people.’

Her parents beamed with pride.

’Wow…what a worthy goal.’ I told her, ‘But you don’t have to wait until you’re Prime Minister to do that! You can come over to my house and mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my yard, and I’ll pay you $50. Then I’ll take you over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house.‘

She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight in the eye and asked, ’ Why doesn’t the homeless guy come over and do the work, and you can just pay him the $50? ‘

I said, ‘Welcome to Liberal Party.’

Her parents still aren’t speaking to me.

[whitewind]

Of course, assuming that there are jobs available, the pay is always fair, that everyone is a competent in handling their finances, that stressful circumstances can make it impossible for people to work. The Liberal philosophy is based on the asumption that "if everyone works for themselves, there is no need to help anyone else". Of course, it is possible for people to be unable to help themselves and they fall through the cracks, as I saw this week.

My philosophy is "if everyone helps everyone else, there is no need to help yourself". Naturally, as the kind, generous Liberals point out, lazy people can destroy this by being, well, lazy and not helping out. Naturally, the laziest people in the world are those with swanky offices and huge pay packets who get everyone else to do their hard work and reap all the profit, with due consideration to the homeless a mere "he should get off his arse and find a job".

Cunts.

[PositiveHAL]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Australia

[PositiveHAL]

[whitewind]

I have just found a pair of socks and a small tin of tuna, now in my bag just in case I see that guy tomorrow.

[PositiveHAL]

tried talking to him?

[whitewind]

Nah he was sleeping, and I am not good at making conversation.

[Bert&Ernie]

its sad hey..

iv had to just throw homeless peoples beds and belonging in the bin before it really sucks but if they didn't leave there stuff just laying around in a garden for anyone to find I wouldn't have a problem... i usually leave there stuff if they don't leave to much rubbish behind and they are well hidden but if they are in plain sight and or rubbish is everywhere every thing goes straight in the bin I do feel bad though so I kinda know how your feeling

[Snowfella]

Always breaks your heart seeing something like that and not really being able to really help. Know it definately broke mine as a young and naive 20 year old doing a SFOR peacekeeping "tour" in Bosnia back in the late 90's to see kids begging for money or food whenever we stopped in towns or villages without really being able to help at a scale that meant anything. Even worse was the few visits to run down and bleak orphanages and seeing how the kids there lived!

Kickstarted a part of me I didn't think I had in me, during my 2 week leave back home in the middle of the tour I doorknocked every daycare center in town asking for toy/misc donations. Had to do some seriously fast talking to explain the chockers extra 3 garbagebags I wanted to bring back down with me to the herc loadmaster before I was allowed onto the flight.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to be there in person when the loot was handed out in said orphanages but it's still one of my proudest moments knowing I helped making an ever so slight difference in some kids lifes, even if all they got was a teddy or blanket.

A mere few weeks later I had whatever good feeling that gave me shattered to the core after being the first person on scene when a local kid set of a landmine just meters of the road and not being able to help in any way. Ordered to stay on hard surface due to the risk of more mines about and by the time anyone go to her it was all to late, many a year spent in the deep abyss of a bottle followed.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Snowfella

[coin]

Most of the people I've spoken to (not a whole heap, admittedly), who are living on the street in Melbourne, really don't want any help getting off the street. A lot refuse food (an offer of whatever they would want), though they ask for money for food, because they drink so much they have gastric ulcers and/or eating actual food would inhibit the prompt absorption of alcohol once they save up enough for a cask, and they never want to stop drinking.

I just ignore it all now -- the stories are usually bullshit & manipulative. Unfortunately the most you can do for those looking pretty ill (cancers/ulcerations, etc.) is get the police to do a welfare check - but it doesn't change anything unless the police decide the person is an immediate harm to themselves or someone else.

Edited October 10, 2012 by coin

[incognito]

Don't wanna Put a downer on this BUT

If ur giving this guy food and clothing, won't that look bad in ur employers eyes? I mean it could be seen as ahem encouraging bums to loiter.

I'd be more thinking to make contact with local mental health services, homeless shelter etc and express ur concerns for the mans well being.

Im just saying seeing as u have just started the job and you Need it to provide for your fam? What is your employers attitude to the homeless? I'm guessing ur working at a park or a bot garden?

Providing socks and a tin of tuna is honorable and a tip my hat to ye, but it's not really addressing the sitch.

My first port of call would be the local mental health emergency team, just express ur concern for the guys safety.

[Torsten]

whitewind, you intentions are good, but will almost certainly be rejected. I used to volunteer for a lot of homeless programs, streetkid shelters, needle-exchange and condom hand outs, and learnt pretty quickly that most of them do not want any help. There are a lot of options available to them if they do want help. New streetkids are usually the most accepting although they will show it the least because they learn pretty quickly that nothing usually comes for free.

Most of the time everyone just wants money. They claim it is for food, but usually it is for drugs or alcohol.

Quite a few homeless people are actually not poor. When I lived in surry hills there was an asian guy living on the street. Apparently used to be a doctor, then his wife died and he became an alcoholic and didn't want to be in the house anymore. A trustfund was set up and he could make weekly withdrawals to survive - most of which was spent on alcohol or stolen by other homeless people. Similar story with a lady on oxford st who was a bit of an icon there.

When I lived in melbourne I was working in a cafe. I told a few of the local streetkids they could come in for a take away feed near closing time as there was always food that would go to waste. A few were really glad for that opportunity, but most of them didn't care. I would see them using their begged money to buy the same food elsewhere, so i guess it was something to do with pride or independence.

Maybe put the socks and tuna next to him while he is asleep and if you can keep an eye on him see what he does with it from a distance. That might tell you more about whether he is likely to accept help or whether he will just throw the tin at you.

Also, if you don't have a HepB shot then get that asap if you're working with bedding and stuff like that.

[Heretic]

I agree with all the opinions in this thread ; and believe alcoholism and drug addiction are genuine sickness . But it makes me wonder at the morality of affluent western societies , when we spend so much on military and space nonsense , etc , yet unable to provide adequate shelter for those less fortunate . A mate has just told me homelessness exploded in Australia with a change in mental health policy that dumped many people onto the streets .

[chnt]

military nonsense yes, but i wouldn't say that about space, if governments didn't cater to unsustainable big business, didn't waste trillions on military, war, drug prohibition... if economics was based on sustainability... there'd be more than enough to feed everyone and spend obscene amounts on space research and travel.

but war, power, oil and unsustainable growth are very important things.

[Halif]

This is a very interesting thread. I can empathise with Whitewind's feelings of wanting to help, and also with Torsten's, Coin's and other's experiences of things being more complex than meets the eye.

Travelling and living in some developing countries (Indonesia and Cambodia, for example) showed me that there are a lot of people who don't have much. Seeing very small children wandering amongst the traffic and pollution, going up to cars with their hands out, made me want to help out in some way. These kids were born into poverty. But what could I do? Bags full of money wouldn't be enough at all. I could go there every day and hand out wads of cash and it wouldn't change anything in the long run. That's where volunteering programs can be really beneficial.

As for homeless people in affluent nations like ours: Sometimes there's more choice in people's circumstances than one might expect. I don't think many people would choose to sleep on the street, but sometimes people allow it happen to themselves when their motivation and self-respect has been worn down. Then people who are working for a living can decide whether they want to help support people who are down and out, and ask themselves if they want anything in return.

Would you give money to someone if you knew they were going to drink or drug themselves to death with it? If not, why not? Do you want to help them get what they want (oblivion), or are you expecting them to do something that you feel is worthwhile (clean themselves up and become independent again)?

A few days ago I was smoking in the street during my lunch break when a homeless guy asked me if I had a spare cigarette. I said I did and got one out for him. He asked me for another one ("one for now, one for later, ok buddy?"), so I gave him two more ("one for now, one for later, and one for dessert" ). Then he asked me for two more. I could have given him the whole pack, or given him the $50 in my pocket, or my bank card and all my meagre savings. Instead I said "enjoy your cigarettes" and left him. Some people will take and take, and actually don't care much about others.

People's circumstances are complex, as is the issue of charity. I think it's interesting to ask oneself "What do I want out of this?" before giving something to someone.

[dionysus]

i've met a few homeless dudes over the years.i envy them at times, truly abandoning the consumerist lifestyle i (and others) so openly loathe to wander around where they like, sleep when tired not when a work schedule dictates and enjoy the magic of a near-permanently altered consciousness. bliss. plus, how easy is it to get a feed when all you need to do is say "i'm homeless" and some lefty will through a meal and a pair of socks at you. less fortunate? relative to them, surely not.

[incognito]

I got abused by a bum at central when I was a kid. My sis gave me a dollar to give to him, so I put it in his hat and he told

Me he wanted 20 dollars. I walked back to my sister ( I was 7 at the time) and he proceeded to abuse the shit out of both of us until we got outta there.

I've had a bum phobia ever since.

[nabraxas]

welcome to

"Care in the Community"

The number ov homeless on the streets ov London went up drastically when this policy of deinstitutionalization was brought in.

I guess the same would be true here.

People will always slip through ther cracks.

Some can't help themselves, some don't want help.

Homelessness is a huge issue & people on the streets are just the tip ov the iceberg.

There are many more living in squats, hostels, housing associations/co-ops, cars, friends couches, or other short term options.

These are the people that are trying to help themselves & probably the ones who can be most successfully helped.

But as usual it requires resources that never seem to be available, & as they are not "on the street" homeless they are less

ov a priority.

[santiago]

its a kind of damned if you do, damned if you dont situation with street people....one guy i met once gave me his story and i generally oblige downrighters (the term given for when someone directly asks for money as say opposed to window washing or busking for example)...so i gave him the money, 6 months later i met him again, he didnt remember me i think and he had exactly the same speil, i still gave him a fiver and saw in my rear vision mirror him popping into the bottle O. bad generalisation i know but its the truth on this occasion. If you like reading whitewind "The autobiography of a supertramp" and more recent "Into the wild" are good to get certain knowledge and insight into this subject.

There is a CEO sleepout here in Perth, all the head honchos sleep in their sleeping bags at the WACA overnight. Sounds great in theory but what a crock of shit. So with this once yearly token were meant to believe in the CEO's and the system, you can imagine all the CEO's going home to get their little wifey to wash their sleeping bags......."Yep marge i have done my part for society, back to ripping people off and contributing to more homelessness tomorrow"

[IndianDreaming]

What is your employers attitude to the homeless?

 

If the attutude of my employer went against my common sense, I'd be in the wrong job and quit.

Something that really gets my goat, is the scammers that act homeless and prey on peoples' giving nature. It's amazing how low people can stoop for a buck.

[Distracted]

I can emphasize with the need to say fuck you to this society.

When I think of homeless people I think of Diogenes of Sinope.

I remember when the Sydney 2000 olympics were about to happen, the government was afraid all the homeless people sleeping on benches would make the city look bad. Their solution was to slope the benches downward so if people tried to sleep on them they'd fall off. Problem solved! No more homeless sleeping on park benches!

[bℓσωηG]

I often wonder why these characters would choose to dwell on the streets of cities and major towns when there is enough bushland ,forest and beaches to live a fun, peacefull ,sustainable and even profitable existance ...Do they crave attention or is it being close to bottle shops that has influence on where they hangout? Personally if i was homeless and i have been before, id get myself a mobile phone for banking and getting the dole etc.. and go bush , grow a cash crop , get myself out of the gutter and into beautiful nature.

Edited October 11, 2012 by bℓσωηG

[ballzac]

I often wonder why these characters would choose to dwell on the streets of cities and major towns when there is enough bushland ,forest and beaches to live a fun, peacefull ,sustainable and even profitable existance ...Do they crave attention or is it being close to bottle shops that has influence on where they hangout? Personally if i was homeless and i have been before, id get myself a mobile phone for banking and getting the dole etc.. and go bush , grow a cash crop , get myself out of the gutter and into beautiful nature.

 

They're usually people who don't have the life skills to be self-sufficient, and cities are where they can scrounge around living off other people's rubbish.