al-Tair. Posted April 17, 2012 Looks like their banning MXE in the UK... does anyone know the current legal status in terms of importing? And is possession still legal in Vic? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
saguaro Posted April 17, 2012 MXE is illegal, covered under analogue law as it is an analogue of ketamine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
al-Tair. Posted April 17, 2012 That's what I initially assumed, but this post from Torsten suggests otherwise...? http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29933 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
saguaro Posted April 17, 2012 hmm, judging by what was said in that post it would be legal to import and posses in Victoria. But personally I wouldn't risk it. I was reading a post from Torsten a week ago where someone he knew almost had a life sentence for importing chemicals which were held then scheduled, then sent back to the importer. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vual Posted April 17, 2012 cmon mate you should know by now... EVERYTHING is illegal in australia. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LikeAshesWeFade Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) ^^^ Not everything! But usually if it's not listed or is not an analogue.. they will just hold it. Until it is! Then they cumma knockin! Edited April 17, 2012 by LikeAshesWeFade Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
al-Tair. Posted April 17, 2012 Sometimes this country makes me sick... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vual Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) ^^^ Not everything! But usually if it's not listed or is not an analogue.. they will just hold it. Until it is! Then they cumma knockin! ok not everything, lets just say, everything that could have the potential to make you have a epithany against the goverment or some kind of spiritual realisation..... ..is illegal?? so basicly if its... FUN its ILLEGAL lol ya i agree this country makes me sick just cant afford to leave it, i would rather work minimal wages in canada in a fatory then getting paid above award here to put up with our goverment.... But that being said we are the worlds 3rd most saughtafter living destination, US,NZ,AU... find it strange cause NZ beats us but all the kiwis come over here to make a better life 0_o Edited April 18, 2012 by vual 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LikeAshesWeFade Posted April 18, 2012 lol @ your last comment!! couldnt have said it any better myself mate. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) Subtraction of a halogen group with addition of a methoxy group is not covered under Criminal Code analog law unless under section f. (2) A substance is also a border controlled drug if the substance (the drug analogue) is, in relation to a border controlled drug listed in subsection (1) (or a stereoisomer, a structural isomer (with the same constituent groups) or an alkaloid of such a border controlled drug): (a) a stereoisomer; or ( a structural isomer having the same constituent groups; or © an alkaloid; or (d) a structural modification obtained by the addition of one or more of the following groups: (i) alkoxy, cyclic diether, acyl, acyloxy, mono‑amino or dialkylamino groups with up to 6 carbon atoms in any alkyl residue; (ii) alkyl, alkenyl or alkynyl groups with up to 6 carbon atoms in the group, where the group is attached to oxygen (for example, an ester or an ether group), nitrogen, sulphur or carbon; (iii) halogen, hydroxy, nitro or amino groups; or (e) a structural modification obtained in one or more of the following ways: (i) by the replacement of up to 2 carbocyclic or heterocyclic ring structures with different carbocyclic or heterocyclic ring structures; (ii) by the addition of hydrogen atoms to one or more unsaturated bonds; (iii) by the replacement of one or more of the groups specified in paragraph (d) with another such group or groups; (iv) by the conversion of a carboxyl or an ester group into an amide group; or (f) otherwise a homologue, analogue, chemical derivative or substance substantially similar in chemical structure; however obtained, except where the drug analogue is separately listed in subsection (1). But section f cannot apply, because: Ketamine is not a border controlled drug or chemical. 314.4 Border controlled drugs (1) The following table lists border controlled drugs and sets out quantities: Border controlled drugs and quantities Border controlled drugs Marketable quantity (grams) Commercial quantity (kilograms) 1 Acetorphine 2.0 2.0 2 Acetyl‑alpha‑methylfentanyl 0.005 0.005 3 Acetylcodeine 2.0 2.0 4 Acetyldihydrocodeine 2.0 2.0 5 Acetylmethadol 2.0 2.0 6 Allylprodine 2.0 2.0 7 Alphacetylmethadol 10.0 10.0 8 Alphameprodine 0.2 0.2 9 Alphamethadol 0.2 0.2 10 alpha‑Methylfentanyl 0.005 0.005 11 alpha‑Methylthiofentanyl 0.005 0.005 12 Alphaprodine 25.0 25.0 13 Amphecloral 2.0 2.0 14 3‑(2‑Aminopropyl)indole (alpha‑methyltryptamine (AMT)) 2.0 2.0 15 Amphetamine 2.0 0.75 16 Anileridine 25.0 25.0 17 Barbiturates 50.0 5.0 18 Benzethidine 10.0 10.0 19 Benzoylecgonine 2.0 2.0 20 Benzylmorphine 5.0 5.0 21 Betacetylmethadol 5.0 5.0 22 beta‑Hydroxyfentanyl 0.005 0.005 23 beta‑Hydroxy‑3‑methylfentanyl 0.005 0.005 24 Betameprodine 5.0 5.0 25 Betamethadol 5.0 5.0 26 Betaprodine 5.0 5.0 27 Bezitramide 5.0 5.0 28 4‑Bromo‑2,5‑dimethoxyamphetamine 0.5 0.5 29 Bufotenine 2.0 2.0 30 Cannabinoids (other than a Cannabinoid of a kind that can be obtained from a plant that is not a Cannabis plant) 2.0 2.0 31 Cannabis (in any form, including flowering or fruiting tops, leaves, seeds or stalks, but not including Cannabis resin or Cannabis fibre) 25,000.0 100.0 32 Cannabis resin 20.0 50.0 33 Chlorphentermine 2.0 2.0 34 Clonitazene 5.0 5.0 35 Cocaine 2.0 2.0 36 Codeine 10.0 10.0 37 Codeine‑N‑oxide 10.0 10.0 38 Codoxime 10.0 10.0 39 Desomorphine 2.0 2.0 40 Dexamphetamine 2.0 2.0 41 Dextromoramide 2.0 2.0 42 2,5‑Dimethoxy‑4‑n‑propylthiophenethylamine (2C‑T‑7) 0.5 0.5 43 2,5‑Dimethoxy‑4‑ethylthiophenethylamine (2C‑T‑2) 0.5 0.5 44 2,5‑Dimethoxy‑4‑iodophenethylamine (2C‑I) 0.5 0.5 45 Diampromide 5.0 5.0 46 Diethylpropion 5.0 5.0 47 Diethylthiambutene 5.0 5.0 48 N,N‑Diethyltryptamine 2.0 2.0 49 Difenoxin 2.0 2.0 50 Dihydrocodeine 10.0 10.0 51 Dihydromorphine 10.0 10.0 52 Dimenoxadol 10.0 10.0 53 Dimepheptanol 10.0 10.0 54 2,5‑Dimethoxy‑4‑methylamphetamine 2.0 0.75 55 1‑Dimethylamino‑1,2‑diphenylethane 5.0 5.0 56 Dimethylthiambutene 20.0 20.0 57 N,N‑Dimethyltryptamine 2.0 2.0 58 Dioxaphetyl butyrate 2.0 2.0 59 Diphenoxylate 2.0 2.0 60 Dipipanone 10.0 10.0 61 Drotebanol 2.0 2.0 62 Ecgonine 10.0 10.0 63 Ethchlorvynol 50.0 50.0 64 Ethinamate 50.0 50.0 65 Ethylmethylthiambutene 10.0 10.0 66 Ethylmorphine 2.0 2.0 67 Etonitazene 5.0 5.0 68 Etorphine 5.0 5.0 69 Etoxeridine 5.0 5.0 70 Fentanyl 0.005 0.005 71 Furethidine 1.0 1.0 72 Gammabutyrolactone (GBL) 2.0 1.0 73 Glutethimide 50.0 50.0 74 Harmaline 2.0 5.0 75 Harmine 2.0 5.0 76 Heroin (diacetylmorphine) 2.0 1.5 77 Hydrocodone 2.0 2.0 78 Hydromorphinol 2.0 2.0 79 Hydromorphone 2.0 2.0 80 Hydroxyamphetamine 2.0 2.0 81 4‑Hydroxybutanoic acid (GHB) 2.0 1.0 82 Hydroxypethidine 5.0 5.0 83 Isomethadone 2.0 2.0 84 Ketobemidone 2.0 2.0 85 Levophenacylmorphan 2.0 2.0 86 Levomethorphan, but not including dextromethorphan 2.0 2.0 87 Levorphanol, but not including dextrorphan 1.0 1.0 88 Lysergamide 0.1 0.01 89 Lysergide (LSD) 0.002 0.002 90 Meprobamate 50.0 50.0 91 Mescaline 7.5 7.5 92 Metazocine 7.0 7.0 93 Methadone 2.0 2.0 94 Methaqualone 50.0 5.0 95 Methcathinone 96 Methorphan, but not including dextromethorphan 2.0 2.0 97 5‑Methoxy‑alpha‑methyltryptamine (5‑MeO‑AMT) 2.0 2.0 98 5‑Methoxy‑N,N‑diisopropyltryptamine (5‑MeO‑DiPT) 2.0 2.0 99 Methamphetamine 2.0 0.75 100 3,4‑Methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA) 0.5 0.75 101 3,4‑Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) 0.5 0.5 102 Methyldesorphine 2.0 2.0 103 Methyldihydromorphine 2.0 2.0 104 3‑Methylfentanyl 0.005 0.005 105 Methylphenidate 2.0 2.0 106 1‑Methyl‑4‑phenyl‑4‑propionoxypiperidine (MPPP) 2.0 2.0 107 3‑Methylthiofentanyl 0.005 0.005 108 Methyprylon 50.0 50.0 109 Metopon 2.0 2.0 110 Monoacetylmorphines 2.0 2.0 111 Moramide 2.0 2.0 112 Morphan, but not including dextrorphan 2.0 2.0 113 Morpheridine 2.0 2.0 114 Morphine 2.0 1.5 115 Morphine‑N‑oxide 2.0 2.0 116 Myrophine 20.0 20.0 117 Nicocodine 2.0 2.0 118 Nicodicodine 2.0 2.0 119 Nicomorphine 2.0 2.0 120 Noracymethadol 2.0 2.0 121 Norcodeine 2.0 2.0 122 Norlevorphanol 2.0 2.0 123 Normethadone 5.0 5.0 124 Normorphine 20.0 20.0 125 Norpipanone 10.0 10.0 126 Opium 20.0 20.0 127 Oxycodone 5.0 5.0 128 Oxymorphone 2.0 2.0 129 para‑Fluorofentanyl 0.005 0.005 130 Pentazocine 20.0 20.0 131 Pethidine 10.0 10.0 132 Phenadoxone 10.0 10.0 133 Phenampromide 10.0 10.0 134 Phenazocine 1.0 1.0 135 Phencyclidine 2.0 2.0 136 Phendimetrazine 5.0 5.0 137 Phenmetrazine 5.0 5.0 138 Phenomorphan 5.0 5.0 139 Phenoperidine 1.0 1.0 140 Phentermine 5.0 5.0 141 1‑Phenylethyl‑4‑phenyl‑4‑acetoxypiperidine (PEPAP) 2.0 2.0 142 Pholcodine 5.0 5.0 143 Piminodine 10.0 10.0 148 Propiram 10.0 10.0 149 Psilocine 0.1 0.1 150 Psilocybine 0.1 0.1 151 Tetrahydrocannabinols 2.0 5.0 152 Thebacon 2.0 2.0 153 Thebaine 2.0 2.0 154 Thiofentanyl 0.005 0.005 155 Trimeperidine 144 Pipradrol 1.0 1.0 145 Piritramide 1.0 1.0 146 Proheptazine 1.0 1.0 147 Properidine 25.0 25.0 Ketamine IS a customs prohibited import under "drugs" schedule 4, customs (prohibited imports regulations), 112C (recently added). The relevant "analog clause" to these regulations is spelt out on the customs webpage: isomers or mixture of isomers of a controlled chemicals or compounds; a derivative of a controlled chemical or compound, including isomers and mixtures of isomers; substances or things that contain controlled chemical/s or compound/s, including isomers and mixtures of isomers, and derivatives; or other chemicals and compounds that are an immediate precursor to a controlled chemical or compound. This would NOT include MXE. Lastly, on a federal level, Ketamine is listed as Schedule 8 drug under SUSMDP, which has a similar "analog clause" as the one just cited. Thus it appears federally that MXE is legal to import and possess, is not customs or border controlled. NOW, onto the issue of STATE regulation: A lot of states, all of them, enact the SUSMP, and have Ketamine listed as a schedule 8 drug in their Drugs legislation. A lot of states have borrowed analog legislation from the Criminal code, which means that a lot of states theoretically could have MXE illegal under a section similar to section "f" of the criminal code analog clause: (f) otherwise a homologue, analogue, chemical derivative or substance substantially similar in chemical structure; In which case you could fall foul of being in possession of a Schedule 8 analogue. The good news, from which I gather from myself and Torsten, is that neither VIC nor WA have an attached analog clause to their Drugs legislation or affixed to their references of the SUSMP. I must add that I am not familiar with state analog clauses, and I doubt that any of them are stronger worded than the criminal code analog clause. Therefore in WA and VIC MXE is legal to possess, even to sell. And in every other state it falls into the greyest of grey areas, could not be greyer, perhaps not even grey at all if the analog clause is weak... and the laws would probably only be enacted if you were caught selling or with a commercial quantity. Edited April 18, 2012 by Thelema 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chnt Posted April 18, 2012 if that ^ is really the case then i am pretty interested in ordering some. but it would definitely have to be legal for me to want to attempt to. interesting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vual Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Where are the risk taking entrepreneurs when you need them. this is interesting..... very..... Edited April 19, 2012 by vual Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
al-Tair. Posted April 28, 2012 Thelema, thanks for that info. It's interesting that you don't see more of it available in Vic (can't speak for WA). Would love to hear Torsten's take on this... One would think that if it were that clear cut, it would be available in your local head shop. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slybacon Posted May 1, 2012 But...... it IS an analog of PCP ????? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Polanish Posted May 1, 2012 Believe me, it's illegal. HIGHLY unlikely you'd ever get anything for it though, max you'd get it probably love letter if you're unlucky. And from what Torsten's told me, and what I've learnt from Australian Drug Discussion over at bluelight.ru forums, analouge laws are very vague and cover everything. But honestly, I highly doubt if you have a personal amount, that you'd get anything. Even being caught on import you'd be fine. But then again, seems to be a lot of people here who'd rather not take the risk, which is way too sensible! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted May 4, 2012 It seems that my interpretation of the SUSMP analog "derivatives" definition was way too conservative. I've just found out that in the SUSMP they have a paragraph which discusses the meaning of "derivative" as it applies to the SUSMP, here's what it says: It is important to remember that a Schedule entry includes preparations containing the poison in any concentration and all salts and derivatives of the poison unless it specifically states otherwise. (See Interpretation PART 1 [paragraph 1(2)]). It is important to note that a substance is not classed as a derivative on the basis of a single, prescriptive set of criteria. Classification of a substance as a derivative of a Scheduled poison relies on a balanced consideration of factors to decide if a substance has a similar nature (e.g. structurally, pharmacologically, toxicologically) to a Scheduled poison or is readily converted (either physically or chemically) to a Scheduled poison. However, a substance is only considered a derivative of a Scheduled poison if it is not individually listed elsewhere in the Schedules, or captured by a more restrictive group or class entry. Additionally, some entries specifically exclude derivatives. Once a substance is determined to be a derivative of a Scheduled poison, the same scheduling requirements as the Scheduled poison, including limits on access, supply and availability, will apply So it seems that MXE probably under this definition will be a derivative of Ketamine, which is listed as a schedule 8. Believe me, it's illegal. Well, the question is the precise NATURE of it's illegality. As far as I can see, it is NOT illegal to import federally under the customs act nor the criminal code, but it MAY be illegal to possess under SUSMP analog clauses. So no, customs would have no right to with-hold it from you, but technically you might be in violation of the SUSMP schedule 8 possession-without-entitlement penalties as they apply in different states (whether under poisons schedules, most likely, or drug schedules). I have no idea if people have been charged at a state level using SUSMP derivative enacted legislation, but my feeling is that this piece of legislation, centering around this definition, has NEVER been tested in courts for possession. Therefore, it is quite dogmatic to say it is illegal without any qualification. In fact, the Scheduling committee must feel that this piece of definitional legislation is so vague, that they occassionally schedule things that they think may be covered anyway under the definition. A good case in point is the recent May 1st 2012 ban of MDPV. So all in all, YES, it COULD be argued in court that it is a schedule 8 derivative, but it is LEGAL to impot into the country. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dromedary Posted July 5, 2012 The preceding information in this thread is outdated! Since 18 May 2012 Ketamine is now a border controlled drug listed in the Criminal Code Act 1995 and that means that MXE no longer gets a free pass through the analogue catch-all clause at this level of legislation. MXE is now, at best, in a legal grey area at the Commonwealth level. This change was slipped through parliament with a huge number of other completely unrelated acts and was not the focus of much discussion. There was a brief mention of quantities and purity which suggests that this amendment was not made to specifically target MXE, though it will probably still be used that way: This item also inserts two quantities for Ketamine: a marketable quantity of 3.0 grams, and a commercial quantity of 1.0 kilograms. These quantities are pure quantities. This is relevant where a prosecution relates to a quantity of Ketamine contained in a mixture of other substances. In such a case, the prosecution will need to prove that the mixture contained the relevant threshold quantity of pure Ketamine. Sources: Hansard Criminal Code Act 1995 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted July 5, 2012 yeah I thought I read about that somewhere. The plain thing is tho - people have been having MXE witheld from them via customs for ages now - without any letter on which to be able to base the reasons as to why they're with-holding it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anodyne Posted July 6, 2012 Thanks for the update dromedary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dromedary Posted July 6, 2012 yeah I thought I read about that somewhere. The plain thing is tho - people have been having MXE witheld from them via customs for ages now - without any letter on which to be able to base the reasons as to why they're with-holding it. Yep. It shouldn't come as a huge surprise that if customs find a powder they're going to hold it until they can test it, and with the booming online RC market accelerating the volume and range of incoming substances we can expect backlogs as work piles up on the chemists, lawyers and law enforcement officials involved with the complex investigative process. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted July 6, 2012 lol! so what happens if MXE was technically legal but they confiscated it ? Are they going to pass it on 6 months later? That's a joke, right? More likely than not there's no chemical investigations, no legal investiation, just a huge "bin" that customs drop shit into that they're not going to send a letter about. I still can't quite believe it myself, I'm considering a freedom of information disclosure about this whole thing. Messing with people's post at least deserves a letter, unless it's plainly illegal marketable/commercial quantities of non-analogue drugs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted July 9, 2012 lol! so what happens if MXE was technically legal but they confiscated it ? Are they going to pass it on 6 months later? That's a joke, right? that's exactly what has happened in 3 separate other incidences in the last year, one of them rather close to home . seems to be the new modus operandi to discourage people who are exploiting loopholes or slow legislation. In most cases the initial offence can't stick, but if they raid you 24h later and you're still in possession then your f*cked. In any case, it gains them entry and then they usually find something else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoptis Posted August 11, 2012 But honestly, I highly doubt if you have a personal amount, that you'd get anything. Even being caught on import you'd be fine. I would suggest to never, ever make this assumption when it comes to customs law. When the ACC/AFP/CDPP decide they want to make an example out of someone you could be that unlucky person who's parcel is picked out. What follows will depend on your circumstances and resources but even personal importation of border-controlled substances carry maximums of two years imprisonment (unlikely of course) but even a small fine might come with a conviction. The last few years have shown that relying on a substance being in a "legal grey area" is a fool's gamble. Under law, ignorance is not an excuse. In the Commonwealth Criminal Code, mistake of fact is not a defence for crimes of strict or absolute liability for which importation is one of them. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bread Filter Posted August 11, 2012 I would suggest to never, ever make this assumption when it comes to customs law. When the ACC/AFP/CDPP decide they want to make an example out of someone you could be that unlucky person who's parcel is picked out. What follows will depend on your circumstances and resources but even personal importation of border-controlled substances carry maximums of two years imprisonment (unlikely of course) but even a small fine might come with a conviction. The last few years have shown that relying on a substance being in a "legal grey area" is a fool's gamble. Under law, ignorance is not an excuse. In the Commonwealth Criminal Code, mistake of fact is not a defence for crimes of strict or absolute liability for which importation is one of them. Dude are you THE hoptis from Bluelight? If so we are very lucky to have you posting here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halif Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) ^yes, i agree, Bread Filter. And that was a good post, Hoptis. It is not wise to assume that one is immune to the law of 'example making'. The odds may not be bad, but it is never risk-free. Edited August 12, 2012 by Halif Share this post Link to post Share on other sites