talking with god

[botanika]

I talk to my wife often

[Gunter]

Theophanic tendencies often cover or hide a subtely distressed presence that dodges the dramas and pains of embodiment by dissociating into etheric states and principles... by drowning out reality with an escapist consensual imaginarium. If i was Blake and did see the universe in a grain of sand i'd ask, well what does this change in my life, with my feet on the ground?.. Universe, god, be more pragmatic!?!

 

can you translate that for me?

what are you saying?

[ThunderIdeal]

i reckon it's to do with over-lofty spirituality. i can't use such fancy words but i have had similar thoughts because i am one of the offenders in question, to some degree. head in the clouds and up my own ass too, meanwhile missing genuine opportunities for human growth.

[drugo]

can you translate that for me?

what are you saying?

 

Sorry, I did write it from my phone. Though it still does looks pretty clear to me. What part aren't you's getting?

I just thought that I should mention certain psychodynamics which are often (*but not always) associated with those of a theophanic persuasion-- the drive to 'meet' God, become God, ascend to the heavens, dissolve the self and personality into God etc. (God as the All in All).

It is well documented that people commonly (unconsciously and/or consciously) turn to religion and spirituality from a position of lack, failure, social and family alienation including the subsequent ill-emotions that come with these types of typical human challenges. Theophanic quests may appear attractive to those who feel 'out of place' in the world. What better answer to feeling out of place than to 'ascend' out of this place.

This form of escapism tends to be supported by group or consensual cultural codes, myths and roles - the bolstered individual striving to be God (to be 'every-thing' as opposed to 'some-thing') and the similar individual who is professing 'absolute' truth both find a new home among similar psychopathological characters -- folks who tend to compete with and feed on the cultural capital (status) of each other -- ironically continuing to live alienated from themselves and each other. For an example

--*read the following with an arrogant messianic tone--

("I am not me, I am the all" -- "I am beyond the self, beyond social dynamics, I am THE dynamic of All, the Almighty Self, God, and therefore I do not have to consider other 'selves' as I am The Self of everything").

This not considering the 'other' is commonly discussed in the discourse on narcissism; self-inflated egomaniacs. One of the common problems in the case discussed above, is that the everyday challenges of embodied spiritual realities (interpersonal negotiation, ethical harmony, work, family, and sense of place in the world) are replaced by shallow narratives of otherworldly ecstacy and God-All-Mightiness; the ultimate power 'above and beyond this pesky earth realm'. The world is denied as the initially alienated person becomes more alone in their self-obsessed yet culturally validated disorder. "I am the All, not held responsible for MY past, my family and friend relationships, my work disputes, my interaction with the law, because I am **THE LAW of LAWS**, and am GOD o mighty! That is, I am not personal, I am transpersonal, God.

................

This map of social-individual sickness very roughly describes what is perhaps the greatest disease of contemporary western spirituality - including entheogenic circles. Though having said all that, not all people who desire to be touched by the hand of God, explore the divine erotic with an angel, melt into the God-head etc. are wounded life-escapists (yet as I mentioned, currents of narcissistic escapism appear to dominate much new-age (inc. entheogenic) thought and practice, and it takes practice and the right perspectives to see this in its subtleties and dramatic moments).

In response to this epic malady that cripples our social sphere like cancer, I acknowledge that we are pack-animals, and work better attuned as collectives rather than each alienated as narcissistic messianic escapists, and there I advocate an embodied, grounded in the 'here and now', sensual and interpersonal spirituality that participates in the unfolding of being while remaining anchored here on earth, as "a" being that is separate and unified to "the" being, God. As Terence Mckenna said, it is the differences which make the world the wondrous and magnificent place it is -- He appears to be saying, be wary of people who are advocating a 'becoming-all' process for humanity, that is, a becoming God or All (as in the 'ultimate similarity', the All in All). Chances are these people are narcissistic escapists trying to feed of your insecurities by professing a wonky authority that is apparently backed up by access to 'being Everything'... how messianic and deranged can you get???

Also, in response to the division between micro-cosm and macro-cosm, self and all, Henry Corbin the French philosopher cum Persian mystic speaks of the mutual resonance between perceiving and being. In order to see an angel, you must be an angel. If you happen to stumble upon an angel, reflect back on yourself and see how you are, chances are you'll be an angel too! Same goes with witnessing beauty and ugliness in the world; it is a kind of calibrated mutual harmony between self and other. Therefore the division between man and god is not necessarily a hindrance.

anyway,,,,,,,, so hopefully my original comment is a bit clearer now??

If i was Blake and did see the universe in a grain of sand i'd ask, well what does this change in my life, with my feet on the ground?.. Universe, god, be more pragmatic (or practical)!?!

[mescalito]

Montague's Message for Sunday, 13th March 2011

Your world progresses through the many changes that are necessary for you, to fully wake up out of the darkness, and see the Light that you have been deprived of, so that the Dark Cabal could keep you all in a state of hypnotic confusion. They used every method at their disposal: religion, education, etc, to make you conform. In later years, TV and newspapers also. They all created a false sense of how you should live your lives, what your aims should be. You were not considered successful if you did not conform to their standards. The reality that you have been brainwashed into accepting, is governed by commerce, weapons of mass destruction, and armies, which are conned into believing that they die honourably for their countries; when in reality, they are blood sacrifices, demanded by their Satanic superiors.

What you are seeing now, is the Dark Cabal losing control. They are falling apart. They are creating such mayhem, as they desperately try to show that they are still in control. Japan was a successful country. The Dark Cabal do not like such success, they have ways of destroying what is good. They have no regard for human life. To them, it is a way of culling the population and using it as a warning to the rest of the world. I saw how distressed you became when you saw the terrible destruction, the helplessness of the people. You have had many Japanese friends whom you held in high regard. I ask everyone, to please send love and assistance to your fellow beings of light in Japan. You are all One. A disaster of such proportions brings this home to you. It brings everyone together once more, irrespective of colour or creed. Japan will rise above what has been visited upon it. They are a proud and honest people. Assistance will be forthcoming. I promise that those who have come to Spirit from Japan, had completed their work on Earth. They are now coming to terms with their new surroundings. Their concern is for those they left behind; for indeed, it is they who are suffering. Why don't as many of you as possible, offer a safe environment to those who are now homeless, until such time as the government can organise the rebuilding of the country. It is an opportunity to reach out to your fellow human beings, and for the rest of the world to act as one, and to be there for each other.

The Dark Cabal are also using the bible to pretend that the End of Time approaches. This is not so. What is actually happening is the end of their reign of terror and suppression. The bible is not what you are led to believe it is. It does not teach love and tolerance. The God of Love does not destroy anyone or anything. What is needed is for all souls to be brave, to come out of the darkness. Seek the truth. There are many out there, as well as avenues to follow, that will guide you to the right path. Seek those who speak truth and light. David Icke is a prime example of this. There are many out there, who have devoted their lives to guiding the human race to light and love.

You have experienced the energy shift on the 11th. Many of you had strange experiences leading up to this, just as you did, my dear. The unexplained exhaustion, parts of the body vibrating, unexplained pain in various parts of the body. All were desperately wanting to sleep. You began questioning everything.

Your bodies are adapting to the new DNA; which in turn, will take you to full consciousness. Scientists are fully aware of these changes but the information has been kept from you. You are being helped and guided by your friends on other planets, as well as angels, whose remit is to guide you forward.

Do not seek medical help, you would be given drugs. This transition is new to them. Their only answer is drugs, and you do not need them. Look to energy medicine, vitamins, herbs, etc. They are the only medicine you require. Now, perhaps you understand why your governments are removing these natural remedies from you. This is an evil act against all of you. You are being denied what your bodies need at this time. Why did people just accept this without protest? Find your voice. Let your governments know that you insist on having your natural remedies. Refuse to support them. They will be removed. Their evil reign is at an end. We all know who they are, they are not fit to be in your world. They have destroyed all that was good.

Thank you, Veronica, for bringing Richard D Hall (RichPlanet.net) and Tony Kilvert together, to reveal many of the secrets of the Dark Cabal's control. It can be an important step for many who are seeking answers to questions that have intrigued them for years. Enlightenment is arriving from all directions. Welcome the many changes.Use the power of love to defuse the power of darkness. Remove fear. Love and accept yourselves, then you will find it easy to love your fellow beings, as together you experience your New Beginning.

Every thought has an energy. Send your thoughts to all who need help. Learn to adapt to the great beings of Light, you truly are.

Know that I am beside you, to help you through the changing times. I am your adoring husband, Monty.

Source

[random]

Freaky and strangely true in some regards, not that I believe all that was said.

But that energy shift on the 11th startled me as I had all the symptoms mentioned and also big changes happened in my life.

So yeah interesting reading but not sure I believe in prophets. I'd rather believe in myself.

[folias]

Telepathogen,

I've recently been feeling quite... critical and cynical of the so-called "spiritual" set. (not that I never have not actually!)

I feel the real work and healing lies in developing mature interpersonal codes. I do not believe our present inter personal codes are at all mature.

Many of the "spiritualists" do not accept their own sickness. but many do!

consider Rak when he drank with the Shipibo women!

http://www.realitysandwich.com/aya_healing

"I can finally feel that I'm sick, and being healed, and this knowledge fills me with joy."

Someone like myself, takes it as a given the sickness is present! And yet society runs/feeds on denial and our society is so clearly sick. Would you like statistics with that?

It is no wonder that westerners become "spiritual materialists" "seekers" etc.

Having said that, the primary message people get from smoking DMT, is an understanding that they are part and ARE a unified being, which can be called god.

It is a beautiful experience to have, and should be humbling and grounding.

The problem with Ayahuasca say, is that the ego can often be inflated and people can easily become enamoured with power - but human beings will be human beings.

Julian.

Edited March 27, 2011 by folias

[incognito]

Becoming God and talking AS God. dissolves human created boundaries to THAT. Talking TO God presupposes a separation from THAT

fucking oprah said that last tuesday.

i bet u r oprahs illuminati spy.

[incognito]

one story could offer u tst, ill never forget it, was quite chilling.

when i was a kid my dad stocked two of our dams with yellow-belly fingerlings (baby fish lol)

anyways after about 2 years i started to go for a fish. every day after school.

for about 6 months. it was quite a meditive moment really, and i guess in hindsight i was going quiet deeply into my own head, without even knowing it. i was in just a full- cosmic zone.

i would just be transfixed to the water, still as waiting for a bite, thinking about everything and anything. I dreamt and saw many bites but never a real one.Never a fish which i had envisioned a s some glorious sumptuos specimen that would give a tremendous fight, that would win me accolades when i got home and showed my family, and took a photo to show my mates at school.

Anyways one arvo, i like made a pact with god lol. well i was an alter boy at the time lol

i was like " right, if ther is a god, i will catch a fish. ill tell everyone. thats all ill do for the rest of my life, if there isnt, fuck it, i wont worry about that at all and ur not real" i swaer on my very peyote collection that as soon as that thought finished BANG. i caught yeallowbelly. then another. six later in quick succesion i was so hyped up and astounded was a total spiritual experience. was real powerful.

the odds where in my favour, dad put like 2000 fingerlings in the small farm dam, but...still.

Edited March 25, 2011 by incognito

[random]

Becoming God and talking as God doesn't appeal to me whatsoever

[incognito]

well why the crumpet did u post?

[synchromesh]

I talk with a god on a regular basis. And although he's a little backwards, he's still a good friend to me.

Woof.

[mescalito]

Thanks Jono for sharing as I agree that you manifested your mighty catch indeedy by defying instead of mechanised thought patterns and your wanting to break away from Dogma.

Folias thanks too,all makes sense to me mate.

Meeka you're not the only one who felt this and something freaky happened here on the 11th as our opposition to our rights tried to defy us once more in a major assault,say no more

Here's something freaky,long story short I had a strange dream upon awakening today where my partner was holding a Catholic book with 127 daily exercises written on it and a man in a blue suit,say 60's style amongst other things(Sirens trying to allude me and other "trivia").I woke up with bloody Johnny Young's "Tomorrow I'll miss you" in my head man I hate that LOL

Still need the connection with that one!

So I search and find:

"Verse 127. Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold. As it was God's time to work so it was David's time to love. So far from being swayed by the example of evil men, so as to join them in slighting the Scriptures, he was the rather led into a more vehement love of them. As he saw the commandments slighted by the ungodly, his heart was in sympathy with God, and he felt a burning affection for his holy precepts. It is the mark of a true believer that he does not depend upon others for his religion, but drinks water out of his own well, which springs up even when the cisterns of earth are all dried. Our holy poet amid a general depreciation of the law felt his own esteem of it rising so high that gold and silver sank in comparison. Wealth brings with it so many conveniences that men naturally esteem it, and gold as the symbol of it is much set by; and yet, in the judgment of the wise, God's laws are more enriching, and bring with them more comfort than all the choicest treasures. The Psalmist could not boast that he always kept the commands; but he could declare that he loved them; he was perfect in heart, and would fain have been perfect in life. He judged God's holy commands to be better than the best earthly thing, yea, better than the best sort of the best earthly thing; and this esteem was confirmed and forced into expression by those very oppositions of the world which drive hypocrites to forsake the Lord and his ways."

Then I get an email from my good friend first thing,as we were recently talking about the school system/religion/control and how we were/are going to Home-School Maya.

Here's what he sent me

The Horrors of Public Education-2.html

I guess i'm saying that as things are falling into place,some must fall apart,but this must be the way.

You wouldn't believe how much change is happening,some fob it off and go on with life,some are quite surprised,but fall back into their "Slumber" too easy....some can't help but keep digging and collecting info to make the picture recognisable

The Horrors of Public Education-2.html

The Horrors of Public Education-2.html

[random]

That was beautiful and touching mescalito, thankyou for sharing.

That message wasn't only meant for you either as i'm sure you're aware, and I love it when people take note of their dreams and identify their purpose.

[incognito]

wanting to break away from Dogma

noooooo i really dug church and bein an alter boy!! ive secretly ever since craved one of those funky white robes!! my problem with it was it got boring ater a while. a catholic mass doesnt change up much, and by year 5 i could say a catholic mass off by heart!!

i was kinda dissasociated from the whole mass though, i believe even the father was. he just really rolled through the motions. It was though my first encounter with meditation and the notion of something 'sacred', and really got me thinking about my own spirituality. I knew there where flaws in what was being being preached, but as a whole it was a really positive experience.

oh how i miss them bells, candle putter-outerer (yes thats what it was called lol, and that swingin incense contraption...

[etherealdrifter]

I see a lot of Gestalt here but no-ones mentioned it.....so i took the liberty.

No smart arseness ....just how i perceive some points(and very relevant points too mind you )

>http://www.usask.ca/education/coursework/skaalid/theory/gestalt/gestalt.htm

peace

[random]

Whats with this learning thing anyway, now I gotta look up Gestalt ? Ok. I'll go check it out

[incognito]

oh no! no more d grade psychology ahhhhhhhh!

[planthelper]

you need a +4, and when you talk with god, you might talk to the god inside of you (which might make you understand how much better your brain works, when it's on some halus), anyway this god voice is very smart and careing and loving and has a female voice.

you know it's god, when she say's she is god.

other forces never claim to be god.

god, is probably a thing which is in all things, but it probably is made out of things which sience will struggle to understand for a long time, maybe never.

but ther is no judgemental god or any of that.

[etherealdrifter]

oh no! no more d grade psychology ahhhhhhhh!

 

>haahaa, fair enough incog ....i've been a little too introspective lately -

It's just that i'm sure many here have gone full circle with this debate over the years and i'm guessing still reach the same conclusion.

For me....'Breaking through' in the right settings - just makes me ask more q's ....hmmm suppose that's the whole point of +4's as PH said.

the idea that the 'whole' , especially with regards to perception , still to me dominates and gives meaning to the 'parts'.

Maybe ..it's comforting to me? Dunno.

Hey what did the agnostic dyslexic say to the priest?

Is their a dog?

[ThunderIdeal]

you know it's god, when she say's she is god.

other forces never claim to be god.

 

i claim to be god if you are right then i am

i dispute that anyway. not because of any personal experience, just that many schizophrenics hear voices claiming to be god or the devil, at least i'm pretty sure that's the case. reality is such an enormous, incredible and mysterious thing to be a part of, how can you really know god is talking to you because the voice says that's who they are?

[The Dude]

I think there is a difference between hearing a voice of god and hearing the voice of god. Unity and all that, it is an unquestionably real experience. Witnessing the underlying and unchangeable essence of all things is not the same as seeing god as any particular concept/thing.

[hutch]

I was thinking that to understand GOD would be like an ant trying to perceive a human...it doesn't have the capacity....Do we have the capacity to understand GOD? I don't think so and I think it is that way for a good reason...I don't know what it is but when I am returned to GOD I will have all the answers to all the questions ever thought of and then some. Until then like every body else on this piece of rock I am just guessing.

[mutant]

1. god is everything, including each and one of us.

2. man talking to god

THIS MEANS

1. people and god are stuck in a multipersonality situation and individuality is an illusion.

2. people/god are psychotic, and are hearing voices. Why not think instead of talking to oneself?

Dunno, something is seriously wrong with these concepts.

And yep, meeka

because we are so fucking same as one god and united with each other, that's why we love each other so much...... NOT!!!

wishful, theist, thinking.

it's ok if you feel god is mankind. Cause man is the bastard you know.

but talking to oneself and calling it "god"??

sounds like theist spirituality

god is not loving, man is not loving.

the equilibrium of nature is not loving, it just is.

"love need not be a command. we are here to kill war. we are here to drink beer"

Charles Bukowski

Incognito>> that explains it all. our past explains it all better than any fucking spirit or god ANYDAY.

altar boy lol...

PS:

i dispute that anyway. not because of any personal experience, just that many schizophrenics hear voices claiming to be god or the devil, at least i'm pretty sure that's the case. reality is such an enormous, incredible and mysterious thing to be a part of, how can you really know god is talking to you because the voice says that's who they are?

fuck I never get positive votes for saying that!!

see TI, you're coming to realise I was right.

Edited April 13, 2011 by mutant

[ThunderIdeal]

i don't think either of us are right, that's the difference between you and me. you might express a similar kind of uncertainty at times, but you are actually very confident that you've got it all figured out and that is what shines through most of the time. theist.

Edited April 13, 2011 by ThunderIdeal