Buying a 4WD

[tripsis]

I'm in the market for a second hand 4WD. It has to be diesel and reliable and preferably no older than 1990. My budget is no more than 15k and even then, I'd have to get a loan or save for some time before I could afford that.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about cars in general, nor 4WDs specifically. I've been looking at Toyota Landcruisers and Range Rovers under the assumption that they are the best. Is that correct? Are there any others I should look at. I'm wanting it to be our main car, but also be capable of doing long trips around Australia, going off track, etc.

I've noticed that looking at diesel Landcruisers, made in 1990 or after, they have all done well past 200000km, even past 500000. Now that seems a lot to me, but what are the engines capable of?

What do I need to look for when looking at 4WDs? Obviously, having been trashed off road regularly is not good, nor is use in salt water.

Advice appreciated.

[Jumpstarter]

Hey Trip,

I have been looking into buying a 4x4 also, my main focus is on the Jeep Wrangler and Toyota Hilux Surf, both come in Turbo Diesel.

The Wrangler Diesel is fairly expensive and start at around 25k, hence why im looking at the petrol model starting at around 5-6k with rather low kms.

The Hilux are a bit bigger than the Wranglers and alot cheaper, so check them out mate.

Also for a day to day vehicle the Suzuki XL-7 is a nice comfortable 4x4.

Just depends on what looks you are into.

Happy hunting,

JS

[GoOnThen]

You need to watch out for ex mine land cruisers.

You also have to think about the fact that car that has done 200 + kms it is not just the engine but the whole car could be worn and loose especially on a 4WD things like suspension and steering bushes will need replacing if not already done.

200 thousand Kms isnt a lot for a diesel engine that has been looked after so it depends on its history

If you are spending 15K on a 4WD spend a little on an independent inspection report as the cost of rebuilding a diesel engine can run into 10K or more. Diesel injection systems, tyres, gearbox, brakes, steering, transfer box and front and rear diffs can all be expensive repairs.

If you find a good land cruiser and you look after it she will take you anywhere you want to go.

If you end up with a dog it will be a money pit and will break down when you need it the most.

I would by an older lower kms and good history car over the later high km model.

Cheers

Got

[applesnail]

Buy a landcruiser tough as nails my mate drove one off kuranda range bent the chasis towed it out and drove home or a nissan navara or hilux go japanese mate wranglers fall apart another one of my mates brought a new jeep(brand spanker nothing but trouble with it a total piece of crap 2days after owning it someone slashed his soft top and stole his stereo!...range rovers suck also,well from what ive heard they can be unreliable..Im a nissan man i got a pathfinder best investment ever, after writing off a honda prelude through someones fence i decided i needed a vehicle with a bullbar and have never looked back, would never own nothing but a 4WD ever again can go anywhere @ anytime which makes for great camping!

[Magicdirt]

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Edited May 8, 2011 by Magicdirt

[tripsis]

Jeeps, utes and city 4WDs are not what I'm after. I'm looking for a car that can take me off road in almost any condition and come fine the other side.

I figured as much Got, but how do you know the history of a car? Believe the owner? I wouldn't get a car without an independent inspection report, so I guess any major issues should become apparent then.

so do you think it's worth looking at pre-1990 Landcruisers then?

[applesnail]

You need to find a honest chap selling his vehicle, one thing to bear in mind alot of old cruisers have been thrashed, after all they are a work vehicle...i wouldnt buy nothing over 200k on the dash,(remembering to rebuild an engine will be 10k, it cost me 4k for a new gearbox in my pathfinder) you need to find an old fellow who has looked after his 4wd and only used it to tow his boat for fishing on sundays!...gd luck with that, but they are out there seek & ye shall find!

[altenate]

My 2 cents worth

Pre 90s land cruiser, not so sure about.been around for a while hence the problem.

You would end up spending money, no matter how well it was kept, small things such as electrics, door seals,window winders, bushes etc.

Mid 90s would be my minimum. Also depends on the suspension type - leaf or springs & coils? A fourby will cost money though - but so worth it

Personally think a hilux dual cab with a canopy is pretty good wether diesel or some petrol models. ( I own a petrol mid 90s one and she is hard as nails.interesting times together & hasnt cost too much to keep her running smoothly .)

At least with disiels if you get it heaps wet the electrics wont fail & that bit of extra torque might come in handy

I would want ( if i was to trade ) prob a diesel hilux - you can make your own fuel, a snorkel, running bars & a good bull bar ( gets ya out of the worst situations with a hi lift jack/winch combo)Suspension has changed over the years so its good to know a little of that.

Have fun shopping around

[mac]

A decent Landcruiser or a Hilux would be the best, both tuff as nails & easy to get parts for

Edited April 12, 2011 by mac

[Shroomeup]

Honestly mate, Ive owned a few 4WD's over the years, a 94 80 series land cruiser, 91 range rover, 91 GQ SWB nissan patrol, 94 LR discovery and then a 95 GQ patrol. The patrols seem to be the strongest overall. The 95 duel fuel patrol I just sold had over 400000kms on the clock and was still an amazingly solid and reliable car, everything was so tight it felt alot newer than it was and was brilliant up in the bush.

I'm also in the market to get another 4wd for around the 15k mark and am probably gonna go for somthing like this.

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?trecs=46&tsrc=allcarhome&__Ntk=CarAll&Cr=5&__Ntt=dual%20fuel&R=10376764&__Qpb=true&__D=dual%20fuel&silo=1011&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|1||pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&keywords=dual%20fuel&__No=15&__sid=12AFBD5B9647&__N=1216%201247%201252%201282%204294963846%204294963358%20412%20903&PriceTo=412&__Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&seot=1&__Nne=15&__Dx=mode%20matchany

Edit: Also Toyota Parts always seem to be rediculously expensive

Edited April 12, 2011 by Shroomeup

[Coquero]

I'd highly recommend either a landcruiser or hilux if you are after reliability and parts availability!

Cruiser is the toughest and will last longest off road... but pretty thirsty compared to the hilux.

The non turbo diesel hiluxes are pretty gutless on the highway so if you can save the money buy a turbo model!

My last hilux was a '97 3.0 diesel did 345000km before I sold it - during that time didn't burn any oil or blow smoke, no engine work, only had to replace timing belts at normal interval and replaced radiator and an idler arm.... was still going strong!!

As for ex mining vehicles it can be a gamble but you may get a bargain! from experience half the vehicles on site get driven by office workers!! but if it is ex-underground definately forget it!

[El Presidente Hillbillios]

i had my troopy nearly 15 years now i think. I honestly dont think it could have been better for us. I would only only another troopy after this one, it has ruined me for all others LOL

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Toyota-Landcruiser-Troopcarrier-2004-/230605618984?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item35b12a7f28#ht_548wt_1156

somethign like this will last you for along time, just check them for rust and major problems

[tripsis]

Alright, seems the general consensus is a Landcruiser. Hiluxes look good in terms of cost and low kms, but I don't want a ute.

That does seem pretty decent Hillbilly. Shame it's had the spare tank removed and is in QLD.

[eLwAd]

if you have the money( to buy and run)then go a troopy #1 cruiser #2. 80 series but no older, 60 series are tough as but are super thirsty and will have done some kms by now.

i will say this though, if you don't want to go anywhere where you'll need massive lift and the extra power a big cruiser/patrol has which lets face it is not many places unless you are actually prepared to damage your rig then you should check a late 90 early 00 pajero. i know i'm in the minority here and yeah it can be a soccer mum car but parts are cheap, they go forever and value for money and power to weight they are actually damn good. could save the extra 5-8k on a cruiser and use the cash to deck it out better.just my 2c.

[Jumpstarter]

Trip,

The Hilux Surf models arnt utes, and look alot better than the standard Hilux.

[mac]

^^^^ http://cgi.ebay.com.au/TOYOTA-4RUNNER-4-RUNNER-HILUX-SURF-1GGTE-TWIN-TURBO-/130506220608?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item1e62c6e440#ht_723wt_1139

thats a 4 runner or surf just as a example, the one in auction is a project

NOT ENGINEERED AND DOES NOT COME WITH REG OR ROAD WORTHY

twin cab with lockup canopy are also worth looking at

Edited April 14, 2011 by mac

[FancyPants]

My dad really liked his '93 Triton 4WD ute with canopy. It was relatively fuel economical, and pretty comfy. It was actually the first of our family cars I drove on the road when I got my learner's permit. Despite shit visibility was a great car to drive.

[tripsis]

Ah cool, good to know about the Hilux Surf. Will definitely look into it some more. Are they as stable and as strong as Landcruisers? Would they hold up to serious off road driving as well?

[Evil Genius]

I had a Suzuki Vitara once and it was a great car that never let me down. The Vitara is probably a little bit newer than 1990 but maybe you can get an earlier Suzuki model. It was really worth the money and the parts were pretty cheap too. bye Eg

[El Presidente Hillbillios]

the turbo diesel surfs do have a few dramas with overheating, if you google surf forum there is a heap of info on them there.

[occidentalis]

Ah cool, good to know about the Hilux Surf. Will definitely look into it some more. Are they as stable and as strong as Landcruisers? Would they hold up to serious off road driving as well?

 

Definitely not, Hilux surfs are toys in comparison to a well-fitted out cruiser.

You need to ask yourself what you're planning to do with your vehicle.

Is it for sport/recreation 4WDing, or for getting to slightly off the track locations or beach driving? then look at hilux surfs or the smaller jeeps (which are actually amazing 4wds and can climb things that cruisers simply can't)

Or do you want a base to live out of for long trips? In that case you need a cruiser. A pajero may suffice from what I've heard but I've never driven one. Hiluxes are OK, but they do not have the same guts as a cruiser. Prados are good vehicles, based on Hilux but more comfortable. Not as roomy for long trips though.

for 15000 you should be able to get a reasonable LC - i've seen them for less than 10k but they didn't look fantastic.

Check out gumtree or ebay, you can get some bargains. Agree on getting an inspection if possible.

Edited April 15, 2011 by occidentalis

[botanika]

Range Rovers - you're looking at classic or P38's in your price range. P38's are all 4-4.6 V8's in australia, are underpowered for what they are and drink like a fish. The P38's are notoriously unreliable and problematic, especially in regards to the electronics and air suspension. 1999 onwards have the better Bosch kits and the air suspension can be swapped out for coils...but you're still left with high maintenance and parts costs. Classic RR's are starting to get old but are cheap and easy to modify with parts etc. Look at 1991 range rovers where they have the bigger 3.8 V8 but still have the coils and simpler electronics. Great cars but more for enthusiasts but you could try get a mint 1991 for around $7k, spend another $3k on mods or gas conversion and keep $5k for repair bills ;)

Landcrusiers even in desiel will chew some fuel and are big cars. You have to honestly ask how much time you'll actually be offroading versus road driving. I love Cruisers more than Patrols for some reason. There are plenty around and in your price bracket you can find a bargain if you look carefully and plenty have already been converted to gas. Dont be completely put off if its done offroading. If its been well looked after you can score some great (and costly) aftermarket gear like suspension, tyres, roof racks, fridges etc. Look for old guys that used them for touring but added lots of aftermarket gear. Some of the old F60's are pretty funky but getting on in age and luxury + they have clunky leaf suspension: funky brown 60 series. A later 80's model better cheapcruiser. But with so many great 80 series out there...this is what you can get for $15k! bad ass cruiser

Dont forget the Prado's - nicer more compact interiors than the bigger cruisers but still capable offroad and nice to drive around town. The 3.4 litre will still drink though.

white prado

A newer 3.0l deisel Patrol would be great but perhaps pushing your budget? Also slightly mundane cars but big, tough and extremely capable offroad. Again it comes down to how much offraod tough stuff you want to be doing or if your looking for a tourer. Try comparing fuel consumption for the V8 version on gas versus the deisel. The V8's go quite cheaply these days.

Pajero's might not have the spunk of the others but are great cars to drive around town and on the highway and are almost as good as the Patrols and Cruisers offroad. Nice interiors and handling. A good set of wheels and tyres can transform a Paj into a mean machine. Look for the older 2.8 desiel for fuel efficiency. Newer ones might be out of the price range but the 3.8 V6 are better and more robust than the older 3.5 V6. Totally underated cars. cheap Paj

Hilux's/Surf's are a little cramped, stiff and bland but good workhorses. Troopies total old school but you can find some camper converted ones that are neat for trips. Big long cars though, not easy to turn around on tight tracks. Troopy camper

Jeeps can be ok but need some customization, particularly suspension. They're small.

Whatever you buy get some good tyres on it as that's the easiest way to improve performance offroad.

Edited April 19, 2011 by botanika