Another Suicide topic,

[OpticalLight]

Cool song, thanks, had never heard this 'till now. I agree with EG, it is selfish but at the sametime I think he would change it if he knew how, so sort-of selfish but not selfish.

 

It is a cool song! "Sort-of selfish but not selfish", pretty much sums it up.

[mac]

Im reluctant to post in threads like this but have one thing to say

You have to be 100% honest with him & yourself, if he thinks there is any hope you will take him back & is depressed he will cling to that hope & fantasize about you rescuing him from depression & himself.

[OpticalLight]

OL I was raised in a similar style to you, life is hard in an alcoholics world, when alcohol is more important than family, bad things get overlooked and it is the innocent that always suffer,

 

Thanks, it's good to acknowledge that it really was hard. Australia may have a big drinking culture, and I definitely really enjoy drinking myself; but this was not healthy. Once my dad cut a hole in the floor of his bedroom so that he could come home and put his drink under the house, then go up into his room, push a sofa aside and then collect his reward. He also modified furniture, ie cut the bottom out of the bottom drawer of a set of drawers; so he could stand his whiskey up... At the same time you gotta admire the determination and creativity of the guy. Also my mum isn't a drinker and did nag him a lot, (which has at times driven me to try and block her out with substances), but then again she was the one bringing in the only income. But then again she showed him no emotions and they slept in different rooms. But then again he pawned his wedding ring and stole my mums jewellery and money so he could have sex with prostitutes and date a stripper... and took me to the strip club too because my mum paid him to look after me! WTF!! (I only found out from my brother a couple of years ago that he was actually dating her. I was really young too so I wasn't really aware of what was going on, at least he had the decency to not do anything directly in front of me... no he just let me sit in the bar where all the strippers were dancing... WTF again!) And there were pictures of naked women all over the bathroom wall at our house... the guy must have been really fucking deprived of sex and emotional affection, but also a real fucking idiot! It's never simple is it!! How those two stayed together! They did at least keep telling me they both loved me. Staying together for the kid/s...maybe not the best idea...

I think jabez has a valid argument

 

I think so too.

But I don't think my ex is trying to intentionally manipulate me. Although I found out that there weren't any letters beside his bed, and he didn't have a rope; but when he was asked twice if he was serious, once he replied yes and once he replied in-between. He said he didn't know what he was going to do afterwards. He admitted that there was some manipulation, but not intentional.

He is surrounded by family.

Edited June 10, 2010 by OpticalLight

[OpticalLight]

Sorry optical, that last comment wasn't directed at you in anyway, I can see how it looked like it was.

I was kind of being a smart arse, by saying you'd probably be the sort of person to steal some blokes girlfriend to have that opinion.

But I should of kept my opinions to myself, really sorry.

Peace

 

don't worry about it, it's fine

[OpticalLight]

If someone wants to go hell bad, how selfish is it of the family to force them to continue out of guilt for them

 

because there might be even the slightest possibility that given time, that person might have the chance to be happy/happy again?

because every one is selfish anyway

[OpticalLight]

OL

1. collect your centrelink benefits, who knows how long you will be unemployed or whatever? its your right as an australian, and i know they're a pain to deal with, but its worth it when you have money in the bank.

2. you shouldn't need to change your phone plan ???? keep the plan, get your provider to give you a new number.

----------------

it sounds like a difficult situation. the above advice is straightforward stuff but i'll only venture one thought regarding the complex issues with your ex. when you desperately want to be with somebody, even the slightest hope is enough to hold onto. you haven't cut him out of your life (he has your number), so by the sound of it he will continue clinging to that hope, and that false hope won't help him.

i know you've already told him no. are you sure the answer is no? if the answer IS no, then perhaps the best thing for him is to either terminate all communication, or be prepared to give some of your energy to his recovery. this has more or less been said by others.

namaste

 

I am going to do the claim again today.

The phone plan, that's tricky. It's in his name, only his name. Because of the privacy act the phone company will not discuss anything with me. There's a few options, I'll have to look into it.

I don't think I'm going to comment on the complex issues any more.

[OpticalLight]

Yes suicide is selfish! If they stopped and thought about someone besides themselves, they'd realise this. So many people have hard lives, does a boyfriend or girlfriend breakup justify ending your life?! Or blaming that for getting off-track? And to ring you with an ultimatum... fuck me if that isn't the most selfish act out there i dunno what would trump it!!!

 

Nah I wasn't posting because I was talking to friends back in Brisbane.

Yeah I still think it's selfish. But isn't everything selfish anyway. There was some interesting comments about selfishness etc in another thread on addiction, here.

[OpticalLight]

Good luck with your new start.

 

Thank you

[OpticalLight]

Im reluctant to post in threads like this but have one thing to say

You have to be 100% honest with him & yourself, if he thinks there is any hope you will take him back & is depressed he will cling to that hope & fantasize about you rescuing him from depression & himself.

 

I am taking the time to really think all this through.

Thank you to the people who replied to this thread.

Edited June 10, 2010 by OpticalLight

[mutant]

OL, I think you're a great person, sending all positive vibes I can gather from the warm mediterranean, hope some reach oz!

The best are yet to come!

[Chiral]

Update... how is the situation now...?

My first wife lost her long term first boyfriend (6 years) to suicide, he blew his own head off with a double barrel whilst sitting in his room listening to Janes addiction...it really had a permanent impact on the shape of her emotions for the rest of her life I feel. Very difficult to talk about, lots of self blame and doubt, seemingly no reason for him to do it either, although he had threatened to a couple of times, no one took it serious, as she and him were leading the rocker come surly goth life and abusing crystal meth and mecaline a lot, most around them assumed they where just two typical late teens early 20' year olds working their way through their youth.

When she talked about it with me I felt a sharp cold line through the conversations, a sense of confusion and self loathing radiated through her, she could never convince herself it wasn't her fault, the following years of recovery consisted of tattoo's nipple piercings, fucking anyone and anything and abusing drugs and stealing...then we met.

[botanika]

You did the right thing. No u-turns. Dont look back in anger. Lock his memories away in a filing cab and fmove on. Being a confident guy previously he was looking for attention. Are you his first love? In the long run, he will get better and eventually the tough experiences for you both will hopefully help in forming better relationships in the future. Best of luck and enjoy Sydney. I'll be back there in 2 weeks - wanna go out? Nah oops I'm married, can't do that ;)

Chiral - damn man that must have been hard but you seem like you have a lot of strength in handling difficult situations.

Edited June 10, 2010 by botanika

[mu!]

My heart & thoughts go out to you Optical Light. I've just recently gone through a breakup myself, and I too was doing the breaking up & walking away. This thread is about wat you're going through so i wont bog it down in details of my past relationship, but I see some similar themes. And yes it really sucks to break someone's heart, especially when you want to help the other person with their personal issues in life but deep down you know that you're not really in the right position to be doing that. Sometimes its just best to walk away and trust in the universe that your ex will work things out for themself. Im in my early 20s, still a youngin, and dealing with emotional pain is usually at the top of my list of challenges. So knowing I had to be the causer (however direct or indirect) of so much pain for a beatiful soul I would've liked to have saved from much despair, was a very tough hurdle indeed.

The major lesson in it for me, which has been echoed by other posters of your thread, is you have to be honest about how you feel. In the end it does no benefit to either party if you cant express wat your true feelings are, because in the end the truth has to come out and the house of cards you built to try save the other from hurting will come crashing down. Honest may be the best policy but it sure aint fucking easy!

You say your ex is intelligent and confident so I've no doubt that, given time, he'll work through watever he needs to to get him over this significant bump in lifes path You say he has family around him and i'm glad he does, because when it comes to matters of the heart sometimes all you want is those closest to you. (There's nothing like being half way round the world, gettin ur ass dumped, and having no close friends or family to turn to...)

All the best OL. Go easy on yourself, be strong. This hectic shit we call life will work itself out. You just gotta tought it out sometimes.

Peace

Edited June 11, 2010 by mu.

[kindness]

he just called me, and it was a suicide call. no it wasn't a fake suicide call. it was very real. he told me i had under 3 minutes to take him back or he would hang himself. he told me that the shaking and his mental health was not from him trying to get over me, he said it was from the realization that he wouldn't find someone like me again. he told me that he had written letters and placed them beside his bed and that i now had 30 seconds and that i could tell his family where to find him - in the park

 

That is a form of abuse, i.e domestic violence. Did I miss someone else saying that in the two pages this thread is up to? I'm just going to post the first thing that came up by doing a google search - http://www.dvirc.org.au/HelpHub/WarningSigns.htm

If the counselor you spoke to did not pick up on that then they are a shit one, find someone else.

peace

edit to say I just did a bit more of a search... here is the docs websites take on DV - might be worth a look: http://www.community.nsw.gov.au/parents_carers_and_families/domestic_and_family_violence.html if you scroll down the page there are numbers for trained caseworkers... you may find some support there.

mz

Edited June 11, 2010 by meanies

[OpticalLight]

OL, I think you're a great person, sending all positive vibes I can gather from the warm mediterranean, hope some reach oz!

The best are yet to come!

 

Thank you mutant, I appreciate all positive vibes you've sent this way. The warm mediterranean sounds like bliss, it's about 10 degrees outside, brrrrrrr...

I hope so.

[OpticalLight]

Update... how is the situation now...?

My first wife lost her long term first boyfriend (6 years) to suicide, he blew his own head off with a double barrel whilst sitting in his room listening to Janes addiction...it really had a permanent impact on the shape of her emotions for the rest of her life I feel. Very difficult to talk about, lots of self blame and doubt, seemingly no reason for him to do it either, although he had threatened to a couple of times, no one took it serious, as she and him were leading the rocker come surly goth life and abusing crystal meth and mecaline a lot, most around them assumed they where just two typical late teens early 20' year olds working their way through their youth.

When she talked about it with me I felt a sharp cold line through the conversations, a sense of confusion and self loathing radiated through her, she could never convince herself it wasn't her fault, the following years of recovery consisted of tattoo's nipple piercings, fucking anyone and anything and abusing drugs and stealing...then we met.

 

Woah, Chiral that must have been tough.

Around the middle of 2003 I broke up with a guy I'd been seeing for about a year, after he told me he slept with his neighbour. Shortly afterwards he took some painkillers and tried to jump off of a bridge. People stopped him thank goodness. He was depressed about quite a few things that were going on in his life. I only found out about his attempt afterwards. We're still friends now and he's a fairly happy fellow. I know that he is responsible for his own actions... but I'm very glad his attempt failed.

So the situation now.

I've spoken to one of my ex's close friends and they didn't know it was this bad. They were aware that he was depressed, but they are also annoyed with him because they don't think he is listening to them. They believe that he will only heed my advice now. I think my ex has been trying not to worry them too much.

He has lost a lot of weight and lost 2kg in the past month. One of his friends has refused to see him because his health has deteriorated to the point where that friend doesn't want to see him like that. His mum has threatened to check him into a psych ward if he doesn't get better. This would be terrible for him as he has spent so much time in the past trying to advice people that those sort of places aren't always ideal solutions.

He has genuinely been actively trying to help himself. He eats healthy and still exercises. He has tried dating other women. He's gone to hypnosis classes, counsellors, relationship counsellors; and even started attending a friend's church three times a week... Nothing has helped, and he's grown tired of attending church.

That call the other day was him at his wits end.

He's been having panic attacks and has been waking up in the early hours of the mornings in cold sweats shaking. It's bad.

[OpticalLight]

You did the right thing. No u-turns. Dont look back in anger. Lock his memories away in a filing cab and fmove on. Being a confident guy previously he was looking for attention. Are you his first love? In the long run, he will get better and eventually the tough experiences for you both will hopefully help in forming better relationships in the future. Best of luck and enjoy Sydney. I'll be back there in 2 weeks - wanna go out? Nah oops I'm married, can't do that ;)

Chiral - damn man that must have been hard but you seem like you have a lot of strength in handling difficult situations.

 

Hey botanika, yeah I'm his first love. Thank you, it's good to be lucky. I am enjoying Sydney, although the public transport is more expensive than what I'm used too. The traffic... there's a lot more cars on the road that's for sure. I got stuck in peak hour traffic the other day, the gps took me onto a motorway and the cars were crawling along. And apart from that weirdo on the train who tried to start me, well woo...

Oh you'll be back here in two weeks? Sure... you're a funny one aren't ya ;P

[OpticalLight]

My heart & thoughts go out to you Optical Light. I've just recently gone through a breakup myself, and I too was doing the breaking up & walking away. This thread is about wat you're going through so i wont bog it down in details of my past relationship, but I see some similar themes. And yes it really sucks to break someone's heart, especially when you want to help the other person with their personal issues in life but deep down you know that you're not really in the right position to be doing that. Sometimes its just best to walk away and trust in the universe that your ex will work things out for themself. Im in my early 20s, still a youngin, and dealing with emotional pain is usually at the top of my list of challenges. So knowing I had to be the causer (however direct or indirect) of so much pain for a beatiful soul I would've liked to have saved from much despair, was a very tough hurdle indeed.

The major lesson in it for me, which has been echoed by other posters of your thread, is you have to be honest about how you feel. In the end it does no benefit to either party if you cant express wat your true feelings are, because in the end the truth has to come out and the house of cards you built to try save the other from hurting will come crashing down. Honest may be the best policy but it sure aint fucking easy!

You say your ex is intelligent and confident so I've no doubt that, given time, he'll work through watever he needs to to get him over this significant bump in lifes path You say he has family around him and i'm glad he does, because when it comes to matters of the heart sometimes all you want is those closest to you. (There's nothing like being half way round the world, gettin ur ass dumped, and having no close friends or family to turn to...)

All the best OL. Go easy on yourself, be strong. This hectic shit we call life will work itself out. You just gotta tought it out sometimes.

Peace

 

Thanks mu. Sometimes it's really hard to read the messages the universe is sending me. It seems to be a very aware universe.

How do I honestly feel? I feel that personally I have been to the world of crazy and back again. But for some strange reason I have the utmost trust that I'll always be okay.

How do I feel about my ex? I'm not going to get back together with him just because he attempted to off himself. That would be stupid. I don't think I'm capable of being in a fully fledged relationship just at this moment.

I respect all these different angles with which I have been able to view the situation with. But every relationship is different, and it's hard for people on the outside to understand the intricacies and complexity of that which is within.

I don't know if we have a future together, but I'm going to help him.

[OpticalLight]

That is a form of abuse, i.e domestic violence. Did I miss someone else saying that in the two pages this thread is up to? I'm just going to post the first thing that came up by doing a google search - http://www.dvirc.org...arningSigns.htm

If the counselor you spoke to did not pick up on that then they are a shit one, find someone else.

peace

edit to say I just did a bit more of a search... here is the docs websites take on DV - might be worth a look: http://www.community...y_violence.html if you scroll down the page there are numbers for trained caseworkers... you may find some support there.

mz

 

Hi meanies, I did the quiz and I could only answer yes to one of those questions; and it was only a yes to half of that question. That did help to put my situation into perspective. He's really not a bad person.

[Rabelais]

Ok, one more venture...

OpticalLight

He has genuinely been actively trying to help himself. He eats healthy and still exercises. He has tried dating other women. He's gone to hypnosis classes, counsellors, relationship counsellors; and even started attending a friend's church three times a week... Nothing has helped, and he's grown tired of attending church.

How can I say this diplomatically...

Careful, the above sounds a little over the top. He sounds extremely desperate and may be willing to say things to get what he wants. Have you personally witnessed him doing these above things or have a reliable source?

Watch out for yourself foremost.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Dale Cooper

[dworx]

OL

You said his attempt was a genuine one and he left letters etc, then you said there were no letters, Meanies is right, and I think that is what you told him really, and what everyone here is telling you, that selfishness in itself is a form of abuse. He abused your trust by telling you it was a serious threat, I have left letters etc etc, that was a lie and he used that lie to get a reaction from you, you are being manipulated and if you play into that then he will keep manipulating you,.

I have found that through my life, I have mostly surrounded myself by people that have been abused, like I was - it wasn't a conscious decision but there must be triggers that make me feel safe with these people. I know others who seem attracted to the abuser, Is this what you are doing unconsciously?The "2003 I broke up with a guy" was he from an abused childhood, have you felt suicidal before? What is the connection? Just something for you to ponder. I really think you should cut ties with him, it does sound like you are now being manipulated and abused and the manipulation and abuse will escalate once he has confidence in his system - hey, its a learning phase..

[SunChaser]

Well, actually no it's not a form of abuse! It's a form of manipulation, a desperate person trying to get back what he probably feels is his last chance of gaining his dignity back.

Sometimes I wonder why the worlds in the state it's in. Why all the pain and suffering?

This thread pretty much answers that question very well. Humans are just savage little creatures, who love to gang up on and hurt people that they percieve as weaker than themselves or as the blacksheep or the outsider of the group.

This is not a shot at OL, but come on, from what logic is she some kind perfect hero in this situation? Like all you people are trying to make out. I'm not trying to say anyones right or wrong. But the way you people are trying to make the situation look clean cut and are so quick to attack a person because there ill, is actually quite sick, yet at the same time very typical!

Edited June 15, 2010 by jabez

[ThunderIdeal]

hmmm i don't think we're particularly doing that. we're looking out for a forum member, who broke up with somebody some time ago, who has her own problems, and shouldn't feel obliged to come running to the rescue of an ex (who may or may not be lying, manipulating, abusive). it seems she has chosen to come to his aid anyway, so maybe irrelevant?

[ThunderIdeal]

and it is (potentially) abuse

most people, including me, have very limited understand of the forms abuse can take. you'd be surprised. threat of suicide can fall under the category of abuse / domestic violence, i'm sure of it.

Edited June 12, 2010 by ThunderIdeal

[SunChaser]

hmmm i don't think we're particularly doing that. we're looking out for a forum member, who broke up with somebody some time ago, who has her own problems, and shouldn't feel obliged to come running to the rescue of an ex (who may or may not be lying, manipulating, abusive). it seems she has chosen to come to his aid anyway, so maybe irrelevant?

 

So what your saying is, your looking out for a forum member by trying to convince the forum member that the person they spent the last 6 years with was just a child like selfish abuser the whole time?

How interesting! 

If it really had anything to do with looking out for someone, rather than some little ego trip. Then there would be no reason to be putting anyone down.

But whatever, I'm over it!