Tropical plants indoors over winter

[tripsis]

I've got several tropical plants which I want to bring indoors over winter so that the cold doesn't kill them. I was thinking about using a couple of 24w daylight fluoros as lighting, but am not sure if this will be enough for them. Can anyone give me some advice on the sort of lighting required? I would really like to avoid anything like a 400w HPS if possible, as don't want to use excessive power.

Cheers.

[mr me]

Can you tell us how tall your plants are and how much surface area they would take up.

[kindness]

Good question. I am going with the sunny window over winter method this year. The spot I have available only gets a few hours sun but I think it should be enough to keep them going over winter...

Fluoro's have such a small amount of area that is actually suitable for vigorous plant growth that for me it's not really worth it. I think that it tends to make plants very leggy. That said I have sprouted ipomea's and caapi cuttings in my old cacti cupboard... They liked it alot, growing toward the light to the point that I had to take them out. I wonder what would happen if you let them just grow as they wanted around a fluoro

[Rabaelthazar]

I've just been out today thinking of a way to keep my viridis happy over winter. My plan was to come back home tonight and search the forums for info (I did do a search, link to most useful topic here( http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23766&view=&hl=viridis%20winter&fromsearch=1 )... but since you've posted this, Tripsis, I'll piggy-back on your post (hope you don't mind).

I've currently got the pot sitting under a humidity dome and, underneath the pot, a heat pad set to 25 degrees.

Can anyone offer a better (and not over-the-top) way to do this? I'd like to avoid a full-on lights set-up because my wife would not be impressed with me spending that sort of money on keeping a pot-plant alive.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Rabaelthazar

[tripsis]

They are pretty small plants, maybe between 15cm and 30cm, depending on the species. The surface area would also be quite small if they were in small pots, but they are in large pots for the size of the plants, so take up a few shelves in one of those mini-greenhouses that you can get from the hardware store. I suppose if I had to, I could pot them down into smaller pots.

[WillowWhisper]

usually it should be fine, but with out knowing the species I cant be sure though. In the past I have used a fluro to sustain a few small plants, I had it on over 18 hours, not much growth (what I was aiming for at the time anyway) because it is cold light you may have to do some additional heating depending on the plant, right now I am trying my best to keep a few new species happy as they have been in a warm humid climate, I converted an old seahorse tank to a Terrarium keeping my fingers crossed on them!

Good luck

[shortly]

If you can position your setup to take advantage of natural light you should only need to light for 4 - 6 hours max, if you use good reflectors to get the most out of the light you are paying for it shouldn't be too $ painful.

Heating is often more energy hungry, my hot bed is made up of 50mm polystyrene sandwiched between 3/4" plywood & all fiberglassed. it holds 10" of wet sand when in use & is heated with cable from an old electric blanket, the thermostat is a bimetalstrip thermostat from an aquarium heater. The wet sand is great a thermal sink radiating heat & humidity for hours.

[tripsis]

Having it by a window is not really an option, it'll be in a room where the only light will be artificial light.

For heating I was just going to try a fish heating in a tub of water, with the plants inside a mini-greenhouse. Not sure how this will end up going, but time will tell.

Your heating method sounds good shortly, but also pretty industrial. I would like to make something like that, but can't really do it for the time being.

So will fluoros do, or should I consider other lighting options?

[GingaNinja]

for the record, I got psychotria and caapi through -5 winter in a unheated basic greenhouse. sure they didnt look amazing but they survived. So being in your location i would suggest heating is not necesarry.

sorry cant help with the light questions man. if people are veging weed with fluoros im sure u could get some plants through winter with it

[Chiral]

Try led panels...they are getting very good now and are very cost effective in the electricity dept...grab 4 slot em together an make a nice big square patch of light to keep them babies happy over this wet cold time.

[tripsis]

That's incredible. Did you insulate the greenhouse?

My greatest concern is the yohimbe and iboga plants I've got. I recall Torsten saying that yohimbe plants will not live through temps 10°C or under, while iboga are frost intolerant.

You have a good point about people who grow weed under fluoros. In the pics I've seen though, they always seem to have them only cm from the actual plants and a fair few of them too.

[GingaNinja]

That's incredible. Did you insulate the greenhouse?

 

nah it was just one of these with solarweave

I dont have either yohimbe or Iboga but i imagine they might be alittle more difficult.

but if its inside how cold do u predict the room getting?

[kindness]

I want one.

[tripsis]

The room would be one of the coldest in the house for sure, but I plan on heating the interior of the mini-greenhouse with a fish heater in a tub of water. Whether this is sufficient or not, I cannot say. If it isn't, then I'll find another way to heat it. The room would easily get below 10°C in winter though.

Cool greenhouse Ginga, I'd like something like that at some point.

[shortly]

Led pannels are good low energy light source the only thing is not all LED's are created equal, you need to get ones with a moderately high colour temperature for plant growth. There was a discussion in one of the aquatic plant forums recently about which LE-D's were good & which weren't, I'll have a dig about & see if i can find it again.

If you need extra insulation bubble wrap works reasonably well, stuck bubble side to the wall of your grow chamber/glasshouse whatever. I have even seen an indoor tent made from a double skin of bubble wrap & PVC conduit.

My Hot bed may sound industrial but its only 1.9m X 0.5m of usable bed & cost a whopping $60 + that much again for mister heads & a solenoid and a long a weekend to build. The biggest hastle was bribing the brother outlaw to do the electrical work for me so it would be legal.

[QuantumReality]

LEDs are the way to go, but be sure to look for ones with atleast 1 watt output per bulb. There are some shocking panels and lamps around for sale on the net.

[tripsis]

So each LED needs to be 1w? I take it that this product is no good then? Can you link to to the sort of thing you're talking about?

[shortly]

It looks like it might be ok, the colour temp is a fraction high,

apart from needing a transformer that is ( Voltage: 110V/60Hz )

Edited April 29, 2010 by shortly

[mac]

You can get the purple GROWLUX UV type standard fluorescent tubes, You can also buy or make the fittings or panels that take 2x, 3x, 4x, & 8x etc (4 foot)tubes

more than enough light for most plants, low heat & not as expensive to buy as the larger "Quality" LCD panels

Not power hungry like a small 400W hps (here are a couple of links to give you a idea of whats possible with fluorescent lighting)

Hydro shop

ebay

They are used more for cloning boxes but should be plenty of extra light without buying a 400W or larger HPS kit

Edited April 29, 2010 by mac

[tripsis]

Fuck, so many options, it's doing my head in.

Some of those lights in that Ebay link are as much as one of those better quality LED panels. Mind you, the LED panel I was looking at has an output of 4500 lumens, the larger fluoros have an output of 20000 to 38000 lumens. Not that this means a great deal to me, but I do get that it means they pump out a shit load of light. Can you get those sorts of lights easily at a hydro store?

I'm not too fussed whether my plants thrive or not during winter. I'm more keen on them surviving in good condition. Anything more is a bonus. It would be good to have some seedlings power on though.

[shortly]

Lumen's + colour temp + duration = everything

Basically if the Lumen's are too low or too short a photoperiod then there wont be enough energy to drive photosynthesis

If the colour temp is too low isn't the correct energy to drive photosynthesis.

You can shop online, at a hydro shop, aquarium shop or electrical outlet better one will carry all the bit's N bobs you might need.

What you need to consider is

LED - very energy efficient, longish life (i'm told 40000 hr+), cool running, pig to replace individual parts.

Fluro's - sorta energy efficient, life of each tube usually about 4000 - 5000 hrs, easy to replace, really needs good reflector, ballast can build up a fair bit of heat.

Dichroic downlights - Not energy efficient, very hot, delivers a huge amount of light for a small space, cheap, last about a year per bulb. remember colour temp when buying bulbs!!!

metal halide - really really hot (will heat the whole house if you don't vent), uses lots & lots of power, delivers a enormous amount of light, 2 - 3 year useful life span. these are the choice of serious growers who can afford the power bill.

On top of all this add price & that's about it

[tripsis]

Thanks for that breakdown on what I'm looking for shortly.

Colour temp...is that the measure of kelvin or the wavelength of light?

So basically I'm looking for a light which delivers a high number of lumens, the correct colour temp and have it on for a sufficient period of time (say 12 - 16 hours?).

I take it hydro stores sell the reflectors needed for fluoros?

Edited April 29, 2010 by tripsis

[kadakuda]

how many plants ya got, and what species? my iboga has lived through 6C at night.

i think your putting too much thought into it. get the double tube shop lights and buy better output fluoros which are had anywhere. they almost all have total lumens and lumens per watt and colour (K=Kalvin) do a mix of 6000-6500k = blue and 2600-3000k = red. avoid teh mid range 5000k types.

the fluoros around here are 91lumens per watt x 40 watts (4 foot tubes), so tey are quite good. i would say just have shelves (aka bricks with boards on top) and make some kind of reflector. cover over top with screen, should insulate that enough as teh lights do creat heat and can keep them plenty warm....maybe run them at night whne its cooler, and turn of fin the day.

[tripsis]

Cool, thanks kada. Maybe fluoros are the way to go. I don't really want to fork at $250 for a LED light from China. I'll go light hunting tomorrow.

How close should the fluoros be from the plants? The room gets really quite cold, so I think additional heating will probably be a necessity.

I'd be bringing the yohimbe and iboga indoors for sure, maybe the caapi and some others too if I'm to go to the bother of setting something up. Most of them would probably do alright outside, but I figure if there's room for 15 then there's probably room for 20 or more. So maybe 15 - 30 plants in total. Would also bring the cactus seedlings in, although I know they do fine under ordinary fluoros.

[shortly]

You can have most plants almost touching fluro tubes without any damage, apart from shading everything else.

I suppose you could put the entire fitting inside your "grow box" & use the heat from the ballast as an additional heat source, I'm just not sure how you would regulate it?

If you can scrounge an old or leaky aquarium they make pretty reasonable terrariums with polystyrene glued to the outside for insulation you would be amazed what can be grown in them.

this is a realy old pick but this design has proved to be my most productive terrariums, will grow just about anything thats less than 2' tall. shows what you can do with junk.