Messianic Ideation, Delusions of Grandeur and Psychedelics

[KanJe]

I believe in being negative, because the shadow is the primary issue facing the western consciousness, and being "positive" only reinforces typical dumb repression and saying what needs to be said, and what is on one's mind is necessary if we are ever to get on with it.

I don't think confrontation requires someone to be positive or negative. I think all that's involved is understanding either way.

What do you mean by 'repression' or 'getting on with it'?

ThunderIdeal - I like you graph, it's a cool idea. In my opinion the conservations that have taken place wouldn't have beeen as interesting if everyone was neutral on the scale.

[ThunderIdeal]

i'm not saying to be neutral. it isn't my picture either by the way. my point was that intelligent conversation shouldn't be a fight. when one person starts turning a conversation into an argument (in real life) it forces the other conversant to start raising their voice and being snappy and competing for "air time" as well. something like that happens online and feelings get hurt, somehow the model of dialogue can be improved IMHO, i'm not exactly sure how but i know we can discuss things without it ever having to escalate to name calling and shit.

[folias]

Western people don't express what is on their mind, what they are thinking and/or feeling.. normally, the parts that are repressed and not told, are the "negative" parts... which are held back.

If we are to actually get on with being alive in a true, alive, integrated, real way - then there should not be an inner sensor which is repressing the "negative".

The western cultural predicament is "the shadow", and to face that shadow and deal with it, we must face the shadow and not be such idiotic sensitive egos who can't deal with the "negative", when in fact, in that, is much of our true force and power.

Julian.

[KanJe]

Folias - I kind of agree with you except with your idea of all that is repressed in western society are the 'negative' sides of our emotions/thoughts. Negative is too much of a relative term for me to define. I agree that there is repression taking place but I think it's more with things that aren't tangible like emotion. We all know there are people who are exceptions to this generalisation and they are the people who have tools to be able to express them selves. To me these tools are things like painting, taking photos, gardening but most of all playing music which I think articulates emotion the best.

If you develop these tools in life living within a western society, will repression of the 'negative' sides of your personality still take place?

ThunderIdeal - I agree with you. I love passion as long as there is an underlying sign of respect between people.

[incognito]

Folias - I kind of agree with you except with your idea of all that is repressed in western society are the 'negative' sides of our emotions/thoughts. Negative is too much of a relative term for me to define. I agree that there is repression taking place but I think it's more with things that aren't tangible like emotion. We all know there are people who are exceptions to this generalisation and they are the people who have tools to be able to express them selves. To me these tools are things like painting, taking photos, gardening but most of all playing music which I think articulates emotion the best.

If you develop these tools in life living within a western society, will repression of the 'negative' sides of your personality still take place?

ThunderIdeal - I agree with you. I love passion as long as there is an underlying sign of respect between people.

if i didnt repress alot of my emotions i would have been in jail a LOOOOOOONG time ago

[Chiral]

Hah...I think if we all spoke our minds at this point of our evolution it would be total anarchy on the streets...Jono there wouldn't be enough jails to fit everyone in mate if we went about speaking or minds.

We talk about dissolving ego's when doing psychedelics but how much of it is really dissolved.....is it only sections of our ego that torn down...I believe my recent experience ripped apart more of my ego than ever before...to be reduced to a crying blathering mess confessing to being somewhat of a failure...can you imagine acting like that without psychedelics and that behavior was part of our everyday lives...like I said it would be total anarchy and chaos on the streets...total economic meltdown and no social structure at all. If all of a sudden we could read each others minds....you wouldn't be able to leave the house for fear of thinking someone was a dickhead or thinking that chick is hot I'd love to shag her....can you imagine...perhaps that at some point in the future psychedelics will teach us how to block or transmit only pure thoughts of compassion or love...sounds corny but but how else could we get around if we are not taught by others who know how to and have been doing it for thousands of years...I'm talking other dimensional entities again here.

I had a random thought this morning whilst out in my garden about synchronicity and dosage of mushrooms...what if at 33.33gms exactly we actually break through to precisely the right light and dimension where we can be taught and find out things for real....I know it sounds like fantasy but I couldn't help wonder...perhaps prime numbers or another type of synchronicity can help us get to where we want to be...and that place for me is a higher level of conscience.

H.

[Chiral]

stupid slow connection..double post.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Hunab Ku

[strangebrew]

Kent's unfinished online book is here btw - http://www.tripzine.com/listing.php?id=pit_toc

Doesn't look as though it's been updated for a couple of years so maybe it never will be.

[folias]

If you develop these tools in life living within a western society, will repression of the 'negative' sides of your personality still take place?

I think we have to be comfortable with all that is within us and learn to express it and be comfortable with it in other people, rather than live as if everything is all nice and good and "positive" (which it aint)

The thing is, to achieve telepathy, you have to be COOL, with what you are thinking and what other people are thinking, so you are an open book, and they are an open book... really it is all a matter of being cool and not in judgement or any kind of reaction.

Julian.

[Chiral]

If you can understand infinity...I believe the wisdom of the future is easier to deal with....being pure of heart and soul will let you use the powers of telepathy forever.....decisions are merely ripples in the infinite loop of energy.

H.

[KanJe]

I think we have to be comfortable with all that is within us and learn to express it and be comfortable with it in other people, rather than live as if everything is all nice and good and "positive" (which it aint)

The thing is, to achieve telepathy, you have to be COOL, with what you are thinking and what other people are thinking, so you are an open book, and they are an open book... really it is all a matter of being cool and not in judgement or any kind of reaction.

I agree with you completely. I really have faith that we will reach that kind of future.

If you can understand infinity...I believe the wisdom of the future is easier to deal with....being pure of heart and soul will let you use the powers of telepathy forever.....decisions are merely ripples in the infinite loop of energy.

H.

How will understanding infinity help make the wisdom of the future easier to deal with?

[strangebrew]

Unfortunately, I can't read James Kent, unless I have shot up some dodgy meth or something...

I said this in a talk at EB2, 6 years ago, still pretty relevant!

--

"In the human form, that manifested overall totality of being, has been known as Christ Consciousness, that of a unified understanding of one human being, cogniscent of their interconnected holographic manifestation of one being. A state of what can be termed Christ consciousness, is often brought about with the usage of large amounts of tryptamines, where the realisation of human unity and interconnectedness is tacitly realised to the case.The initial stages of this realisation are representive of an understanding of the being THE ONE, the alpha and the omega, and represent a kind of messianic, delusionary narcissism, an often necessary state of emergence into balanced conscresence. Once this state has been reconciled within an individuation human framework, it is then possible for one to learn how to BE ONE (and all). And how to activate oneself in relationship to oneself, in the many different possible aspects. The subtleties and nuances of this learning could be perceived like that of advanced mathematics, whereby those who have not studied the basis of math, do not have any real comprehension of the sums of the parts, and their overall meanings."

Julian.

and how exactly would you suggest one goes about learning this?

Edited May 17, 2009 by strangebrew

[incognito]

eat and smoke heaps of dmt i think?

[Chiral]

I agree with you completely. I really have faith that we will reach that kind of future.

How will understanding infinity help make the wisdom of the future easier to deal with?

During a very recent voyage of some 15gms of cubensis I was able to connect to some sort information bank or explanation loop....I was taught that all things are infinite and once you understand this you no longer carry the fear of death...the understanding gives you the power to become infinite and move up the evolutionary chain at a faster rate and begin to use telepathy and also see into the future and recognize images from the past.

I was quite taken back as the first part of the trip was exactly like a DMT trip for about 20 mins and then turned into what I can only explain as an information loop...this lopp of information explained to me the physics and characteristic of infinity...I grasped it about the third time round and then began to practice with very basic small issues and solve them...I was told that these decisions are the ripples of the universe and don't effect the infinite universe as it can cope with any variables...that's how it is designed..once again it is slightly difficult to describe but I believe I am getting somewhere lately as I am able to really concentrate early on in my trips and get straight down to business...I have developed a pattern to emerge myself into the infinite field and and still guided by an entity by now the entity is not seen it is merely speaking to me telepathically. I disagree with any suggestion that psychedelics are only drugs to create hallucinations and then when they go away we are left with nothing...people see and hear strange things without psychedelics..ghosts, aliens, UFO's and even deep meditative trance can have one visiting deities...so the whole thesis that psychedelics are nothing but drugs that screw with your neurons for the time they are active in your body to me is a miscalculation and untrue IMO.

H.

[folias]

>and how exactly would you suggest one goes about learning this?

Smoking DMT doesn't really give you much time to learn anything.

300mg of DMT taken orally with an MAOI inhibitor, though, will!

or 8 grams plus of dried mushrooms should do the trick.

Julian.

[Chiral]

I recommend high dose Mushroom...recently the first hour of 15gms of cubes took me straight to DMT hyperspace...I couldn't believe how exact it was and then it wore off and a new phase kicked in of a voice explaining infinity and the ripples of equations and the use of an open mind...I saw into the future and saw the past and watched the ripples of each transgression but the infinite loop remained...I believe the Maya and other ancient cultures called this the after life as I believe now that they were aware of once you die you return as another form of energy ..be it human or something else....I am learning to open up and get straight down to business lately and am learning some very interesting things that are staying with me when completely sober..I am practicing my thoughts constantly and believe before I die and exchange my energy I will have somewhat mastered the ESP and telepathy phenomenon to a certain degree....one thing I would like to know from others ...at high dosage have any of you experienced mushrooms to be exactly like a DMT trip at the start and last for about an hour or say three quarters...that was incredible actually.

H.

Edited May 18, 2009 by Hunab Ku

[toby]

[quote name='Hunab Ku' phenomenon to a certain degree....one thing I would like to know from others ...at high dosage have any of you experienced mushrooms to be exactly like a DMT trip at the start and last for about an hour or say three quarters...that was incredible actually.

H.

 

At low dose actually, combined with P harmala, but minus the ringing/wooshing in the head during the entry.

[holymountain]

yep high dose shrooms will take you there. 15g of cubes has been exactly like DMT but in slow motion. but because you are there for around an hour you explore the area more and can fathom it a little bit better. the information loops around and you can start to understand it when it comes around three or four times. 2.5g of subs with syrian rue also put me into this realm. i can only describe it as like entering a vast library where all the information of the universe is contained. you can access anything you want. i remember being shown 'films' about the history of native people around the world. i felt i could access any point in history. i also felt as if i was looking into my future or at least what my future could be like. it was like an encyclopedia of the universe. i kept geting the realisation that all i was really doing was accessing the data stored in my DNA. it was as if my DNA is the ultimate hard drive and contains all the information and history of the entire universe. taking mushrooms is like plugging into the hard drive and accessing the data...the program for your life is already written and your DNA just carries it out.. with a bit more work it should be possible to navigate it properly kind of like the internet. i felt like i was just being flung around accessing and bumping into random bits of information. it would seem shamans are experts at navigating these realms. i'm kinda getting the hang of it but sometimes it's all a bit too much.

interesting stuff indeed.

[t st tantra]

predosing with p catha will give you dmt space you can use........

t s t .

[strangebrew]

I am quite familiar with "Christ Consciousness". It's great to be able to see yourself reflected in every living thing, to get a real feeling for the brotherhood of man but at the same time I generally find it quite an egocentric place to be.

Also at my very heights, all encountered "entities" or voices from the Logos from over the years, not that there's been many, became likewise, just parts of myself, a feeling very much of their being generated from within - just extentions of myself.

So far I've found it something like "the higher you go, the more self-important yourself tends to be."

I was wondering really how you Julian, suggest people break out of that mode which seems so common, hardwired even. Just do more trips? Is that what you are suggesting?

Edited May 18, 2009 by strangebrew

[Chiral]

I've had this discussion with many people over the years and I have only really one opinion as to how to enter that world of energy and the brotherhood of man...entities, infinity etc....

In my mind there can only be one way to get there permanently....death.

I really do think it's that simple...transformation of this existence to another through death is IMO how we move on.

All that seeing into the future stuff when deep tripping is like looking at where you will go when you die....it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

H.

[mutant]

Very interesting article and thread.

Actually I am more 'on the articles side' and I believe in both being positive and negative in such a discussion as mean to a further end.

I also believe McKenna did have his messiah complexes from time to time, yet he was humorous enough and a great speaker and writer anyway to present them in this very special way.

I do believe that high doses of certain drugs can be very convincing, if you don't freak out reaching that space. To me it's not much different from the epiphanies I am talking in regards with smaller doses, rarely, life, nature, insight, throuout the years.... It's the intensity of the feelings and grandiose/messiah thing varies.

I do believe in a firm reality, I have answered most of the 'answers' in life even though I was never so eager to ask question in the first place. But my ideas are more down to earth than metaphysical stuff. Surely, way far out than most people in the mainstream could tolerate, but still, I got a lied back, bioworldview. I don't know who set the rules, but there are rules. Nature is the law.

I believe so big doses of psychedelics are generally a bad idea, exept when the taker knows exactly what he is doing, where he is at, etc.

[nitrogen]

I see where Mr Kent is coming from, but he is also presenting himself as one of those reductionistic and overly scientific types who think that unless something is shown to be true for sure there's no use believing in it...

Kent would be one of those people who, back in the day before Copernicus or Galileo, would have called you crazy for saying the earth actually revolved around the sun...

Leary, Mckenna, and Lilly were very relevent people, and had a big impact on the world, and have contributed to the evolution of psychedelic theory and practice... Using the word "messiah" is a little far-fetched and very likely delusional if the person sees themselves that way, but they were influential people, as many are..

[ThunderIdeal]

megalomania is pretty frightening. this is one of the interesting paradoxes of reality IMHO. each of us IS god but that can be manifested in an egotistical way: megalomania, messiah complex. so fucking weird. once upon a time i would have thought messiah complex = the maddest of the mad, but now i'm practically one of them. i justify it as being okay in my instance, because i'm not elevating myself above anyone else, just trying to come to grips with the frightening nature of self and everything.

[folias]

>because i'm not elevating myself above anyone else, just trying to come to grips with the frightening nature of self and everything.

too true!

Julian.