The move to outlaw biker gangs

[MindExpansion]

So all have probably heard of the recent troubles among some of the one percenter biker gangs (and one gang who arent actually really strictly biker's). I know one state has already done it but now that its been brought to attention again i was just wondering what people's thoughts were about whether it was right or not for the gov to make it illegal for them to congregate, and whether people think it will make any difference to their activities.

I personally am not sure i like to see the move, as much as I dont like the violence and gang mentality and all that other total crap that goes with it, for one group of people to have their otherwise legal activities outlawed because they are part of a group is perhaps not so right, but the context here makes it pretty tough for me to choose, normally I'm more for freedom so long as no one else is hurt by your actions, but in this case other people are getting hurt by SOME of their actions, but probably not all, but is the SOME a large enough chunk of what they do to outlaw them completeley?

Well even if they do I'm not sure the bikers will stop doing what they do, probably just go more underground and be a bit less overt about who they are etc.

Peace

[Genesis]

Hmm... Essentially outlaw bike gangs are a branch of organised crime. There for they should be made illegal. There is a difference between a bike gangs and bike clubs. There are many, many great bikies and bike clubs out there that do amazing work for the community only to be viewed as scum because they ride a Harley, have a beard and are covered in tats.

There is a large stigma, and there has since the 60's, around bikies. I don't know whether it is a case of "A few spoiling it for the rest" or if certain groups are just nasty pricks. Back in the day, when I was 18 19, I would frequent pubs and tattoo shows that were crawling with Immortals. Some of the nicest fellas I have ever met, buy you a beer, have a yarn about back in the day, pass a spliff around, was mad fun.

I knew a few of them were up to no good, they could be the nastiest pricks if you fucked with one of their mates, but as a whole they were rocking.

To be honest I really don't know. If a branch of the gang is involved with criminal activities, weapons, drugs, murder, then for sure close down that chapter.

Maybe closing down ALL the gangs may solve the problem, maybe it will just drive them underground and they will be harder to sport cause they wont be patched, who knows. One thing is for sure, these blokes aint the type to fold up their jackets and put them in the draw just cause the fuzz says gangs are a no no.

Gen

[Torsten]

closing them down won't solve anything as they will just move underground. This was the result in other countries and australia is making the same mistake. These laws aren't wanted by the police and aren't seen as useful by academics in the field. The only ones who are pushing these laws are governments that got caught out sitting on their hands on this issue for years and years. Now they want to appear all proactive.

I nearly peed myselfwhen the police minister said the other day that the bikie was was under control. I mean, if you count daily attacks as 'under control' then I guess he is right. twat.

my poll choice would be between the last two, but seriously, asking if it is 'right' is pretty much irrelevant. I have no sympathy for these bikie gangs and don't really care what laws are passed against them, but as we have seen with terror laws and 'move on' laws, these laws rarely remain limited to the original target group, but rather end up being used against political opponents and in vote-buying situations. Given that these laws have been ineffectual anywhere else they have been applied, I can only see them as another attack on civil liberties far beyond the original bikie targets.

[_e_]

having grown up with various bikie influences in my life from an early age, i am of the opinion that the police/government dont have the resources to shut them down. and if they did all hell would break loose (them fighting against themselves is one thing, but approach them heavy handed and twice the energy will be exerted by them).

if anything trying to outlaw the outlaws will just make them stronger and more tightly woven.

the notorious club have upset a very fragile balance, and sadly the old school crew one percenters have mostly gone into retirement.

i dont see a pretty picture being drawn... ITs sort of like the mafia int hat the old school lived by certain principals, but nowadays its becommming more dog eat dog/chaotic/anything goes.. (notorious for reference)

i heard on the tv there was a special 'anti bikie taskforce' of, wait for 125 police officers.

they estimated the australia wide bikie network to total around 2500 ppl.. and had an even more rediculously low statistic for those involved with bikie gangs.

anyone seen the new tarrantino hellride yet?

[Uncle. S]

Well hopefully those 125 police officers all have rocket launchers and get those fuckheads out of my country

[_e_]

Well hopefully those 125 police officers all have rocket launchers and get those fuckheads out of my country

i think ull find the bikies are the ones with the rocket launches.... and the mountain hideaways.

i reckon itd all get a bit mad max if the cities were to crumble and the mountain men with their fortress's and army surplus took over

[nabraxas]

if they bring in laws that not only ban certain organisations but also make it illegal for members to meet then that seems to me to be a gross violation ov the right to free assembly & association.

not all members ov any bike gang are criminals but this kind of law would make them so.

the proportion ov violent crime in Australia that can be linked to motorcycle gangs would only be a small percentage ov the whole, but they do make a big target for politicians that want to win some votes by showing how tough they can be by bringing in yet more draconian laws.

[Neoshaman]

I really hate bikies right now because these fuckwits can't show self control we are being faced withtthe most draconian laws . Fucking idiots now what happens when these bunch of scum suckers are gone , its quite easy for the government to include new groups to this draconian legislation and makes it very easy for government to shut down any group that opposes their ideals. In NSW both sides of parliment have a right winged focussed agenda and giving either of these political parties in their current state the ability to shut down any group who's actions they don't like I find to be a very scary thought.

The fact of the matter is how long have the police sat on their fucking arses and let organised crime and bikie gangs fucking run riot and do what ever they want. I know of many a bikie who has slept with underaged girls , given them drugs and taken advanatge to them or sell copious amounts of drugs the police cannot be completely oblivious to such action but yet they seem to turn a blind eye either that or they don't have the fucking balls to go after real criminals and instead they go and prosecute the young and more vunerable members of the community for possession and the such.

One thing i will say most bikies I've met are rreally nice guys one on one its when they are with their mates and the pack mentaility kicks in they seem to deteroriate to just that a brainless vicious pack animal

[ThunderIdeal]

perhaps their plan was to "use" this issue to pass new legislation, which would first require that they let the issue get out of control and build a bit of public outrage.

everybody here knows how they could put an end to the majority of gang violence, but it's more along the lines of scrapping old legislation.

[MindExpansion]

everybody here knows how they could put an end to the majority of gang violence, but it's more along the lines of scrapping old legislation.

Amen

[Chiral]

So bikies live by their own rules..gun each other down, make their own drugs and live a lawless life in the mountains...sounds familiar to how a lot of people would want to live...I don't get it. For us to say outlaw them is pure hypocrisy.

H.

[Gunter]

This so reminds me of the Mad Max films...

[B. Loco]

I used to 'roll' (many years ago) with a group that's been name-dropped in the media lately - as an outsider who was given the open door (for no reason, just people I knew) and I have to say that they controlled a shitload of the amphetamine market in sydney back then, as well as the primo weed supply - anyone remember thai buddha sticks, sinsemellia, afghan gold hash etc ? The times before this shit hydro weed that we get these days. This 'group' also stood over 25 illegal gambling dens in Sydney for 'security money', which was lucrative in itself. But apart from that, when we would turn up to the 'clubhouse' - a high-fenced corrugated sheeting barrier, social night would be family affairs. They would hire a band (generally a cover-band doing Sabbath, or ACDC, or Purple, or Zep), they would open their bar and you would pay a dollar for a beer - no profit, riht, just a replenishment of the booze fund), and weirdly, members who wanted to have a bong went into the kitchen to the side of the room. Overall, it was a formative part of my existence, but there was no doubt that they had their fingers in all sorts of illegal activity. I never got any grief myself (as a regular non-member - one of four over 6 years) but there was no doubt as to he wealth within the community. Even back then, though, these guys weren't the kind of fellows you would get smug with at the local pub.

These days, the underground is attracting a lot of big lebanese boys. As such, the rules of engagement have started to change...

Is ther a "Bikie War" crisis loomimg ? Fk no, the Daily Telegraph is beating it up out of all proportion. Fuck it, I say, let various groups fight it out, this should be a national pastime. But if we enjoy the freedom of this society, then it;s 10xfold for Bahrain.

I wanna see some BLOOD

[Torsten]

loco, the problem isn't that they are fighting amongst themselves. as a liberal polly said today [can't believe I agree with a liberal!], if they got into a room and killed each other then no one would care. But the problem is that they do it where they put others in harms way. I've never had a problem with victimless crime, but think of how terrified the people at the airport were, or how rattled the neighbours in drive-by shootings are. It's only a matter of time before some innocent bystander gets killed. That's why I have no problem with a crack down, but like I said, these laws are dangerous and pointless. I also think that they will actually defeat the purpose as the legal appeals will drag on for years and will probably beat some of these laws. ie the net effect will be quashed convictions and underground gangs.

[Teotzlcoatl]

It blows me away how shitty y'all's government is... I thought the U.S. was supposed to suck? Every single post I see about Oz government makes me happy to live in the U.S. (enjoying my kratom and salvia while hanging out with my biker buddies).

[rogdog]

I think the recent public clashes are a direct result of pressure being applied by the police, and the gangs protecting their territory.

A big problem is that the outlaw gangs are very cashed up, and when they face court, they can afford the best lawyers. Imagine if cannabis was legalised and sold at pharmacies. That would take a huge chunk out of criminal gangs income. It would also leave police with more time and recources to concentrate on real crime.

It's worth remembering, that these gangs only make money by providing a service that noone else provides. If people didn't want drugs and cheap cars, the gangs couldn't make money by providing them.

Banning outlaw motorcycle clubs is not the answer. If the government/police think someone is a criminal, catch them doing the wrong thing, and put them before a judge. Freedom to associate with whoever you like has to be protected. Bikies are not stupid, if these banned association laws are enacted, they will all train to become lawyers, and claim that whoever they were talking to and what was said is confidential. Just another stupid and un-workable law.

Edited April 8, 2009 by rogdog

[rogdog]

A quicker way of saying all that, is take away their income, and the criminal element of the clubs will disolve on their own. Prohibition only makes criminals wealthy.

[G*P]

any legislation that could be passed to affect bikers,

Will be the end of us all through 'precedent'.

Im am on the bikers side.

[ThunderIdeal]

yep

this is how you boil a frog folks