Azures, Subs..what wood chips..?

[Chiral]

What is the preferred wood of Azures and Subs...in the Australian natural environment, around what kinds of woody debri and mulch do they fruit in.

Don't tell me to look at Shroomery because all the answers there are American based.

thanks.

H.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Hunab Ku

[Ace]

What is the preferred wood of Azures and Subs

Almost any, but with a preference for deciduous woods (those that lose their leaves over winter). The chip piles that local councils leave lying around from time to time is perfect because they are usually composed of several sorts, including deciduous woods. Pretty much any 'beauty bark' (garden mulch) seems to be a good place to start.

Don't tell me to look at Shroomery because all the answers there are American based

More or less the same answers, regardless of being american based, considering that subs are so similar to the american native, Ps. azurescens.

[obtuse]

hey Hunab,

What is the preferred wood of Azures and Subs

I cant tell you much about azures, but from what ive seen of subs, they seem to like eucalypt sticks, bark and leaves a lot (so by virtue of that fact also sawdust or chips). I've noticed they also like blackberry branches, bracken stems and tea-tree branches, so id say they would happily take to a lot of things. I guess whatever is available to them given the opportunity.

In urban, semi-urban areas as ace said they turn up in all sorts of woodchips.

They seem to be very adaptive so keep your eyes open. they turn up in the oddest places ;)

cheers, Obtuse.

[Undergrounder]

As above, except they like old, grey worn woodchips much more than fresh chips.

Also there is a hell of a lot of Australian info at the shroomery, more than here (if you can get past the annoying noobish banter)

[Evil Genius]

Hey Hunab! Most german mushroom growers that grow edibles use birch or oak! They should be ok for growing all types of mushrooms! Just make totally sure that they are not treated! Some people sometimes sell wood without knowing if and how its treated! bye Eg

[poo]

As above, except they like old, grey worn woodchips much more than fresh chips.

That has also been my (admittedly limited) experience of the Blue Mountains area looking for subs. I've also never found actives in bark chips, only woodchips.

Edited March 17, 2009 by poo

[alkatrope]

Yeah alot I've seen in natural environment have been in decomposing eucalypt.

[Chiral]

Mmmm some good info here thanks guys..was wondering cause I was trying to study their natural environment and possibly understand it more intimately...I noticed that no one has mentioned pine bark...I guess what I'm getting at is what are the barks and woods that they don't flourish on.

H.

[random fly]

Hmmm yeah, it would be nice to know if anybody has had sucess with pinebark, it's easily available to allot of us... Also, how/where does one get eucalyptus mulch?

[Undergrounder]

It's suggested that woodlovers don't like pine bark because of the sap, but i have personally seen sub mycelium all through pine bark and they don't seem to mind it at all. They also like eucalyptus, and i've seen sub mycelium eat through a mix of the two no problem.

You can get Euc mulch at Bunnings.

Hunab in the season i would look through parks and secluded trails all through your area, i've seen plenty of nice looking chip gardens all through your end of town. The only problem it needs to be shit cold to find fruit in this city.. we only get one or two fruitings in the middle of winter while the colder parts of the state get a longer season.

[Mufungo]

SWIM tried unsuccessfully getting subs to grow on fresh pine bark. But strophs seem to love it.

[Mycot]

In regards to azures and some other woodlovers it seems that fresh eucalypt is also problematic from some of the above.

Sure one can age wood but this is time consuming and inconvenient.

A good all round wood for woodlovers seems difficult to source unless one has a chipper and easy access to oak or other well trialled northern hemishere trees. Are there good aussie options besides trial and error ?

[random fly]

When you say 'fresh' eucalypt, does that include packaged stuff? How fresh are we talking? I'm assuming that the eucalyptus oil would be what's causing the problem...

[Undergrounder]

When you say 'fresh' eucalypt, does that include packaged stuff? How fresh are we talking? I'm assuming that the eucalyptus oil would be what's causing the problem...

Don't know about azures but subs probably have no problem growing through fresh (out of the bag) eucalypt mulch from what i've seen.

This is an experiment done a long time ago with mycelium very similar to subs in fresh eucalypt, similar ones done in fresh pine bark, and they all ended up well colonised:

Edited March 19, 2009 by Undergrounder

[Zen Peddler]

Almost any, but with a preference for deciduous woods (those that lose their leaves over winter). The chip piles that local councils leave lying around from time to time is perfect because they are usually composed of several sorts, including deciduous woods. Pretty much any 'beauty bark' (garden mulch) seems to be a good place to start

Not quite - subaeruginosa prefers native substrates like eucalyptus mulch but its also a huge fan of pinus radiata needles and pine bark.

Whereas your american continental species grow pretty much exclusively on hardwood chips and debris - Ps.azurescens and Ps.cyanescens resisted fruiting or even colonising native Australian substrates - got a bit of growth on some pine bark and some rose clippings but that was it. WHen the smoking alder wood chips were spent so was the patch...

[Ace]

Thanks for clarifying Zen - I didn't realise that the US species were so different to ours. IME azures seem to highly favour just about any mixed chips that are put in front of them, but yet to try any straight pine or eucy chips, so cannot comment in that regard. Interesting to hear that subs like pine needles/bark - I thought the sap would have been a deterrent.

[obtuse]

subaeruginosa prefers native substrates like eucalyptus mulch but its also a huge fan of pinus radiata needles and pine bark.

Not surprised about euc mulch, pretty well a given ime.

But im surprised about the pinus radiata needles and pine bark, as i've never found subs anywhere near pine trees.

There's a good experiment there for the curious to try out.

Here's a question. How about wattle bark or foliage? I have a lot of silver wattles in my region, and again i've never found them near these trees.

Cheers.

[alkatrope]

Last year I witnessed subs growing in the middle of a pine plantation on the Eastern side of Vic, was a first for me, usual hunting grounds for the locals though apparantly!

I wonder if there is any difference in alkaloid content between Euc subs and Pine subs..

[G*P]

^

I notice a big difference (in experience) between those that grow on different substrates. The mushrooms fruit far differently, as different substrains prefer slightly different conditions.

Experts will tell you that azures wont grow wild in oz. Unless, someone has obviously cultivated them from expansive mutlispore and are quite fortunate and sensitive to the process.

'Subaeruginosa', covers such a massive array of mushrooms..

The strains I know will fruit most prolifically on pine chip. The yellow chips you see in gardens. However, the largest fruits have always gotten a hold of a euc leaf or hardwood nut in the superficial layers of their development. There's a certain microbial synergy goin on here.

It seems the pine tree environments need to be very specific. So many pine forests are completely useless for subs.

The fave cultivated substrate for azures is pf cakes/grain-> Alder + a 50/50 cactus soil/verm casing.

[Chiral]

Geez a lot of great info has emerged in this thread...a friend has an Azures print and wishes to make the very most of its potential albeit in the wild and some solid info here its very reassuring.

H.

[Ace]

Great info indeed. A friend of mine has also tried cultivating azures in Aus with great luck (as far as the spawn run and creating outdoor beds using assorted wood chips from council piles). Still yet to see how/if/when they will fruit.

[Zen Peddler]

Subs sometimes grow under pine trees - if there is other substrates around with pine needles then they will often fruit there. Ive noticed that subs growing in this habitat tend to have lighter, thinner caps. Often they are fairly weedy, but sometimes you get a few larger specimens.

Subs grown off lignious substrates with more nutrients tend to be larger and they also tend to fruit more prolifically - and on pine bark and other mulches they are more likely to be bigger and the wavy varietion seems to appear more.

its likely that this is more the phenotypes of the same mushroom genetics than different substrains. I was quite surprised how similar the subs from the Nightcap ranges near Nimbin were with the subs found commonly around melbourne.

the subs from SA are probably the most unique genetically - they are yellow capped and microscopically they are quite different to the subs from the rest of Australia - including WA.

Azures will readily fruit in Victoria - but the patch needs to be set up and in the ground early, and covering it with a plank of wood to let it set over the warmer periods, then covering it with basic garden mulch and pine bark works fine. The blue staining on azures is a lighter colour than noticed in subs but im not sure why this is (possibly because subs have greyish streaking on their stems and azures are milk white)??. Anyway, subs will fruit after cold snaps - the colder the better so you may not notice good fruiting until June - a few months after subs have already fruited.

[naja naja]

Have found that the melbourne sub myc is alot less fussy and alot more vigorous than WA myc. 3 white woodchips posted in envelope and placed into a tub of soaked local woodchips colonised a box quicker than 100 wa sub bases placed in near identical box and treated same way. Both colonize, but the mel does it quicker and more agressively. I know they like Marri's, seem to like ghost and river gum wood too.

[Zen Peddler]

yeah the melb subs are the shit. Super potent suckers at times too...

[Mycot]

Have found that the melbourne sub myc is alot less fussy and alot more vigorous than WA myc. 3 white woodchips posted in envelope and placed into a tub of soaked local woodchips colonised a box quicker than 100 wa sub bases placed in near identical box and treated same way. Both colonize, but the mel does it quicker and more agressively. I know they like Marri's, seem to like ghost and river gum wood too.

This is interesting since it would seem to imply as some have suspected that these are two separate species.