A post about Corrupt Law Enforecement in Australia

[folias]

Australian customs are the most full on in the world... (apart from New Zealand!)

For the most part, if you are an international traveler, they won't pick you out of the crowd... but I won't tell you what they do in order to monitor your behaviour and check you out, in case you become paranoid and freak out and get the full "works" treatment.

I've been searched 3 times in my life by customs coming into Australia... the last time they were pleasant, but very much I could tell they had pulled me up on their computer as someone to search.

The time before that was very traumatic... very unpleasant woman who shouted at me and accused me of being a junkie! ("show me your arms!")

It generally takes them 1/12-2 hours... and I have had my stuff gone through twice! They check EVERYTHING! I have had papers taken away and photocopied.

Friends have had the images on their camera gone through... they really do assert you are a criminal and treat you as such until they find nothing on you!

So these Customs people range from being pure mean morons to actually really nice in my experience. AQIS or quarantine is always VERY nice and a pleasure to deal with...

Australian cops are the same, scum of the earth or virtual angels (schizho good cop/bad cop!)... and some of them smoke DMT (so I am told!)

Australian law enforcement are the biggest drug dealers in the country, and are often VERY corrupt. But nothing is done and the issue is not faced or addressed in any segment of this society.

There is this sort of informal permissive attitude that prevails here, which allows this sort of thing to go on. (the pseudo larrikan!)

Yet, anyone intelligent who does anything slightly illicit in this country now lives like a virtual spy, because they have revealed what technologies (its freakin crazy!) they use to get people and so people are very, very careful now.

With the small population, it makes it very easy to find out who is who and what is what... so it is easily the most survelled country on the planet. (can't find the stat at the mo...)

We have had this thing called the Australia Crime Commission... they have been exposed as corrupt and yet they still live!

One of their top guys was arrested with conspiracy to import millions of dollars worth of an amphetamine precursor.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/02/2262908.htm

and an ABC story about the ACC.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2004/s1143925.htm

Unbelievable!

Interestingly, the same journalist, Chris Masters wrote a book called "Not for Publication" exposing the entire corruption of the Australian police force and its culture...

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/04/19/1019020704043.html

Not that A LOT of people are not already aware of this...

That makes the ACC hearings regarding "controlled substances" on the far coast of NSW for the last TWO YEARS! (they just finished!) particularly hypocritical... and patently WRONG!

It is not right for any decent country to forcefully drag its citizens (upon threat of imprisonment for two years) to a star chamber in front of a hearing full of law enforcement agents and body language experts, cameras and prosecutationary types, playing you recordings of conversations you had in your living room *six* years ago and asking you questions about that conversation. (not that this person was me, honest guv!)

Other people have telephone conversations from two years ago played to them, and then they are asked details about what they are talking about.

They ask you a lot of questions and say they know the answer to 70% of these questions and that if you lie, you are liable for perjury and a two year jail term.

This has occured to a lot of people, often you only have to know some people or have a tenant who may be interesting to them and then go through this...

And nobody knows about this because nobody knows about it, because the people involved are told that if you tell anyone, you are liable for a two year jail term.

Also, the media can't report on it, because of these "anti-box cutting tool" laws...

But don't worry, we will expose these people for what they are doing, and people will find out and I think will be appalled.

What is going on in Australia, I see as like a "test case" for this new world governments technologies and approaches, and what's worse, they do get away with it and nobody stands up and does a thing.

It is related to a resigned convict culture where escape or rebellion is not possible.

However, there are signs of light... like this organisation.

http://www.getup.org.au/

Strangely enough, Australia can be a very decent country and one of the sanest, to my mind, but this shit is really insane.

Julian.

[apothecary]

I am sure we will see a hundred posts exclaiming how terrible this is and how we live in a police state and fuck the government, and nothing will be done again.

Boring.

Let's address the facts: certain people were adamant that blatant use, manufacture and sale of schedule 9 substances would be LET OFF by the police, that they had bigger fish to fry, that if we stood up for what we were doing we would not come under scrutiny and anyone not doing so was a chicken shit.

Even though these people knew they were ALREADY the subject of police interest at the time. They continued doing essentially as they pleased, often at the expense of someone elses freedom or safety.

Those of us who asked for caution, moderation and some plain fucking common sense were shouted down as being paranoid and spineless.

Now everything is way out in the open, with the least publically accountable and hardest of Australian Federal law enforcement involved, out to see what they can catch in their net.

Even though those blatant people were aware of this net, they continued producing, selling and manufacturing schedule 9 substances, along with the sale comes a free story about how we have nothing to fear, here buy some more drugs.

Fuck this.

You say slightly illicit like it doesn't mean Schedule 9.

You say we will expose these people, but we can't because our position has been compromised by people like you! Admittedly not just you.

You say you know cops doing S9 substances like that makes us all immune from persecution.

You say we are chicken shits, but you were the one who hopped on a plane and left when the ACC was sniffing around your shit, with no thought or care to the people you probably permanently damaged by your flippant attitude and actions. You forgot to mention to everyone this is probably the reason you were searched last time you re-entered the country.

Also heard on the grapevine you were employing counter-surveillance techniques of your own like putting your phone in a plastic bag to stop the police from using it as a listening device. If you aren't one of us chicken shits then why are you scared of what the police will hear?

I think everyone should know that the people that Julian is railing against in the above post, are interested in us as a community due in no small part to his own actions and the actions of others who look up to him as a guide.

I am personally sick of these posts Julian, I think you practice a very weird hypocrisy, and anyone foolish enough to take what you say at face value then act on it gets what they deserve. It is undeniable that you have left a trail of shattered people behind you on your righteous path, and the more of this I see with my own eyes the more scared I am of you and the impact of your actions on this community.

[folias]

Sina,

Actually I don't give a shit about the ACC PERSONALLY... people keep tell me they are talking about me and asking about me. (of course, these people should be silent, but they are not!)

This has been going on two years.

I've hoped on many several planes during the times on their investigation... I don't think they can understand why I come back personally ;-)

with no thought or care to the people you probably permanently damaged by your flippant attitude and actions.

I have no idea who or what you are talking about and what makes you think I am flippant?

I am very, very serious.

Truth is, I find the present law repugnant.

I am willing to stand up for what I believe and do what it takes to get these laws changed. If that means going to jail for breaking those laws.

SO BE IT!

And they will be transformed.

Because my friends are so much more powerful than my enemies.

Because the healing I bring is so much more potent than the dysruption to people's egoic programming.

Also heard on the grapevine you were employing counter-surveillance techniques of your own like putting your phone in a plastic bag to stop the police from using it as a listening device.

nah dude, I tested that out and it doesn't work... it is still a listening device!

It is undeniable that you have left a trail of shattered people behind you on your righteous path, and the more of this I see with my own eyes the more scared I am of you and the impact of your actions on this community.

I am tired of people like you spreading shit about me when you don't even really know me or what goes on with me. And what you hear is distorted, second or third hand bad news which is 98.5% BS!

Some people can't hack the heat...for sure.

You keep saying I have compromised other people's freedom or safety?

One of the rumours going round is that I am a undercover patsy.

Why people would rather choose division in these times is beyond me... it really is.

I'm actually trying to start a dialogue about these important and serious issues and you attack me and accuse me of damaging and shattering people?

You should be ashamed.

Julian.

[C_T]

im really not sure what i should believe...

[apothecary]

Sina,

You should be ashamed.

Julian.

Hi Julian,

For a long time you have been talking and posting and acting, I think mostly relying on peoples unwillingness to incriminate you directly.

Once again, we have reached this point. I do not want to discuss publically those scenarios, and people who I feel you have affected so negatively, at least not without yours and theirs permission. I am quite happy to discuss it with you face to face, but frankly I have already heard justifications from those close to you at the time and none of them hold water. However, some of your actions simply bear NO justification.

I also think the claim that you are not afraid is absolute bullshit, one particular scenario springs to mind aside from the phone thing, where I know you spent a lot of time with that phone in that zip-lock bag, only testing it when somebody laughed at the idea that a plastic bag could stop the phone being used as a listening device!

You claim my actions are divisive, I wonder why you did not consider yours to be for so long while some of us asked for caution and scientific rigor so we could address this situation from a sane point of view.

I think the proof is in the pudding on this one, there is no way we can talk to the police or politicians or even the medical community (with a few notable exceptions in each group) because there are people actively cooking up and selling schedule 9 substances for profit out there, there are ACC investigations, local investigations in almost every state, high level raids on our only real public face, etc etc.

I am not afraid of standing up to the law for my beliefs, in fact I have done so directly already to my own psychological detriment (thankfully no more). Does this mean I am not afraid of persecution? NO. Does this mean I will continue flaunting the law in an absurdly blatant manner to the detriment of this community? NO. Does this mean I have to put up with your high and mighty diatribes on this and other forums when I know the truth is so different from what you speak? NO.

My goal here is not a personal attack on you Julian, but to let people know the truth. I knew you would claim I was rumour-mongering, but we both know I hold no grudge against you nor do I make any personal gain from "attacking you". In fact, exactly as you say this divisiveness is costly, yet it seems I am willing to pay that price, so it is pretty obvious I think the cost of not speaking is even higher.

To that end, I frankly don't give a fuck who believes me or not. I rely only on people who know me assessment of my character to determine whether and why I would lie about such things or spread rumours rather than facts, acts and circumstances I have seen with my own eyes, if you don't think I have it in me to tell the truth then "SO BE IT".

Edited December 27, 2008 by Sina

[C_T]

The point is, this thread is not useless. I can see personal conflicts being represented, and i am new to this community so have no idea about the history. But some words are worth reading. Some are best to ignore.

On a whole, its not a worthless thread.

Thank you OP.

But i also thank Sina for the rebuttal.

[faustus]

methinks this thread should be moved to:

Bitches, gripes and degenerated threads

If you like 'Days of our lives' then check out what we dump in here.

although i much prefer the bold and the beautiful

[Torsten]

There is a big difference between small time cultivation of entheogens for personal use vs earning a high income from such activities. The ACC is not interested in the former, so if you are having issues with the ACC then it seems you invited such problems. Many people here are willing to stand up for their beliefs and will fight charges that are laid as a result of their entheogen consumption, cultivation or possession. Their struggle is complicated by the fact that other people do the same activity at a grander scale in order to enrich themselves. This makes it much harder for the spiritual seeker to either not be noticed in the first place, or to defend onself in court if it comes to it. I fail to see how your activity Julian has helped in any way. You may have created a bit of a cult following around you and lived the lifestyle you had aspired to, but your overall effect on the state of tryptamines in the community has been a detrimental one. It's not like you were the first to discover tryptamines, but you were certainly the first to facilitate them around INDISCRIMINATELY.

I warned you about tryptamines having become a target about 2 years ago when I became privvy to some Federal police documents. You dismissed this as utter nonsense, yet at the same time you started complaining about being searched at customs all the time and having your name pop up in ACC interviews. So either you were ignorant or you were dishonest about the true state of tryptamine attention. It doesn't really matter which.

I am not sure I agree with sina about you leaving wrecks in your wake. I think it is more complex than that. I think you attract a lot of individuals who are lost and who are easily manipulated and hence it is only a matter of time before they end up a mess - regardless of what your influence might be. Some might see it as preying on the vulnerable, but I think it is just your own weakness.

Your original post is so full of factual mistakes I wonder why you bothered making it. Maybe do some research and then correct it.

[folias]

Sina,

I am quite happy to discuss it with you face to face, but frankly I have already heard justifications from those close to you at the time and none of them hold water. However, some of your actions simply bear NO justification.

I have no idea what you are talking of.

I knew you would claim I was rumour-mongering

What is it then?

What are you trying to achieve?

notice this from the post on aya.com

"http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Article 12.

"No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks."

I don't appreciate these attacks on my reputation actually.

Maybe you should spend your time and energy communicating something salient rather than casting silent, stinging aspertions on my character.

You claim my actions are divisive, I wonder why you did not consider yours to be for so long while some of us asked for caution and scientific rigor so we could address this situation from a sane point of view.

I'm sorry... what is that going to achieve?

What can science say about this that it hasn't already? What can caution achieve?

My goal here is not a personal attack on you Julian, but to let people know the truth. I knew you would claim I was rumour-mongering, but we both know I hold no grudge against you nor do I make any personal gain from "attacking you". In fact, exactly as you say this divisiveness is costly, yet it seems I am willing to pay that price, so it is pretty obvious I think the cost of not speaking is even higher.

Dude, you have some charge with me and I have never been able to figure it out... I've always tried to be friendly to you and you have always been antagonistic and touchy.

Denis has gone on a "truth" rampage before and... and what was that about... really just his own stuff... maybe you need to look deeper into yourself here for some resolution. But your judgments are pointless... you have the right to your opinion though and I disagree with it.

To that end, I frankly don't give a fuck who believes me or not. I rely only on people who know me assessment of my character to determine whether and why I would lie about such things or spread rumours rather than facts, acts and circumstances I have seen with my own eyes, if you don't think I have it in me to tell the truth then "SO BE IT".

Maybe you should PM me and I would have some idea about what you are talking about... because, I frankly don't and I have mentioned this to other people and they don't have any idea what you are talking of either.

Torsten,

Shame on you too mate.

It is just as well for you I can take it and I am "fair enough" not to dish it back to you.

I am not focusing in this field to make money... fark! I know that what most people can only understand.

Most of the time I am not running on much gas, and give and share what I have to the point where I'm actually losing out.

So please don't put me into that camp!

I think you attract a lot of individuals who are lost and who are easily manipulated and hence it is only a matter of time before they end up a mess - regardless of what your influence might be. Some might see it as preying on the vulnerable, but I think it is just your own weakness.

Jesus. Who or what you are talking about here I don't really know.

But I can say I am not responsible for how people choose to live their lives.

And I don't appreciate you saying that I am manipulating other people... maybe you should communicate in PM what you have seen, because that doesn't really stick with me and just aligns with people's fears of being controlled by someone they may think is stronger than them.

Yes, I am stronger in many ways, and weaker in other ways.

You should ask people who know me how they were before and after they know me, if you really care so much!

I know some of the most incredible people... you posit them to be my followers or something, as if they are directly responding to my will... and that's just plain BS.

I warned you about tryptamines having become a target about 2 years ago when I became privvy to some Federal police documents. You dismissed this as utter nonsense, yet at the same time you started complaining about being searched at customs all the time and having your name pop up in ACC interviews. So either you were ignorant or you were dishonest about the true state of tryptamine attention. It doesn't really matter which.

No, I have always just been rightous that tryptamines are what we need to do, and we should not be criminalised for doing the right thing, to increase our awareness and connection to ourselves and many other aspects of reality.

I'm glad they're interested, frankly, because it gives us the chance to blow the bubble on this story.

Fark man, some of us have been waiting for this for years.

I have. I'm glad they are interested!

The point is, I believe the tryptamines are beneficial, that people should take them, for their health, for their own awareness and for many, many reasons.

Thousands upon of people could attest to how tryptamines have benefitted them in Australia, many more overseas.

Certainly, the indigenous people could - if they are prepared to!

And they greet us upon entering this site... funny that.

I think, lets focus on the important things here.

I fail to see how your activity Julian has helped in any way. You may have created a bit of a cult following around you and lived the lifestyle you had aspired to, but your overall effect on the state of tryptamines in the community has been a detrimental one.

It's like you are talking about someone else quite frankly.

Well, you are welcome to your own opinion and a lot of people, especially in northern NSW... who believe that tryptamines are their proprietary product for their own little cult and/or private money making enterprise...would agree with you. Most other people I don't think would.

I disagree with these cult/money people and believe that everyone has the RIGHT to access tryptamines.

I am not sure what you mean by "the state" of tryptamines... I'm very sorry for you if you don't see the benefits I have brought to this community, to the world. Because every day, I wake up glad, satisfied that I have made a difference that very few human beings have in their lifetime.

Your original post is so full of factual mistakes I wonder why you bothered making it. Maybe do some research and then correct it.

Maybe you should, for the sake of community spill the beans on what you know, because this is what I tried to do. Maybe you could provide some "research material"

In fact, I dare you to.

And the truth shall set you free...

Julian.

[Torsten]

Most of the time I am not running on much gas, and give and share what I have to the point where I'm actually losing out.

LOL. You see, I have no problem with people making money. I have a problem with people claiming they don't do it for money.

And I don't appreciate you saying that I am manipulating other people... maybe you should communicate in PM what you have seen, because that doesn't really stick with me and just aligns with people's fears of being controlled by someone they may think is stronger than them.

We've had this discussion before. It was a nasty thread where you revealed a lot about yourself and the people around you. But then you requested the thread to be deleted! I couldn't be bothered covering the same ground again as it always ends up hurting innocent bystanders.

Just remember, nothing on the web is ever truely deleted and as far as forum posts go, I don't delete them, I just make them invisible.

You should ask people who know me how they were before and after they know me, if you really care so much!

I don't need to do that. You are forgettign that I actually knew quite a few of these people before they met you.

I'm glad they're interested, frankly, because it gives us the chance to blow the bubble on this story.

So you think the fact law enforcement has become aware of tryptamines as a result of your work is a good thing? Please clarify because that is what you seem to be saying.

Fark man, some of us have been waiting for this for years.

'Some' .... maybe. Others would have preffered the opposite. But you have removed the choice.

It's like you are talking about someone else quite frankly.

Well, either I am completely wrong then or you have an unrealistic perception of yourself

Well, you are welcome to your own opinion and a lot of people, especially in northern NSW... who believe that tryptamines are their proprietary product for their own little cult and/or private money making enterprise...would agree with you. Most other people I don't think would.

Please don't lump me in with the people who dole out plant secrets for their own grandification. I have been against that ever since I arrived in this area and it is one of the few things you and I have ever agreed on. Making knowlegde available is a different story to making tryptamines available though especially if this is done indiscriminately. While I believe anyone should have the access to do things themselves, I have never believed in actually making things so accessible that no skill, thought or preparation is required before consumption. No culture in the world has ever done that without detriment to itself and the substance.

I am not sure what you mean by "the state" of tryptamines... I'm very sorry for you if you don't see the benefits I have brought to this community, to the world. Because every day, I wake up glad, satisfied that I have made a difference that very few human beings have in their lifetime.

There are people who have done a lot more for tryptamine availability around the world than you have - but without the associated damage.

Maybe you should, for the sake of community spill the beans on what you know, because this is what I tried to do. Maybe you could provide some "research material". In fact, I dare you to.

see next post

[Torsten]

Australian customs are the most full on in the world... (apart from New Zealand!)

You have never dealt with Russian customs then? Aussie customs are pretty slack unless you are marked. That's when things get uncomfortable. In many other countries things get pretty bad just at random.

I am kinda glad they now have an optional body scanner. It will avoid a lot of personal violation.

It generally takes them 1/12-2 hours... and I have had my stuff gone through twice! They check EVERYTHING! I have had papers taken away and photocopied.

They usually only do this when they suspect smuggling operations. I think your hiccup in holland would have given them enough cause. I doubt most individuals will ever find themselves in such a situation - regardless of misunderstanding or not.

Australian law enforcement are the biggest drug dealers in the country, and are often VERY corrupt. But nothing is done and the issue is not faced or addressed in any segment of this society.

While I have no doubt that LE are major drug dealers, I really can't see them rivalling some of the other organised crime syndicates in oz. You are stating this as if fact, but really there is very little to back this up, right?

Yet, anyone intelligent who does anything slightly illicit in this country now lives like a virtual spy, because they have revealed what technologies (its freakin crazy!) they use to get people and so people are very, very careful now.

Perpetuating untruths only helps to feed this fear. Ask me if you really don't know what I mean.

With the small population, it makes it very easy to find out who is who and what is what... so it is easily the most survelled country on the planet. (can't find the stat at the mo...)

Actually, we are not. By a long margin. But NSW is definitelly the most surveilled state in australia, or at least the one with the most phonetaps - by a wide margin.

We have had this thing called the Australia Crime Commission... they have been exposed as corrupt and yet they still live!

The NCA was shut down because of its abuse of power. A few years later [thanks to 911] the ACC was reformed with the same charter. Since then very few officers have been found to be corrupt - less than in other agencies. This might be because the new ACC was established with greater controls in place or maybe because they've gotten smarter and aren't getting caught anymore. Other than some petty gun stuff in adelaide I am not aware of any major ACC agent incidents.

One of their top guys was arrested with conspiracy to import millions of dollars worth of an amphetamine precursor.

I think you might be talking about Mark Standon at the NSW Crime Commission. This is a completely distinct agency from the ACC. The ACC is overseen by the federal police commissioner, while the NSW crime commission is overseen by the NSW police minister.

Maybe your rant should focus on the NSW crime commission as they have definitely been shown to be corrupt.

That makes the ACC hearings regarding "controlled substances" on the far coast of NSW for the last TWO YEARS! (they just finished!)

They just finished? Would be nice, but I wonder what makes you post such a flippant statement.

It is not right for any decent country to forcefully drag its citizens (upon threat of imprisonment for two years) to a star chamber in front of a hearing full of law enforcement agents and body language experts, cameras and prosecutationary types, playing you recordings of conversations you had in your living room *six* years ago and asking you questions about that conversation. (not that this person was me, honest guv!)

I agree with you there. The whole ACC thing was a total eye opener for me. I remember how people were upset about the coersive powers in the terrorism act, even though these powers already existed in the NCA from 1984.

However, I think you will find that it is not 2 years penalty. I think a few people might take 2 years on the chin. It is in fact 7 [or possibly just 5] years. Sorry, can't remember which as it's been a year since I read the act.

Other people have telephone conversations from two years ago played to them, and then they are asked details about what they are talking about.

And if you don't remember you can just say that! Politicians use this excuse at the ICAC [which has similar coersive powers] all the time.

They ask you a lot of questions and say they know the answer to 70% of these questions and that if you lie, you are liable for perjury and a two year jail term.

Same penalty as above. up to 7 years.

I think the 2 year thing crept into the local chit chat because this is what was threatened to some people as the time they were told 'the last guy who lied' got.

And nobody knows about this because nobody knows about it, because the people involved are told that if you tell anyone, you are liable for a two year jail term.

7

Also, the media can't report on it, because of these "anti-box cutting tool" laws...

People [incl media] can talk about it 5 years later. However, no one does. Don't forget that this has been goign on since 1984 and only a handful of cases have challenged this in the High Court. Even less have gotten any sort of media coverage.

But don't worry, we will expose these people for what they are doing, and people will find out and I think will be appalled.

Somehow I don't think this is going to end up the way you think..... we are not the first community to be targeted and none of the previous ones ever got much exposure. I doubt the media is suddenly going to pick up the 'hippie cause'.

[folias]

LOL. You see, I have no problem with people making money. I have a problem with people claiming they don't do it for money.

point is, you made it ABOUT the money... and for me its not.

We've had this discussion before. It was a nasty thread where you revealed a lot about yourself and the people around you. But then you requested the thread to be deleted! I couldn't be bothered covering the same ground again as it always ends up hurting innocent bystanders.

Just remember, nothing on the web is ever truely deleted and as far as forum posts go, I don't delete them, I just make them invisible.

It was a nasty thread because CS had this agenda to discredit me on a very long and misconstrued rampage which I simply replied to.

I don't need to do that. You are forgettign that I actually knew quite a few of these people before they met you.

ah look, I find the allegation that I have somehow twisted or manipulated other people to be plain silly... especially to the point where their state has become deletarious to themselves and/or others...

Somehow people have this idea if I am around someone (or even if I just know them) who is going through a hard time, then I am likely directly responsible... of course, a lot of people would like to think that, which I think is very lame personally. And then stories get out of control...and distorted... but look, we all know this and have talked about this already!

So you think the fact law enforcement has become aware of tryptamines as a result of your work is a good thing? Please clarify because that is what you seem to be saying.

Ultimately, I think it is a good thing, because then we have to deal with the legalities of this... I am not sure if I am directly responsible for law enforcement becoming aware of the tryptamines. I think there are a lot of circumstances and people involved in that.

I think we can blame Reptyle for that! ;-)

Please don't lump me in with the people who dole out plant secrets for their own grandification. I have been against that ever since I arrived in this area and it is one of the few things you and I have ever agreed on. Making knowlegde available is a different story to making tryptamines available though especially if this is done indiscriminately. While I believe anyone should have the access to do things themselves, I have never believed in actually making things so accessible that no skill, thought or preparation is required before consumption. No culture in the world has ever done that without detriment to itself and the substance.

Well, your beliefs are different to mine in this regard.

The particular substance we call "toothpaste" is incredibly useful and very accesible... very few people know how to prepare it, and very few people have the skill to make it.

The thing is, a lot of people don't THINK - and if we can cause them to think, GREAT!

And lot of people will never think, and that's just the way it appears to be.

The point is, we are dealing with a particular global circumstance and time... not necessarily how an ideal culture should be.

That is another issue.

There are people who have done a lot more for tryptamine availability around the world than you have - but without the associated damage.

I don't see the damage sorry.

You have never dealt with Russian customs then?

Well, I've been through Russian customs and the full body x-rays and all that, and yeah, and they are hardcore and wily in Russia, in general... but Russians have a myopic side to them in their intensity... Australia's more laid back, perhaps more common senssical, marsuipial focus is actually more effective I would say.

While I have no doubt that LE are major drug dealers, I really can't see them rivalling some of the other organised crime syndicates in oz. You are stating this as if fact, but really there is very little to back this up, right?

I take this back... of course there is very little to back this up.

I suppose it comes down to there being a complicit co-operation with organised crime syndicates...

(see next)

Edited December 30, 2008 by folias

[folias]

I doubt most individuals will ever find themselves in such a situation - regardless of misunderstanding or not.

I was searched when I was 18 too...

I think you might be talking about Mark Standon at the NSW Crime Commission. This is a completely distinct agency from the ACC. The ACC is overseen by the federal police commissioner, while the NSW crime commission is overseen by the NSW police minister.

Maybe your rant should focus on the NSW crime commission as they have definitely been shown to be corrupt.

I'm just a truly foolish, incensed individual who spelt the topic of this thread wrong he was so livid!

"on the street", I hear the term ACC all the time...so it sticks.

They just finished? Would be nice, but I wonder what makes you post such a flippant statement.

We have been told this investigation on the far north coast, finished this december, but who knows.

Actually, we are not. By a long margin. But NSW is definitely the most surveilled state in australia, or at least the one with the most phonetaps - by a wide margin.

tried to find the stats... anyone?

Somehow I don't think this is going to end up the way you think..... we are not the first community to be targeted and none of the previous ones ever got much exposure. I doubt the media is suddenly going to pick up the 'hippie cause'.

I wouldn't be saying anything unless I wasn't already working on it and had good faith that we would achieve public exposure.

All you have given is facts... what about writing something more chunky than that Torsten?

or are you....Chicken!

Julian.

[reptyle]

Its quite clear that in Australia the depth of understanding of the higher elements and aspects of conversation and culture are not integrated enough into common sense/courtesy to support a stable and advantageous entheogenic system. What appears to be the yearning for a liberated system is merely a diseased state of mind finding its own inability to deal with the obvious fact that "we" just aren't mature enough to treat such sacred substances with the supreme level of respect they require and deserve.

I've seen some strange things in my time but these conversations read like a proof as to the true reasoning behind the social psychopanalysts reasoning for not placing any trust in the "skill" of the conjurer.

tomorrow i will wake up and blame...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...the voice inside had no sense of justice, specifically the finer points of social manipulation on a grand scale.

The architects own home will be the masterpiece.

[_e_]

Its quite clear that in Australia the depth of understanding of the higher elements and aspects of conversation and culture are not integrated enough into common sense/courtesy to support a stable and advantageous entheogenic system. What appears to be the yearning for a liberated system is merely a diseased state of mind finding its own inability to deal with the obvious fact that "we" just aren't mature enough to treat such sacred substances with the supreme level of respect they require and deserve.

I've seen some strange things in my time but these conversations read like a proof as to the true reasoning behind the social psychopanalysts reasoning for not placing any trust in the "skill" of the conjurer..

some of the most sense ive been able to make from your sphere in a while dude.. . wholeheartedly agree.

(although i dont think it is just 'australia')

i have a lot of thoughts and input into this discussion, however i dont know if i will put the time and energy into it just at present... might take me a good month to properly digest and integrate what ive read/heard/thought over the past few years on this topic... and then coherently communicate it through this medium.

its a 'busy' space thats for sure!

[Teotzlcoatl]

Not reading the whole thread, but I agree with the O.P.

We have got to stand up for our rights!!!

I do just as I please, because I know in my heart of hearts what I do is NOT wrong! I wish to help humanity, not to hurt it!

Stand up!!!

[Chiral]

Actually, we are not. By a long margin. But NSW is definitely the most surveilled state in australia, or at least the one with the most phonetaps - by a wide margin.

I can believe this statement..

H.

[folias]

I've been considering what Torsten and Sina have been saying here...

And I find it so disrespectful, I feel sorry for them.... more like compassion perhaps, for having these deceptive, forceful machinations within themselves, of what I experience as hate and malice.

Sina posits his perspective as if I have been infecting the law obeying ethnobotany

community with some destructive voodoo... personally, I don't see that at all, only that Sina may be projecting his shadow onto me.

And he says he is scared of me... but what is he scared of really?

All I've been saying is that we must stand up against these laws.

And if that means being beaten down by men with sticks... over and over! Then what this represents is a valid non-violent protest which bring attention to the seriousness of the matter at hand.

I understand many, if not most people, have no interest in losing a few millimetres off their fingernails for a cause greater than themselves.

I say to that, "wake up people!", before more of your rights are taken away!

Get off your bottom and get angry!

Enough of this cowering in the repression of "The Man." (try to find him if you can?)

Even in countries, and in cultures where repression is routine, people still stand up and do what they believe is right and true and pay the price!

Alan Clements, the first American to become a Buddhist monk in Burma once told the story of a comedian who had just gotten out of 10 years of hard labour, breaking rocks for mildy satirising the military junta. He came to a small "illegal" gathering, of a few hundred people, and gave a performance, mildly satirising the military junta. And then after he was finished, he was taken away and sentenced to another 10 years of hard labour breaking rocks.

What people put up with in many countries is just so intense... and what we are dealing with is just so great! It is a different kind of liberation, which is just as important and relevant as freedom of speech.

I really feel these plants are the most true way we can access what has previously been called "The Truth"... they are really are, virtually, "the way." Many cultures (if not most!) know this... yet all this is hidden from us.

These plants we are dealing with... they are the key to the dreamtime, to healing our separation from spirit - many people know about this.

(A friend just told me he knows of THREE people getting off Heroin addictions because of DMT)

Many don't even apparently believe in a spirit.. or anything greater than themselves, and tend to maintain that only the mind and body are real.

That's the white man's sickness, as I see it, because its not the truth. And I don't want to get fundamentalist - but most all men and women of knowledge in most attuned cultures would agree with me I don't doubt.

White society in general is sick .. with its eyes unallowed to see the truth. And so we do what can to open its eyes - that there is much more than the white man's reductionistic science and pitiful religion.

These plants can really allow us to understand we are a spiritual consciousnss in a way that few, if anything can. And there is healing in that.

The white man's consciousness maintains everything is cool and good if you follow the straightjacket way (i.e. don't rock the boat), but that is so clearly denial.

And does not recognise healing, because that perspective does not recognise a form of sentience that CAN be healed! Yet, the plants evidently demonstrate, that they can bring us to a profound sense of balance and harmony, that we ourselves may often have difficulty initially understanding.

And we must maintain that using these plants is right and true.

Let us not get caught up in the old ways of secrets and initations and power struggles, let people access it and let them decide when they are ready and how they should intelligently use these plants.

Also, this is not all serious and sacred sacred initiation. There is an element in all this that is liberating in its playfullness and humour.

Developing a culture, where intelligence and sanity rules, and I feel that is very important. Where repression, fear and persecution remain in a society... intelligence goes out the window and people become unable to be responsible for what is good for them. I have witnessed that in countries like Sweden, for example.

In the English speaking countries, we live in an incredibly complacent, and indolent culture, where the often abstract letters of the law has become more important than our own inner, moral compass. And then the facility of the law itself, has become deeply corrupt, where the entire moral compass is entirely lost, leaving us all out to sea.

We have then lost sight of what is important, and what is valuable.

And that what is even more sick, is that this understanding of such corruption in these insitutions is not even allowed to reach mainstream media in Australia! That it is all hidden, in this deep underbelly, the unofficial shadow. And it should not be so! Why do we accept that it should be this way or inevitably must be! In many countries, they would not tolerate a hint of what we accept as something like "human nature".

Lets integrate this material and bring it to light, and relinquish the culture of blame and punishment... that is the only sane way!

My agenda from the get go has been to bring public attention to the tryptamines, educate people about them, and help create a sane culture.

From the get go, I have been trying to make redundant this little bubble of elitist insiders, who hide out in fear and restriction, and actually not be fearful or restricted myself.

The number of people I personally know who have been called up to this crime commission hearing is very small... I really don't know the "major players" in the northern rivers area. Perhaps, I would know two people, both of who have evaded being called up to this hearing. I know another two people, who have publically talked about being called up to this commission.

My intention for communicating this was just to let more people know this occuring, it was originally just a post on aya.com which progressed from that.

Yes, I'm deliberately trying to rock the boat! Again, we are so complacent and without energy to change or transform! And then people get rightous with me, and want the boat to be still, for them to be undisturbed in their disquiet and stagnation.

And what remains is this dull insanity of the rules and regulation, "playing the game", as often corrupt as it is.

I find Torsten quite arrogant, because he likes to "plays the game", and apparently gets a kick out of it.

But Torsten, I should tell you I know a lot about your past, and all I can say is, you have your own karma mate. But to accuse another of what you have perpetuated in the past, I feel, is your own projection of your shadow onto me. Tryptamines generally have a healing effect.. and relatively safe compared to your accelerated broths!

And I don't judge you!

And I stopped projecting my shadow onto you... long ago!

Look, I don't think the tryptamines are all sunshine and lollipops either... and can magnify what is already latent in individuals... and I don't think all individuals are ready for them... but I generally think we must let people decide when they are ready and actually come to some form of individual and collective intelligence. When you are learning, sometimes you need to get your hand burnt. This is powerful stuff. but I don't think prohibition is the way, nor is the traditional or indigenous model suitable for us in the west, I don't think.

Regardless, I do think we should be strong, and say, "hey this game sucks... I am not playing" and that means stepping out of the sanctions that society places over us and actually being an individual with sovereignty to express themselves as an individual and be unafraid! Not the rote piece meal of conformism and shallow momentum of the known.

A lot of people say, "well, this civilisation is going down the tube anyway... so why bother?"

I have to say with myself, its not in my conscious will, I am posessed by something much greater than my conscious self which is coming through with this agenda.

Somethings got to give, and we should be prepared to stand up for this change, and be prepared to accept the consequences, which are insignificant in compared to what our forefathers have had to bear, for actually taking a stand against what they felt was unjust.

Julian.

[folias]

Martin W. Ball - "Entheogenic Spirituality as a Human Right"

http://www.realitysandwich.com/entheogenic...ity_human_right

"Not only have many sought to find this re-enchantment through Eastern and Indigenous traditions, but also through the use of psychedelics and entheogens. However, these agents of spiritual experience and awakening are largely illegal in the West, making those who would use the sacred plants to find their connection to the sacred into criminals and outlaws. We are told that while we are free to believe that visionary medicines are sacred and a connection to the divine, we are not permitted to practice, as our practice is in conflict with other legal priorities, such as the so-called "war on drugs."

How would things be different if not just belief and practice were protected by law, but if spiritual experience itself were also protected? What I would like to argue is that direct spiritual experience is the most intimate aspect of our religious or spiritual freedom and is central to our ability to freely explore our own spiritual natures. In short, the primary argument here is that it is time to reframe the discussion. Direct spiritual experience should be a fundamental human right, and any law that would counter that right should be discarded as decidedly undemocratic and as curtailing our basic freedom as spiritual beings."

[folias]

some light entertainment for ya'all

 

Just recorded a couple of days ago...

Julian.

[Chiral]

I agree with a lot of what you say...but playing the game is a part of staying active and free at the moment.

It's no good being behind bars for 20 years..no one can hear you there and its a waste of a great chunk of your life.

I bet you wouldn't be prepared to go to jail for a length time to prove your point.."would you".

Stand up for beliefs...but don't get to the point where you will be silenced by the MAN and eating 3 square meals dished out by another inmate.

I shouldn't have got involved here..but I can't help myself sometimes..I have to just have my say..as I'm not scared to voice my opinions. I have been on many demo's and run from the police as they swung their batons at me..many many times, but I'm still here and am educating myself constantly with the laws of the GAME.

H.

[_e_]

lolz all round...

wish i was on a pc where i could hear the bea song (thats not a bee!)

psst anyone follwoing this thread should also read ayahuasca.com

and just for the wreck-chord Truth movement australia

dailygrail - DMT and magick!

Edited January 4, 2009 by _e_

[reptyle]

There is definately an overriding focus on the darkness and how to participate in its undoing the works of progress to be found what is quite obviously a successful human species.

The divine unfolding of the cyclic universe has placed us in perfect harmony for the future of our evolution, With strata existing at level from illiteracy through to omniscience.

It is not about finding anger enough to react, simply to find wisdom to exemplify the truth of devotion and sincerely striving for change through self sacrifice.

Understanding the essence of communicating in the light, without personalisations, with empathy and for Gods own eye to percieve is the path to rewritting the code which your mind replicates with self referential annotations. This process of purification through expression is "THE WAY". Plants and minerals can assist in amplifying the memory based integration of formed patterns and directly bring enjoyment to those living in the light.

Healing is a function of rearranging elements of association so as to transform what once was into what will be. It can be learned.

The Greater the experiential change in state the greater the potential energy build up. Directing this energy towards pattern building, whereby what you desire automatically springs forth from you is the essence of tantric practice.

Avalokitesvara and Manjushri would be the light bodies you might find interesting to work with. Simply offer your self to them, become absorbed by them and as part of their body allow yourself to become infused with their universal being. By aligning yourself with such beings over time, greater and greater similarities begin to emerge until your own light body is born of the loving intercourse between your old self and your eternal deity self.

In this system plants or amrita are often used to INITIATE a devotee into the SECRETS of the all powerful universe. Such an advanced and old system surely understand the need to be highly specific when choosing students with which to achieve the maximum demonstrable results in favour of the practice. Many monks arent even aware of the origins of the symbols they use and how they relate to the psychedelic spectrum.

Search for Marpa the tr4anslator and read some of his stories about his work with Nagarjuna on the amrita.

Hope your smiling and I've got a petition you might wanna sign or just burn or dance in a circle around a fire with 4 lovely witches chanting the praises of the world devised specifically as the music you just love to hear a second time. or you could think more about all the injustice thats been done in the world and sponsor a child or you could eat a sock and hope that someone feels merciful and sends you to a realm where there are no feet and people wobble around or write a childrens story so that in 10 years all the kids know who Ka Pibo is and how he learned to live inside the plants. the list goes on...personally i believe everyone is just waiting.

bless

[folias]

It's no good being behind bars for 20 years..no one can hear you there and its a waste of a great chunk of your life.

Last time I came into Australia... customs took away some papers to photocopy.

The customs lady taking back the papers sometime later looked a little freaked out... the papers were basically fiction, misleading information, written so that someone who was reading them, could understand perhaps half of what was written.

On the top of the papers, loose, was a little rectangular note, very well worn, well used, torn from a very small notebook.

In my handwriting, this note read, "An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law."

- Martin Luther King, Jr.

Julian.

[apothecary]

Why don't you just come out and say it Julian, what you call "valid non-violent protest" the rest of us call selling drugs for a profit, and would be a lot happier to accept your position of spiritual mandate if you weren't asking for more than a few "millimetres of fingernail" for every dose. Vice versa, most of us probably would have no problems with the selling if you would stop pretending like you are gifting manna from the heavens to the poor unwashed and ignorant masses.

You always accuse anyone who disagrees with you or your actions of projecting their shit on you. Like you are some pure white innocence of a canvas. Please explain for us all at home, what am I projecting onto you exactly?

This has nothing to do with anyone elses hateful truth campaigns, although I seem to recall one time you spoke to that person you accused someone else of running a hateful truth campaign against you. Funny how when confronted directly you shifted the blame from the person you now blame to someone else...and now the person you now blame holds a permanent grudge against the someone else. No casualties though, right?

This has nothing to do with elitism or secrecy, in fact I would have been very happy for you to distribute information, but that is hardly profitable, is it?

Edited January 4, 2009 by Sina